Hi-Val
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« Reply #60 on: February 22, 2006, 03:38:13 pm » |
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I'm putting together a second deck for people to use who want to try the format but don't have a deck yet. I figured Aggro would be a good place to start. How does this list look:
Green: Wild Mongrel Werebear Eternal Witness Thornscape Battlemage Skyshroud Elite
White: Kami of Ancient Law Steelshaper's Gift Swords to Plowshares Mother of Runes Soltari Trooper
Blue: Sea Drake Steamcore Weird Cloud Elemental Trinket Mage Man O' War
Black: Seal of Doom Shadow Guildmage No Rest For The Wicked Flesh Reaver Bone Shredder
Red: Hearth Kami Tin Street Hooligan Flametongue Kavu Seal of Fire Fireslinger Avalanche Riders
Artifacts: Aether Vial Skullclamp Bonesplitter Granite Shard Fellwar Stone Sensei's Divining Top
Gold: (B, U, W, G) Moroii Sleeper's Robe Armadillo Cloak Selesnya Guildmage
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« Reply #61 on: February 22, 2006, 03:49:46 pm » |
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That list is hot, but I'd add some more finishers. Decks in this format tend to have very few real answers to actual spells, so a Fireball or the like can often just end the game.
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Philatio
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« Reply #62 on: February 22, 2006, 04:06:19 pm » |
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That list is hot, but I'd add some more finishers. Decks in this format tend to have very few real answers to actual spells, so a Fireball or the like can often just end the game.
Fanning the Flames has often been hot in our metagame on and off.
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Thug
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« Reply #63 on: February 23, 2006, 09:18:09 am » |
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So, I was a bit bored and decided to put some thought into this casual format. I found it's really hard to come up with deck ideas, as 99% of decks that have ever excisted are based around rare cards.
I build several decks and tried them for a while:
I build a controllish deck with several Arcane and Splice cards in it. Revival + Witness can be pretty nice, as can splicing a Glacial Ray. Horobi's Whipser and especially Hideous Laughter are pretty decent removal cards.
I build a land-destruction deck that is pretty decent (I think its at least better than the one mentioned on the Skittles page) I'll post it below
I build a deck based around lands which shows some promise but still needs a lot of work.
For some discussion, here's the LD deck, which is the deck I put most time in so far:
Skittles LD v1.1
// Lands 1 Rocky Tar Pit 1 Mountain Valley 1 Grasslands 1 Flood Plain 1 Bad River 1 Treetop Village 1 Mishra's Factory 1 Barbarian Ring 1 Crosis's Catacombs 1 Darigaaz's Caldera 1 Rith's Grove 1 Ancient Tomb 1 Mirrodin's Core 1 Gemstone Mine 1 Wasteland // Gold 1 Pain // Suffering 1 Electrolyze 1 Terminate 1 Wreak Havoc 1 Temporal Spring // Black 1 Rain of Tears 1 Nightscape Battlemage 1 Despoil 1 Sinkhole 1 Befoul // Blue 1 Deep Analysis 1 Allied Strategies 1 Control Magic 1 Annex (Best card in the deck!!) 1 Confiscate // Red 1 Avalanche Riders 1 Dwarven Miner 1 Pillage 1 Stone Rain // Green 1 Eternal Witness 1 Fallow Earth 1 Creeping Mold 1 Ice Storm 1 Llanowar Elves // White 1 Seal of Cleansing 1 Raise the Alarm 1 Icatian Javelineers 1 Orim's Thunder 1 Swords to Plowshares 1 Benalish Emissary // Artifact 1 Icy Manipulator 1 Skullclamp 1 Pyrite Spellbomb 1 Fellwar Stone 1 Etched Oracle 1 Ark of Blight
With many decks packing Lairs/New bounce lands LD seems a valid strategy. Stealing 2 mana lands is savage, as is destroying them. I prbably should have another Miner in there, but there are too many good red cards. The white part is very weak, and I think I missed some cards there.
