Salvager-Gifts (or: cutting the red crap from Gifts)

[Gabethebabe]

As a savage netdecker I rarely come up with innovating ideas. As a daddy of two little ones I also don´t really have the time to spend on creating ideas. But recently in an unusual peak of brain activity I thought that Auriok Salvagers might be good in Gifts decks. I thought of this Gifts pile:

Yawgmoth´s Will
Auriok Salvagers
Black Lotus
Cunning Wish

With Shallow Grave accessible from the sideboard, my opponent could not deny me infinite mana. Jee, I was totally impressed by myself and shared this idea with a couple of other members, to see if we could work out a good deck. A certain French amphibia tempered my enthusiasm by linking me to this thread.
Jee, I came up with an idea that was already explored almost a year ago. How very impressive. That was a severe blow for my ego. Reading the article and looking the decklist I couldn´t help but finding it horribly flawed. How the hell can this deck not include cards like Tinker, Colossus, Mana Vault and Crypt? Why would you butcher your mana base for Regrowth, that can´t even help you resolve Yawgmoth´s Will?

I still thought the idea was good, but I had to come up with a better deck than this. New Gifts decks have been developed that could embrace the white concept and Brassmans list with its cheap artifacts stands out a mile, because if its excellent synergy with Auriok Salvagers.
After discussing a little with MaxxMatt, who looked at the deck idea with healthy criticism, I came up with this decklist:

Salvagers-Gifts
Creatures (2)
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Auriok Salvagers

Spells (34)
1 Balance

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Brainstorm
3 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Gifts Ungiven
3 Cunning Wish
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Merchant Scroll

1 Yawgmoth´s Will
1 Demonic Tutor

1 Aether Spellbomb
2 Phyrexian Furnace
1 Pithing Needle

Mana (24)
1 Black Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Lotus Petal
3 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
3 Island
1 Plains
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy

SB
3 Sacred Ground
2 Disenchant
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Brain Freeze
1 Misdirection
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Rebuild
1 Gifts Ungiven
2 Duress
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Shallow Grave

Some comments on the card choices:
Balance. No reason not to play the best life saviour in magic if it is on-color. You´re running 14 cheap artifacts, so after resolving balance you should really have the advantage.
Cunning Wish. Part of your combo, but also your toolbox. It allows you to run no further “answers� in your deck, like Echoing Truth, Rebuild, Engineered Explosives and the like. Unlike Burning Wish you can run multiples, so don´t worry if you have to pay FoW removing a Wish or if you have to get an answer from your SB to get out of a tight spot.

“The little artifacts�: Here there is room for experiments. I´d recommend not going below 3 artifacts that allow your combo. I´ve currently included a Pithing Needle as well, but you could play another Furnace, Top, Explosives or even a 25th mana source over it.

Plains. Long time ago I played a Plains in Vintage. White mana is required for your combo and since you´ll somethimes spread out your combo over two turns by first dropping Salvagers, you´d like your white source to be stable. If you´re physically unable to run Plains in a T1 deck, feel free to play things like LoA or Darksteel Citadel over it. Any deck can get away with one non-blue source. Pick yours.

So what are the advantages of this deck over Brassman? The major advantage: it runs one dead card (Colossus) in stead of four. You all know what it feels like to have Burning Wish, Recoup or Charbelcher in your opening hand. Sure, later they may come in handy, but to survive the early game I´m reckon you´d prefer something else. Less dead cards means more stability, less mulligans.

Another advantage is that you don´t need a tremendous mana investment to start your combo and you can spread it out over several turns. You can drop a Salvagers and combo out next turn. Salvagers is a rather robust creature with its 4 toughness, out of the range of the most frequently played damage spells.

Recently white was introduced as a splash for Sacred Ground, excellent tech against MW.dec. With white being your second colour, this card will be more effective.

So what is the game plan? Nothing new. Keep yourself alive countering stuff, building up mana until you´re ready to do your thing. That thing can be an early colossus, a Gifts for your combo parts or a big Yawgmoth´s Will followed by a Brain Freeze. This deck is not really different from other Gifts deck, read Toad´s article and other Gifts threads and you should know what there is to know.

