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Author Topic: SCG Chicago Update  (Read 11535 times)
Dante
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« on: October 30, 2005, 12:40:42 am »

Top 8 was

Jdizzle - Belcher
Vroman - Uba Stax
Smemmen - Grim Long
Mat Endress - Oath
UW Fish
Oath Gifts
5cStax
?? (i think the last one was Gifts)

There were 4 players (9-12th place) that were 5-1-1 and didn't make it.


quarters

Vroman beat Jdizzle 2-0
Smemmen beat Endress 2-0
5cstax beat Oath Gifts 2-1
UW Fish beat ??

Semis

Vroman beat UW Fish
Smemmen and 5cStax were heading into Game 3 when I left



Oh and Kevin Cron was kicked out for having a beer or something like that.  someone had made a "Free Kevin Cron" shirt and we all signed it.
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« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2005, 01:05:32 am »

I was the ?? player, and I was playing ICBM Oath.  I lost to Fish, because his entire DECK was hate, plus I screwed up a few minor things.  Plus I couldn't draw an Orchard to save my life.  Vroman won yet again.
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« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2005, 01:15:07 am »

Vroman won?? Jeez, that guy is insane!!! Atleast Grim Long T8ed....I wanna see that list...
What other portal cards were there?

Well Congrats!!
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« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2005, 01:47:04 am »

Congrats to everybody having made Top 8.
Dizzle did it with belcher even though a better version of long's available, that's pretty insane ... (Well, belcher is pretty good in the excepted combo mirrors ... Wink )
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« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2005, 01:57:32 am »

Congrats to everybody having made Top 8.
Dizzle did it with belcher even though a better version of long's available, that's pretty insane ... (Well, belcher is pretty good in the excepted combo mirrors ... Wink )

Combo mirrors, from what I watched today, were just absolutely ridiculous.  Makes me smile  Very Happy

I played Smmenen in Round 1, he won the die roll and game 1 on turn 1, I Tinker-Colossus'ed turn 1 game 2 and won, and he just comboed out before me game 3. 

Beat FCG, got beat in left and right by Gifts (TWO turn 1 tinker-colossus) and that was just a sample of my games.  Theres much more to say about what I watched, but its 1 am (kinda-sorta 2am...hooray daylight savings!) so...I'll have a decklist up in the morning, and a full report later on in the week.

Just for reference, I played Grim Long and scrubbed out 2-5. 
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« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2005, 02:36:29 am »

Best play of the night, jdizzle trying to go all the way with a hardcasted esg versus a null rod and chalice for 2.

Apparently, Oath of druids is the new suburb of Chicago.  There must have been more oath decks than anything else.
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« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2005, 07:21:04 am »

I hate chicago. we got stuck in contruction traffic for 1.5hrs on the way home. youd think if you have to wait 90 minutes to get through their stupid tollway theyd wave the toll on principle. but no we got bloodsucked 3 times for a total of $1.90

my matchups:
rd 1
gifts win 2-0
rd 2
oath lose 0-2
rd 3
cunning wish.dec? win 2-1
rd 4
UB fish win 2-0
rd 5
5c stax win 2-1
rd 6
conrol slaver win 2-0
rd 7
TPS win 2-1
top 8
rd 1
belcher win 2-0
rd 2
UW fish win 2-1
finals
5c stax win 2-0

the oath matchup is one of the more random ones that v muchso depends on sideboard cards. game 1 my hand had no chance of beating oath, and Id surely muligan if Id guessed thats what I was up against. game 2 I had a sick opening chalice wall 0,1,2, but he got double waste and I never drew another land, while Carp hit all his land drops and hardcast turn 7 woodripper. the 5c manabase keeps tempting me: darkblast and ray of revelation would solve a lot of problems.
I was very happy to dodge all THREE oath decks in the top 8, and in fact got pretty much a dream set of pairings w belcher, fishies, and stax mirror, all of which are no problem. control slaver is the only deck I genuinely fear, but oath is broken enough to make me much more worried than any other combo-control dealio. I still havent faced the grimlong deck, but Im sure my standard chalice+null anti-combo main deck would pull me through if smennen had won.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2005, 07:25:49 am by vroman » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2005, 10:21:40 am »

how did steve do?
What was the highest placing gifts deck?
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« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2005, 11:08:46 am »

how did steve do?
What was the highest placing gifts deck?

