Skittles

[Cross]

If you're running like 23/24 lands, sak elder, reach and fellwar stone, mana screw should not be a big issue. If anything you draw too much land, hence the reason to run cycling lands.

Getting your karoo wasted is big setback, but its not impossible to recover from.

[Anusien]

Cycling lands are incredibly awesome with bouncelands, and they don't really destabalize your manabase; I've built a deck with all 11 cycling lands and it was still a good manabase.

Anyway, yeah, I'm only using LD as a tempo tool, although occasionally it's been really good to cut off a color (especially in combination with Memory Lapse or Remand).  I'm always just a few creatures away from being able to support Razing Snidd, and that would be a nasty creature.  And I'm going to test using all 10 bouncelands, since they're just that good.  Also, my mana is that crazy.

I don't play (but know of)
Razing Snidd
Befoul
Dwarven Miner
Dwarven Blastminer
Solfatara (and its clones)
Orcish Settler

My List
Ark of Blight
Wayfarer's Bauble
Icy Manipulator
Fellwar Stone
Skullclamp
Etched Oracle

Stream of Acid
Nightscape Battlemage
Twisted Abomination
Trench Wurm

Eternal Witness
Kodama's Reach
Thornscape Battlemage
Reap and Sow
Civic Wayfinder

Plague Spores
Moroii
Wrecking Ball
Fumarole
Temporal Spring
Frenzied Tilling

Snow-Covered Forest
Island
Golgari Rot Farm
Simic Growth Chamber
Snow-Covered Swamp
Selesnya Sanctuary
Wasteland
Snow-Covered Plains
Snow-Covered Island
Mountain
Forest
Dimir Aqueduct
Gemstone Mine
Boros Garrison
Swamp
Rakdos Carnarium
Snow-Covered Mountain
Mirrodin's Core
Ancient Tomb
Orzhov Basilica
Plains
Azorius Chancery
Gruul Turf
Izzet Boilerworks

Ogre Arsonist
Avalanche Riders
Ravaging Horde
Goblin Settler

Memory Lapse
Exclude
Remand
Trinket Mage
Aven Fogbringer

Faith's Fetters
Swords to Plowshares
Orim's Thunder
Benalish Emissary
Dismantling Blow
Nagao, Bound by Honor

[EnialisLiadon]

What are people's opinions on Propaganda and/or Ghostly prison?  I run both in my deck, along with Sterling Grove to protect them (and other enchantments) and to search for them (again, and other enchantments).  I find that they can halt attacks if they want to cast spells, or stem their development if they want to attack.  They could even be beneficial in a LD build, as you're attacking their mana.

[Jacob Orlove]

Enchantment heavy builds can take advantage of some pretty powerful cards, like Crystal Chimes. I'd definitely run the Honden set, though.

Propaganda and Prison are both very solid if you're concerned about a lot of creatures attacking you. Most of the aggro decks I've seen focus more on enhancing slightly larger creatures, because it's much easier to have the color you need by turn 3-4 than by turn 1-2, and it's much more efficient to use Moldervine Cloak or the like rather than risk committing a bunch of creatures to the board (I had to cut Ray of Command from my list because of this). I wonder how often Propaganda is really going to be better than Slow Motion.

[Philatio]

What are people's opinions on Propaganda and/or Ghostly prison?  I run both in my deck, along with Sterling Grove to protect them (and other enchantments) and to search for them (again, and other enchantments).  I find that they can halt attacks if they want to cast spells, or stem their development if they want to attack.  They could even be beneficial in a LD build, as you're attacking their mana.

In our meta manlands are pretty common.  Propaganda and Prison really rip them a new hole.  Other than that, it they don't seem too great - sure, I'll pay 2 for my Juggernaught, or Moroii or Kavu or Etched Oracle, etc.  It sucks away some tempo since they can't attack with everything AND play another spell, but they have always struck me as a little sub-par.  But if you like them, War Tax is also playable.

[Ultima]

Propaganda and Prison are both very solid if you're concerned about a lot of creatures attacking you. Most of the aggro decks I've seen focus more on enhancing slightly larger creatures, because it's much easier to have the color you need by turn 3-4 than by turn 1-2, and it's much more efficient to use Moldervine Cloak or the like rather than risk committing a bunch of creatures to the board (I had to cut Ray of Command from my list because of this). I wonder how often Propaganda is really going to be better than Slow Motion.

Propaganda keeps you alive, while Slow Motion doesn't do much at all vs things like a Witness/Reclamation Engine (None of them do anything for crystal shard either...)

[Jacob Orlove]

Both are really weak against engines, because if they have Witness-reclamation going, they can probably just find a disenchant effect if Propaganda is really slowing them down.

Honestly, I just don't see how people could have room for either card, but Slow Motion has been much stronger against me than Propaganda ever was.