It is not all gold that shines, surely this deck has some disadvantages over the traditional “red� Gifts builds. The biggest one is that Auriok Salvagers is a creature. That means that it is susceptible to a range of removal spells, most prominently Swords and all kinds of bounce. Also it will mean that it is rather difficult to find in your deck. You can´t Mystical or Tinker for it. And last but not least: a couple of commonly played cards shut off your combo: Pithing Needle, Chalice, Null Rod to name a few. Another loss is found in the sideboard: Red Elemental Blast and Rack & Ruin. That hurts. Sacred Ground, Disenchant and Duress are ‘decent’ replacements, though.

So is this deck better than traditional Gifts with red? I will not answer that question, because I think it is a metagame thing. If your meta is bristling with control decks (CS), don´t play this deck, because I think you have slightly worsened your Slaver matchup. In my (non-proxy) meta this deck is very good. More on that later.

White gives you more stability, but less brokenness. This deck can not force a Yawgmoth´s Will through Gifts (but it has more ways to find Will). It can not cast Tinker for Colossus and then triple Walk. You can have like 10 pages of discussion on this and I don´t want to get myself into it. Just look the list and if you like it, try it. The fact that nobody has come up with this deck, is maybe an indication that it was tried and rejected. Or maybe we all just forgot about Salvagers.

Read Toad´s if you haven´t done it yet, it covers things I haven´t. Read the thread if you want, but I can tell you the discussion that followed was rather worthless. I hope we can  make one that is more eventful.

I´ll finish with my tourny report (sixty-something players), played yesterday.

Round 1. Sui with white splash.
I won the die roll. In the first game I start with Balancing away 3 of his cards and forcing a Ritual ==> Negator. This bought me enough time to draw cards, resolve tinker and counter a swords.
In the next game I drew lotsa accelaration, I wished for Gifts, Balancced 3 cards away (again) and Gifted for the standard stack.. Since I had sided out a Wish and he gave me Lotus and Wish, I had to Wish for Shallow Grave and draw my deck until I had Colossus and quadruple counter backup. 2-0

Round 2. FC Joblins
I won the die roll and made my cool play of the day: I said “go�. He said “What?�. I said “Go�. He shrugged, drew a card and played Mountain, Lackey. I drew a card and played Tundra, Jet, Crypt, Spellbomb, Furnace, Balance. Two turns later I resolved Gifts and one turn later I aimed an Ancestral at him.
In the second game I had a second turn Tinker for Colossus, counter an Artefact Mutation and that was that.
2-0 (4-0).

Comment: this is why this deck is better than CS in my meta. I played CS actually the last tournament, getting me a T8, but I had some intense games against horrible matchups like RG beats with some narrow escapes. This deck cuts through those decks as a knife through butter. Balance ownz.

Round 3. Rectal Agony.
I won the die roll (the last one of the day) and played Land, Furnace *GRIN*. I don´t remember much of this game, but Furnace just destroys him, but I remember I had a mana filled hand and he was mana light and I resolved Balance with 0 cards in hand and saw two moxes and a Bargain go to the graveyard with unconcealed pleasure. Some turns later I resolve Will and Colossus finished this beating.
In the second game I mulliganed to 6, resolved turn 1 Duress, just to see that he had a second turn Rector with therapy and I couldn´t stop him, so I conceded there and then.
The third game was the most intensive. I drew Sea, Duress, Ancestral, Vamp, FoW, Gifts and Vault. First turn Duress. He started thinking and thinking and finally FoW-ed, pitching Rushing River. I thought about FoW-ing back, but decided not to. He drew, played a fetchland and asked for a pen to start making some notes. He Brainstormed and played Lotus. Certainly not, sir. I FoW-ed, pitching Gifts. In my next turn I topdeck Lotus! I played Lotus, sacced for Black. Vamp for Duress, play Ancestral and Duress (I smelled a Will in his hand). It turned out he had mana and a Demonic Tuto,r so I took the Tutor. Mana Vault ended the turn. He played two turns, draw-go and I resolved Will, found Tinker and Colossus finished him off again. 2-1 (6-1).