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I also toyed around with the Skullclamp combo deck posted on the website and found it pretty consistent. It sure needs to make room for a Reaping the Graves though, I would say I should replace the Priest of Gix.
Nice and fun format. Koen
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Hi-Val
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« Reply #64 on: February 23, 2006, 11:45:28 am » |
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Splice is a fascinating idea, Thug! I am going to get cracking on a list myself. I'm pretty sure you can get the Haze lock going too.
I played a lot of games last night with my controllish deck and found that if I get any two Hondens out, I basically cannot lose. Players need to integrate Hondens into their deck or expect them enough so that they do not run into problems with them if they pop up in the metagame. If they do, Aura Shards is pretty incredible when dealing with them.
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« Reply #65 on: February 23, 2006, 01:40:12 pm » |
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I suggested Annex to Kowal yesterday. I think it's the card I least want to face in the entire format. Between that and hondens, I may have to increase my enchantment removal capabilities (although I already have 3 and 3 tutors for them).
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« Reply #66 on: February 23, 2006, 03:31:01 pm » |
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I like the sound of Annex, it's like a blue colour fixer too.
And when the Treetop is giving you the smackdown...
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Philatio
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« Reply #67 on: February 23, 2006, 03:47:57 pm » |
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So, I was a bit bored and decided to put some thought into this casual format. I found it's really hard to come up with deck ideas, as 99% of decks that have ever excisted are based around rare cards.
I also toyed around with the Skullclamp combo deck posted on the website and found it pretty consistent. It sure needs to make room for a Reaping the Graves though, I would say I should replace the Priest of Gix.
I tried that around iteration 1 and thought it was decent, but then thought no rest for the wicked was just better. I don't think I recall cutting anything to iteratively goldfish it though, so it might be an improvement. But I adore Priest, if for no other reason that he gives me double black and can be fetched with impereal recruiter. I'll pull the deck out again and see about RtG. As far as spirit/arcane goes, right when kamigawa came out some of the locals made (like 3 different people) spirit/arcane decks that just built themselves and they are surprisingly good. Splice gets sick, and the CIP spirits that return to your hand are nuts (especially the white one vs my honden deck). The card advantage and the fact that some of the spirits are good on their own make it a versitile deck that can go beatdown or just avalanche you with critical mass late game.
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Philatio
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« Reply #68 on: February 23, 2006, 04:10:35 pm » |
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I played a lot of games last night with my controllish deck and found that if I get any two Hondens out, I basically cannot lose. Players need to integrate Hondens into their deck or expect them enough so that they do not run into problems with them if they pop up in the metagame. If they do, Aura Shards is pretty incredible when dealing with them.
I think my 2nd deck was a controllish Honden deck, and yeah, Hondens are absolutely awesome. Simon promptly made a deck with plenty of enchantment hate that just spanks it though (but then again i lost pyroclasm when portal became legal, and that card was one of the most stupid cards in the deck). He had aura shards, but already had crystal shard/CIP creatures, so it was even better. Plus Kami of Ancient Law is just a solid bear anyhow. Other people were toying with hondens at the time, and since they are legendary i wanted to assure "honden supremacy" and included lots of enchantment recursion. Even so, the triggers are so slow, sometimes they just aren't quick enough. I was running sterling grove, seal of doom/cleansing, auramancer, monk idealist, and of course the UBER UBER broken crystal chimes (the format's closest thing to replenish). Even with all that, the deck loses to a decent amount of enchantment hate. But you are right, sideboard wise, there are definately some cards you want against hondens. aura shards and other multicolored cards are tough to board though just because sometimes the best card to board out isnt the correct one to board out due to color. I think Simon has allay in his board - very very solid.
