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Author Topic: The Many Faces of Control Slaver  (Read 63883 times)
cryolyte
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« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2005, 03:41:16 pm »

Last week at RIW Hobbies in Livonia, Michigan, I split for first (a Black Lotus) with a good friend of mine with this decklist:

1 Black Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Strip Mine
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Snow-Covered Island
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand

4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Mana Leak
3 Goblin Welder
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trike
1 Pentavus
1 Mindslaver
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Fact or Fiction

SB:
2 Gilded Drake
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Arcane Laboratory
2 Stifle
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Rack and Ruin
2 Pyroclasm
1 Echoing Truth

The gilded drake was for Oath. It cannot be duressed and it's blue so I thought I'd give it a try. It also could come in for Gifts deck or decks with only the colossus as a win condition. I brought it in in a few matches, but never drew it. For the haters out there, I beat Oath in round 5 allowing me to draw into the top eight. I beat 2-land belcher and stax on my way to the finals. This build was metagamed against a mostly control/combo metagame, with a splash of stax. The leaks were worth their weight in gold, as almost no one expected them, and they allowed me to take a more controllish playstyle. I was concerned about going down to 3 Volcanic Islands, but it was never a problem.

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« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2005, 06:48:27 am »

This past weekend I arrived at the final of the first Lliga Catalana de Vintage in Barcelona with a control-slaver list quite different from the presents in this topic. The tournament involved the most competitive players of the area because only the 11 winners of the previous tournaments of the year and the 32 better classified players were able to participate. You can view the top 8 decks in this topic: http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/index.php?topic=26181.0

I decided to play control-slaver expecting a lot of STAX and control decks. As I used to play keeper decks I discarded the option to play Burning-slaver because I weren't enough confortable playing this aggressive approach and I wanted to play something with more control, more similar to my keep deck. But after playing during 2 month with a traditional control-slaver list I was disappointed because it isn't fast enough to win aggro-control or aggro-combo decks like fish or FCG presents in my meta. Then I saw I list that I like a lot, I list that Andrea Garella played at the Doomsday Italian tournament, winning with it. I liked the list a lot and after playing some games I decided that this list is exactly what I want to play. It covers all the problems I found with the traditional approach:
- It is much faster, Intuition helps a lot to put the opponent in trouble quite quickly and usually only an activation of welder is enough to win the game.
- Deep Analysis helps a lot against control decks, putting you ahead very quickly if you resolve an Intuition and helping a lot when both players have wasted his hands and they were in top deck mode. Also you can discard them to a Third for Knowledge when you don't have any artifact or you are light in mana and you need more cards.
- Cunning Wish helps a lot to answer opposite threats and makes the deck very flexible. The same for Engineered Explosive that can be pitched to Third also.
- I changed a little the mana base to allow more basic lands and fetchlands replacing Mana Vault to minimize the Null Rod problem. I wasn't sure of this change but after playing the deck I liked it a lot. My initial hands were better with more color mana and I have to mulligan less than usual.

I played six rounds of swiss against 2 FCG, 1 Fish, 1 Rector Tendrils, 1 3-Color Control and 1 Gifts, making 4-1-1, losing to Rector Tendrils and drawing against Fish, one of my worst match up. Then I play againstt an Oath deck and a Dragon deck and finally losing agains another Oath deck in the final. The deck runs quite well with answers and solutions for any problem and having options in each game. I was a little disappointed with my sideboard, especially with duress and darkblast, I haven't enough black to support them.