Fourth round: Oath.
He mulliganed to 6, didn´t see his mana base developing and when he was at two mana and I had six, I played Gifts with Drain and FoW backup. He leaked, I Drained and that was that. I got the 4 combo pieces and the turn after I drew my deck, dropped two Furnaces, Wished for Brain Freeze, played it, removed his Blessing and Ancestralled him to death.
In the second game I don´t have any mana in the first two hands so I go to 5. I have actually a good hand with a Land, Mox, Sol Ring and Ancestral, but the Ancestral gets FoW-ed and when he intuitions for 3 Orchards I know I´m dead. Two turns later Spirit of the Night turns up and we´re on to game 3.
In game 3 I have a first turn Gifts off a Crypt and Mox. I get FoF, Gifts, Thirst and Scroll. He gives me the 4 mana instants. He drops just a land and says go. I FoF into Lotus so I also resolve Gifts in that turn. The next turn Will ends the game. 2-1 (8-2).

Fifth round: against Brassman Gifts (heh).
He starts with a fetch, I start with a fetch and a petal. He breaks the fetch EOT and Mysticals for Tinker. In his turn he drops a land and a Mox and Tinkers. I drain without much hope and was totally surprised that it stood. WTF is this? Suicide-Tinker? I start drawing cards, but can´t counter his Will. But he can´t do anything better than Tinker though and his Colosuss enters play. I have no problems as I draw a card and play the Aether Spellbomb that I had up my sleeve. With his deck stripped out of his good cards, I start assembling my combo, see him Burning Wish for another Tinker for Belcher, but he is one mana short to go try his luck. He doesn´t get another turn.
Of the second game I don´t remember a lot, just that he forced through a rather early Tinker again for Colossus. I  resolved a mini-Will just to get a fetch, recur Walk and gain some time, I have Gifts and enough mana available but I topdeck Aether Spellbomb and my troubles are over. My Spellbomb resolves, a turn later Gifts as well and I win 2-0 (10-2) despite him playing 4 Tinkers against me.

The sixth and seventh round: ID.
T8: Sensei (Necropotenza on this board).
We play the control gamre and counter eachothers draw. Then I take the opportunity and force through Salvagers. He resolves Future Sight. Hm. He has two cards in hand and I topdeck Thirst. I smell Fow in his hand so I cycle a Spelbomb in stead of thirsting and find Gifts. I play it and he needs to have the FoW, which he does. Now things are running out of hand, because he gets to untap with Sight in play. He starts drawing cards like mad and gives me a turn with Tolarian untapped (three artifacts in play), Drain and Brainstorm in hand and Rushing River on top. I untap and draw… TOLARIAN ACADEMY. I play, he tries to draw mana of his Tolarian, but he can´t and I get a free thirst. I draw a land, a drain and .. Tinker. Ufffff. Tinker for Lotus and that´s it.

In the second game I have a rather good hand (Mox, needle, two lands, Tinker, Duress and some other card), but can´t stop his Ancestral in my upkeep. I Duress him and find Will, Demonic Tutor, Sol Ring, Helm, Top, FoF, Walk. He only has an Island in play and with my second turn Tinker in mind I decide to take his Sol Ring, I drop the Needling naming Top and hope he´ll stall out enough so I can kill him. Not. He drews Emerald, Walks, draws an Island and gives me the turn. I tinker, knowing it is safe, being happy that he hasn´t got a black source in play. Sure enough the next card in his deck is an underground Sea, so he drops Helm, Tutor for Lotus and finish me off with Tendrils.

In the third game I have Tinker in hand, I brainstorm it on top of my lib and give him the turn with FoW, Drain and Gifts as my main cards in hand. He Duresses me, thinks for a long time, asks me what I left on top of my library, I respond: Tinker. He grins and takes my Gifts. I untap and Tinker for Colossus. As expected from his earlier play, he kept a shady hand without countermagic, hoping that Duress would slow me down. Colossus enters the game and two turns later he extends the hand. 2-1 (12-3)

