results for beanie exchange : 11-27-05

[Juggernaut GO]

top 8 :

1st: Kyle Leith
2nd: Ray Robillard
3rd: Yokomoto
4th: Nate Pease
5th: Rich Meyst
6th: Dan GAGOOCH
7th: Keith Johnson
8th: Jaris wicklund


decklists:

Kyle leith:  3 land gamble belcher !

4 goblin charlbelcher
4 chromatic sphere
4 dark ritual
4 land grant
4 elvish spirit guide
4 tinder wall
2 living wish
2 gamble
3 goblin welders
1 taiga
1 bayou
1 tropical island
1 oxidize
1 yawgmoths will
1 windfall
1 ancestral recall
1 imperial seal
1 wheel of fortune
1 vampiric tutor
1 channel
1 demonic consultation
1 tinker
1 memory jar
1 crop rotation
1 demonic tutor
5 mox
1 lotus petal
1 black lotus
1 sol ring
1 mana crypt
1 mana vault
1 lion eye diamond
1 grim monolith

sb:
2 overload
1 echoing truth
1 eternal witness
1 tormod crypt
1 naturalize
1 oxidize
1 goblin welder
1 uktabi orangutan
2 dark confidant
2 xantid swarm
1 city of brass
1 tolarian academy

2nd: Ray Robillard

4 goblin welder
4 tangle wire
3 crucible of worlds
2 thirst for knowledge
1 tinker
1 gorilla shaman
1 wheel of fortune
1 ancestral recall
1 sundering titan
1 mindslaver
1 crop rotation
1 demonic tutor
1 memory jar
1 balance
1 smokestack
1 trinisphere
1 gamble
5 mox
1 black lotus
1 sol ring
1 mana crypt
1 mana vault
1 metalworker
1 gilded lotus
2 darksteel ingot
4 mishra workshop
4 wasteland
3 gemstone mine
4 city of brass
1 tolarian academy
1 strip mine
1 barbarian ring
1 trikselion
1 vampiric tutor
1 karn silver golem

sb:
2 tormod crypt
2 viashino heretic
2 choke
3 red elemental blast
1 jester cap
3 chalice of the void
2 seal of cleansing


3rd:yokomoto
4 force of will
4 mana drain
3 merchant scroll
4 brainstorm
4 thirst for knowledge
3 gifts ungiven
2 misdirection
1 vamp tutor
1 darksteel colossus
1 time walk
1 ancestral recall
1 fact or fiction
1 yawgmoth will
1 demonic tutor
1 recoup
1 echoing truth
1 rebuild
1 tinker
1 burning wish
4 polluted delta
3 volcanic island
2 underground sea
2 island
1 snow covered island
1 library of alexandria
1 tolarian academy
1 sol ring
1 lotus petal
1 mana vault
1 mana crypt
1 black lotus
5 mox

sb:
3 pithing needle
2 rack and ruin
2 tormod crypt
2 pyroblast
1 tendrils
1 REB
1 lava dart
1 echoing ruin
1 pyroclasm
1 merchant scroll

4th:nate pease
2 underground sea
2 volcanic island
2 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
4 island
1 snow covered island
1 library of alexandria
1 tolarian academy
1 darksteel colossus
4 mana drain
4 force of will
1 yawgmoth will
1 demonic tutor
2 gifts ungiven
1 goblin charlbelcher
1 burning wish
4 brainstorm
4 thirst for knowledge
1 mystical tutor
1 REB
1 mana severance
1 engineered explosives
1 lotus petal
5 mox
1 black lotus
1 ancestral recall
1 time walk
1 tinker
1 echoing truth
1 pithing needle
1 sol ring
1 mana vault
1 recoup
1 merchant scroll
1 mana crypt
1 vamp tutor


