Maroon

[Upinthe]

Maroon 1UU
Instant

Target player loses control of target creature. (It stays in play, but nobody controls it.)

Maroon 1UU
Instant

Target player loses control of target creature. (It stays in play, but nobody controls it.) Treat that creature as though it were controlled by a player who didn't have any other cards in the game and skipped all of his or her turns.

This probably won't work, but i liked the idea of a neutral creature that nobody controls that also can have an effect on gameplay. Peacekeeper anyone?

[asmoranomardicodais]

so, how would this work? It seems to me that your just removing the creature from the game, since it can't do anything if no one controls it. Also, if no one controls it, it would never untap. It just doesn't seem to me to have your desired effect.

[Matt]

Well the difference between this and a RFG creature is apparant on creatures with static abilities. A Silent Arbiter, for example, would still have a large effect. But I don't think the rules can handle an uncontrolled creature.

[JAG]

Your reminder text also ignores the possibility of you playing this on a creature with a Treachery from each player on it.  If my opponent loses control of a creature he stole from me, it reverts to my control by default.  By your reminder text, that would not be true. 

For this card to work, a number of questions like this must have answers:

Suppose I play Confiscate on my creature that my opponent Bribery'd.  He plays Maroon on that creature.  Does the Bribery effect return the creature to my opponent's control?  If not, why not?

That's not even touching on the issue of whether or not the rules can handle a creature that has no controller.

-JM

[Anusien]

How this functionally different from Arrest?

[Norm4eva]

Well for starters, you can use it on your own creature to avoid saccing it to Diabolic Edict.  Though I'm not sure why you'd do that, unless it was setting rules like the aforementioned Arbiter.
The problem here is that, barring unusual circumstances, this is basically a blue Swords to Plowshares.  This basically trumps all bounce spells in that the creature is not returned to owner's hand.
Also, what should happen if Platinum Angel gets Maroon'd?

[dandan]

From a flavour point of view, there should be the possibility of getting rescued. This would also help balance this 'Blue removal spell'.

How about having to pay three times the CMC of the creature and you get it back once you have paid? The mana could be paid over several turns but only whenever you could play a sorcery (In gameplay terms, put X Maroon counters on the creature equal to 3 x CMC, anyone can remove a counter by paying 1 anytime they could play a Sorcery)

FE had a card a bit like that.

[Anusien]

That is really really clumsy, and I'm not a fan of long-term counters of one type sitting on a creature (who is also very likely to have +1/+1 counters).  In most cases, you could just run another creature to avoid Edict or whatever.  I really don't like this, but you might be able to make an Oubliette-style card with the flavor.  How is a Silent Arbiter going to work, Marooned on a desert island, anyway?

[Ephraim]

The flavour is solid, but I think that the niche this card occupies is too small for an idea this complicated to really be printable. It took me a while to think of where I had seen this before, but this reminds me a lot of Oubliette.

[Jacob Orlove]

That current wording is awful.

[Upinthe]

How about this?

Maroon 1UU
Enchantment

When Maroon comes into play, remove target creature from the game. Maroon has the static abilities of that creature.
When Maroon leaves play, return that creature to play under its owner's control.

[Matt]

So if you Maroon a Maro, it's an enchamtnet, not a creature, but if it becomes a creature, it will have p/t equal to the number of cards in your hand?

Uh, no. "Static abilities" encompasses way too many things. There is no decent way to word this.

[Godder]

How about something like:

When Maroon comes into play, remove target creature from the game.
When Maroon leaves play, return that creature to play under its owner's control.

[Ephraim]

How about something like:

When Maroon comes into play, remove target creature from the game.
When Maroon leaves play, return that creature to play under its owner's control.

I think that defeats the initial purpose of the card. The creature is supposed to remain in play, but be nobody's burden or responsibility.

[Upinthe]

So if you Maroon a Maro, it's an enchamtnet, not a creature, but if it becomes a creature, it will have p/t equal to the number of cards in your hand?

Uh, no. "Static abilities" encompasses way too many things. There is no decent way to word this.

What's wrong with that scenario?

[Norm4eva]

The card itself, I think, gets full marks for ingenuity.  It's exploring a contingency that hasn't really been explored; a rogue creature who isn't like so many Red creatures, switching sides based on life totals/cards in hand/artifacts in play, etc... the idea of a card truly belonging to nobody is one that deserves exploration.
Sadly, that in mind, it's also letting Blue do something that really isn't in color for it do be doing.  While the concept is solid and very Blue, the execution becomes more reminiscient of White.  At its heart it's a remove-from-game effect, stepping on the toes of Parallax Wave and Astral Slide.
Additionally there will be odd rules conflicts that will no doubt occur.  What happens when an ability triggers on the Maroon'd creature?  Example, Bonethorn Valesk's ability needs a target.  If that God-awful card gets Maroon'd, no player can choose a target for its ability.  Who gets the mana from Su-Chi, or who distributes Shambling Swarm's -1/-1 counters?  These are mandatory game actions.  This card's another Mindslaver, it almost needs its own section in the Comp Rules; "Handling Creatures with No Controller".