My list was:

Roberto Lopez With Control Slaver

// Lands
3 [UNL] Volcanic Island
3  Polluted Delta
2  Flooded Strand
4 [UG] Island
2 [UNL] Underground Sea
1  Library of Alexandria
1  Tolarian Academy

// Creatures
1  Pentavus
3  Goblin Welder
1  Sundering Titan
1  Triskelion

// Spells
1  Time Walk
4  Brainstorm
4  Force of Will
4  Thirst for Knowledge
1  Tinker
1  Black Lotus
1  Mindslaver
1  Mana Crypt
1  Sol Ring
1  Mox Emerald
1  Mox Jet
1  Mox Pearl
1  Mox Ruby
1  Mox Sapphire
4  Mana Drain
1  Mystical Tutor
1  Yawgmoth's Will
1 [UNL] Demonic Tutor
1 [UNL] Ancestral Recall
2  Intuition
2  Deep Analysis
2  Cunning Wish
1  Engineered Explosives

// Sideboard
SB: 2  Duress
SB: 2 [UNL] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2  Rack and Ruin
SB: 1  Gush
SB: 1  Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1  Rushing River
SB: 1  Duplicant
SB: 1  Viashino Heretic
SB: 1  Echoing Truth
SB: 1  Darkblast
SB: 1  Pyroclasm
SB: 1  Firestorm

Roberto.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2006, 01:56:20 am by Klep » Logged
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« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2005, 08:30:00 am »

Control Slaver is really rocking right now putting up extraordinary records..Rochester, Michigian, Italy and DENMARK. In Denmark this following list recently took home another lotus. And there were so much gws oath, minimally 6 players out of 25 players. This tournament was an invitational one, featuring THE BEST players in Denmark. Here you go

4 Thirst for knowledge
4 Brainstorm
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
2 Intuition
2 Deep Analysis
2 Cunning Wish
4 Goblin Welder
1 Pentavus
1 Triskelion
1 Sundering Titan
1 Mindslaver
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoths Will
1 Tinker
4 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Island
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt

Sideboard:
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
2 Extract
1 Firestorm
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Rushing River
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Gush
1 Misdirection
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Fire/ice
1 Duplicant

Have a nice christmas.

-Vertigo
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« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2005, 09:46:56 am »

My bad, the duresses were main, and here is the simple reason why. The Decks I expected most were Gifts, Slaver and Oath. The changes I would make to the deck now are:

In the MD:

- 1 Goblin Welder
- 2 Duress

+ 1 Vampiric Tutor
+ 2 Gorilla Shaman (I found that in every matchup I brought in the third duress as well as the 2 shamans. These are more versatile I feel)

So I'm confused.  If you bring in the third Duress so often, why not keep the two maindecked and add in the third?

I've tried Scrying before.  It's really good in the mirror, but then again pretty much any other draw spell is good in the mirror.  I don't really agree with running more counterspells.  They just clutter your deck up IMO.

I don't like the Fire/Ice you have in the list.  I'd much, much rather have an end-all answer in that slot (if you're going to run answers).  Something like Echoing Truth or Rushing River may be better.  (What if your opponent tosses down a Ground Seal, and has dealt with Will and Tinker?)

Try exploring Sensei's Top.  The synergy with Welder is just insane (it cantrips every turn).
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« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2005, 11:41:58 am »

First, I'm always happy to hear which Slaver deck in particular has done well enough to split for a Lotus. I haven't tested Mana Leak just yet, but seeing it do well again, perhaps I will. Second, seeing winning decks with innovative ideas like Gilded Drake as an answer to Oath is always worthwhile.

Myself, I'd rather not rebuke someone for sharing a decklist with which he or she did well. That is the spirit of information sharing that this community was built on.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2005, 11:16:14 pm by Jacob Orlove » Logged

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« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2005, 03:30:53 pm »

This is MAD a flame.  Warned.

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« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2005, 03:27:48 am »

When a Moderator red-texts a post, replying with "hahaha! Man, I wonder what he said" is not appropriate. This was spam.

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« Last Edit: December 28, 2005, 11:17:41 pm by Jacob Orlove » Logged

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« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2005, 04:37:20 am »

All joking aside, I was wondering how much of a difference there is between running extra disruption (ie Duress, Mana Leak) and running extra bombs. As a player frequently sitting opposite of Slaver players (the welders hate me so i tend to stay away from decks like Slaver), I can't really tell the difference.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2005, 11:18:20 pm by Jacob Orlove » Logged

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« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2005, 06:36:29 am »

We should be grateful for the many versions of CS and set aside our differences. We need take in the input provided by these fine results.