Semis. Against Control Slaver.
Not what  hoped for. He had just barely managed to win against Fish. In the first game he destroys me with a second turn Blood Moon that I didn´t see coming (I knew he played CS, but hadn´t scouted enough to know he played Blood Moon maindeck and had fetched an Underground in my first turn). I only have mountains to play and after a Thirst, an ancestral and a Shaman that I couldn´t stop, I decide that it is time to go on to game 2.
Of the second game I remember nothing. I just remember I drew really well and combo-ed him out.
In the third game I have a good hand with FoW, another blue card, Tinker, Furnace, Mox and lands. He playes land, mox, mox, Thirst that I counter. He ends with Tormod´s Crypt. Hmm. I played land, mox, Furnace and remove his Thirst. He untaps, Thirsts again, this time I can´t stop him and he pitches a Slaver. With Crypt on the table I don´t have many options so I just Tinker a Jet away for Colossus. Surely, he plays a Welder in his next turn. I untap and bash with Colossus, remove his Slaver and keep one mana open as Welder defense. He untaps and draws… Shaman. That just destroys me. He plays Shaman with enough mana to eat my Furnace. I have no other option and eat a Mox in his GY to gain a card and Colossus is welded out. With Shama, Welder and Crypt on the table I fight an uphill battle. My Gifts aren´t effective and after trying long and hard, I die to 1/1 beats. 1-2 (13-5).

Damn.

I was happy with my deck all day. It was freaking awesome. Now I have to find a way to improve the Slaver matchup (non-artefact win conditions like Decree, Exalteds, Mages, maybe, suggestions are welcome), or I just have to accept the fact that it is a bad matchup. The sideboard was golden, only I didn´t run into Stacks (thought there were 3 on the top 8) so I didn´t get to use the Sacred Grounds.

It was fun and all and I think we can see more of this archetype.

Cheers.

[M.Solymossy]

The deck is very unstable.  I played an ALMOST identical list at the Last Star City Chicago on July 30th of this year, and I went 0-2 drop losing  to Oath and a TNT deck that got titan's on the first two turns two of our three games.

Just play Gifts.

[Sean Ryan]

Kudos for thinking outside the box.

Recently in the local Seattle metagame we've had several players, including ex pro and R&D big wig Randy Buehler, successfully pilot various Oath/Gifts hybrids.  Obviously, they are different b/c. they pack OAth, but that could help with some of the inconsistencys.  Some players used the Salvager kill in combination with Dance of the Dead, Animate Dead tech for their Giftz piles.  Randy had tinker/Colossus & B. Wish - Tendrils.  That kill was also facilitated by running Krosan Reclaimation instead of Blessing to abuse Will.

What impressed me about these decks is how they could come at you form so many different angles.  In paticular the Salvager build.  It could go straight Oath into the Salvager combo, Tinker/Colossus out of the blue, or set up the winvia Giftz with multiple routes to victory off that plan. 

Something to think about.

Sean

[TheBrassMan]

specifically on the topic of 'dead' cards- 

A Salvagers with no Lotus is rarely better than a Belcher with no Severance, if for no other reason than the fact that Belcher can be pitched to Thirst.  Either card can have their moments on the table, but neither one would be close to worth running without their counterpart (two-land belcher aside, yeah yeah yeah)  You could argue that you can always rip the Lotus with a Salvagers on the board, but I assure you, ripping the Severance with Belcher on the board is a much better deal.

Further, and more importantly, you just can't call Burning Wish a 'dead' card, and ignore the fact that you're running 3 Cunning Wish.  Nevermind the fact that Burning Wish is cheaper, plenty of the cards you can get are just plain better than their Instant counterparts.  Pyroclam, Duress, Tendrils, Mind Twist and Deep Analysis are very strong cards, and the "sub-optimal" cards you can get, like Echoing Ruin and Imperial Seal, are still very comparable to what you'd nab with a Cunning. 

In a Gifts deck, I'd much rather be holding a Recoup early than an overcosted reactive spell.  Besides the incredible leverage it gives you when casting Gifts, early Recouped Time Walks or Duresses have won me plenty of games.

Now, I agree with you for the most part in that, Gifts decks tend to run a lot of situational cards, cards that can win games for you, but you don't necessarily want to draw them until you're ready to get them yourself.  Those strong situational cards are what make Brainstorm and Thirst so insanely good.  I know you're not opposed to running cards that can be totally useless in a matchup, but are situationally okay, because you're running 2 Phyrexian Furnaces, and an Aether Spellbomb

I'm not trying to say that Salvagers Gifts can't work, or that my list is the end-all.  But specifically talking about what cards are "dead" in either list, I don't think the Salvagers list posted is particularly strong in that area

[yespuhyren]

I agree with Brassman, and personally feel that THE BEST way to abuse salvagers would use intutions, and here is why

If you have lotus, go for

salvager
salvager
salvager

if you have salvager, go for

lotus/LED/WIN CARD

if you have salvager and lotus, go for

Force/Force/Force, or
Drain/Drain/Drain for protection

There are so many more ways to abuse intution in this deck instead of running gifts in my opinion.

