[DECK] GWS-style Salvager Oath

[TheStu]

Ever since Mat Endress's performance at worlds, I've been infatuated with the GWS way of playing Oath. I am akin to them in thinking that oath should be played as a straight-up combo deck as opposed to being a sub-par control deck. The numbers prove that this approach is the better one, since before Mat's 3rd place finish at worlds, nobody had landed a top 8 at a major event with Oath since the Meandeck boys brought the deck back with the release of CHK.

I'm also a huge fan of the salvager combo as well, and while not posting as many strong finishes as pure Oath, i feel that it is still viable, and plugging it into the excellent GWS oath skeleton seemed like a natural fit.

Without furter ado, the list. (Oddball choices bolded for clarity)

//LAND
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
2 City of Brass
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
1 Island
1 Tundra

//DORK
1 Auriok Salvagers

//SPELLS
6 LoMoxen
1 LED
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Balance
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Oath of Druids
4 Duress
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Impulse
3 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Seal of Cleansing
2 Pyrite Spellbomb

//SIDEBOARD
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Tinker
1 Rushing River
1 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Oxidize
2 Choke
2 Phyrexian Furnace
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Spirit of the Night


Why the extra white cards? Seal of Cleansing is in there to fight problem cards like Chalice 0 and Null Rod, and Enlightened Tutor does double duty as a 2nd answer to the aforementioned problem cards as well, not to mention finding your Oath, your combo pieces and your Chokes out of the sideboard. I maindecked the B-Bomb as personal preference, as it has saved my ass numerous times.

This was going to be my Waterbury deck, but unfortunately car troubles have prevented me and the rest of the North Bay boys from making it this time around.

Anyways, discuss.

[M.Solymossy]

meh, i don't honestly think endress oath is very effective if you switch it to salvagers.
honestly, the original meandeck oath list is best for that.

[TheStu]

meh, i don't honestly think endress oath is very effective if you switch it to salvagers.
honestly, the original meandeck oath list is best for that.

Yeah, but that's been done to death. I figured I'd try it with the GWS skeleton, and so far its worked very well for me. The draw engine is excellent for the Salvager plan and the reason why should be obvious.

[Sean Ryan]

@ The Stu,

You definitly want an engineered explosives as it serves the same function as Seal of cleansing but is more versatile and recurable with Salvagers.  Also, You want something to stop Chalice at 2.

I would also bring Tinker/Collossus MD.  Having multiple routes to victory is good.  Colossus gets around the hate that stops the Salvager kill and sometimes you get those stupid 1st turn Tinkers with back up that win the game.

I was testing the GWS OAth awhile ago and found that I often wished my Chalices were something else if not going first on the play.  So, I switched them for a combination of T. Crypt, E.E., and 2 P. Needle.  It helped shore up some weaknesses but left me more vulnerable to others.  Just something to thinkn about.

Another thing to consider is that Suppression Field is coming and GWS Oath with the Flyers can abuse it while Salvagers cannot.

In the Seattle meta a unique hybrid of OAth/Gifts has emergered over the last couple of months with different players taking slightly different angles.  Randy Buehler won the last tourny with one of these builds that soley used Tinker colossus and a B. Wish for Tendrils as his kill.  While other players have been using such things as Animate Dead/Dance of Dead in a Gifts pile to get Salvager.  These builds require Drain to fuel Gifts, but its something to think about.

Sean

[Moxlotus]

I honestly think the Chalices are needed.  The card is simply amazing.  I want it in my hand every single game.  The deck follows the theory of "Everything is a Time Walk" very closely.  Duress, wastes, FoW, and Chalice all effectively take a turn's worth of resources from your opponent, while BS and Impulse give you 3 or 4 turns worth of card selection.

We talked about the Salvagers kill, but it's too vulnerable I think.  Not only do you have to cut Chalice, but you have to replace it with crappy cards like spellbombs.  And, maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how this can deal with Stax.  Our original list has too many problems with Spheres and Chalices from Stax in the first place, I don't see how this stands a chance.  If the meta doesn't have much Stax, go for it--but if it does, I'd stay away from Salvagers.

Sorry, but I don't see how the Salvagers kill helps the deck.  It looks like it makes the bad matchups worse, and doesn't strengthen the even matchups much-if at all.

Ground Seals are another green enchantment that wins the game against CS.  It's way better than Furnace. 

Also, Field sucks ass.  Shut down your fetches and wastes=absolute shit.

1 Swamp

I hope that was a typo.

I am akin to them in thinking that oath should be played as a aggro-control deck as opposed to being a sub-par control deck. 

Fixed that for you.

Don't forget to add Imperial Seal once it becomes legal!!!

[Methuselahn]

We talked about the Salvagers kill, but it's too vulnerable I think.  Not only do you have to cut Chalice, but you have to replace it with crappy cards like spellbombs.  And, maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how this can deal with Stax. 

Strange.  Even though Stax is pretty much a powerhouse versus everything, I always assumed that Oath decks had decent game against them, relatively speaking.  Oh well.