Actually I think that we in 2-3 have received a new Foucaultian tool box. A weaponry or design that can be applicated to various metas.

I think that the decklists posted reveal 3 different patterns.

First one let us call it the European version of CS that is based around; universal hate access through the cunning wishes. And tempo through intuition. In Europe these two innovations are necessary as we combat a lot of "random" (IE aggro) decks that are prevalent here. And we need tempo in order to seal the deal.

Another pattern I see is the über control version of CS, i.e the "ugo list" (lets just call it that) which is based around 3x leak, 1x strip, cow. This is a nice addition to the tool box i think.

Finally a combo version of Cs. I have found this list pparticularlyiinterestingsinc e I like the way it runs denial in form of the 2x mox monkeys, mindslaver activations and a combo kill to get out situations you cant win.

These innovations sshouldn'tbe shrouded in pointless arguments and flamings. We need to focus on the tools developed here. For instance if i know I am going to face a meta filled with combo could use Demars` 2x gorilla shaman and Ugos 3x mana leak. If I went to a meta filled with oath then 3x leak +1 burning wish + 1 whatever.

This is quite an addition I think.

Thank you
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« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2005, 09:22:50 am »

It was a minor alteration if Ugo's build. I never claimed to have invented it, I just said "here's the decklist". If I remember correctly, here is what I did to Ugo's build before the tournament:

-1 Seat of the Synod
-1 Platinum Angel

+1 Darksteel Citadel
+1 Pentavus

I had heard that those crazy stax players were coming from St. Louis (they didn't though) so I thought that the citadel would be a better card choice. Also, while I appreciate the benefits of Platz, I just can't concieve cutting the bus for her. The reasons for the citadel choice play into this one as well. The bus gives stax major headaches.

My match results are as follows; forgive me for not taking notes:

Round 1 - Draw with Landstill (we had 6 45 minute rounds)
Round 2 - Defeated Shaun Bauer with 5cStax 2-0 (guy who got 2nd at SCG Chicago last)
Round 3 - 2-0 against Workshop Aggro with white
Round 4 - 2-0 against Dragon
Round 5 - 2-1 (I think) against an Oath build with Muddle the Mixture.
Round 6 - ID

Quarterfinals - defeated belcher combo in 3 games. I ate his belcher with my mox monkey turn 3 in one game. In another I slaved him 3 or 4 times in a row to no avail. He never drew any mana, though. His opinion was that tinkering out the mindslaver was a poor play, but had he drawn any mana source whatsoever I would have wrecked everything he had. I had never played against belcher with control slaver so I don't know what the correct call was.

Semifinals - Defeated Stax player in 3 games. Game 3 was lots of fun. I strip locked him game one, and he tinkered up a turn two sundering titan to win game two. Game three, I tinkered up the bus, and the following turn he plays heretic. He nails my bus next turn (ouch) but I make some guys and start eating his permanents with the monkey. Then I weld in his tangle wire to lock him down after he exhausts his gemstone mines to play spells into my wall of drains, leaks and forces.

Me and Bob (rapalaman on here) split the finals.

The game against stax really sold me on the benefit of having mana leak. Now, everyone has their own playstyle, but I really like sitting there and not letting my opponent do anything. (Ah... Turbo Stasis of yore) Not the extent that I would switch to MUC or prison, but it's fun nonetheless. Before I started using the leaks, I often found myself overwhelmed by my opponent and losing control, which led to many (many) game and match losses. I just really like the leaks for that reason.   
« Last Edit: December 28, 2005, 11:22:55 am by cryolyte » Logged

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« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2005, 10:19:55 am »

I have also found the leaks powerful in the stax or tpsmatchup

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« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2005, 12:23:32 pm »

Using Mana Leaks and or Duress hurts your ability to run Metagame cards like Gorilla Shamans, Merchant Scroll, Fire/Ice, REB, Rack and Ruin and the others.  The Leaks do come in handy against Gifts and Combo matchups since you can be that Mono Bllue Deck.  I think the Leaks are best in the Stax and Gifts matchup from my testing, TPS payed the 3 on me a million times.  Damn Dark ritual.   
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« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2005, 02:32:18 pm »

Here's my current list. It is a bit different than much of what is out there. Instead of packing either additional counters or trying to work in a combo component, I focus on having single-card answers to various situations. Tormod's Crypt and Rack and Ruin are powerful cards both capable of winning games on their own. They are seldom entirely dead, and Rack and Ruin beats up Stax as well as handling hate cards like Rod and Chalice.