[EnialisLiadon]

Yeah, my eyes were opened.  I have since cut them for better cards--Azorious Herald and Trinket Mage.  I also cut Wayfarer;s Bauble for Aether Vial.

[Cross]

The azorious guildmage seems better than propaganda. As it combos better with tog, and his stifle ability is handy against oracle.

I've really come to be a fan of belfry spirit, as comboing it with skullclamp is insane. On top of flying and haunt abilities its tokens have flying too.

[Hi-Val]

If you want Propaganda effects, then War Tax is unbeatable. It basically shuts down aggro when you have a mana parity. There's also that Domain Propaganda.

[Philatio]

If you want Propaganda effects, then War Tax is unbeatable. It basically shuts down aggro when you have a mana parity. There's also that Domain Propaganda.

Collective Restraint would be the shit, except it is rare.

War Tax is also pretty good in multiplayer, as an off-topic comment.

I'm psyched for the skittles tourney in princeton tomorrow - it's a side event at the time-walk 10 proxy type 1 event here.  Hopefully some people will show and I'll be able to get people to write down some decklists this time.

[Jacob Orlove]

Ooh, I just noticed something interesting. You can run Transguild Courier if you want a 37th card, because it is exactly 1/6th each color and artifact.

[Cross]

You can....but why?

[Jacob Orlove]

It's not a very good card, but I have worked on aggressive decks that would rather see the Courier than another land. 24 used to be a completely fixed number (unless you wanted to drop to 18 or go over 60 cards). It's just nice that we have a little flexibility.

[Chill79]

Here's my list at being:

Lands:
Krosan Verge
Rakdos Carnarium
Azorius Chancery
Simic Growth Chamber
Gruul Turf
Barren Moor
Lonely Sandbar
Forgotten Cave
Tranquil Thicket
Secluted Steppe
Mirrodin's Core
Treetop Village
Stalking Stones
Snow-Covered Island
Snow-Covered Mountain
Snow-Covered Plains
Snow-Covered Forest
Forest
Plains
Island
Mountain
Swamp

Artifact:
Etched Oracle
Wayfarer's Bauble
Skullclamp
Scrabbling Claws
Crystal Shards
Chromatic Sphere
Darksteel Gargoyle

Black:
Okiba-Gang Shinobi
Last Gasp
Seal of Doom
Twisted Abomination
Phyrexian Rager


Blue:
Honden of Seeing Wind
Deep Analysis
Ninja of the Deep Hours
Rushing River
Trinket Mage

Green:
Kodama's Reach
Civic Wayfinder
Wild Mongrel
Moment's Peace
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Nantuko Vigilante
Heart Warden

Red:
Barbed Lightning
Threaten
Ancient Hydra
Carbonize
Tin Street Hooligan
Yamabushi's Flame

White:
Teroh's Faithful
Genju of the Fields
Fait's Fetters
Kami of the Ancient Law
Swords to Plowshares
Coalition Honor Guard

Gold:
Wrecking Ball
Psychatog

Hybrid:
Azorius Guildmage

[Jacob Orlove]

Your card counts are off. Gold cards don't count as a full card of each color, they count as half of each (eg Tog is 0.5 blue cards and 0.5 black cards). Here are your current numbers:

Artifact: 7
Green: 7
Red: 6.5
White: 6.5
Black: 6
Blue: 6

[Philatio]

     There are some choices you have listed where there are other cards available that are strictly better.  Like in Type 1, you usually just want to play the best of what's available.

     For example, scrabbling claws is a worse phyrexian furnace.  Last Gasp is a worse Terror in most cases (me, I like Rend Flesh for the extra mana or Chainer's Edict for flashback).  Barbed Lightning and some of your other burn could be Lightning Bolt and/or Incinerate, although I see the advantages of the RFG spells like carbonize and Yamabushi's Flame.  Firebolt has flashback, though, which works with mongrel and 'tog.

     Jacob already mentioned the thing about colors to you.  In fixing them, with all of the comes into play creatures you have, you might consider Angelic Shield in a U/W slot.  Aether spellbomb comes to mind.  As does waterfront bouncer, since it also has synergy with the couple of flashback cards you run.

Here's my list at being:

Lands:
Krosan Verge
Rakdos Carnarium
Azorius Chancery
Simic Growth Chamber
Gruul Turf
Barren Moor
Lonely Sandbar
Forgotten Cave
Tranquil Thicket
Secluted Steppe
Mirrodin's Core
Treetop Village
Stalking Stones
Snow-Covered Island
Snow-Covered Mountain
Snow-Covered Plains
Snow-Covered Forest
Forest
Plains
Island
Mountain
Swamp

Artifact:
Etched Oracle
Wayfarer's Bauble
Skullclamp
Scrabbling Claws
Crystal Shards
Chromatic Sphere
Darksteel Gargoyle

Black:
Okiba-Gang Shinobi
Last Gasp
Seal of Doom
Twisted Abomination
Phyrexian Rager