Another EXTREMELY important card this deck should be running is Engineered Explosives, as no matter what chalice is at, you should be able to get around it but just running drain mana / colorless mana into it to change its CC. 

Glad to hear your thinking and innovating and not netdecking this time.  This is something our vintage community is lacking in severely right now, with a lot of netdecking going on.

Jason

[xrizzo]

If you have lotus, go for

salvager
salvager
salvager

I would intuition for:
Animate Dead
Dance of the Dead
Salvager

This gives you added flexibility to use animation effects on their creatures...  It depends on the build you are running of course...  Intuitions with thirsts is strong too...

[Gabethebabe]

The deck is very unstable.  I played an ALMOST identical list at the Last Star City Chicago on July 30th of this year, and I went 0-2 drop losing  to Oath and a TNT deck that got titan's on the first two turns two of our three games.
Just play Gifts.

What exactly were the differences between your and my list?
Going 0-2 can happen to any deck. This is T1. Doing so doesn´t imply that a deck is unstable (nor does making T4 imply that the deck is tier-X)

@Brassman
Thanks for your well-thought post.

specifically on the topic of 'dead' cards-
A Salvagers with no Lotus is rarely better than a Belcher with no Severance, if for no other reason than the fact that Belcher can be pitched to Thirst. Either card can have their moments on the table, but neither one would be close to worth running without their counterpart (two-land belcher aside, yeah yeah yeah) You could argue that you can always rip the Lotus with a Salvagers on the board, but I assure you, ripping the Severance with Belcher on the board is a much better deal.

True, Both Belcher and Salvagers on the table have their moments. As you see in my report I casted Salvagers only once without actually comboing out and the one card I could draw of its ability (at a steep price of 4) won me the game. Note that Salvagers on the table in the control match makes Lotus a truly excellent deal, because they have to counter it several times. With Belcher on the table, they can allow your Burning Wish and counter your Severance. Belcher can kill Welders, but it can´t block. Can we call it even?

Further, and more importantly, you just can't call Burning Wish a 'dead' card, and ignore the fact that you're running 3 Cunning Wish. Nevermind the fact that Burning Wish is cheaper, plenty of the cards you can get are just plain better than their Instant counterparts. Pyroclam, Duress, Tendrils, Mind Twist and Deep Analysis are very strong cards, and the "sub-optimal" cards you can get, like Echoing Ruin and Imperial Seal, are still very comparable to what you'd nab with a Cunning.

Cunning has several advantages over Burning: it is blue, so it can be pitched to FoW/MisD and doesn´t require you to fetch an early volcanic. It is Instant, so you don´t have to tap out in the early game (keeping Drain on-line), you can cast it in your opponents attack phase to mess up their Drains or you can play it when you´re under a Wire or as a response to someone stripping your land. It is a utility at a steep price, no need in concealing that. But the utilities it gets (most notably Swords/Disenchant/BEB) are a more effective than their Sorcery counterparts. OTOH, the brokenness BW can get, is a whole lot greater than Cunning Wish (hell, Burning is the one that got restricted). I think we can fill pages on this subject and end up with something that is more or less a draw.

Now, I agree with you for the most part in that, Gifts decks tend to run a lot of situational cards, cards that can win games for you, but you don't necessarily want to draw them until you're ready to get them yourself. Those strong situational cards are what make Brainstorm and Thirst so insanely good. I know you're not opposed to running cards that can be totally useless in a matchup, but are situationally okay, because you're running 2 Phyrexian Furnaces, and an Aether Spellbomb

Those little artifacts are needed to make Thirst work. They have a lot of uses, like making Balance more effective, are a permanent that can be sacced or tapped, can be a maindeck sideboard card in some matchups and in worst case can be cycled. They are a necessary evil and in this deck actually part of the combo.


@others: please do not convert this thread in a discussion about other archtypes, like Oath/Gifts or a deck build around Salvagers.