Spellbombs are not necessary.  Just Recoup into a Tendrils after recasting Lotus, alot.  This way, you only have to worry about chalice for 0 and not chalice for 0 and 1. *Points to the 4 oxidize in the side* Oh, it also gets around Matrix, Suppression Field, etc.

[AmbivalentDuck]

We talked about the Salvagers kill, but it's too vulnerable I think.  Not only do you have to cut Chalice, but you have to replace it with crappy cards like spellbombs.  And, maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how this can deal with Stax. 

Strange.  Even though Stax is pretty much a powerhouse versus everything, I always assumed that Oath decks had decent game against them, relatively speaking.  Oh well.

Spellbombs are not necessary.  Just Recoup into a Tendrils after recasting Lotus, alot.  This way, you only have to worry about chalice for 0 and not chalice for 0 and 1. *Points to the 4 oxidize in the side* Oh, it also gets around Matrix, Suppression Field, etc.

Recoup+Tendrils requires TWO cards in the graveyard.  2>1, therefore you have a smaller chance of seeing both off your Oath.  On the other hand, with two Spellbombs you have a decent chance of seeing at least 1.

Though I really think you need more artifact kill.  Maybe even maindeck Rack and Ruin/Oxidize?

[Methuselahn]

Recoup+Tendrils requires TWO cards in the graveyard.  2>1, therefore you have a smaller chance of seeing both off your Oath.  On the other hand, with two Spellbombs you have a decent chance of seeing at least 1.

2>1?  How did I miss that?    The thing is, Recoup and Burning Wish(Tendrils) both have better alternate uses than being a final combo piece that doesn't die to Null Rod or Chalice for 1.

Let's take a look at all the ways this deck has to tutor/search for the setup.
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
3 Impulse
3 Thirst for Knowledge
That's a fair amount.  Really now, do you want to be playing with dirty Spellbombs or do you want an elegant Tendrils kill?  I'm not saying that you could simply switch out the Pyrites for the two cards without tweaking the rest of the maindeck, but simply that Spellbombs are not necessary.

Though I really think you need more artifact kill.  Maybe even maindeck Rack and Ruin/Oxidize?

I'll agree to that, Chalice removal in the form of Seal is dangerous as many a stax player will drop Chalice for 2 near automatically because of Oath is 2cc, Mana Drain is 2cc, and most of their spells aren't 2cc

[AmbivalentDuck]

You already lose to Null Rod and Chalice for 0.  Tendrils and Recoup are both dead when drawn.  The spellbomb cycles AND KILLS WELDERS, Meddling Magi, etc.  Why add a way to lose to Mana Drain or Force? 

[Methuselahn]

You already lose to Null Rod and Chalice for 0.  Tendrils and Recoup are both dead when drawn.  The spellbomb cycles AND KILLS WELDERS, Meddling Magi, etc.  Why add a way to lose to Mana Drain or Force? 

You already lose to Pithing Needle and Chalice for 1 besides Chalice for 0 and Null Rod.  I only fear the occasional Uba Stax deck playing Null Rod against me because I'm just not seeing alot of Rod-fish decks dominating like they once were, especially versus Oath decks.   I probably wouldn't play just the Salvagers, so therefore, I wouldn't die to Null Rod.

Doesn't this deck match Mana Drain and Force with Duress, Force, and turn 1 Oath?

I don't see how Tendrils and Recoup are dead draws.  First, Tendrils would be Burning Wish, a tutor, and Recoup lets you replay 2 spells.  2>1.

[AmbivalentDuck]

The key is that the spellbomb win can't be killed with a single Mana Drain, Tendrils can (on the Burning Wish or Recoup).

[Methuselahn]

The key is that the tendrils win can't be killed with a single Pithing Needle, Spellbomb can.

Personally, I worry more about permanent, proactive based hate against the salvager combo than Mana Drain, considering I'm running protection that stops hate while on the stack or before it gets there with the whole 4x Duress, 4x Force thing.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Pithing Needle naming Salvagers.

[Methuselahn]

Ok, you got me there, Needle stops Salvagers.  I guess it just hoses more targets in the Pyrite version then. 

I'll just agree to disagree because my experience with Salvagers is that Tendrils is much more elegant and resilient with the deck that I had tested recently.

[TheStu]

@ everyone fearing needle, chalice and rod

The deck runs 1 E-Tutor and 1 Seal of Cleansing. Is that not enough to handle the hosers? Should I run more artifact kill than that?

[semifly]

I would also bring Tinker/Collossus MD.  Having multiple routes to victory is good.  Colossus gets around the hate that stops the Salvager kill and sometimes you get those stupid 1st turn Tinkers with back up that win the game.

Sean

Agreed - Oath is more consistent with backup 'phaty support. 

[islanderboi10]

Just a quick question, why doesn't Oath just run the 5 color Manabase(4 City of Brass, 4 Gemstone Mine, Etc.)?? I mean right now, you only run a few dual lands and basics, why not just go all out?

