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Author Topic: [Discussion] SCG Duel for Duals II  (Read 4553 times)
Anusien
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« on: February 06, 2006, 12:25:50 am »

Sorry for not posting at the event, but I played a slow control deck.  I was playing 3C Slide and scrubbed out because I'm a bad player, but the build is solid.

Main event:
Finals was David Gearheart (Reset High Tide) versus Eugene Levin (Mono-R Goblins - correction)
Gearheart was on the play, Levin had to mull to 5 and could only find a Wasteland.  Elgin had a saucy draw and won.
Game two Levin had a better draw but Geartheart had double Blast, double Tide, land, land, cantrip as his draw.  Levin went turn 1 Lackey on the play which got blasted and only had Matron on turn 3.  Gearheart won 2-0.

67 players.

T8:
2x Goblins
Life from the Loam pile (GRB with Devastating Dreams!!)
Enchantress
Rifter
Reset High Tide
BW Confidant
Angel Stompy

T8:
Reset High Tide over Angel Stompy
Rifter over BW Confidant
Vial Goblins over Life from the Loam pile
Vial Vial Goblins over Enchantress

T4:
Reset High Tide over Rifter
Vial Goblins over Vial Goblins

T2:
Reset High Tide over Vial Goblins
« Last Edit: February 07, 2006, 11:52:42 am by Bardo » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2006, 12:44:43 am »

Wow. Talk about a definate metagame shift.

First we have Gencon, with Goblins reigning at the top.
Then we have GP Philly which was once again dominated by Goblins.
Third we have GP Lille, which was a sea of Gro.

Now we have the Duel for Duals, which has absolutely 0 Gro decks in the top eight? Wow, that is what we would call amazing.

What happened?

*Note* It could be that a Gro player made 9th place, or something of that ilk. All I know, and am responding to, is Anusien's post above me.

It is nice to see a combo deck taking the first place spot for once, even if it was reset tide.

The decklist I want to see though is that LftL pile, it sounds like some janky fun.
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2006, 12:45:34 am »

Personally I played 3C Slide.  My list was the posted list, but with Chalices instead of Engineered Explosives in the board.  I played in a side event the day before.  I beat Dredge Tog 2-0, beat Goblins 2-0 and lost to Rec-Sur 2-1.  Although I won game 1 against Rec-Sur even after he Haunting Echoes'd me and removed all my Steppes, my Caves, 3 Rifts (1 in play), 3 Slides (1 in play) and 3 Solitary Confinements.

Play of the side event: He's playing Goblins, and I go turn 2 Wall of Blossoms, turn 3 Astral Slide.  He swings with Piledriver + men and cycles Gempalm Incinerator on Wall of Blossoms.  I slide Piledriver out.

Round 1 RW Goblins
Game 1: I'm on the draw.  I mulligan a one-land Forest hand into a one-land Plains hand with Wall of Blossoms and 2 Sakura-Tribe Elders.  I don't see enough mana and die.
Game 2: On the play I have a weak hand that hits Chalice for 1 on turn 2.  I stablize with STE and 2x Wall of Blossoms and a Lightning Rift, but no cycling lands.  He drops Goblin King and swings for 9, then swings for 11.

Round 2 Burn
Game 1: He gets me to 4 but I get Confinement lock.  He has turn 3 Sulfuric Vortex
Game 2: He gets turn 4-5 Sulfuric Vortex and I don't lock
Game 3: He gets turn 3-4 Sulfuric Vortex but I have Naturalize, and I Confinement lock.  He Anarchies and I play another and burn him out with Rift

Round 3 Teen Titans
Game 1: He gets the turn 1 Careful Study, turn 2 Welder, turn 3 7/10 and I was playing basics
Game 2: I get turn 2 Sacred Ground, Rift, Slide and fat men don't make it into play
Game 3: Turn 2 Sacred Ground He can't find a fatty to save his life; Reanimate on Hapless Researcher, Animate Dead on Hapless Researcher.  I dredge 10+ cards and can't find a cycling land, but eventually I find one and win

Round 4 Life from the Loam Pile
Game 1: I know he's playing Devastating Dreams but don't hold back lands.  He goes double Mox with Life from the Loam gonig and Dreams away all my lands.  I have STE in hand and a Plains, but can't find lands, especially with him Loaming Wasteland
Game 2: Turn 2 Sacred Ground.  I'm in control with Rift x2 and Slide but can't find Loam.  I have Witness recursion but punt this away (this game took forever).  I have Confinement up.  He plays Seismic Assault when he's at 11 and I dumbly let it resolve with 1 Cycling land in hand.  I realize immediately what I did, but it doesn't matter.  I slide witness out, he blasts it, I Rift him to 7.  I let COnfinement die, fail to draw a cycling land or Loam (that's about 10 outs).  He untaps and drops me from 17 to about 9.  I don't draw an out and die, in spite of him having to cycle to get enough lands to kill me (dropping him to 3)

