Ichorid

[Hillboy]

I've been working on it, my "budget" deck isn't really budget. In a ten proxy it is but not in real life. I keep testing it and testing it and I get the same results, the deck is ok presideboard and terrible afterwards. I played this deck against Worse-than-Fish today with less than stellar results.

I like the deck and I'm wondering where other people have gone with it.

Like what color splash did you use if any? I'm leaning towards blue or green possibly both.

I see what other peoplehave done and it looks like a full-powered bazaared version stands a chance but I get the feeling a budget version is gonna get they're buts handed to them.

Prove me wrong,

[thokash]

Obviously a version without Bazaar isn't going to do much - its the best draw engine in the game, and Ichorid uses its drawback to its advantage just as much if not more than any other deck.  Simply put, Bazaar is the single card that makes this deck stand a chance.  As far as "fully powered", I guess which power to include hasn't been decided upon yet.  Ancestral Recall and Time Walk have been less than stellar (although Recall is still included if you are running blue I suppose), and as Moxlotus said off-colour Moxen are pretty much dead without Tolarian Winds and has advised you can run Breakthrough instead.  So even in a proxy environment (5 or 10), 4 Bazaar should be your first proxies, and not something else.  The rest of the proxies are filled up dependant on which direction you are taken the deck - Tolarian Winds vs Breakthrough.

I don't think the deck can play its game properly without blue.  When you lose blue, you become too dependant on Bazaar and Wasteland/Pithing Needle can simply ruin your day.  Having back such as Careful Study, Tolarian Winds/Breakthrough, Deep Analysis, and well even Chain of Vapor in the board is too good to pass up.  Although green isn't necessary, I have already above explained the importance of Bazaar - and you get this neat little card Crop Rotation which basically is Bazaar #5.  I also like the single Life from the Loam, because it can act as another dredge card as well as getting Bazaar back in a pinch.  And although I have never done it, I guess theres always a possibility to cast Golgari Grave-Troll - which can be a good play if there is a Tormod's Crypt on the table.

I also want to touch on 2 points as well, the first being restricted cards.  After reading Zheng's article about the deck, he didn't find it necessary to run restricted cards in his build.  However, I believe there should be at least 2 cards that should be included - Crop Rotation and Vampiric Tutor, both solely for the purpose to get Bazaar.  Crop Rotation has the advantage of turning a first turn green mana source into an equivalent first turn Bazaar (unless it gets countered, which hurts).  Vampiric Tutor has the ability to EOT cast it, setting up a second turn Bazaar which we all know can't be countered.  This leads onto the other 2 black tutors, being Imperial Seal and Demonic Tutor.  Both cards definately have their advantages to search out a Bazaar, but is the Sorcery speed too much of a drawback?  I find myself never to have 2 mana during a main phase where I haven't already dropped a land, so Demonic Tutor loses its main advantage of being able to put the card in your hand.  Imperial Seal has the right casting cost, being a single black, but again you have to wait for a turn before you get to play Bazaar.  The same is also true with Vampiric Tutor, but the suprise element of an instant justifies its inclusion.  I guess what i'm saying is, should Imperial Seal be included as a slightly worse Vampiric Tutor, or is there better stuff to run.  And should Demonic Tutor be included (mainly in a Tolarian Winds build with 5 moxen) just because of its reputation?  These are the main cards I want to illustrate, but if anyone has arguments for or against cards such as Ancestral Recall, Time Walk, Entomb, Mystical Tutor, feel free to speak up.

The second topic I quickly want to discuss is disruption.  In an earlier post (can't remember who it was, sorry), someone illustrated the importance to balance the brokeness of speed and the disruption factor.  At present, we currently have 4 Cabal Therapy cemented in the maindeck.  Zheng's list included cards such as Mesmeric Fiend (pseudo-Duress, Ichorid food) and Chalice of the Void (mana denial, protection vs Crypt).  Chiz opted solely for the 4 Therapy in the main.  In my testing, I found myself facing early Tinker -> Colossus (turn 1/2 mainly, before Cabal Therapy really comes online unless you hard cast it) quite regularly.  Looking at more disruption, I guess the obvious card is Duress.  Is the fact that Duress does nothing from the yard a reason not to include possible the best offensive disruption in the format? Is Mesmeric Fiend just a more versatile option to Duress, being a black creature, even though it can't be cast first turn without a Mox?  Looking at it more closely, the extra spots Moxen take up for the Fiend to be better are more spots you could be including disruption or draw - therefore making Duress a better choice.  What about  a card called Unmask?  With a heavy commitment to black and a free mana casting cost, could Unmask finally have a home?  If necessary it can take a creature such as Welder, which after you side in Chalice/Pithing Needle might be crucial since you dump your library in your grave making juicy welding targets.  Is the ability to play Unmask and Bazaar without any additional acceleration make it worthy of inclusion?  Which wins out of Duress and Unmask?  Once again, feel free to comment on other disruption such as maindeck Pithing Needle, Null Rod (although I find it slow), or even Wasteland/Strip Mine which I have been testing lately.