5th: Rich Meyst
5 mox
1 black lotus
1 ancestral recall
1 time walk
4 brainstorm
4 impulse
4 force of will
4 duress
4 mana leak
1 mystical tutor
1 vamp tutor
1 imperial seal
1 demonic tutor
1 gaea blessing
1 akroma swiss army knife of wrath !
1 spirit of the night
4 oath of druid
1 crop rotation
2 sensei divining top
3 flooded strand
4 wasteland
4 forbidden orchard
1 strip mine
1 polluted delta
2 city of brass
1 island
1 volcanic island
1 underground sea
1 tropical island

sb:
2 oxidize
2 pyroblast
1 REB
3 energy flux
2 annul
1 pithing needle
1 darksteel colossus
1 crucible of worlds
1 tinker
1 darkblast

6th: GAGOOCH
4 polluted delta
1 flooded strand
2 volcanic island
2 underground sea
5 island
1 tolarian academy
5 mox
1 black lotus
1 lotus petal
1 mana crypt
1 mana vault
1 sol ring
1 yawgmoth will
1 recoup
1 time walk
1 ancestral recall
4 mana drain
4 force of will
4 brainstorm
4 thirst for knowledge
1 gorilla shaman
3 gifts ungiven
1 mana severance
1 burning wish
1 tendrils of agony
1 rebuild
1 echoing truth
1 demonic tutor
1 mystical tutor
1 fact or fiction
1 goblin charlbelcher
1 sundering titan

sb:
1 rack and ruin
1 pyroclasm
1 deep analysis
1 tendrils of agony
2 pithing needle
3 annul
2 pyroblast
2 red elemental blast
2 darkblast

7th:Keith Johnson
1 ancestral recall
1 black lotus
1 crop rotation
1 darksteel colossus
1 demonic tutor
1 fastbond
1 gifts ungiven
1 lifegift
1 mana crypt
1 memory jar
5 mox
1 regrowth
1 sol ring
1 time walk
1 timetwister
1 tinker
1 trade routes
1 vamp tutor
1 yawghmoths will
3 gorilla shaman
4 crucible of worlds
4 horn of greed
4 exploration
4 gemstone mine
4 city of brass
4 mishras workshop
1 tolarian academy
1 strip mine
1 undiscovered paradise
2 bazaar of baghdad
3 wasteland
1 glacial chasm
1 barbarian ring

sb:
3 null rod
3 REB
2 hydroblast
2 BEB
2 ray of revelation
3 pyrostatic pillar

8th:jaris wicklund
4 mishras workshop
4 city of brass
4 gemstone mine
1 barbarian ring
3 wasteland
1 strip mine
1 tolarian academy
5 mox
1 black lotus
1 mana crypt
1 mana vault
1 sol ring
1 ancestral recall
1 imperial seal
1 demonic tutor
2 goblin welder
3 gorilla shaman
1 karn silver golem
1 mystical tutor
1 vamp tutor
1 tinker
1 balance
1 yawg will
1 memory jar
1 fastbond
4 smokestack
4 tangle wire
3 crucible of worlds
3 sphere of resistance
1 trinisphere
1 swords to plowshares
1 crop rotation

sb:
1 jester cap
2 choke
2 ray of revelation
2 BEB
2 REB
2 tormod crypt
2 viashino heretic
2 razormane masticore


congrats to alll players, another good time was had by all.   And wow, those decklists went up in record time

[nataz]

that is a really interesting Top 8.

how many people were there?

did you play the tog.loam.dec?

[Juggernaut GO]

I think 34 players showed.

 I played  a gigantic pile.  Take the samite healer list I ran, and subtract like 5 good cards, and add zombie infestation, life from the loam, and a few other crappy cards.  I even put oath in the sideboard for ha ha's but as a joke my 2 creatures were akroma and nicol bolas.  I oathed up bolas 3 times, but he never got to swing.  I got to pay the upkeep on him once, but then i died from a mana vault being tapped.  I had a great time with that deck for sure, it actually went 4-2 but my tiebreakers were bad.  Workshop oath is definitely my next project.

[Jacob Orlove]

1 akroma swiss army knife of wrath !