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« Reply #69 on: February 23, 2006, 05:43:43 pm » |
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Ooh, while we're on the topic of sideboards, I'll talk about mine. First, I went through the deck to figure out which cards I can cut. In my list, there's just no way to cut any of the black or green cards, so I didn't bother to put any in my board. White had the most flexibility, since it was pretty much all random removal spells, but blue, red, and artifacts had some potential cuts as well. Before I did those, though, I looked at my gold cards. The two that I might want to cut are Spontaneous Combustion (against more controllish strategies) and Skyknight Legionnaire (against aggro decks). So, I just put a Terminate and a Captain's Maneuver in the board to allow simple one for one swaps (although I can cut both for Orzhov Guildmage and a red card, too). I put an Aura Shards in the board, and it can either come in for Selesnya Guildmage (frown), or I can cut a white card and Shambling Shell for Shards and Orzhov Guildmage.
For white utility, I currently have Tempest of Light, Kami of Ancient Law, Auramancer, and Shelter. Against different decks, I can swap out any and all of my white cards (Swords, Humble, Dragoons, Thunder, Seed Spark), so I wanted a good mix of utility. I also wanted to make sure that I could board in creatures if I needed to--I didn't want my postboard games to have to be creature light. I also really like having some surprise cards in my board, like Shelter and Captain's Maneuver. I think I want about one more white card in the board, but it's hard to figure out what it should be or what I should cut to make room for it.
For blue, I have Probe and Veiled Serpent, which I'm surprised to not see in more decklists. I guess a lot of people are low on "real" islands, but it's huge! Probe is good in longer matches, and any time I want to really hammer their hand (I guess I'd bring it in against splice, for example). It's a nice default swap for Ray of Command in matches where that kind of trick is less useful.
For red, I have Steam Blast and Grab the Reins for more aggresive decks (cutting probably Thunderscape Battlemage and Avalanche Riders) and Keldon Vandals for utility.
Finally, I run Sun Droplet and Wizard Replica, because Droplet is amazing (comes in for Top, probably), and sometimes I don't want Infused Arrows (so Replica is a nice utility swap).
Interestingly enough, I can up my creature count by five if I really want more of them, or cut it by up to seven or eight if I don't want as many. I think that kind of strategic flexibiliy is a good goal for a skittles SB.
So, the full board:
Orzhov Guildmage Aura Shards Terminate Captain's Maneuver
Shelter Kami of Ancient Law Tempest of Light Auramancer
Probe Veiled Serpent
Keldon Vandals Steam Blast Grab the Reins
Sun Droplet Wizard Replica
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Thug
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« Reply #70 on: February 23, 2006, 06:05:30 pm » |
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Splice is a fascinating idea, Thug! I am going to get cracking on a list myself. I'm pretty sure you can get the Haze lock going too. Here's my list so far: //NAME: Splice Control // White 1 Ethereal Haze 1 Swords to Plowshares 1 Dismantling Blow (I really want a high amount of Disenchant effects!, could be a regular Disenchant though. Another option would be Altar's Light to RFG stuff) 1 Disenchant 1 Orim's Thunder // Red 1 Magma Jet (It's ok, but not spectecular, might be better options) 1 Fanning the Flames (#1 Kill card) 1 Fireball 1 Glacial Ray 1 Flametongue Kavu // Black 1 Hideous Laughter 1 Horobi's Whisper 1 Soulless Revival 1 Skeletal Scrying 1 Rend Flesh (Exile into darkness??)// Blue 1 Exclude 1 Eerie Procession (oooh, a Tutor!) 1 Evermind (can be great, but sometimes rather useless) 1 Deep Analysis 1 Allied Strategies // Green 1 Hana Kami 1 Wear Away (amazing) 1 Kodama's Reach 1 Thornscape Battlemage 1 Eternal Witness (I want a Tribe Elder in here as well, but there's no room...)// Artifact 1 Fellwar Stone 1 Sensei's Divining Top 1 Phyrexian Furnace 1 Wayfarer's Bauble 1 Etched Oracle // Gold 1 Ordered Migration (#2 win condition) 1 Electrolyze 1 Lightning Helix 1 Mortify 1 Putrefy // Land 1 Rocky Tar Pit 1 Mountain Valley 1 Krosan Verge 2 Mountain 2 Island 2 Forest 2 Swamp 2 Plains 1 Mishra's Factory 1 Wasteland 1 Izzet Boilerworks 1 Orzhov Basilica 1 Golgari Rot Farm 1 Dimir Aqueduct 1 Mirrodin's Core 1 Gemstone Mine 1 Grasslands 1 Flood Plain 1 Bad River 1 Quicksand 1 Maze of Ith The manabase can be a bit shaky, but when the deck gets going there's no stopping it. Maybe some of the gold cards could be removed to release some pressure on the mana-base, but I like how I fixed the colours with the golden cards. There's not really a weak card in there. The deck could also use 1 more card drawer (maybe an Artifact?) Using Dampen Thought for a kill is also an option. In some limited testing this list shows that it can deal very good with some Aggro and Aggro-Control strategies. Combo was kinda hard though, since Skullclamp is so hard to deal with. You really need to remove that thing from the game to deal with it. I haven't put any time in sideboards yet, there's still so many things in various maindecks for me to explore. But once again, enjoyable format! Koen
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« Last Edit: February 23, 2006, 06:25:00 pm by Thug »
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Hi-Val
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« Reply #71 on: February 23, 2006, 08:26:38 pm » |
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OMG, with a Splice deck you can run Elder Pine of Jukai, how INSNA.