it looks like steve lost to 5cstax in game 3 in the semis, so he would be 3rd or 4th.  The highest placing Gifts decks seem to be in 5th-8th place

1st - vroman uba stax
2nd - 5cstax
3rd/4th - uw fish and grim long(steve)
5th - 8th 2 x Oath (dan carp and mat endress), Gifts Oath, and Belcher (Jdizzle)

The Grim long builds appear to have 1 imperial seal and 3-4 grim longs.
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« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2005, 11:14:34 am »

I'm very interested in the Oath build Endress and Carp have been discussing in various Internet fora. At first, I thought it was a pile but then thought it made sense if you think of it as a Fish-esque deck with Oath instead of weenie beatdown. I'm looking forward to their discussion of their Oath twist.
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« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2005, 12:02:25 pm »



5th - 8th 2 x Oath (dan carp and mat endress), Gifts Oath, and Belcher (Jdizzle)


I'm actually BEN Carp; Dan is my brother, and he finished 18th.

Here's the current decklist:


Quote
ICBM Chalice Oath:

1 Gaea's Blessing
1 Strip Mine
2 Wasteland
2 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Duress
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rushing River
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
2 Pithing Needle
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
1 Razia, Boros Archangel
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
4 Oath of Druids
SB: 2 Rack and Ruin
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 1 Volcanic Island
SB: 1 Platinum Angel
SB: 1 Pristine Angel
SB: 1 Woodripper
SB: 2 Oxidize
SB: 2 Wasteland
SB: 3 Ground Seal

Needs a tiny bit of work, but it was really good to me the whole day.
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« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2005, 12:07:56 pm »

Congratulations to both Carps and two questions:

1. Would you categorize this deck as closer to aggro-control than anything else?

2. Would you now say that Razia is better for Spirit of the Night's slot?
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« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2005, 12:15:12 pm »

Need Belcher and Long lists ...  :shock:
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« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2005, 12:17:20 pm »

@Thagunslinga:

Why drain over leak?  I only see 8 significant sinks in there, so it seems like you'd take mana burn more often than not, especially since I don't think you'd ever really want to cast chalice for 1 or 2.  It also looks like it puts unnecessary strain on the mana base, and leak can be cast more often to protect oath.
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« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2005, 12:20:07 pm »

Thank you.  It's sort of Aggro-Control-Combo, which is why it's so hard to consistently beat Oath.  I didn't get very many explosive hands at the tournament, unfortunately, and I never got any "Orchard, Mox, Oath" hands.

Razia helped a little, like when my opponent attacked with a Ninja of the Deep Hours, a Meddling Mage (named Brainstorm), and 2 Spirit Tokens. I blocked the Ninja and redirected the damage to the Meddling Mage, which helped a lot, though probably didn't affect the match outcome.  Ultimately I don't think there's much difference between the two.  The "can be blocked by Pentavus" thing is irrelevant, though, since Slaver was virtually absent at Starcity and is basically a bye anyway.

Frankly, Mana Leak is a bad card, in that it's not a hard counter.  Drain stops anything, and I rarely had trouble with sinking mana.  The Drains do get boarded out a bit, and we're thinking of messing around with Muddle the Mixture or something like that.  Ultimately it's just that Draining into a Thirst, a Chalice, or even a hardcast creature or an Oath can be game over.  Mana Leak can be worthless.