I'm not saying this build is optimal or anything. It tries to take the control role in a number of matchups, and it has been testing pretty well.

// Lands
    1 Library of Alexandria
    1 Tolarian Academy
    3 Polluted Delta
    1 Flooded Strand
    4 Volcanic Island
    2 Underground Sea
    4 Island
// Creatures
    4 Goblin Welder
    1 Triskelion
    1 Darksteel Colossus
// Spells
    4 Force of Will
    4 Mana Drain
    1  Rack and Ruin
    1 Echoing Truth
    1 Darkblast
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Fact or Fiction
    1 Ancestral Recall
    4 Thirst for Knowledge
    2 Mindslaver
    1 Time Walk
    1 Tinker
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
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« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2005, 03:28:11 pm »

Given your recent move to the Midwest, I have to question the lack of Pentavus.  Have you found that racing Smokestack with DSK is a better solution than making infy permanents with Pentavus?  One thing that is good about Pentavus is that he CAN be hardcast after you drain pretty much anything Stax plays, while DSK is still ungodly expensive.
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« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2005, 03:40:10 pm »

I love Pentavus. However, lately, I have found that he hasn't been needed. Rack and Ruin is better against Stax than he is, and the only common match where Pent is really good is Stax. And Stax isn't really that bad a matchup anyways. I'm more concerned with random RG Beats and Sligh decks, where DSC is amazing. If I start losing to Stax, then I'll toss Pentavus back in. Darkblast has been ok but not amazing, and could easily be cut.

As you can see, a Slaver deck built this way has to be constantly adjusted to suit a particular metagame.
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« Reply #45 on: December 28, 2005, 04:12:03 pm »

Rich -

I really appreciate you posting your list.

The biggest question I have is about Vamp. Why is this card in there when you aren't running Gifts?

Also, do you really need both Trike and Darkblast?
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« Reply #46 on: December 28, 2005, 04:16:32 pm »

Vamp is there because he runs a lot of one ofs like the Singleton Darkblast, Rack and Ruin, Echoing truth, and Tormod's Crypt.  The Vamp allows him to find them faster and when he needs them.  I don't Like Darkblast esp when you only have 2 underground seas that only concern I have with your list.  Maybe the return of the singleton Fire/Ice.
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« Reply #47 on: December 28, 2005, 05:32:16 pm »

Hmm...well i've heard people compare Control slaver with keeper....and it seems like your new list really IS keeper, with a sort of "Silver bullet" game plan...with main deck R&R vs. stax, Crypt vs. Will/Welder/Dragon, Darkblast vs. Welder....

Im not sold on Darksteel collosus in CS though....i guess i should take your word for it, since you're most likely alot better with CS then me Wink
Something like sundering titan seems superior since it nukes lands, can be hardcasted alot easier (like pentavus) and has great synergi with welder

Just my 2 cents.
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« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2005, 05:50:33 pm »

@ the vamp

I would assume it's because he is running more threat specific "answers" in the form of

Quote
   
    1  Rack and Ruin
    1 Echoing Truth
    1 Darkblast
    1 Tormod's Crypt

and the vamp effectively doubles the copies of each.
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« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2005, 07:01:47 pm »

Nataz is right. The main advantage of Vamp over Mystical is that it gets Tormod's Crypt, which has been nothing short of amazing in this metagame.
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« Reply #50 on: December 28, 2005, 07:13:38 pm »

It also gets black lotus and Academy, which are nothing less than amazing, period. when you are holding Yawgmoth's Will. 
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« Reply #51 on: December 28, 2005, 07:49:24 pm »

"It also gets black lotus and Academy, which are nothing less than amazing, period. when you are holding Yawgmoth's Will. "
-right, even if NOT holding yawgmoths Willl Razz

Smemmen, can you give us a clue as to how you would construct a CS deck?
You must have given it some considerations too!

