Welkin effects

[Matt]

It's cute with Charbelcher, for one.

[dandan]

The Blue one thins your deck by 2 cards as it is. Paying UUUU thins your deck by 7 cards!

I resent this being called worse than Leap!!

We have already seen a few suggestions for cards that care about RFGed cards. This 'combos' with them and Wishes. Normally pitching to FoW is not much of an advantage but seeing as Jacob seems to rate a Welkin Focus in hand as highly as a bad smell, it is relevant.  It is also relevant with cards like CotV and IMHO a cheap Blue shuffle effect is rather handy especially with Brainstorm, Sylvan Library and Top. Casual players might very well want to remove a second copy of Future Sight with one in play or 'power up' that Shared Fate deck.

Look at the Focus Mind thread. This Welkin card is a straight(ish) copy of that card with X=0 and Welin effect but nobody is worried about the power level of that card.

Seeing as CC=0 would be daft {u} is as low as it gets and using a number other than 1 breaks the symmetry of the cycle. I grant you Welkin Mind wouldn't break Vintage but aren't you being a touch harsh on the little fella? We've seen some extremely narrow cards in the CCF!

[Jacob Orlove]

Leap gives flying AND cantrips. I resent you implying that this card is anywhere near as good. ;)

Force is *only* available in Legacy and Vintage, and this is not only extra terrible in those formats (a larger cardpool means more stuff that's better than this), but this isn't even very good with Force.

Removing the uncastable cards from your deck is an AWFUL solution to Chalice, especially when you could have been casting Chain of Vapor to bounce it, or Serum Visions type cards to dig for an answer.

Sure, this provides a "free" shuffle. So do tons of much better cards. No one runs Soldier of Fortune, even though he gives you as many shuffles as you want, and a 1/1 body. If people need shuffles, they can run Fetchlands, Tribe Elders, Trinket Mage, etc. There's no need to play a bad card specifically to get the shuffle.

Focus Mind and similar narrow effect are fine, because there's a strong precedent for such cards (One With Nothing, etc). However, cards THAT bad *have* to be rare, just so we don't inflict them on tons and tons of people. This entire cycle is going to be common, because that way it's relevant in limited and people can get enough copies easily. Welkin Focus, though, is not an acceptable common.

[asmoranomardicodais]

I think the blue one should remove 3 cards. That way, even after you use all four, only sixteen cards are out of your deck. This makes it competitive, but not awesome.

[Fall-Titan]

Why not try to make this at least playable, and have it counter a spell... We have disrupt and this would be siimilar only it couldnt target instants or sorceries...

Maybe
Welkin Counter

Counter target creature, enchantment, or artifact spell unless its controller pays
Welkin effect

This acts like a limited force spike early in the game, and late it can ne an overcosted mana leak. Also its pluses are negated by the fact that the surprise of a counterspell in your hand no longer exists.

[Jacob Orlove]

That's a great idea, but hitting all those cards feels very random. I'd say do either Instants+Sorceries (Disrupt), Artifacts+Enchantments (Annul), or Creatures (Remove Soul).

[Fall-Titan]

sure, any of those work... i was just going opposite of disrupt more as a place holder... But the idea was there

[dandan]

You'd beat me round the head with a putrid herring if I suggested that Focus Mind be changed to removing a card from any library, not just yours, wouldn't you?

[Matt]

Well, probably. It would pretty much obsolete [card]Extract[/card] and th "Jester's Cap" ability is pretty much only for rares.

[dandan]

Seeing as only I like Welkin Focus, I'll bow to public pressure and make it Welkin Disrupt.

Disrupt is an extremely good fit as it cost {u} and cantripped. The Welkin Disrupts aren't that much of a surprise (after the first one) but you can use one after another like a wacky Power Sink if necessary.

[Jacob Orlove]

Okay, I have no more real objections, although like I said before, I wouldn't mind if the black effect was a raise dead. It's fine that it isn't, though.

[asmoranomardicodais]

Seeing as only I like Welkin Focus, I'll bow to public pressure and make it Welkin Disrupt.

Disrupt is an extremely good fit as it cost {u} and cantripped. The Welkin Disrupts aren't that much of a surprise (after the first one) but you can use one after another like a wacky Power Sink if necessary.

I liked Welkin Focus! I liked Welkin Focus! I thought it should be powered up to three cards out of the library! Don't forget me!

[dandan]

Two of us against the world. Remember there is still a Focus Mind thread and that card costs X{u} to remove X cards and cantrips so it is pretty close to Welkin Focus anyway.

[Matt]

I liked Focus too but Jacob's right; it would have to be rare.

[dandan]

24 hour clock on these. I don't think the current versions are causing anyone concern.