I'll post my list up as soon as I have it finished.
Here it is:
// green 1 Elder Pine of Jukai 1 Hana Kami 1 Kodama's Reach 1 Wear Away 1 Haru-Onna 1 Sakura-Tribe Scout // red 1 Hearth Kami 1 Yuki-Onna 1 Firebolt 1 Fanning the Flames 1 Fireball 1 Glacial Ray // white 1 Nikko-Onna 1 Spiritual Visit 1 Swords to Plowshares 1 Candles' Glow 1 Ethereal Haze // blue 1 Peer Through Depths 1 Consuming Vortex 1 Evermind 1 Annex 1 Eerie Procession // black 1 Exile into Darkness 1 Diabolic Tutor 1 Horobi's Whisper 1 Death Denied 1 Hideous Laughter 1 Soulless Revival // artifact 1 Granite Shard 1 Wayfarer's Bauble 1 Isochron Scepter 1 Sensei's Divining Top 1 Etched Oracle 1 Fellwar Stone // gold 1 Reviving Vapors 1 Ordered Migration // land 2 Swamp 2 Island 2 Mountain 2 Forest 2 Plains 1 Wasteland 1 Gemstone Mine 1 Dimir Aqueduct 1 Gruul Turf 1 Selesnya Sanctuary 1 Golgari Rot Farm 1 Boros Garrison 1 Izzet Boilerworks 1 Orzhov Basilica 1 Barbarian Ring 1 Cabal Pit 1 Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree 1 Terminal Moraine 1 Krosan Verge
I liked goldfishing it; Exile is particularly crazy because it provides a splice venue all the time. I ran Scout because I end up with a lot of land in hand and I want to play it, especially with guildlands or Elder Pine. However, I found that the deck has a poor splice finisher outside of Glacial Ray + lots of Spirit tokens beatdown.
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« Last Edit: February 23, 2006, 10:00:34 pm by Hi-Val »
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« Reply #72 on: February 24, 2006, 01:18:15 pm » |
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If you like Annex, why not try [card]Conquer[/card]?