This is not an Auriok Salvagers deck. It is a Gifts Ungiven based deck.

[smbdy_182]

First of all I would like to commend you for opening this topic about salvager combo. I've been looking for someone who's interested with the combo and incorporating it in a competitive deck.

I have been testing with the deck lately and would like to post some comments on the difference between your deck list and mine.

The use of Gifts Ungiven
- I can see that you arfe using gifts as the set up card. Using reanimation spells as an alternative to yawgmoth's will. But isn't it a risk to use only one copy of salvager? You have no other way of winning ohter than a colossus if it has been dealt with. Also, you do not have the leisure of running recoup for Will in case its been countered/whatever.
*Though I like the idea I would certainly test that.

Cunning Wish
- Though the burning wish route is easier, cunning wish gives more flexibility in terms of the wcards it can fetch. It give you more option to specific threats as against to burning wish. The burning wish rout requires you to win NOW as compared to cunning wish which can win later. As a control player, I like the idea of winning later but with assurance that I would. Could it not be put MD? My only problem using cunning wish is that it clutters your board with plenty of instants that MAY actually be another card that could be sided in for something that you do not need.

Disruption
 I am currently running
4 Drains
4 Force of Will
3 Duress
This are the core disruption of a psychatog deck. The 2 blue counters explain themselves. Duress however takes the proactive approach picking out legal targets from opponent's hand before it sees play. Can't you make room for these? it could be because of different metagames but if you're seeing plenty of control then it could actually merit a second look. Also I would like to hear your comments on playing Misdirection if room permits. the deck runs blue as its major color and taking the idea of MD gifts win NOW could be a nice addition since you are running gifts for the set up and use cunning wish to fetch shallow grave. It would give you the option of taping out while still protecting yourself.

One side note:
In the case of using intuition instead of gifts, I could run intuition since I am playing with 3 salvagers but still using intuitions, it would be really tempting to use accumulated knowledge in the deck.

I'll send you my decklist when I get back to the office. Tell me what you think

[Whatever Works]

"Or cutting the red crap from gifts" ???

What are you talking about??? THE ENTIRE SIDEBOARD is RED... RECOUP IS RED... If you dont think red is good then its obvious that you dont test enough games postboard... Making the kill slightly easier while making the deck lose R@R, REB, and cards that make matchups like staxs winnable.

[Dozer]

True, Both Belcher and Salvagers on the table have their moments. As you see in my report I casted Salvagers only once without actually comboing out and the one card I could draw of its ability (at a steep price of 4) won me the game. Note that Salvagers on the table in the control match makes Lotus a truly excellent deal, because they have to counter it several times. With Belcher on the table, they can allow your Burning Wish and counter your Severance. Belcher can kill Welders, but it can´t block. Can we call it even?

This is not an Auriok Salvagers deck. It is a Gifts Ungiven based deck.

Does the win condition really matter much anyway? Wether you use Salvagers + Lotus, Belcher + Severance or Grim Monolith + Power Artifact, it's all the same in the result. (Yes, I am aware that Grim Power needs a third card. It's just the principle of the thing.) The main thing I think should be discussed is the use of Cunning Wish, which is where the Gifts builds seem to differentiate themselves these days.

The argument Gabe brings up for White instead of Red mainly rests on the shoulders of "less dead cards" and the access to better utility (Disenchant, Sacred Ground, StoP). Brassy has already set apart that the number of dead cards is not much lower than in a red Gifts build, but the higher utility that the combination of Cunning Wish and White provides is the other key point.

But the utilities it gets (most notably Swords/Disenchant/BEB) are a more effective than their Sorcery counterparts. OTOH, the brokenness BW can get, is a whole lot greater than Cunning Wish (hell, Burning is the one that got restricted). I think we can fill pages on this subject and end up with something that is more or less a draw.

I will try to keep myself brief so as not to fill pages with the subject, but I believe it should be adressed in greater detail. Mainly, the utility spells we are referring to are Disenchant and Swords to Plowshares. There are CAB Gifts builds that run Balance and Sacred Ground in the sideboard without kicking Red out of the deck, and Balance arguably becomes stronger with a Burning Wish to get it. On that grounds, I tend to judge in favor of Burning Wish. Why? Easy: because even though you can cast Cunning Wish at the end of your opponents turn, whatever you will get is conditional and detrimental to your advancement of winning. Gifts is a combo-control deck. Cunning Wish is a control card. It only helps the combo when you use it for getting a Brain Freeze for the win.