[XIII]

I have quickly read this tread, but a few questions came to my mind:

-Why don't you play Hermit Druid ?
You can reach a T3 kill, You are less dependant to BoB (your opponent now need 2 pithing needle)
It has a nice synergie with Golgary Thug.
It is an other win condition that properly fit in that deck

- Breakthrough and Winds of tolaria are good cards in taht deck, but have you thought of:
Glimpse the Unthinkable, not before T2, but digs deeper.
Mulch, fills your graveyard and helps you to fix your mana base
Vision charm, fills your grave, can deal with Platz or DSC, can buy you a turn Vs drain.deck.
Entomb. I really can play without it, it brings a lot of versatility.
strategic planning. not that great, but still interesting to think about it.

-The disrupt:
How many are needed?
Therapy is a must have, but what about duress and Fiend ?
Most of the time, you need a disrupt in opening hand to have a chance to deal with your opponent, that is to say play +/- 8 of them. So, which one to choose?

Finally a deck list that managed to make top8 in a recent 80+ players tournament near Paris.
He lost in 1/2 against th Grim long player.
http://www.solomoxen.com/?page=7&id=60

1 Krovikan Horror
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Darksteel Colossus
4 Ichoride
1 Mox Jet
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Golgari Grave-Troll
2 Zombie Infestation
1 Mox Emerald
1 Life from the Loam
4 Hermit Druid
1 Lotus Petal
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bayou
1 Darkblast
4 Nether Shadow
4 Ashen Ghoul
3 Deep Analysis
1 Crop Rotation
1 Diamond Mox
1 Chrome Mox
1 Tropical Island
1 Wonder
1 Careful Study
1 Putird Imp
1 Black Lotus
---------
3 Pithing Needle
3 Chain of Vapor
3 Darkblast
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Ray of Revelation

The Zombi infestation and the Krovikan Horror proved to be not needed.
He reached again a top8 the following week in a smaller tournament.

[Law]

The main problem with the druid win is this XIII. You have one turn to deal 20+ damage before you lose the game. How do I know this I play tested a Hermit Druid vershon that lunar put up on the web in a MTGS article.

The build he had in there I found needed more then one DSC to give you two turns to kill. While I did not test to see if it would have worked better with the extra DSC in it. In theory thats one thing that the deck needs if you cant get all the damage that first turn. That is just what I found with Hermit Druid in the deck.


Though I am not saying he would be bad for the deck. Im just saying any build that uses him must be ready to either have 1 turn to win. But that the deck could also then be adjusted to give a little more time to give a chance to mop up a Non lethal first wave.

[XIII]

You have one turn to deal 20+ damage before you lose the game

Dealing 20+ damage is rarely a problem with 4 ichorid and X ashen ghoul and X Nether Shadow (and 1 druid if needed).
But you have more than one turn to do that, even with only one DSC. You can still flashback your Cabal Therapy targeting the DSC in your hand, thus reshuffling it in your deck and gaining one more turn to deal with your opponent' s life.

[Cross]

Edit: My bad. I'm retarded, not you.

Running tinker colossus in this deck seems stupid to me anyways, you never have three mana, and if you do the game should have gone on long enough such that you only have dredge cards in hand.

Fiend seems underwhelming to me, but a combination of therapy, duress, and chalice make tons of sense. The big thing is just getting an early chalice down, because a turn 1 or 2 tinker for colossus this deck just can't deal with.

He means, flashback therapy targeting yourself, name DSC. That discards it back to your library. You can even do this after attacking with whatever you sacrifice.
-Jacob

[XIII]

Cabal therapy does not target the creature you sacrifice to it, nor can you sacrifice a card in your hand.

Running tinker colossus in this deck seems stupid to me anyways, you never have three mana, and if you do the game should have gone on long enough such that you only have dredge cards in hand.

I think you have misunderstod what I have tryed to explain:
1/End Of Your Opponent's Turn, activate your druid, shuffle back your DSC
2/upkeep, bring back your Ichorid/ ghoul /shadows
3/Draw your DSC
4/attack with your critters and if not enought ->
5/ sacrifice one of your creature to flashback a cabal therapy targeting you and naming DSC (the one you have drawn this turn). Shuffle back your DSC, thus allowing you an other turn to finish the job  .

And by the way, this deck doesn't run Tinker 

I have tried to include CoTV, it fits in the deck's strategie, but I couldn't find a room for it.

[Law]

Theres always that one thing you miss when you play a deck the you miss. That is the type of info that I needed for the next time I do a run with the deck (online and otherwise).
This should have been a private message.
-Jacob

[kombat]

Ummm not that it really matters but i invented that deck.
Nicolae is definitley responsible for the most polished recent list which was arrived at with the help of others in the Wild Zombies thread, we had been talking about it together online but he did all the testing, i only had time to work off theory at the time.

Let me get this straight.  Wizards of the Coast printed some Zombie cards.  You and Nicolae discussed the idea of building a deck that uses Zombies.  Nicolae built a polished list and did all the testing, but you are claiming credit with inventing it?  Sure .... whatever.

When the Dredge mechanic came out in Ravnica, I said to my friends, "I'll bet you could build a really busted deck around this mechanic."  Then someone else did.  So I guess by your logic, I invented Ichorid.

--
Kombat
Inventor of Ichorid.

[meadbert]

Try skullclamp.  I think you will like it.

I had a generally inferior build that abuse Words of Wilding along with Zombie Infestation.

Anyway, with 4 Ashen Ghouls and 4 Nether Shaddows skull clamp is ridiculous.
Draw two extra cards each turn for one colorless.