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http://www.goodgamery.com/pmo/c025.GIF---------------------- SpenceForHire2k7: Its unessisary SpenceForHire2k7: only spelled right SpenceForHire2k7: <= world english teach evar ---------------------- noitcelfeRmaeT {Team Hindsight}
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Thug
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« Reply #73 on: February 24, 2006, 02:50:35 pm » |
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Exile is particularly crazy because it provides a splice venue all the time Is there something wrong with Apprentice or am I right that Exile is not an arcane spell? Do you like Elder Pine, I build my deck with as little creatures as possible so that opponent have lots of dead cards (no enchantments either). Isochron seams kinda weak, every deck is packed with Artifact removal, and you hardly have any real bombs to put on it. I missed the Terminal Moraine, need to put that in some of my decks, good call! If you like Annex, why not try Conquer? If this applied to the LD deck: Red is filled with amazing LD, one of the great things about Annex is that it's blue. Koen
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Philatio
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« Reply #74 on: February 24, 2006, 04:39:49 pm » |
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Exile is particularly crazy because it provides a splice venue all the time Is there something wrong with Apprentice or am I right that Exile is not an arcane spell? Do you like Elder Pine, I build my deck with as little creatures as possible so that opponent have lots of dead cards (no enchantments either). Isochron seams kinda weak, every deck is packed with Artifact removal, and you hardly have any real bombs to put on it. I missed the Terminal Moraine, need to put that in some of my decks, good call! Koen I think he means Exile into Darkness. Exile would be amazing and all, but alas, it's rare anyhow. I have run chastize in decks though, and it is a huge tempo swing against "big aggro" (as opposed to weenie aggro obviously). Just on the topic of artifact hate in general, my feeling has always been that I like it there, but hell, there is no reason to overdo it. I mean, unless someone is running artifact lands (possible but rare), no one is running more than 6 (or i guess 7) of them. Things like Keldon Vandals or Oxidize are just too often dead. Sure, I run naturalize/disenchant varients a lot, but if anything for the fact that they nail multiple types of perms. For land D decks, I really like Simon's use of Slow Motion - god it is so annoying. And I think rhystic things (even the mediocre cave) suddenly become better - I think rhystic study being the best. I mean if you want to be a complete ass, have you considered suppression field? i know it hits some of your stuff, but it seems like it can just cripple people, especially since it nails fetch effects so well for lands and the like. but sometimes the plan fails and the guy hits that third land for kodama's reach or something, and then you feel like you want to be sitting behind propaganda or ghostly prison or something.
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Philatio
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« Reply #75 on: February 24, 2006, 04:46:19 pm » |
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You know, since there has been so much activity on this thread as of late, I am wondering if maybe we should try to set up a time or something to maybe meet up on MWS in a chatroom and do some sort of ad hoc tourney, or even just someplace we can test these decks and such. I've only used that program to just look for strangers for random games, but does it support something like that where a group of people can meet in one place and just propose games to one another or something?
I personally have been away from building new decks for a while and wouldn't mind getting started again. And so many people have posted solid ideas I want to play with, but I guess more so AGAINST, since one thing that's cool about this format is that people tend to play their own decks their own way.
Simon mentioned there's a skittles side event at the T1 tourney he is holding in Princeton NJ, but I think something online could happen before or after then. I suppose we could make it a one time thing at first, but if people prefered the idea, we could maybe make it a regular thing? So far my metagame has consisted of Simon, myself, Harriet and a few other people who come in and out of the format (Ultima built some solid decks to infuse us with some new competition not too long ago), but the idea of something more varied certainly sounds appealing to me.
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« Reply #76 on: February 24, 2006, 05:46:53 pm » |
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I've been having a lot of fun playing a few MWS games against Kowal and others, but I suspect an IRC channel or the like would suffer from not quite enough people ever being on to make it worthwhile, and would make it tougher to get new people interested. I think we should just use #themanadrain on EFnet to meet up and play whenever.
Also, if people insist on playing these crazy splice control decks, I'm going to have to break down and run a Nightmare Void in my board. That makes me want an r/g card, though, so I can board out Shambling Shell and Spontaneous Combustion, instead of Gravedigger. I may have to cut some of my cute SB cards.
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« Reply #77 on: February 24, 2006, 06:05:27 pm » |
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I tried tinkering with Koen's LD deck and my version of it. Both are adorable when they work, but the problem I am finding is that every skittles deck runs like infy mana fixing and development spells, so you never really get a good chance to stunt somebody.
Or it could just be that both myself and Jacob have enormous bone for green cards that say "get lands"
I'm gonna try a couple other new things. I'm not a big fan of control decks in this format since most of the solid card advantage spells are men anyway, and I want to take advantage of that. Similarly I'm noticing all the problem artifacts are either equipment, etched oracle, or sensei's divining top, all of which work nicely in an aggro build.
