Bazaar Oath

[UniversalSnip]

As a competative player who's rarely really interested in t1, I tend to mess around with long-dismissed concepts like Replenish whenever I do start building. I don't have the experience to fine-tune the best decks as I'd be doing in other formats, so my only chance is to throw out something radically different and hope it catches people off-guard.

Here's the list I'd arrived at after seven total games played:

// Lands
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Bazaar of Baghdad
    4 Tundra
    1 Island
    1 Strip Mine
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Tolarian Academy

// Creatures
    4 Squee, Goblin Nabob

// Spells
    4 Mana Drain
    4 Force of Will
    4 Replenish
    3 Seal of Cleansing
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Balance
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Form of the Dragon
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Time Walk
    1 Sol Ring
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Intuition
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Crop Rotation
    1 Solitary Confinement
    1 Gaea's Blessing

// Sideboard
SB: 3 Ray of Revelation
SB: 1 Darkblast
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
SB: 1 Forbidden Orchard
SB: 2 Oath of Druids
SB: 3 Disrupt

The blessing was there A) because it seemed good. The graveyard is just an open hand in this format B) I wanted to support the oath sideboard plan.

At this point I realized what you all probably know: replenish sucks. It's a card-for-card swap with the oath kill, except it requires more setup and it's slower.

Hell, not only was I already sideboarding Oath, I'd even moved a piece of it maindeck. Why not bring in the rest of it and cut the replenish crap? Answer: Squee. Bazaar is awful without squee or uba or something else oath hates.

Or, it was until life from loam was printed.

// Lands
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Bazaar of Baghdad
    1 Tundra
    1 Strip Mine
    4 Forbidden Orchard
    4 Tropical Island
    1 Island

// Creatures
    1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
    1 Spirit of the Night

// Spells
    4 Mana Drain
    4 Force of Will
    3 Seal of Cleansing
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Time Walk
    1 Sol Ring
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Intuition
    1 Crop Rotation
    4 Life from the Loam
    4 Oath of Druids
    1 Gaea's Blessing

The manabase feels solid so far, but if it's horribly misbuilt for random.good.metagame, tell me*. I wouldn't know. I do suggest you play around with it a few times and get a feel for the land interactions, though. If you are a nervous person with a small penis and chronic ulcer problems, you have permission to run a "safety" riftstone portal.

*unless your suggestion starts with "-4 bazaar"

Is spirit or razia or hydra supposed to be better in oath? Pretend I ran whichever kicks the most ass.

The maindeck seals are a holdover from the replenish deck, which I should note crushed stax off them. They're obviously not nearly as synergetic now. Do they stay or go? Note I'm splashing white pretty much for them and enlightened tutor now. On the other hand, loam makes your manabase VERY resilient.

You can run a fourth intuition if you want one. Three is fine.

Loam is completely insane. Intuition for bazaar, strip, and loam should win you the game on the spot. You'll rock with pseudo-crucible lock.

What I've seen of oath is a combo-control deck with crappy draw. Pumping up your AK with a lucky oath is just gravy on an obselete, clunky, hopelessly unsynergetic engine. Oath is broken. Why shouldn't the rest of the deck be?

This is a small but valuable step forward in keeping oath on the cutting edge. I trust the competent hands of TMDers to move it the rest of the way, to smooth the path where I have stumbled, and generally to help refine the deck.

[Lunar]

This would be pretty fun with a conversion to Dragon out of the sideboard, heh...

Interesting idea really...maybe ill have to give it a few games of testing...

I like Razia better than SotN, but it can really be a toss up...hydra is more meta dependant really.

[Methuselahn]

Hi, I'm sorry, but to be frank, I don't see how adding Bazaar and Loam is a 'cutting edge' addition to Oath and Vintage.  In a deck that wants to poop out a 6/* on turn 2 and end the game 2 turns later, I just don't see the advantage of adding a psuedo crucible lock.  If you have played Oath and Oath up Akroma, isn't your main goal to protect it for a couple of turns and just not care about their board position like you would with a different kind of archetype, like stax or something?  

Bazaar/Loam is powerful and I'm sure it is powerful in this deck.  Just not powerful enough.  If I were to maximize this draw engine, I would seriously want to have Squees.  And, if I were to build an Oath deck, I would really want it to beat the mirror.  It doesn't look like this one would because your landkill just isn't fast enough.

[UniversalSnip]

Hi, I'm sorry, but to be frank, I don't see how adding Bazaar and Loam is a 'cutting edge' addition to Oath and Vintage.  In a deck that wants to poop out a 6/* on turn 2 and end the game 2 turns later, I just don't see the advantage of adding a psuedo crucible lock.  If you have played Oath and Oath up Akroma, isn't your main goal to protect it for a couple of turns and just not care about their board position like you would with a different kind of archetype, like stax or something?  