[dandan]

This is somewhat lateral but couldn't Maroon be an Aura that changes the creature into an Island?

That way the controller at least gets a land, you get wacky things to do with Islandwalk and Islandhome, Titans, and it would allow a rescue from Enchantment destruction or bounce.

Of course some might wonder at a Flying Trampling Island or an Island with Maro ability, but as only creatures can fight that shouldn't be a huge issue.

Is making the creaure an Island instead of taking the creature to an Island rather a Mohammed/Mountain solution?

This could almost be unglued-esque and printed in Maroon rather than Blue as I keep imagining it that way whenever I read the name!!!

[asmoranomardicodais]

I like Dandan's suggestion a lot (for once, we agree). Turning the creature into an island is an excellent way to flavourfully portray maroon.

[Anusien]

Maroon - 3UU
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
Enchant land
Maroon can only target a creature.
Enchanted creature is an Island instead of a creature.

[Jacob Orlove]

I'm amused because that wording works.

[Anusien]

Yeah, I was wracking my brain trying to figure out if I neede some clause that it kept relevant abilities, but I don't think I do.  I don't like the "can only target creatures" wording because it seems very crufty, and also lets you Replenish it onto a manland to turn it into a Island.  I think I'm going to amend it slightly:

Maroon - 3UU
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
Enchant Island
Maroon can only target a creature.
Enchanted creature is an Island instead of a creature.

[Matt]

Holy crap.

[dandan]

Suddenly the phrase 'No man is an island' becomes false.

[Ephraim]

Suddenly the phrase 'No man is an island' becomes false.

And I think we've found our flavour text:

This man is an island.

[Anusien]

Slight rules tweak, because multiple instances of Enchant are appearantly additive.  Here's v2.2
Maroon - 3UU
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature or Island
Maroon can only target a creature.
Enchanted creature is an Island instead of a creature.

Current Version
Maroon - 1UU
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature or Island
Maroon can only target a creature.
Enchanted creature is an Island instead of a creature.
Nonman activated abilities of enchanted permanant can't be played.[/B]

[asmoranomardicodais]

I love this card. It should cost four though, instead of five.

Also if it is an island, by definition, does itlose its abilities, or can it still tap for green if its a llany? I think we want the latter.

[dandan]

Why has the proposed casting cost gone up? This started at a rather agressive 3cc Instant and now I see a 5cc Enchantment. Surely if Control Magic costs 4 (and most Control Magic clones cost 4 too, with some 3 and 5cc versions too), this should cost 3 (1UU). Remember that making it an Island gives it an ability (tapping for mana), the creature stays in play so if the Enchantment gets removed it can attack/block straight away and it retains its abilities (as we haven't specified that it doesn't). That seems worth a discount of 1 mana compared to Control Magic.
Look at recent cards Domineer, Frozen Solid and Threads of Disloyalty for examples of what Blue gets for 1UU.

[Anusien]

Because I'm a moron.  I could see this going to 2UU (Control Magic has been deprecated in favor of Confiscate, Treachery and Threads).

By the way, should activated abilities still work?

[dandan]

Upinthe originally had this as a 1UU Instant and nobody questioned the CC. I suggested we make it an Enchantment (weaker than an Instant) and an Island effect (again weaker as the controller still gets something) so 4cc seems steep. I agree the benchmark has moved from Control Magic but is this stronger than 3cc spells Domineer, Threads of Disloyalty and Frozen Solid?

Flavour wise I don't think activated abilities should work. Islands don't ping. I have no problem with an Island having other efects as we could say that whilst the creature lives it has those effects (WOrb, Kismet, etc), and those effects would still work if the creature changed controller so should still work if the creature were 'between controller'. A few effects are fairly illogical but as there is technically a controller I dopn't think there are rules problems. Turning off activated abilities is reasonable if we consider that the creature is not in a position to do the bidding of its controller.

[asmoranomardicodais]

But if you get rid of activated abilites, this feels almost like a blue dark banishing, which is certainly too powerful, and should be costed at 4cc. Besides, I feel that it adds a lot of flavor to the card and makes it a neater card altogether if you suddenly get an island that can:

Tap to destroy lands (Demonic Horders)
Pay 7W to gain five life (starlight invoker)
An effectively tropical island (Llanowar elves)
Can tap and sacrifice itselfto counter a spell (Daring Apprentice)

Giving it the activated abilities makes this a rememberable card, not just some random blue tech.