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« Reply #78 on: February 24, 2006, 08:35:44 pm » |
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It's so sad that Exhaustion was printed as a rare in P3K, I like Time Walk a lot : \
I need to look at Nightmare Void myself, it looks crazy delicious. Also, Exile Into Darkness isn't arcane either, so no spliceys : ( There's Death of 1000 Stings but it is ass. I feel like the early turns are slow enough that if you have 1-2 removal spells or threats, then you hit enough mana to make ExileID really powerful as a recursive device.
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« Reply #79 on: February 24, 2006, 10:18:23 pm » |
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Here's my newest toy. This is the aggro deck I've been playing against Jacob. It's been revised like ten or twelve times since this hour tuesday night.
BLUE Control Magic Ninja of the Deep Hours Trinket Mage Aquamoeba
BLACK Tendrils of Agony Phyrexian Reclamation (best card in the deck) Nezumi Gamerobber Bog Wraith Bone Shredder
RED Spikeshot Goblin Lightning Bolt Thunderscape Battlemage Flametongue Kavu Fire Imp
GREEN Kodama's Reach Sakura-Tribe Elder Yavimaya Elder Thornscape Battlemage Rancor
WHITE Taj-Nar Swordsmith Kami of Ancient Law Nagao, Bound by Honor
GOLD Lightning Helix Goblin Legionnaire Selesnya Guildmage Tempest Drake Psychatog Moroii Ordered Migration Armadillo Cloak
ARTIFACT Bonersplitter Skullclamp Mask of Memory Darksteel Ingot Aether Vial Etched Oracle
LANDS Island Snow-Covered Island Forest Snow-Covered Forest Mountain Snow-Covered Mountain Plains Snow-Covered Plains Swamp Snow-Covered Swamp Pendelhaven Mishra's Factory Treetop Village Quicksand Krosan Verge Terminal Moraine Gemstone Mine Mirrodin's Core Nantuko Monastary Vitu-Ghazi, The City Tree Orlove Basilica Izzet Boilerworks Golgari Rot Farm Dimir Aqueduct
The Tendrils was originally Erg Raiders, and will probably become that again. I just have a total boner for effects that hurt my opponent without using the combat step, and coincidentally give me life back. Phyrexian Reclamation is the savagest card to ever see print by the way. The mana has been working really nicely too. I'm pretty happy with it so far. I need to obtain foil guild lands though.
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« Last Edit: February 24, 2006, 10:25:40 pm by Kowal »
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Anusien
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« Reply #80 on: February 24, 2006, 10:37:11 pm » |
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I have an extreme fascination with Astral Slide. Here's my slide list for Skittles. I've played all of one game, where I had everything imaginable versus Kowal and still lost because he had Guildmage, Reclamation and Legionnaire:
Artifact: Darksteel Ingot Sensei's Divining Top Wayfarer's Bauble Fellwar Stone Etched Oracle Crystal Shard
Black: Honden of Night's Reach Shred Memory Phyrexian Reclamation Dimir Machinations Nekrataal Dimir Guildmage Dimir Infiltrator
Green: Wall of Blossoms Eternal Witness Uktabi Orangutan Thornscape Battlemage Sakura-Tribe Elder Krosan Tusker
Red: Lightning Rift Flametongue Kavu Honden of Infinite Rage Slice and Dice Scrap Magma Jet
Blue: Dimir Guildmage Dimir Infiltrator Exclude Annex Drift of Phantasms Condescend Complicate
White: Orim's Thunder Clear Astral Slide Auramancer Honden of Cleansing Fire Renewed Faith
Land: Snow-Covered Island Tranquil Thicket Plains Forest Mountain Swamp Snow-Covered Forest Smoldering Crater Snow-Covered Mountain Snow-Covered Plains Snow-Covered Swamp Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree Dimir Aqueduct Gemstone Mine Lonely Sandbar Island Drifting Meadow Barren Moor Blasted Landscape Forgotten Cave Slippery Karst Polluted Mire Remote Isle Secluded Steppe
The mana is awful. The transmute cards except for infiltrator are UU or BB. Perplex was suggested, and I have no idea where to fit it. I need really good 2 mana and 3 mana removal. I kept running into situations against Kowal where I could do sick tutor chains, but at the end of it I couldn't stop men from bashing me in the face. This deck really feels the loss of StP. I'm considering it over Clear.