Atog Lord: I have tried out the single tormods crypt. And was happy with the results:)

Its such a bomb if the opponent does count on it..or just to keep him from gifting!


Nice gentlemen to see such an exchange of information. Lets keep the input flowing.
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« Reply #52 on: December 28, 2005, 11:26:15 pm »

after testing with the mox monkey and many pther good players in my area ive noticed that building control slaver is a task u must take into ur own hands using disrupt works in the mirror match but gets sided out in game 2. gorilla shaman is amazing for blocking lackey and taking stax and watch itself get flushed down the toilet. also there is the gay way tinker fat man win in two turns. building ms is all in the sideboard also it takes an idea of what deacks are going to be played.p.s. goblins rule and spank mindslaver (i wish)
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« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2005, 11:32:52 pm »

Right Now I'm running Mystical and Vamp so I can find my Randoms faster. It's really difficult right now trying to build a more set Slaver list, since everything from the Number of Welders to the number of big artifacts and which big artifacts is solely dependent on the metagame.  Pentavus is in my builds only when I see a Very Large number of Stax and even then I mainboard a Moxmonkey or 2 over Pentavus if I can get away with it.  DSC Is probably the right call for now, since random hate decks can be a lot of trouble.
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« Reply #54 on: December 29, 2005, 08:59:45 am »

Do you find that you are ever using darkblast's dredge effect? It seems to me that you would not want to risk losing yawgmoth's will to the dredge, since it's very important to CS. I realize that it's not "necessary" to will to win with the deck, but is will so easily cast aside? Or do you just use it once and then only dredge after you brainstorm to decrease the odds of hitting the will (or tinker to a certain extent)

I can see Rich's reasoning for replacing the bus with the colossus. Bus is really good against stax and aggro. Colossus shares these properties, but to a lesser extent against stax, since the stax player can force a sacrifice with a ramped smokey. My first thought was that you're losing the infinite slaver lock, but it seems to me that you probably don't need that very often. Yes, the hard lock is game-over, but sometimes (I hesitate to say usually) one slaver activation is enough to put an opponent far enough behind that they might as well have already lost. And usually you have a few moxen so you can repeat the process if necessary. Of course, this is vintage, where people can win out of nowhere, and giving them that next turn could be fatal, but like so much in this format, it's about the percentages, and those are low enough to make the risk worth it.

A card I have been looking at again is intuition (without the AK engine, and as a one or two-of). If there's an active welder on the table, an intuition spells game over, provided that you have 2 mindslavers in your deck. Did this method fall out of favor because of graveyard hate? It seems like it would be really good. I just wanted to know what other people thought before wasting my time testing something that obviously wasn't accepted as an integral part of the deck.

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« Reply #55 on: December 29, 2005, 12:03:19 pm »

Well, I have tested intuition thouroughly and consider it a tempo question.. and if you have or just have access to will it can be used a semi gifts-

Try it out..it gives a boost in your tempo!
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« Reply #56 on: December 29, 2005, 02:44:09 pm »

I've been playing a version that is tweaked to beat Drain decks and Fish.  This is what my deck looks like.  It is very much geared toward winning via mana advantage.

MD

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Brainstorm
4 Thirst for Knowledge

3 Goblin Welder
2 Gorilla Shaman

1 Burning Wish
1 Yawgmoths' Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Echoing Truth

1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Sundering Titan
1 Mindslaver
1 Duplicant

1 Library of Alexandria
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Snow Covered Island
1 Tolerian Academy
1 Strip Mine
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt

Sideboard

2 Rack and Ruin
2 Stifle
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Red elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Echoing Truth
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Echoing Ruin
1 Deep Analysis
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Pyroclasm

Anyways this is what I have been playing, and the results have been pretty good.  Normally, I don't like Crucible in Slaver.  However when Combined with the mana destruction capabilities of Titan and Dubs Shaman; the mana denial route is fairly well suited for this deck in many match ups. 