My problem with Cunning Wish is that except for Ivory Mask, I see no situation where an enchantment in play keeps you from actually winning, so that Disenchant becomes largely irrelevant for that situation. And you can run proper artifact kill main or SB as easy as punch in red, like Jesse Pinchot (sp?) who had 2 Shamans in his SCG-winning deck. The single Swords to Plowshares does nothing that Eye of Nowhere can't do, or in the case of Darksteel Colossus, the maindeck tutorable bounce (Rebuild and/ or Truth) most Gifts decks run.

My point is that I don't see anything in the sideboard here that couldn't be (and has been before) run maindeck. Therefore, I see no justification for Cunning Wish since the card is so damn sloooow. I cut Crucible + Strip from the deck for exactly that reason: Why should I have slow disruption if I can win instead? Unless you need to get rid of something that keeps you from winning, and Echoing Truth can deal with anything in that sense, just play the cards you normally get main instead of the Cunning Wishes. Brain Freeze might be the exception here, but all versions run a single Wish (usually a Burning one), so that would be an option here, too.

Not playing Red also opens the other problem that BrassMan already covered, the power of Recoup. With no way to get your Will back, you have to be more careful how and when you use it. And Pithing Needle as well as Null Rod kills your day, so the combo is on par with Severance + Belcher in that respect. Therefore, the brokenness of Burning Wish, the additional protection that Recoup provides and the extra oomph of Gorilla Shaman (possibly) justify Red over White for me. Salvagers doesn't win any faster than Flame Vault, btw, which can also be split over multiple turns as well as Grim Power, which can also be split and is even cheaper.

I guess it much depends if you want to play Gifts in a more comboish way or rather controllish, but I still see Burning Wish being favoured over Cunning Wish.

THE ENTIRE SIDEBOARD is RED

Not quite, since REB can easily be replaced by Duress and R&R plays second fiddle to Rebuild + other bounce and Sacred Ground, which is basically what beats Stax (if you play it, as many do). Red is not nearly as essential in the board as it is in the maindeck.

Dozer

[Phele]

In my Eyes there are slightly more differences between Burning and Cunning Wish. The main one is that you can run Fling or Berserk (in the Gifts variant with Oath) in the sideboard wich gives you 3-4 mor ways to just win with Colossus in one single turn for 4-5 mana without getting back Time Walk many times, which is an option you still have. And what I like about Cunning Wish as well ist that he works as Counter Number 11-15 (16) like Merchant Scroll, but for one mana more without having to outtap in your turn. Its up to you what you prefer.

[UR]

I've played Salvager-combo in several T1 tournaments and the best result I've had was 9th place. Why? Because there are just too many cards that stop it. Null Rod, Pithing Needle, Tormod's Crypt, Phyrexian Furnace, Swords to Plowshares, Chalice of the Void, Trinisphere, etc. etc.

A Salvagers with no Lotus is rarely better than a Belcher with no Severance, if for no other reason than the fact that Belcher can be pitched to Thirst.  Either card can have their moments on the table, but neither one would be close to worth running without their counterpart (two-land belcher aside, yeah yeah yeah)  You could argue that you can always rip the Lotus with a Salvagers on the board, but I assure you, ripping the Severance with Belcher on the board is a much better deal.

If your deck focusses more around the Salvager it can become quite a good card actually. I've had numerous games where my opponents were facing recurring Tormod's Crypts or Phyrexian Furnaces. If you add Artificer's Intuition to your deck (not as bad as it seems) you can just throw everything into your graveyard and fetch it with the salvagers as a sort of mini-Demonic Tutor.

[Gabethebabe]

"Or cutting the red crap from gifts" ???

What are you talking about??? THE ENTIRE SIDEBOARD is RED... RECOUP IS RED... If you dont think red is good then its obvious that you dont test enough games postboard... Making the kill slightly easier while making the deck lose R@R, REB, and cards that make matchups like staxs winnable.

Dude... chill out. Read the article, not the title of it.