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Matt
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« Reply #81 on: February 25, 2006, 12:44:33 am » |
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I threw together Hi-Val's aggro deck and stole someone's manabase to play against Spencer's land destruction/control deck today.
Changes: Flesh Reaver became Daggerclaw Imp Werebear has been pretty shitty, I need to find something better. Mongrel wasn't amazing either, I think Basking Rootwalla would be better. Fliers were AWESOME, Sea Drake and Moroii are top-notch No Rest For The Wicked sat dead in hand an awful lot Granite Shard was ass and I dropped it for Wayfarer's Bauble
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http://www.goodgamery.com/pmo/c025.GIF---------------------- SpenceForHire2k7: Its unessisary SpenceForHire2k7: only spelled right SpenceForHire2k7: <= world english teach evar ---------------------- noitcelfeRmaeT {Team Hindsight}
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Kowal
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« Reply #82 on: February 25, 2006, 10:30:17 am » |
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As a rule I stay away from things that only ping for one. Granite Shard and tims are right out, but effects like Goblin Legionnaire and Fire Imp are pretty tight.
I would expect effects like Flesh Reaver would hurt you a lot, given that you can't really guarantee your hand is more aggro than the control player running a bunch of battlemages and 187 men.
I can understand Werebear being bad, but it's not what I would have assumed. Is it just trouble reaching Threshold? I seem to reach it pretty regularly by turn 4 or so, but I also run Skullclamp, Mask of Memory, Etched Oracle, Psychatog, and Aquamoeba, so maybe that's the only reason why.
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Matt
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« Reply #83 on: February 25, 2006, 03:02:54 pm » |
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Yes, threshold is difficult.
I would stay away from most tims but Fireslinger is badass, since he is cheap and so easy on the mana.
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http://www.goodgamery.com/pmo/c025.GIF---------------------- SpenceForHire2k7: Its unessisary SpenceForHire2k7: only spelled right SpenceForHire2k7: <= world english teach evar ---------------------- noitcelfeRmaeT {Team Hindsight}
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #84 on: February 25, 2006, 10:53:57 pm » |
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Anusien: you should really run Diabolic Tutor over one of your black transmute cards. You also need more CIP for some kind of card creatures, like Cartographer to work with all your cycling lands.
Steam Blast is solid removal, although I would definitely switch your focus to 3 and 4 mana transmutes, instead of 2 and 3, because you can turn 3 transmute, say, Clutch of the Undercity into your turn 4 drop, but not so much with Dimir Infiltrator. 4 mana lets you run really solid answers to stuff, like Radiant's Dragoons, FTK, gravedigger (which you should run), etc. All you can get for 2 mana is Lightning Rift, which you can just Diabolic Tutor for if you really need it.
Something like -infiltrator -shred +diabolic +perplex, then cut whatever for gravedigger and all that.
Doug's list is missing Civic Wayfinder for no reason. Also, Moldervine Cloak in green would be pretty hot, esp w/fliers.
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« Last Edit: February 25, 2006, 11:01:09 pm by Jacob Orlove »
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Team Meandeck: O Lord, Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile. To those who slander me, let me give no heed. May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
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Kowal
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« Reply #85 on: February 25, 2006, 11:15:34 pm » |
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I made the startling realization that Psionic Blast is legal. So I cut Control Magic. Suck it, double mana costs.
Tendrils earned its keep a couple times over since I said I would cut it, so it's not going anywhere. It's just a shame that there are still two cards in my deck that require two identical specific manas.