[nataz]

Brainstorm + fetch is the bestest

[Moxlotus]

Just a quick question, why doesn't Oath just run the 5 color Manabase(4 City of Brass, 4 Gemstone Mine, Etc.)?? I mean right now, you only run a few dual lands and basics, why not just go all out?

So you don't get absolutely boned by cruci-waste.  You have a combination of 6 islands/fetchlands, this is decent protection against it.  Without this, you cannot win the Stax match.

Cities allow you to play Choke-->Mana Drain decks
basics allow you to not lose to waste-->Stax
It's a balance.

Plus the obvious Brainstorm+fetch.

[TheStu]

Status Update:

-1 Seal of Cleansing
+1 Oxidize

-1 Duress
+1 Auriok Salvagers

I decided ultimately to run the 2nd salvagers, since Swords is rampant right now.

[Moxlotus]

Could you please explain the Swamp?

[TheStu]

Could you please explain the Swamp?

Typo. I counted 61 cards in the deck and the swamp looked weird to me too. Just gonna edit that  now.

[NWI Team_Zilla]

//LAND
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
2 City of Brass
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
1 Island
1 Tundra

//DORK..s
1 Auriok Salvagers
1 Darksteel Colossus

//SPELLS
6 lo Moxen (yea your right 6)
1 LED
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Balance
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Oath of Druids
4 Duress
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Tinker
3 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Æther Spellbomb
2 Pyrite Spellbomb

//SIDEBOARD
1 Phyrexian Furnace
3 Ground Seal
1 Gaea's Blessing
1 Rushing River
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Oxidize
3 Choke
1 Verdant Force ( just smile and read my second signiture...
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Pristine Angel

So yea, I changed it alot, but I hope it was for the best, here are my explanations:
-Tinker/CColossus  I too believe that a back up plan MD is a good idea and the fact that you can grab a random 1st turn win from it is somewhat reassuring.

-Engineered Explosives:  Yea they are ddefinitelybetter than Seal of Cleansing any day of the week for all the reasons others have posted.

-Æther Spellbomb:  To me it's just another silver bullet that you may need to get rid of Platinum Angel or Meddling Magi before you win.

Sideboard:
-Ground Seal:  Better than Phyrexian Furnace if you swswitcho traditional Oath post-board.

-Phyrexian Furnace:  I left the one in if I want to keep Salvagers in post-board; though depending on your likely-hood to transition post-board I would probably switch them out with Ground Seals/take them out entirely.

-Gaea's Blessing:  Yea, if your going to transition post board I would put that in as well.  Ohh and if you even run into an old-school Dragon deck that relies on Ambassador Laquatus for the win I suppose you can use it there too.

-3 Choke:  You sisaidn you opening that you wanted to make Oath more like a combo deck, we as far as sideboarding is concerned, this is one of the best hosers available for a combo-oath build.

-Verdant Force:  It is a personal prpreference guess, but I allways love to have this against stax and occasionally against heavy aggro decks.

-Pristine:  Once again my preference, but Pristine is a more easily protected creature than SpSpiritf the Night, and if I wanted haste I would just put in Akroma.

I think that just about sums up my changes/choices.  I really want to add the 4th TfK in now that DSC is in the main, but that's doable if you cut Æther Spellbomb or something.  I hope I was helpful, good luck with the deck.

[the boogie man]

I have a question: is it viable to run choke if you run 6 islands, 1 of which is a trop? this is purely a question: its not loaded. what would you say the maximum islands you can reliably run?

[AmbivalentDuck]

Why no Darkblast?  If you fail on an Oath, it lets you mill three deeper. Otherwise, it lets you protect the Colossus from Welders.  I'm thinking it's an auto-include.  Probably 2. 

Phyrexian Furnace is worthless as a one-of.  Run at least three or don't run it. 

Verdant Force?  Just win already.  Strictly worse than Razia, or SotN.

And thats 7 SoLoMoxen, not 6.

[TheStu]

Why no Darkblast?  If you fail on an Oath, it lets you mill three deeper. Otherwise, it lets you protect the Colossus from Welders.  I'm thinking it's an auto-include.  Probably 2. 

Phyrexian Furnace is worthless as a one-of.  Run at least three or don't run it. 

Verdant Force?  Just win already.  Strictly worse than Razia, or SotN.

And thats 7 SoLoMoxen, not 6.

I agree on the darkblast.

And you misread my list, i put 6 LoMoxen, implying that I'm not running sol ring

[AmbivalentDuck]

I was commenting on NWI's list.  He did make that error.

[Moxlotus]

I would replace the blue bounce spells with Oxidize 3 and 4.  Oxidizes are too good not to play 4 of.  We used the blue bounce spells because we couldn't play with 6 Oxidizes.

[fromm2020]

dude i love this deck, but you need to change ur build, i won my first mox with this and the best salvager targets are 3 phyrexian furnace, 2 pyrite, 1 xplosives, beyond that the rest is just mono blue oath until the turn you win