Blue:
Honden of Seeing Wind
Deep Analysis
Ninja of the Deep Hours
Rushing River
Trinket Mage

Green:
Kodama's Reach
Civic Wayfinder
Wild Mongrel
Moment's Peace
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Nantuko Vigilante
Heart Warden

Red:
Barbed Lightning
Threaten
Ancient Hydra
Carbonize
Tin Street Hooligan
Yamabushi's Flame

White:
Teroh's Faithful
Genju of the Fields
Fait's Fetters
Kami of the Ancient Law
Swords to Plowshares
Coalition Honor Guard

Gold:
Wrecking Ball
Psychatog

Hybrid:
Azorius Guildmage

[Cross]

Azorius guildmage is way better than i thought it would be, especially since I switched over to tog as a win condition.

[EnialisLiadon]

I'm currently testing Crypt Champion in my build.  I'm not fond of his symmety, but I must say I'm impressed so far.  He's a savage beater that also recurs threats.  I also want to test Azorious Guildmage.

How is tog as a win condition?  I'm not sure how good it'd be in my deck--my graveyard doesn't fill up enough to make tog lethal very often...

[Cross]

tog wins games. but i find more and more the best strategy as long as youre not playing against land-d is to just stall until you rip fireball.

[unknown.root]

this format is crazy, but i love it. currently i'm working on a enchantment heavy build, has anyone else had much success with it outside of the Honden route?

once i have a final decklist i will post it there still is a lot of cards i need to get like FTK.

Kevin

[EnialisLiadon]

One of my first decks run Propaganda and Ghostly Prison, along with stuff like Haunted Crossraods, Sterling Grove and Armadillo Cloak.

Since then, I've cut the two propagnadas and the Sterling Grove for more threats.  However, I'm sure a decent enchantment-themed/based deck could be made...which may start people to pack more Disenchant effects for you.

[Jacob Orlove]

but i find more and more the best strategy as long as youre not playing against land-d is to just stall until you rip fireball.

This is why I was running Radiant's Dragoons (now Azorius Herald, Dragoons are in the board). Between Crystal Shard, Phyrexian Reclamation, and Haunted Crossorads, I can usually start reliable recursion of something, and if it's not Avalanche Riders, lifegain is generally the safest option.

[Nomad]

This is why I was running Radiant's Dragoons (now Azorius Herald, Dragoons are in the board). Between Crystal Shard, Phyrexian Reclamation, and Haunted Crossorads, I can usually start reliable recursion of something, and if it's not Avalanche Riders, lifegain is generally the safest option.

But you don't run a Fireball either do you?  Or has Supply made its way in?  Basically, once you have something to abuse in this manner a win condition isn't really neccessary, attrition will do its work...

[Jacob Orlove]

Yeah, I don't run Fireball, because I'd rather have Firebolt in the early game, and by the late game, I have plenty of stuff to work with. I was just saying that if a Skittles deck has no lifegain capabilities, then it'll be very vulnerable to lategame burn.

[ashiXIII]

Life/Death is the tech.

[Jacob Orlove]

I'm having a hard time fitting Life/Death into my sideboard. Also, bouncelands make it not quite as good as Fireball for direct damage.

[ashiXIII]

I'm having a hard time fitting Life/Death into my sideboard. Also, bouncelands make it not quite as good as Fireball for direct damage.

This is true, but Life/Death becomes good much earlier in the game than Fireball does. It's great as a win condition, but the reason it's really good is because it allows you to bring back a dead creature. I can't count the number of times I've played a Witness, traded with something, Deathed it back, and brought back the Life/Death. Similiar tricks worth with FTK, Nekrataal, Etched Oracle, Trinket Mage, etc, although Witness is clearly the best. It also acts as protection for a creature when you have a Crystal Shard engine going.

[Philatio]

Life/Death is the tech.

I tested it briefly in my skullclamp combo deck a while ago - turning all of your lands into clamp fodder is ill nasty.  But alas, it didn't pull its weight and got cut again.

[Jacob Orlove]

I'm having a hard time fitting Life/Death into my sideboard. Also, bouncelands make it not quite as good as Fireball for direct damage.

This is true, but Life/Death becomes good much earlier in the game than Fireball does. It's great as a win condition, but the reason it's really good is because it allows you to bring back a dead creature. I can't count the number of times I've played a Witness, traded with something, Deathed it back, and brought back the Life/Death. Similiar tricks worth with FTK, Nekrataal, Etched Oracle, Trinket Mage, etc, although Witness is clearly the best. It also acts as protection for a creature when you have a Crystal Shard engine going.

Right, but that effect is seriously redundant in my list. Between Witness, Gravedigger, Crossroads, Reclamation, and three transmute spells, I can't afford to run cards that are primarily single use recursion. Fireball can at least trade with a couple creatures at ~6 mana, but I'd rather just have Firebolt there.