Bazaar/Loam is powerful and I'm sure it is powerful in this deck.  Just not powerful enough.  If I were to maximize this draw engine, I would seriously want to have Squees.  And, if I were to build an Oath deck, I would really want it to beat the mirror.  It doesn't look like this one would because your landkill just isn't fast enough.

If you'll kindly refrain from crucifying me for posting this aim convo, I think you'll find some food for thought in it. I did.

EDIT: I'm bogr42. Don't ask.

[20:10] pipwizo: loam itself is nearly useless early on too
[20:10] bogr42: it's a hell of a lot better than squee
[20:10] pipwizo: a valid point
[20:10] pipwizo: sorta
[20:11] bogr42: the only reason squee/bazaar isn't a valid oath strategy right now that is that, you know. they're creatures
[20:11] pipwizo: I just don't see any advantage over the other bazaar decks
[20:12] bogr42: you shouldn't be trying to. I think the question you ought to be asking
[20:12] bogr42: is whether it can perform better than normal oath
[20:12] pipwizo: is if it's better than anything else out there
[20:12] bogr42: with its asstacular ak engine
[20:12] pipwizo: ...
[20:12] pipwizo: the last time somebody played AK in oath
[20:12] pipwizo: was like january
[20:12] bogr42: What does it use these days?
[20:13] pipwizo: impulse/brainstorm/tfk/ sensei
[20:13] bogr42: so in other words it uses sexier versions of scroll rack
[20:13] pipwizo: lol
[20:13] bogr42: I think that's a Bad Thing
[20:14] pipwizo: just check out some of the modern listsd
[20:15] bogr42: Are the modern lists anything like the one I lost to BadStax with?
[20:15] bogr42: and then proceeded to lose to extended affinty?
[20:15] pipwizo: dunno
[20:15] bogr42: *affinity
[20:16] pipwizo: http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=14157
[20:16] bogr42: you were running the horrible build with suppression field and you kept kicking my ass remember?
[20:16] pipwizo: http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=14158
[20:16] pipwizo: didn't have supression field
[20:16] pipwizo: had root maze
[20:16] bogr42: ah yeah
[20:16] bogr42: I remember maze being in it
[20:17] bogr42: I'm probably mixing it up with the deck that took 131st place out of 140 people
[20:17] bogr42: kevin cron I think
[20:17] pipwizo: yeah
[20:18] pipwizo: the thing I really don't like about your list is your draw engines lack of immediacy
[20:19] bogr42: I think I see what you're getting at but clarify further
[20:19] pipwizo: you're restricted to 4 threats, while dragon has 6 or 7
[20:19] pipwizo: that's the best comarison I can make
[20:19] pipwizo: so bazaar is more effective there
[20:19] pipwizo: because it can dig very quickly to a threat
[20:19] bogr42: I again urge you to compare it to other oath decks rather than other bazaar decks
[20:20] pipwizo: I'm giving you reasons why the bazaar engine isn't effective here
[20:20] pipwizo: first thing I'd do with your list
[20:20] bogr42: it's better than bloody portent varients
[20:20] pipwizo: -3 seal
[20:20] bogr42: I mean that's just sad
[20:20] pipwizo: +3 duress
[20:21] bogr42: which means enlightened goes
[20:21] pipwizo: vamp
[20:21] bogr42: right
[20:21] pipwizo: I'd adjust your manabase to utilize choke too
[20:21] bogr42: I was thinking about choke and it's marvelous uses
[20:22] pipwizo: sarcasm?
[20:22] bogr42: not
[20:22] pipwizo: ok
[20:22] pipwizo: cause choke is the cats nuts
[20:22] bogr42: as opposed to the bee's leg joints
[20:23] pipwizo: I don't see what's so wrong with portent variants
[20:24] pipwizo: especially given your history in utilizing them
[20:24] pipwizo: you're perfectly aware of their effectiveness in high concentration
[20:24] bogr42: As much as I love my cantrips 'n shit
[20:24] bogr42: and you're right, I do have this huge fondness for them
[20:25] bogr42: which blinds me to simpler solutions sometimes
[20:25] bogr42: They're tutors
[20:25] bogr42: not draw
[20:25] pipwizo: well think of it like this