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Thug
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« Reply #86 on: February 26, 2006, 06:04:24 am » |
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There are too much reasons to run a control deck in this format: Bad mana-bases, control decks often are more forgiving. Because of the bad mana-bases aggro decks tends to be pretty slow, giving control the time to fix their mana base first. Amazing card-advantage options, right now I have these cards in my deck to provide card advantage: Krosan Verge (Firebolt) Deep Analysis Orim's Thunder Horobi's Whisper Electrotyse Flametongue Explosive Vegetation Skeletal Scrying Fanning the Flames Soulless Revival (Hana Kami) Wear Away Eternal Wintess Hideous Laughter Glavial Ray Allied Strategies Etched Oracle Concentrate Kodama's Reach Fireball All these cards are able to create card advantage. The rest of the deck is removal, more mana fixing and some finishers. I build an aggro deck that was as aggresive as possible and was able to handle it with my control deck after some slight modifications (Sun Droplet is sick!!) Most of the deck posted here are aggro-control, and basicly very slow deck when paired against a control deck. This will probably upset some people, but I think most of these are almost byes for a well build control deck pre sideboard. I think these decks should try to incorperate more disruption (Ghost-Lit Stalker is pretty decent for recursive decks) --- For any decks having mana problems (mainly aggresive strategies, or ones with heavy gold cards) take a look at Mana Cyclix it's amazing. I'm waiting for someone to post a deck that posed a real threat to a control deck, see this as a challenge  Koen
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-Most People Believe Magic Is Only A Trick. Why Change Their Minds??- (Sleight Of Hand)
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #87 on: February 26, 2006, 02:53:26 pm » |
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Heh, my deck is secretly a control deck too, I just run lots of creatures because they're good and they allow for amazing recursion.
Here's my card advantage stuff:
Eternal Witness Yavimaya Elder Thornscape Battlemage Civic Wayfinder Phyrexian Reclamation Haunted Crossroads Gravedigger (Ray of Command) Trinket Mage (Exclude) (Flametongue Kavu) (Fire Imp) Avalanche Riders Thunderscape Battlemage Orim's Thunder Seed Spark Skullclamp Etched Oracle Crystal Shard (Infused Arrows) Selesnya Guildmage (Spontaneous Combustion) Dimir Guildmage Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree
All the guild lands count: Boros Garrison Gruul Turf Dimir Aqueduct Izzet Boilerworks Orzhov Basilica Golgari Rot Farm Selesnya Sanctuary
Finally, my tutors, because they set up insane stuff: Perplex Clutch of the Undercity Drift of Phantasms
I'm not a huge fan of simple card drawing in this format (stuff like Deep Analysis or Allied Strategies), because you tend to draw more lands than you need (thanks to Guild Lands and mana fetching, you usually have more than enough anyway). I prefer recursion and tutoring because it gives me much more control over what I get--a deep analysis could yield one decent card out of the four you draw, while a transmute or regrowth effect gives me much more control over what I get.
I will admit that my current build is heavily biased against more aggressive strategies--the six cards in (brackets) are only advantageous against decks with enough creatures. Your build runs a few of the best creatures, so they're not totally dead, but they're not really optimal, especially with my other removal too. However, all those cards have been crucial in beating the creature-based decks everyone else insists on playing. I really want to test against a much more focused control deck, and against that clamp combo build.
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Team Meandeck: O Lord, Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile. To those who slander me, let me give no heed. May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
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Thug
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« Reply #88 on: February 26, 2006, 04:09:16 pm » |
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Maybe the main card advantage of my control deck is that it runs zero enchantments and only creature that will do their job, removal or not: (Sakura, Witness, FtK, Etched Oracle, Bone Schredder). This gives the deck such an huge advantage to start with. The problem I have with creature based strategies is that there are too many cheap answers. You often spend 2/3 mana on a creature, and need to infest more to make it useful, while a Firebolt/Swords/Horobi's can take it out for almost nothing. --- I almost succeeded in my own challenge: building a deck that beats the control deck But I think the deck I'm working with will lose too anything with some beatdown  Koen
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Kowal
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« Reply #89 on: February 26, 2006, 08:54:36 pm » |
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Goblin Legionnaire is where like half of my kills come from. He's insanely super hot.
That is all for now.
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