The main reason I choose white is because my meta is filled with Stax and (because of its non-proxy nature) unpowered "hate" decks and relatively few control (that always has its problems coming to the top tables, with the aggro and Fish decks running around).
Sacred Ground wrecks Stax a whole lot more than R&R (Stax boards in BEB, Welds stuff back into play and in the mean time wastes your precious Volcanic, I´ve been on the losing end against Stax more than once after resolving a R&R) and Balance wrecks everything that is not powered and can be a nasty against any other deck. If people splash a single Tundra to run Sacred Ground and Balance, surely there must be something good about white.

I will try to keep myself brief so as not to fill pages with the subject, but I believe it should be adressed in greater detail. Mainly, the utility spells we are referring to are Disenchant and Swords to Plowshares. There are CAB Gifts builds that run Balance and Sacred Ground in the sideboard without kicking Red out of the deck, and Balance arguably becomes stronger with a Burning Wish to get it. On that grounds, I tend to judge in favor of Burning Wish. Why? Easy: because even though you can cast Cunning Wish at the end of your opponents turn, whatever you will get is conditional and detrimental to your advancement of winning. Gifts is a combo-control deck. Cunning Wish is a control card. It only helps the combo when you use it for getting a Brain Freeze for the win.

The main Cunning target is Shallow Grave. Without Shallow Grave the whole deck is completely unplayable. This deck is not about resolving Yawgmoth´s Will. I´ve thrown in more than once in the GY without the possibility to get it back and just won with the other two cards they gave me.

My problem with Cunning Wish is that except for Ivory Mask, I see no situation where an enchantment in play keeps you from actually winning, so that Disenchant becomes largely irrelevant for that situation. And you can run proper artifact kill main or SB as easy as punch in red, like Jesse Pinchot (sp?) who had 2 Shamans in his SCG-winning deck. The single Swords to Plowshares does nothing that Eye of Nowhere can't do, or in the case of Darksteel Colossus, the maindeck tutorable bounce (Rebuild and/ or Truth) most Gifts decks run.

Does Disenchant kill enchantments? *Read the card*. Jee you´re right  
Destroying or removing something from the game is better than bouncing it. Bounce is good when you go off, but in that case you were not having real problems. If you have real problems than bouncing that Welder isn´t going to do you any good if the next turn it is on the table again.

As I said in my main post: I´m not saying that this build is better than red. Or even tied. I just choose this deck because of the decks in my meta, to have the edge of the surprise (Necropotenza admitted that he sideboarded badly, which is what a new/unknown deck does to people) and just to try something else. And hey, it worked for me.
Other than discussing how I could be so utterly stupid cutting that red crap from Gifts, anyone sees actually something to improve on the idea?

I've played Salvager-combo in several T1 tournaments and the best result I've had was 9th place. Why? Because there are just too many cards that stop it. Null Rod, Pithing Needle, Tormod's Crypt, Phyrexian Furnace, Swords to Plowshares, Chalice of the Void, Trinisphere, etc. etc.

If your deck focusses more around the Salvager it can become quite a good card actually. I've had numerous games where my opponents were facing recurring Tormod's Crypts or Phyrexian Furnaces. If you add Artificer's Intuition to your deck (not as bad as it seems) you can just throw everything into your graveyard and fetch it with the salvagers as a sort of mini-Demonic Tutor.

I can imagine you do no better than 9th with Salvager combo. It is a bad deck. Gifts, on the other hand, is not.

[Methuselahn]

I'd have to agree with what Dozer is saying in general here. I see how Cunning Wish can have advantages over Burning Wish but Burning requires few cards in hand, and less mana. 

Compare these Gifts piles:

Salvagers
Lotus
Burning Wish -> Reanimate.
Recoup

Salvagers
Lotus
Will
Cunning Wish

With the first pile they can't hand you Salvagers Lotus, because you win on the spot.  Assuming you have a few lands, which you probably will because you just recently cast Gifts.  Lotus, Burning, which is likely what you will get, nets you a Salvager on the spot if you have a black or red mana available and can resolve it.  Lotus, Recoup also leads to a Reanimate on Salvagers.  So it is a matter of drawing any one of those cards ahead of time or having Cunning for the Freeze, or a Spellbomb, or Tendrils.  I dunno, maybe something to think about.