[20:25] bogr42: viva la difference
[20:25] pipwizo: instead of 4 bazaar and 4 loam
[20:25] pipwizo: you're running 8 cantrips
[20:26] pipwizo: instead of 4 cards that let you dig
[20:26] bogr42: mind you I'm already running brainstorm
[20:26] pipwizo: and 4 that enable CA creation
[20:26] pipwizo: you get 8 that dig
[20:26] pipwizo: I'm aware of that
[20:26] pipwizo: oath could give two shits about card advantage most of the time
[20:27] pipwizo: it only needs 1 card to resolve
[20:27] bogr42: because it's a combo-control deck
[20:27] pipwizo: most of the time the rest is just cake
[20:27] bogr42: they all are
[20:27] bogr42: that's the problem
[20:27] bogr42: if you want to take that logic to it's conclusion then gifts has little use for all it's draw paraphanlia because it only needs one card to resolve
[20:28] bogr42: *paraphanalia
[20:28] bogr42: (sp?)
[20:28] pipwizo: *coughMDGsuckscough*
[20:28] bogr42: mdg
[20:28] bogr42: :blank:
[20:28] pipwizo: the good gifts variants trade 1 for 1 or worse
[20:28] pipwizo: meandeck gifts
[20:29] bogr42: oh
[20:29] bogr42: shoulda caught that
[20:29] pipwizo: gifts did cut it's draw paraphernailia
[20:29] pipwizo: it went from 4 gifts, 4 scroll 4 brainstorm 1 fact 1 ancestral
[20:30] pipwizo: to 4 tfk 2 gifts 4 brainstorm 1 ancestral
[20:30] bogr42: so it cut six draw slots
[20:30] pipwizo: because it only needs 1 card to resolve
[20:30] bogr42: misd I'm assuming still sucks
[20:30] pipwizo: yep
[20:31] bogr42: what came in for the missing slots? Belcher I'm assuming, and... what?
[20:31] pipwizo: duress
[20:31] bogr42: gorilla shaman?
[20:31] pipwizo: pithing needle
[20:31] pipwizo: shaman
[20:31] pipwizo: a few still run 1 or 2 merchant scrolls
[20:32] pipwizo: but those are the minority
[20:32] bogr42: where was I
[20:32] bogr42: something occured to me
[20:32] bogr42: oh yeah
[20:32] bogr42: oath only has to resolve one card yes?
[20:32] pipwizo: yeah
[20:33] bogr42: Ok, tell me this
[20:33] bogr42: in normal oath, is intuition a must counter?
[20:33] pipwizo: normal oath =?
[20:34] bogr42: by normal I mean "other"
[20:34] pipwizo: they don't run intuition
[20:34] bogr42: let me put it this way
[20:34] bogr42: as it's much more apt
[20:34] pipwizo: in MD oath it depends on the situation
[20:35] bogr42: forget what I just said, what I meant was: Do they have support cards that are as powerful as intuition is in bazaar oath?
[20:35] pipwizo: chalice, choke, needle(sometimes)
[20:35] bogr42: md
[20:35] pipwizo: no one plays MD oath
[20:35] bogr42: I meant maindeck
[20:35] pipwizo: oh
[20:35] pipwizo: chalice, needle, tutors
[20:36] pipwizo: null rod
[20:36] pipwizo: TFK
[20:36] bogr42: intuition is like most of those wrapped into one card
[20:37] bogr42: letting intuition resolve is like letting curcible/strip AND thirst for knowledge resolve
[20:37] pipwizo: then how about you go to 1 loam and 1 bazaar
[20:37] bogr42: that's actually a really interesting idea
[20:37] pipwizo: hmm
[20:37] pipwizo: that is aninteresting idea
[20:38] bogr42: obv you'd go up to four intuitions
[20:38] pipwizo: or giftsd
[20:39] bogr42: Here's a thought dude
[20:40] bogr42: take gifts, go -red?, +green, +1 bazaar, loam, and strip
[20:40] pipwizo: mebbe
[20:40] bogr42: also regrowth to sort of make up for the loss of recoup
[20:40] bogr42: wish you can't really get around though
[20:40] pipwizo: hmm
[20:40] pipwizo: I'll look into this some more
[20:40] pipwizo: dunno if oath is the best shell for this

[nataz]

if you are going to run LFTL and intuition, you mind as well run some cycling lands also as a back up draw engine.

[UniversalSnip]

if you are going to run LFTL and intuition, you mind as well run some cycling lands also as a back up draw engine.

That doesn't make much sense to me. They're trash without a loam, and with it they're considerably worse than than bazaar.

In fact, the only reason I can think of to run 1+ cycling lands is needle. Not good enough.