EDIT:  I've also replaced Pyroclasm with Rolling Earthquake.

Don't double post. -Klep
« Last Edit: January 01, 2006, 01:57:44 am by Klep » Logged

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Eandori
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« Reply #57 on: December 30, 2005, 06:11:54 pm »

I have stated this quite a few times in other threads, but I'll state it again here with more explanation.  Crucible of Worlds, and Gifts Ungiven were God's Gift to Control Slaver!  Here's my list, and some explanation below.


Gifts Slaver

spells 35
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Goblin Welder
2 Mindslaver
1 Pentavus
1 Platinum Angel
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Cunning Wish
2 Gifts Ungiven
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Fact or Fiction
 
mana 25
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Volcanic Island
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Strip Mine

sideboard
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Burnout
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
2 Disenchant
1 Stifle
1 Gifts Ungiven
3 Wasteland
1 Triskelion
1 Gorilla Shaman

The Skinny:
I have tried TONS of versions of Control Slaver over the last year.  It has been my baby.  I've been running all those versions against the field and the current list I'm playing just undeniably seems to be the most solid, well rounded Slaver list I can get.  The only meta game call I made is occasionally trading the main board Pentavus for a Triskelion.  This deck has so many ways to win, so many ways to lock, it's incredible.  It even recovers VERY well from mana denial, and it can deal with ANYTHING that can be thrown against it.  The tools are there. 

The theory on this deck is simple... Slaver is NOT the fastest.  It does NOT have the most draw.  It does NOT have the biggest creatures, or the most counterspells, or the most answers.  It's NOT the most aggressive, or the most defensive.  Slaver is squarely in the middle of all that.  Since you will not typically outrace, etc. your opponent.  It makes sense to build a deck list that is rock solid, but has the tools to deal with what your opponent has done.  I tried a version of slaver with White and more answers main board for awhile.  THE DECK DID IT'S JOB and "answered" threats.  The main problem was simple... when the current threat is answered, getting the win was hard.  My white got moved to the sideboard, more tutoring/combo/and draw moved main board, and I eventually came to the list you see above.

2 Gifts Ungiven (main board), 1 in Sideboard:
I shake my head every time I see a slaver list without this.  The Graveyard is just as powerfull as your hand with Slaver!  You can do amazing things with lands and welders in Vintage these days.  Having a welder or a Crucible on the board makes Gifts Ungiven such a huge threat it's undeniable.  There is no one typical gifts cast.  Unlike the strait up "Gifts Ungiven" deck where your #1 goal is to build mana, then #2 big Will turn or Tinker for the win... With Slaver you can VERY MUCH use Gifts to set up the win, OR you can use it to set up such a huge board advantage, the opponent is forced to work around everything.

Here's some typical Gifts Ungiven pulls I start with, but get modified based on game state.
-Mindslaver, Crucible of Worlds, Darksteel Citadel, Black Lotus   -Can you say... Slaver lock?
-Flooded Strand, Strip Mine, Darksteel Citadel, Tolarian Academy   -Ok, do I get to Shuffle/Thin deck every turn, mana deny you, slaver lock, or speed boost?  If I have Crucible, there is no good choice.
-Fact or Fiction, Thirst, Gifts Ungiven, Tinker  -Turn 1 gifts into a Thrist and Fact!
-Mindslaver, Pentavus, Platinum Angel, Crucible of Worlds -Let's get the big boys out, so we have the threat ready.
-Black Lotus, Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Tolarian Academy -need fast mana?!?

Don't forget about if you Gifts on THEIR turn after Slaver activation... It becomes Demonic Tutor x2 and Entomb x2 in one card.
-Yawgmoth's Will, Ancestral Recall (to hand), Time Walk, Tolarian Academy (to the yard) -Big Y. Will turn for the win!

