Dredge and Bazaar of Baghdad

[Luiggi]

Quick question about Dredge and it's interaction with Bazaar of Baghdad...

Let's say we have 2 Darkblasts in our graveyard (or any other Dredge card, really), and activate Bazaar of Baghdad. At this point we choose to replace both of the Bazaar's draws with the Dredge mechanic and return both Darkblasts to our hand. The question is, do we still need to discard 3 cards?

Since it's a replacement effect and we never actually draw cards off the Bazaar, I'd imagine that we wouldn't need to discard anything, much like Bazaar's interaction with Uba Mask... I'd appreciate a confirmation or rebuttal of this.

Luiggi

[epeeguy]

Let's say we have 2 Darkblasts in our graveyard (or any other Dredge card, really), and activate Bazaar of Baghdad. At this point we choose to replace both of the Bazaar's draws with the Dredge mechanic and return both Darkblasts to our hand. The question is, do we still need to discard 3 cards?

Yes.

Bazaar of Baghdad says ": Draw two cards, then discard three cards."  When you would draw a card, Dredge allows you to replace the draw (and only the draw) with the ability to Mill X cards and then return the card with Dredge to your hand.  However, all that does is replace the event of the card draw itself.  It doesn't change anything else about the ability that caused the card to be drawn.

So, with two Darkblasts in your graveyard and choosing to replace both card draws with Dredge, effectively the text of Bazaar might read:

":  Put the top 3 cards from your library into the graveyard and return Darkblast to your hand.  Put the top 3 cards from your library into the graveyard and return Darkblast to your hand.  Discard three cards."

Since the discard is not dependent on having drawn cards (if it were, it would have to say "If you drew cards this way, then discard three cards."), then you still have to discard three cards.

[Limbo]

much like Bazaar's interaction with Uba Mask

The interaction between bazaar and uba mask is that the cards you draw with the bazaar are removed from the game instead (these removed cards can still be cast because of uba mask). However, this only negates the discard effect if your hand is already empty (making the "discard 3 cards" effectively "void"). If you have cards in your hand when you activate bazaar with an uba mask in play, you still need to discard 3...

[ctthespian]

Since it's a replacement effect and we never actually draw cards off the Bazaar, I'd imagine that we wouldn't need to discard anything, much like Bazaar's interaction with Uba Mask...

Bazaar works with Uba Mask only because the player doesn't have a hand when using the bazaar and therefore have no cards to discard.

I see Limbo beat me too it.

[Luiggi]

Ah, ok, this clarifies a lot. I was under the impression that when you activate a Bazaar with an Uba Mask out you never discarded, even if your hand was full, since you weren't actually drawing any cards off the Bazaar. I figured that would've "countered" the rest of the Bazaar's activated ability... I guess I thought it was like the old Sylvan Library/Abundance combo, where you wouldn't have to put back any cards due to Sylvan Library, since you replaced those two optional draws with Abundance activations...

Thanks for clarifying!

Luiggi

[Limbo]

Sylvan Library has an "if you do" clause. So if you don't draw the cards (by replacing the draw by something else), you don't have to put them back. Just to explain Sylvan Library completely, there is one more thing you can do to prevent putting back a card.

Suppose you have a Sylvan Library, and a Words of Worship. At the beginning of your Draw Phase, you draw your card for the turn, which turns out to be a Lightning Bolt. Then you stack the Sylvan Library ability. Before the trigger from the Sylvan Library resolves, you can sling the lightning bolt at something. If you would replace one card drawn for Sylvan Library by the effect from Words of Worship, the "put cards back" from the Sylvan Library would only affect the single card in your hand that was drawn that turn, and you would only have to put back one, OR pay 4 life. If the lightning bolt would be an Ancestral Recall, you get the choice to put back 2 out of the four cards in your hand drawn that turn, as now you can choose either of the 4 cards drawn. If you cast brainstorm, then you are in for some serious book-keeping, but I think / hope you get the point.

[Luiggi]

I sort of do, but no worries, I'm not about to play Sylvan Library in any format, .

Luiggi

[LotusHead]

I have a followup questiion about Dredge.

Dredging up Darkblast under Possessed Portal? Is that ok?  Cereberal Assassin may get a new toy!

[Gabethebabe]

That will work, you can choose which of the replacement effects to apply.

[LotusHead]

That will work, you can choose which of the replacement effects to apply.

Speaking of replacement effects, Yawgmoth's Will and discarding (or sacrificing) a Darksteel Colossus. Both have replacement effects. Could you will DSC away if you wanted to? (RFG Colossus? )

[epeeguy]

Speaking of replacement effects, Yawgmoth's Will and discarding (or sacrificing) a Darksteel Colossus. Both have replacement effects. Could you will DSC away if you wanted to? (RFG Colossus? )

Provided the Colossus would somehow go to the graveyard, yes you could.  The controller/owner of the Colossus can choose the replacement effect of the Will to remove it from the game, or you can choose the replacement effect of the Colossus to have it shuffled into your library.

[Lunar]

Cereberal Assassin may get a new toy!

worried about me jeff??? heh...

I still prefer Death Spark over Darkblast in CA for now...killing people with the spark AND being able to kill multiple welders/shamans is pretty coo, couple that with multiple triskelions and duplicant and its already pretty cooll...however....being able to kill 2/2s and stuff with all the draw in my deck is neat as well..

you also cant forget that death spark acts like a squee that costs 1...darkblast doesnt help with card advantage with bazaar

sorry to keep this a bit off topic, heh...

[Upinthe]

Quick question about Dredge and it's interaction with Bazaar of Baghdad...

Let's say we...

Luiggi

I call the judge over because you are getting coached...

Don't dredge (haha) up months-old topics for stuff like this.  In fact, don't dredge up months-old threads at all.  -Dante