Round 5 Mono-R Goblins
Game 1: I block for a while, and have Rift and Slide in play with Confinement in hand.  I can't find a single cycling land.  I use Confinement to stall for the last possible turn, dont' draw a cycling land and die to lots of piledrivers.
Game 2: I stabilize at 5 with Rift, Slide and 5 mana.  He has 4x Mountain and a Wasteland.  I have double Confinement in hand and Life from the Loam going.  I wrath his board and pass.  He advances his Aether Vial and doesn't play the SGC he Matroned up the turn before.  I put him on Anarchy after having Ringleadered his other one to the bottom of the library, then stupidly play Loxodon Hierarch.  He vials in SGC, uses his only remaining Gempalm Incinerator (boarded out 3) to kill it, untaps, plays the sixth land and kills me even if Hierarch is there.  If he has Anarchy, I lose no matter what, but the Hierarch was the wrong play since it loses to him having land #6 in hand.

2-3 drop, 42nd place
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2006, 12:48:33 am »

I know I'm like quadruple posting, but whatever. (Go nuts man. - Bardo)

I have all the lists but have typed up zero of them.¬  I'm gonna go ahead and put the Life from the Loam pile up because I think it's awesome.¬  The player is a local who's a good player.

3 Wasteland
4 Mox Diamond
2 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Barren Moor
4 Forgotten Cave
3 Tranquil Thicket
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Badlands
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
3 Gamble
3 Life from the Loam
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Burning Wish
3 Devastating Dreams
3 Wall of Blossoms
3 Wall of Roots
3 Eternal Witness
1 Grave-Shell Scarab
3 Seismic Assault
2 Roar of the Wurm

Sideboard: (needs a Devastating Dreams and a Haunting Echoes)
4 Duress
2 Pithing Needle
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Hull Breach
1 Gamble
1 Regrowth
1 Life from the Loam
4 Chalice of the Void

Went 5-1-1, losing to Jack Elgin and drawing in the last round after playing out the match
« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 12:59:14 am by Bardo » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2006, 12:58:41 am »

I think people realized that alot of the decks that were getting less talk are still good.  Life From the Loam looks like a new card that people can do all kinds of things with and will continue to innovate with for quite a bit of time.  As for why there was no Threshold in the Top 8 I think it may have been because everyone was trying to play against Threshold instead of with it.

Edit: Does anyone have the BW list?  (Even if they don't want to post it can they send it to me?)
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2006, 01:04:38 am »

I'm happy that Gearheart won with Solidarity. Maybe now more people will pick up the deck and start beating Goblins with it.

Thanks for the information. Next time build Stax ahead of time!
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2006, 01:23:31 am »

I think the Life from the Loam deck was built overnight, which is why it was done so hastily.  Mulch was almost in the deck...

There were a fair number of Threshold players there, both in UGR and UGW.  I'm not entirely sure why not T8ed.  I know Gearheart managed to miss all of the, but there were some near the top tables.  There was an overabundance of BW Pikula and Survival compared to what I expected initally, which could account for it.

I have all 67 decklists and will be typing them up fairly soon.  The BW Confidant list I think was fairly straight-forward, but there were some Suicide Black lists that eschewed white for Wretches and extra goodies.
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2006, 02:20:46 am »

I am always interested in Survival lists!

I'm torn about Tide's win. On the one hand, it's one of the few Source decks I respect, and good job on out-metagaming the anti-Gro board control decks. On the other hand...Peek? That's a tough one to swallow.
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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2006, 02:27:12 am »

Decklists will be here as they go up:
http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t%5BC1%5D=leg&start_date=2006-02-05&end_date=2006-02-12
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2006, 07:08:08 am »

Wow. Talk about a definate metagame shift.

First we have Gencon, with Goblins reigning at the top.
Then we have GP Philly which was once again dominated by Goblins.
Third we have GP Lille, which was a sea of Gro.