// Lands
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Bazaar of Baghdad
    1 Strip Mine
    4 Forbidden Orchard
    4 Tropical Island
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Tolarian Academy

// Creatures
    1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
    1 Razia, Boros Archangel

// Spells
    4 Force of Will
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Time Walk
    1 Sol Ring
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Intuition
    1 Crop Rotation
    4 Life from the Loam
    4 Oath of Druids
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Rushing River
    4 Mana Leak
    1 Gaea's Blessing
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
    1 Demonic Tutor

I want a basic island md.

[Chamelet]

I think 4 LftL is just too much. I mean, you can't trigger more than one per draw right? So having more than 1 is just not that good. Of course you can draw with bazaar and then take the second and third ones from the grave, but that'll cost 6 mana to actually make that worth.
I mean, you said they're better than Squee, but Squee returns to hand for free (not costing you a draw). That is very different.
So you think it's better? Why 4 LftL?

[Dralock]

I think Chamelet has a point. Four LftL is a bad idea, because you don't HAVE to see it to win. In fact, I don't see why you would ever need more than two. BAM, two basic land slots.

[Brutha]

Where do you want to take your mana to play counterspells from?
You need to tap out for your Tap 3 Lands/Draw a Card combo.
You lack the manasources to do something with your cards. You need Fastbond and or Exploration to gain the full advantage of Life from the Loam.
That allows you to trade cards you draw into tempo by dropping a Wasteland for free in addition to your other plays each turn.

[Chamelet]

I mean I tested this engine in another shell, but I find it to be unworthy unless you're making the Bazaar discards into CA (like with Squee or Madness). Any other way you're paying 1G to draw 1 card (skip your draw, pay 1G to get 3 lands, use Bazaar to draw 2 and discard the 3 lands or anything useless = the 2 cards you draw with bazaar are the card you skipped drawing and an extra 1). This means it digs very little.
Another way of thinking is that every card in your graveyard is also CA. That's what I'm trying to do and I might post my results soon. My problem is that it's hard to build a deck with such a slow draw engine if you can just win.
Have you tried Scroll Rack with this?
And yes, CotV is the way to go.

[Zias]

My main issue with this deck is that fact that it can just oath up a Squee, making it slower than any other Oath deck at its aim. However, have you considered making this list into a Salvagers Oath list? You could keep the Bazaars and such just to be able to dig down into a Pyrite Spellbomb and the deck would be faster.

Life From the Loam is also a great way to fill up the grave yard if you do take this route- get the Lotus or Lion's Eye Diamond + Combo piece in the yard quickly but I think four is perhaps too heavy (as you said, you'd likely be Intuitioning for it, why draw more?), I would probably play one (again, if you use Intuition for it) at most and use the other slots for some type of cheap disruption, Duress seems like a good candidate.

Another issue with the deck I think might be Intuition itself, if you're playing four Bazaars then wouldn't getting to three mana be an issue?

Edit: My apologies, I entirely misread the post, the Oath list did not have Squees in it...

[Jacob Orlove]

My main issue with this deck is that fact that it can just oath up a Squee, making it slower than any other Oath deck at its aim.

His first list has Squee but not Oath, his current list has Oath but not Squee. What's the problem?

[UniversalSnip]

The strip "lock" seems to be largely irrelevent to the performance of the deck.

I think upping the synergy with fastbond/exploration as Brutha suggests is probably correct. (wastes will be forthcoming as soon as room is found)

On a side note, Small Gods kicks ass.

I'm convinced four loams is a neccessity. t1 players seem to have a really shaky grasp on the whole redundancy thing.

[Chamelet]

The strip "lock" seems to be largely irrelevent to the performance of the deck.

I think upping the synergy with fastbond/exploration as Brutha suggests is probably correct. (wastes will be forthcoming as soon as room is found)

On a side note, Small Gods kicks ass.

I'm convinced four loams is a neccessity. t1 players seem to have a really shaky grasp on the whole redundancy thing.

It's just because we don't need redundancy 'cause we have tutors. And also drawing a card that's dead in multiples equals losing a game.

[Mordred]

The strip "lock" seems to be largely irrelevent to the performance of the deck.

I think upping the synergy with fastbond/exploration as Brutha suggests is probably correct. (wastes will be forthcoming as soon as room is found)

On a side note, Small Gods kicks ass.

I'm convinced four loams is a neccessity. t1 players seem to have a really shaky grasp on the whole redundancy thing.

It's just because we don't need redundancy 'cause we have tutors. And also drawing a card that's dead in multiples equals losing a game.

I have to agree with Chamelet here.  Most of the 4 ofs ran in type one decks are cards that are *useful* no matter what.