Also, I never really had to protect Oath; once it hit, it was game over if I could activate it.  Drain wasn't used defensively to protect my stuff as much as it was used offensively to prevent someone from winning.
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« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2005, 12:38:23 pm »

Thanks. (Aggro-Control-Combo... I am beginning to hate nomenclatures that increasingly seem to make no sense to the uninitiated. Razz)

You should write another report/deck philosophy explanation. I don't think the last two were taken all that seriously.
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« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2005, 03:24:52 pm »

1) Expect a report in the coming days.  I'll likely submit to SCG because it will better stroke my ego, thus serving me better in my ultimate quest for power.
2) Expect a primer on Belcher as well.  It'll be one of my epics (likely 3 parts, like Steve's original DeathLong primer).  Also, an updated primer on DeathLong will follow as well.  I've gotten requests for it, and it's still an interesting deck.
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« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2005, 03:37:35 pm »

1) Expect a report in the coming days.  I'll likely submit to SCG because it will better stroke my ego, thus serving me better in my ultimate quest for power.
2) Expect a primer on Belcher as well.  It'll be one of my epics (likely 3 parts, like Steve's original DeathLong primer).  Also, an updated primer on DeathLong will follow as well.  I've gotten requests for it, and it's still an interesting deck.

we all are looking forward to this.

great job man.  it further proves you are the best combo player in the world.
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« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2005, 03:48:09 pm »

Also, here's this to tide you guys over:

JD-Land Belcher

1 Taiga
1 Bayou
4 Land Grant
1 Black Lotus
5 Moxes
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
1 LED
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Grim Monolith
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Dark Ritual
3 Cabal Ritual
1 Channel
4 ESG
4 Tinder Wall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
2 Living Wish
1 Memory Jar
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Necropotence
3 Duress
4 Joblin Welder
4 Joblin Charbelcher

Board:
1 Artifact Mutation
1 City of Brass
1 City of Traitors
1 Dark Confidant (Holy Fuck! this is amazing)
1 Elvish Scrapper
1 Eternal Witness
2 Naturalize
1 Oxidize
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Xantid Swarm

Details will be in the primer.
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« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2005, 06:38:03 pm »

I played CS to a 3-3-0 record.  I was 3-2-0 going into the 6th round and at the 12th table (so all hope was not lost) but some wierd grim long list with Ill-Gotten Gains beat me 2-0.  I faced (in this order) WTF (2-0), Oath (0-2), U/B Fish (0-2), Dragon (2-0), Belcher (2-0) and wierd Grim Long (0-2).  All in all, it was a pretty good tournament.  There was so much Oath and combo, though...
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« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2005, 07:32:33 pm »

Mat Endress's deck
GWS Oath

Hey Guyz-I'm playing Oath
4 Oath
1 Blessing
1 Spirit
1 Akroma

Stuff that annoys opponent
4 Force
4 Duress
4 Mana Leak
0 Chalice
0 Drain

Find my Oath and Orchard
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vamp tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Crop Rotation

Mana and stuff:
4 Orchard
5 Strip
5 mox
1 Lotus
2 City of brass
4 fetchland
2 island
1 sea
1 trop

SB:
1 Tinker
1 DSC
2 Trike
2 Choke
3 Ground Seal
3 Oxidize
3 Annul

I'm assuming Endress will write a report and/or post here but here's the summary of changes.  We cut chalices in anticipation of lots of mox monkeys.  Since we did that we had to cut TFKs.  Everyone on the team agrees that top is absolutely amazing.  Mana Leaks helped the Dragon and Stax matchups.  Unfortunately for me, I played against TPS, random storm combo, and Belcher and play against 0 decks with MWS, Drain, or Bazaar in the 6 rounds I played.  Leaks are currently being debated by the team on their usefulness.

We also still maintain that Woodripper and Angels are complete ass in the sideboard.

About the metagame:
Infinite Oath.  Holy shit there was a ton.
Lots of combo.  A ton more than I expected.
Less Stax than I thought.
Less Dragon than I thought-barely saw any
Seriously like 2 Control Slaver decks.
Only a few more Gifts decks than CS decks.