Why a Gifts in the sideboard?  Because there's a Cunning Wish main board and you don't always need an "answer".

Crucible of Worlds
What's the best way to deal with opposing Mana denial?  How about a Crucible and a Searchland in the yard?  No artifact in your hand after thirst?  No biggie, pitch the lands and put them back into play next turn.  Your opponent having a tough time with mana?  Demonic tutor/Gifts for the Strip mine and make him lose.  THERE IS NO EASIER SLAVER LOCK then 1 Welder, Crucible, 3 lands, Citadel and Slaver in the Yard.

After months of testing, I found the same info as others about dealing with Stax and others like it.  You can't win the counter war.. they have more threats then counters.  BUT you CAN hit their mana HARD!  What does Stax fear more then an opposing Crucible/Strip, Goblin Welders, and Gorilla Shaman?  3 Gifts, 1 Demonic Tutor, 1 Vampiric, and lots of draw helps Crucible get into play or in the yard fast.

It's amazing how much easier it was to get my colored mana when I have a Crucible in the deck.  If I have a Crucible on the board, and a Searchland, most opponents will just give up mana denial and go for something else.  So... your Tolarian got stripped, or Library of Alexandria died before you got up to 7 cards?  No worries, have Crucible, will replay.

Crucible+Searchland turns Brainstorm into Ancestral Recall!!!!  Sure you pay a life every turn, but those lands you drew got shuffled back into the deck and your Brainstorm probably drew you a counter and a thirst!

The OPTIONS
Like I stated, what I like best about my Slaver build is that I have the tools to recover from anything, and I have several ways to win.  I've had all 4 welders and both slavers Cranial Extracted on turns 1 and 2 and still won by playing the deck like Keeper.  I've had my Plat, Pentavus removed from the deck and still won with slaver lock and using the opponents deck against him.  I can go mana denial, card draw, counter war, creature beatdown, huge Yawgmoth's Will, or Slaver lock to win.  Simply put, the deck has OPTIONS.  I'm sure all slaver players have noticed this.

So what did Gifts Ungiven and Crucible do?  It seems like it DOUBLED the number of combos and options to the deck.  It gave a slaver lock condition that is twice as easy to set up, and Gifts can set up the lock by grabbing those last 1-3 cards you need in a single cast.  My deck still has the ability to answer what my opponent does, but with 2 Gifts, and 2 tutors, when I'm ready I just win.  I've played many decks over the years that tried to do too many things at once.  This deck keeps amazing me though, because the Synergy of the deck is huge.  It has the tools and they all work together.

Some may hate this list, some may like it.  I have piloted this list to a top 8 at the most recent power tournament.  The deck that won is the deck that took me out of the finals and he got "lucky" that I did not draw 1 artifact mana out of 30 cards...  It was Stax, the game was stagnant, I had a welder on the board and a Pentavus in the yard.  He had us both locked down with Tangle wire and I was keeping it that way with my welder, waiting for 1 of 8 artifact mana I had in the deck.  Well, he found his triskelion before I drew one of them and game 2 went to him. 

Cheers,
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« Reply #58 on: December 30, 2005, 06:22:06 pm »

I used to not believe in Gifts in Slaver, and now I must agree it is quite the hotness.  Your lack of mainboard Shamans worries me, however, especially since you're already running a mana denial strategy.  Platz is hot sometimes, but I really think she's just win more, and a Shaman in her slot will help lots with your early game.

Your version of CS is very close to what I've been fiddling with, and I must agree with you when you say it's extremely flexible.  I think CS's role in the meta isn't to try and speed up its kill and become more focused, but to slow the game, and have the biggest inevitability of any deck in the meta by virtue of its ability to answer everything, and eventually resolve or weld Slaver.
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« Reply #59 on: December 30, 2005, 06:45:40 pm »

Yeah, I can agree with you about the welders.  I would state that as a meta game call based on your area.  I tend to run into EVERYTHING in the Northwest.  Plat. Angel is one of those cards that is good in some match ups, but game ending in others.  I can totally see more shamans in builds in other areas.  No doubts Smile
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