It would also seem to me that running this engine in Oath is opening up yourself to a whole new realm of hate cards.

I'm happy you're enjoying this project deck, but just looking at the deck on paper, I'm willing to bet you get opening hands that don't need Bazaar, or LFTL to win...at all.  Like the same chances as I will be making love to a woman tonight...zero.

Another point I'd like to make is this; Oath's ability to run Ground Seal was a feature that always seemed to fair well for the deck.  And piss me off as a man who enjoys his Goblin Welders.  Why give that up for a 3rd rate draw engine?

I don't want to come across like I'm shooting you down here man.  Maybe I'm missing a piece of the puzzle myself, but it appears you're tring to fit a different exhaust system on a car that already runs perfect.

[Fantaman]

Olaz! Mhm I will change some cards on this list but I think that it's very difficult to make top8 with a replanish deck in the actual meta.
Some Germans guys told me that it's difficult to play planish-combo-deck at them tournaments.
In Italy anyone since 98 find courage to play a planish combo because it's toooo slow....!

A guy who've replied on this tread talk to play to cards that for me are a nice solution with the LOAM.... Fastbond and Exploration. Impressive with the Loam and Bazaars!!!

/ Lands
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Bazaar of Baghdad
    4 Tundra
    1 Island
    1 Strip Mine: YES it's a nice card with the loam and with the crop but I suppose that it can be replaced with an addition island ot another land like: Ancient Tomb for play Intuitions and Planish. Probably Needs Two ancient tomb this deck!
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Tolarian Academy

// Creatures
    4 Squee, Goblin Nabob

// Spells
    4 Mana Drain
    4 Force of Will
    4 Replenish
    3 Seal of Cleansing: WOAAAAAA you have a fulll meta of dragons and artifact in your town  ! Impressive tooo much 3 of them...! Try to put a DEEP ANALYSIS you will have another nice card in your graveyard....for: Bazaar, Loam, Intuition.
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Balance: It's difficult.... I prefer another life from the loam but without this card you don't have solutions for DSC and Aggro decks...so probably it's better Balance
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Form of the Dragon
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Time Walk
    1 Sol Ring
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Intuition
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Crop Rotation
    1 Solitary Confinement
    1 Gaea's Blessing: A fastbond it's Better! Put Gaea's blessing in side if you decide to play Oath on the side!!!

// Sideboard:
SB: 3 Ray of Revelation: Put one Misdirection or the third Oath of Druids more simple to do and intuition with 3 oath...!
SB: 1 Darkblast
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
SB: 1 Forbidden Orchard
SB: 2 Oath of Druids
SB: 3 Disrupt

See you byez!

Thanx all!

[PipOC]

Another point I'd like to make is this; Oath's ability to run Ground Seal was a feature that always seemed to fair well for the deck.  And piss me off as a man who enjoys his Goblin Welders.  Why give that up for a 3rd rate draw engine?

As I think there's only 1 card in the deck that *targets* the graveyard, you can still effectively run ground seal.

EDIT: Genius me, forget I ever posted that.

[UniversalSnip]

I stand by my statement t1 lists all too often do not fully incorporate the principles of redundency. Some things you don't want to be wasting tutors on.

Another point I'd like to make is this; Oath's ability to run Ground Seal was a feature that always seemed to fair well for the deck.  And piss me off as a man who enjoys his Goblin Welders.

I just had this aim conversation, actually.

Anon:  any ideas for oath long sideboard?
Anon:  6 open slots
Anon:  I'm thinking about putting ground seal on the board
Anon:  to fight dragon
Anon:  since I don't know what to expect
bogr42:  go for it
bogr42:  what do they side in vs you?
Anon:  5c brings in ray of rev
Anon:  if I win with oath game 1
bogr42:  as opposed to winning with tendrils
Anon:  yeah
Anon:  perhaps not the best idea then
bogr42:  and the other version?
Anon:  dunno
Anon:  I think UB  just concedes 2 and 3
bogr42:  then why are you siding in seal?

I don't want to come across like I'm shooting you down here man.  Maybe I'm missing a piece of the puzzle myself, but it appears you're tring to fit a different exhaust system on a car that already runs perfect.

I don't think it's particularly good either, but that's not the point. When I popped in to see how you innovative vintage folks were abusing Loam, I saw one thread about it.

It was a macey deck.

That's an absurdly low level of content about such a broken card.

This has inspired at least one other thread, and whatever I may think of that list, at least it's something. I am 100% sure members of meandeck are quietly working on a deck with loam. I suggest for once you don't sit back and let them do the innovating of the format.

If this thread and this deck have gotten people thinking about loam, it's serving its purpose.