Just to be clear about the top 8:
2 decks with MWS
2 decks with Drain
2 decks with Rit
2 decks with neither

Can you say balanced?
« Last Edit: October 30, 2005, 07:39:38 pm by Moxlotus » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2005, 07:59:38 pm »

FINALLY someone is running Top in Oath. Good job.
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« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2005, 08:16:42 pm »

The UW Fish player was none other than the Vintage Avant-Garde's newest addition, Paul Nickolo.  Nicely done Paul, and way to represent!

Expect more top 8's from this guy, he is fucking SAVAGE.
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« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2005, 08:48:24 pm »


About the metagame:
Infinite Oath.  Holy shit there was a ton.
Lots of combo.  A ton more than I expected.
Less Stax than I thought.
Less Dragon than I thought-barely saw any
Seriously like 2 Control Slaver decks.
Only a few more Gifts decks than CS decks.
say balanced?

Really - I saw a bunch of Gifts including playing 3 of them (going 3-0, without any of them being really close to losing).  I played 5c Dragon and ended up 4-2-1 like 24th place.  My own horrible misplays turned a win into a draw and a draw into a loss (game loss in extra turns for creating an irreparable game state).  ugh.
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« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2005, 09:06:42 pm »

I still havent faced the grimlong deck,

That's not true.  A couple of weeks ago we played five games on MWS and if I recall I went either 4-1 or 5-0 against you. 

You played Uba Mask and it permitted me to  play multiple draw7s while having access to all of the cards I had seen in prior draw7s. 

Uba Mask helps Grim Long out alot - Brainstorm becomes Ancestral. 

My plan against all stax yesterday was as follows:

+ 2 Hurkyl's Recalls (one maindeck)
+ 2 Elvish Spirit Guides (two maindeck)

That way I have
3 Hurkyl's
4 ESG

That only works for one tournament, so thats why I'm bringing it up.

But the idea is this:

Why would Stax ever play chalice 2? 

I have almost nothing in my deck that costs 2. 

Chalice 1 stops alot and chalice 0 stops alot.  After that, Chalice 3 is the best since it stops Will and Draw7s.  I can still drop stuff into Chalices and Desire and try to win with 3cc spells if chalice 0 and 1 are in play, but you can't if chalcie 3 is down.

Therefore, the logical thing to do is to play Hurkyl's Recall.  Chalice 2 cuts Stax out of SPheres and Null Rods if they drop it early. 

I have tested all the Stax matchups quite a bit since I thought Stax would be predominant.  My opinion of the Grim Long stax matchup is pretty straightforward.  Stax doesn't stop any of the spells you can play - it just attacks the mana.  I am much, much more afraid of Control Slaver and Gifts because they can counter you and the combo out first.  In testing, I played this game against Control Slaver;

Turn ONe:
I play first and go:
Mox, Land Walk
Land, Ritual Windfall
seeing: Duress, Imperial Seal, Necro, and Ritual.  I could play Ritual NEcro, but if it gets FoWed i would have lost a huge threat.  I could play Duress, but i think about it, and he hasn't gotten a turn yet, so I should be ok.  I play Seal and plan on going turn two: Duress, Necro and winning on turn three.

Well I pass the turn and Joe wins.  He walks, Ancestrals, Academy and moxen and then plays Will replaying the shit I windfalled into his yard.  He slaves me, plays Necro and kills me.

That's why I'm most scared of Slaver and Gifts.  They can combo out so easily and draw7s are pretty risky.

Against Stax, they can do NOTHING if you go first and they can't stop your answers. The trick is to be smart about the answers.  Obviously, I'll never play this deck again, so I don't care if i reveal what i already played.  But I knew that people wouldn't know my lsit and therefore I could get away with just Hurks against Stax.  I was right.

In the quarters I played against stax.  In game one I made a pretty big play mistake and as a result I was locked under:
Trinisphere
Sphere of Resistence
Chalice 1 and 0

Yet I Hurkyed eot and then won.

Game Two:
I kept this hand on the draw:
City of brass
Sapphire
Mana Crypt
Hurkyl's Recall
Windfall
??
??