Shenanigans! There is only one of those, and it's mine!

[Moxlotus]

I am so happy to see a deck I helped create do well by someone that I don't know   Rich Meyst, you have made my day.

Also, I would like to know why there is a Stax deck with only 1 Stack.  That blows my mind away.

[amidtownrocker]

Akroma will always be known as the Swiss Army Knife of Wrath, she has everything including a can opener.  She happens to open cans of whoop ass.  I was the one piloting that deck and I must say the maindeck I would not touch one bit. It works so well. I would not have taken down Outlaw without those Energy Flux in my board and I would not have survived a Fish beatdown if i didn't board in my one darkblast.  I lost to 3-land belcher in the top 8 because game three he got a late game Memory Jar off and all i had in my new hand was oxidize and annul, neither of which stops a Yawg Will with a stacked graveyard.  Not sure if the red splash I added is worth it or not but the REBs did help me win two seperate matches. And on one situation Razia would have been better then Spirit of the Night, besides that Spirit of the Night was fine.  Great deck and its time someone in New England started to play Oath to some success

[Methuselahn]

Congratulations on the win.  These lists sure do make for an interesting read.  I would have thought that Flame Vault would have been played over Severence Belcher by now, but w/e.

..

Edit: deleted response due to deleted replies.

[MoxMonkey]

Quote edited

Anyway back to the tournament, it was great, I lost So many games and I didn't eat exp the awesome snacks there.  I definitely need to sleep the day before the next one so I don't loss to myself not knowing what is going on.  Also, The Sol Ring is AWESOME I'm loving it.  Cannot wait to come back for the next one, scrubbing out or Winning it either one.  Good times.  Gamble is also awesome and Blue is needed in Belcher kids.  Time to grow up and see that brainstorming turn 1 so you see up to 10 cards is great.  Also keeping a hand size against control also lets you win the game by baiting with Channel and what not.

[Smmenen]

Enter flame phase:

edit random flame quote

done

Although I empathize with the sentiment expressed (I sincerely do), I don't think the criticism stems either from bragging about superior decks or about bitching for the sake of bitching.

Rather, the concern is that if we want to be percieved as a serious format, if we want to promote our understanding and knowledge of the format and disseminate that knowledge for the purpose of growing the format, there have to be standards and norms about what is good and what is not.  Without such benchmarks, the metagame is chaos and we have no way of knowing what needs to be restricted and what doesn't.  Moreover, the bitching, as you call it, instigates a debate. 

After all, isn't that the point of boards like this?

Player A posts a decklist

Player B criticizes.

Player A defends their choices

Player B rebuts, etc

Until there is some sort of agreement reached or at least agreement about what the specifics of the disagreement is about and under what conditions agreement might be reached.

Do you think decks are posted here just for show?  To show how pretty they are? 

No.  Decks are posted here to expose them to criticism, broadly speaking.  That's why message boards like this exist.  Otherwise the decklists are just posted here to glorify the victors, and that has no practical application at all for the vast majority of readers. 

What people want is to understand for their own purposes.  That is the practicality of posting decklists.  That is analysis.  Analysis is a form of critique in that way.  People are asking why something worked or didn't work so as to take that information and use it to try and win tournaments. 

[Juggernaut GO]

I think  goblin lore/gamble needs to get broken out at rochester :>

[ReAnimator]

I think goblin lore/gamble needs to get broken out at rochester :>

Don't forget Control of the court!

(its the same thing as goblin lore, but in P3K)

[VarienTanafres]

.  Great deck and its time someone in New England started to play Oath to some success

Granted I didn't make top 8, losing to Kyle, Jaris and Jugs, my Oath went 3 -3 and really didn't do all that bad. Some minor tweaking should make it a little better. I managed to get a few awes and WTF?'s while winning and losing. Oath is def. not out of the T1 realm.

[Dante]

I hardly see how your opinions should dictate that my experiences are worthless.

god damn right

Enough.  If you guys want to make a debate out of it, please open a thread in the APPROPRIATE forum.