He goes turn one Trinisphere.

I stay in the game and eventually I get ESG, eSG, Hukryl's but I made some mistakes and discarded my Tendrils on turn one which got Cypted so I had no way to win even if I could break his lock. 

Game Three:
I mulligan this hand:
Jet
Pearl
Sol Ring
Ritual
ESG
Regrowth
TEndrils

I can't keep that hand

I mull into a six card hand with no mana

I mull into a five card hand with:

Gemstone Mine
Brainstorm
Ancestral REcall
??
??

I go:
Gemstone, Ancestral

Of COURSE, he goes:
Workshop, Trinisphere

Soon he got all the lock components down.

Eventually I built up a hand with:
land,
ESG
ESG
Hurkyl's Recall
But I had nothing to follow it up with.  If I had like Lotus and a draw7 I probably would have won or like Crypt, Mox, and a draw7, but I didn't have enough time as he beat me down with Shaman. 

So I got Trinisphered ALL THREE GAMES and if I hadn't have gotten 3sphered on turn one both games 2 and 3, I think I would have had a real shot (esp. if i didn't have to mull to 5 in game three).

But its all moot now, because I try not to play the same deck twice. 

BTW, my list was:

GrimLong

1 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Forbidden Orchard
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
1 Lotus
1 LED
4 Dark Ritual
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
2 Elvish Spirit Guides

2 Cabal Rituals

4 Brainstorm (duh)
4 Duress (duh)

1 Necro
1 Desire
1 Will
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain

1 Jar
1 Tinker
1 Wheel
1 Windfall
1 Twister

1 Hurkyl's
1 Xantid Swarm


1 Ancestral
1 Time Walk

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Vampiric Tutor

3 Grim Tutor
1 Regrowth


1 Tendrils

SB:
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Balance
1 Abeyance
1 Darksteel Colossus
I don't remember the rest of my board. 
« Last Edit: October 30, 2005, 09:15:58 pm by Smmenen » Logged
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« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2005, 10:47:56 pm »

The UW Fish player was none other than the Vintage Avant-Garde's newest addition, Paul Nickolo.  Nicely done Paul, and way to represent!

Expect more top 8's from this guy, he is fucking SAVAGE.

Thanks, Brain, but for future reference it's "Nicolo."

Anyways, here were my matches. I'm sorry if I forgot your names, this was my first Vintage event with more than 25 people in attendance.

1: Stax (Roland Chang)
Win 2-1

2: Stax
Win 2-0

3: Oath
Win 2-1 (I think, may have been 2-0.)

4: Dragon
Win 2-0 (opponent had unfortunate mulligans both games.)

5: Oath (Ben, can't remember last name. I'm bad at that..)
Win 2-1 (screwed up game one. Only game one I lost all day. Savage misplays.)

6: Grim Combo (Stephen Menendian)
Intentional Draw

7: Stax (Sean, can't remember last name. I really should, since we're both from Michigan. Sorry..)
Intentional Draw

Top 8: Oath (Ben again.)
2-0 Win (more stupid misplays, involving getting the wrong land with a fetchland and confusing myself about the mana costs of Standstill and Meddling Mage. But I still manage to win through my own bafoonary.)

Top 4: Uba Stax (Robert Vroman)
1-2 Loss (I met the wrong end of way too many Wastelands and Pyroblasts. They just kept coming..)

I did alright for my first event, and I look forward to future events.

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« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2005, 10:58:18 pm »

Haha. I sympathize, Paul, having seen "R-a-s-k-o" a little too often even from local players!
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« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2005, 01:25:49 am »

I forgot to congratuate Vroman personally.  You earned it, buddy. Smile
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« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2005, 03:24:04 am »

Congrats to Vroman on his win.

One question, can Top finally replace Impulse in Oath? Or is Impulse still the better card?
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« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2005, 04:21:42 am »

When I grow up, I want to be just like JDizzle!
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I can break chairs, therefore I am greater than you.

Team ISP: And as a finishing touch, god created The Dutch!
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