That being said, Justin [JDizzle] has made a strong case against the inclusion of blue in Belcher, I'm sure he can link you to his posts or topics (don't do it here, start a new thread or PM it), and he has multiple results to back it up, including a top-8 at a 112-man event.

You have only the results of a 34-man tournament, which is an excellent start.  Their opinions in no way make yours invalid, but if you want to make your case why blue/brainstorm should be in Belcher, you need to actually make a case, not just "oh I got first place why are u all hatin'". 

That was Smemmen's point.  There was a debate awhile back and the consensus was that blue/brainstorm didn't belong.  If you want to bring up that debate again, that would be an excellent topic for the open forum.  If all you want to do is say "hey I won, look at me", that's fine too, but don't be surprised that when you post assertions taking the minority side about a topic that has already been discussed, you'll have people on the other side of the argument that will feel you're wrong.

Topics like this are the whole POINT of TMD - discuss it.  Don't take offense because someone came to a different conclusion than you - if you believe you're correct, then explain your agrument/evidence/side.

- Dante

[Dante]

I guess the "start a new discussion thread and keep this one clean for results and/or tournament stuff" wasn't clear enough.  I'll try harder next time, my bad.   

I've moved all the "blue is bad" "no it's not" "yes it is" "dude, stop hating" posts with relevant opinions into a discussion thread in the open forum and cleaned up the rest.  I'm leaving Smemmen's post because it's quite clear on how/why we have deck discussions here.

If you want to talk about the tournament results, who did who's girlfriend while he was in the top8, cool things after the tourney, etc, continue on - anything but bad debates about the Belcher list (we have a new thread for that).

Dante

[Gaagooch]

Well i am shocked to see that these lists are posted already, normally it takes hatch forever.  anyways just thought id say congrats to kyle on winning and congrats to everyone else in the top 8.  I did own kyle when i played him in the swiss though, and by own i mean i brainstormed into my mox jet for the second black source for my tendrils to go off...too bad i lost to yokomoto in the top 8 when he went quite nutty games 1 and 3...but hey i had a good time it was a great tournament as usual, and i got more foreign gifts ungiven...there is no way i could ever quit type one, the people are awesome...

[Hatchman]

Well it usually does take me forever because I have a JOB! But Trav offered to put these up for me, So I thank him for his time and effort. I sure didnt see this starting an arguement about Blue in belcher(Who Cares Play What ever) But Dave and I thank everyone that showed up yesterday and made it a tournament. We Will be doing another one next month. Ill post that in a couple of days!!


Once again Thanks for all your support!!

Hatch

[MoxMonkey]

What was Nates SB was wondering what he was using for Burning Wish targets?

[Juggernaut GO]

EDIT - Dude, chill.  - Dante

[Whatever Works]

EDIT - Dude, chill.  - Dante

Its hard for him. However, knowing him for as long as I have he says everything with good intentions (err.. usually), and only makes fun of the people he is friends with (unless your from the midwest or the south in which case he hates you)...

[Dante]

EDIT - Dude, chill.  - Dante

Its hard for him. However, knowing him for as long as I have he says everything with good intentions (err.. usually), and only makes fun of the people he is friends with (unless your from the midwest or the south in which case he hates you)...

Spam is still spam, however you color it.

[VarienTanafres]

What was Nates SB was wondering what he was using for Burning Wish targets?

Usually tended to be things he used after Will. So things like Will, Tinker, Time Walk, or w/e he needed. He might have had a Mana Severence in S/B, can't remember too well right now.

[Smmenen]

EDIT - Dude, chill.  - Dante

I will go on record saying that I do not think that juggernautgo said was worth censoring.  It wasn't really a flame per se and what he said deserved a serious response becuase it exemplified what a number of people were thinking and what a number of people feel. 

[Juggernaut GO]

no bad feelings held hostage here,  I write what I think sometimes its just too loud.