Its not a meta shift at all, its just another tourney.  Just because something performs well or not at a single tourney does not in any way mean that the deck is or is not a part of the metagame at the time.
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2006, 08:35:41 am »

I'm torn about Tide's win. On the one hand, it's one of the few Source decks I respect, and good job on out-metagaming the anti-Gro board control decks. On the other hand...Peek? That's a tough one to swallow.
I'm a big fan of the card.  I ran it in my UGw Thresh deck for a while, along with 4x Meddling Mage and 2x Needle.  At worst it's a 1 mana cantrip that gives you a little Jedi advantage.  At best you know exactly what to play and when, and in Tide, if the coast is clear to go off.
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« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2006, 09:03:02 am »

looks like the meta is still goblins vs. everthing else.¬  The only stable factor in the legacy meta game is that goblins is tier 1.¬  As for reset high tide winning WOW, way to represent the combo.¬  I don't think the deck has the legs to win a bigger event but its still cool.  I also agree that its the only source deck so far that I would consider playing.
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« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2006, 11:50:37 am »

Hi,

I played the BW Control deck in the Top8. Big thanks to Eric for the tiebreakers. Duel for the Duals was my very first Legacy event and the first time I actually played the deck. I just grabbed it from my son before flying to the states and couldn't get my brother to mail me the missing cards in time, that's why I pre-boarded 4xEngPlague main to beat aggro. This did work out perfectly. I beat both Goblindecks that I had to play. Everything else I probably misplayed (like the second game in Top8 match) or misboarded (against Enchantress, having no idea after the first game what his win conditions are). Both Mirrormatches were won on being the first to play out the DarkRitual and Hymning the opponent (for e.g. his only second source of mana).

Great event, great players, I learned a lot and will take lots of new ideas (and the 5 duals Very Happy) back to Germany.
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« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2006, 12:11:46 pm »

Hi,

I played the BW Control deck in the Top8. Big thanks to Eric for the tiebreakers. Duel for the Duals was my very first Legacy event and the first time I actually played the deck. I just grabbed it from my son before flying to the states and couldn't get my brother to mail me the missing cards in time, that's why I pre-boarded 4xEngPlague main to beat aggro. This did work out perfectly. I beat both Goblindecks that I had to play. Everything else I probably misplayed (like the second game in Top8 match) or misboarded (against Enchantress, having no idea after the first game what his win conditions are). Both Mirrormatches were won on being the first to play out the DarkRitual and Hymning the opponent (for e.g. his only second source of mana).

Great event, great players, I learned a lot and will take lots of new ideas (and the 5 duals Very Happy) back to Germany.

Did you find you ever wanted more creature control then Plague?  What I'm sort of hinting to is the maindeck inclusion of Swords to Plowshares.
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« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2006, 01:28:46 pm »

Considering all the other decks beside aggro going around having additional discard with GerrardsVerdict was OK. Optionally I could/should have included 2xDarkblasts instead and would probably have would won one more game against Affinity.

The game I lost went like this: I'm at 10 life. Affinity plays Ravager and  I couldn't block the Ornithop. Sacks everything to the Ravager, dops seven modular on Ornithop sending me to 3 and announces my next draw: Vindicate. With Bob in play that would be lethal. Figure what the top card is: Vindicate Sad
The Plagues did handle the Clerics in all 3 games which was good enough. Even taken one point damage less would have given me a chance to win.

I wouldn't want to include the Swords main since I lost two games because I was missing white mana. Darkblast are a safer bet. And I did win every game in the aggro matchups. I sometimes boarded the Swords for the Plagues because they are cheaper and allow me to handle my own Bob easier.....

Any better ideas on sideboard cards? I think every game I lost I could have won if I knew the decks (like Rifter, Enchantress) would have drawn one white mana source (out of seven draws) against LifeFromTheLoamPile, or played conservatly against Rifter second game instead of trying to force my only turn 1 hyppie of the day (I was just feeling lucky by finally having drawn the two cards necessary but got hit by the Sword).
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« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2006, 02:10:44 pm »

Hi,

I played the BW Control deck in the Top8. Big thanks to Eric for the tiebreakers. Duel for the Duals was my very first Legacy event and the first time I actually played the deck. I just grabbed it from my son before flying to the states and couldn't get my brother to mail me the missing cards in time, that's why I pre-boarded 4xEngPlague main to beat aggro. This did work out perfectly. I beat both Goblindecks that I had to play. Everything else I probably misplayed (like the second game in Top8 match) or misboarded (against Enchantress, having no idea after the first game what his win conditions are). Both Mirrormatches were won on being the first to play out the DarkRitual and Hymning the opponent (for e.g. his only second source of mana).

Great event, great players, I learned a lot and will take lots of new ideas (and the 5 duals Very Happy) back to Germany.
By the way, I saw your deck editor on your decklist.  Is there a link to that program?  I'd like to try it out.

For reference, here is the list you played: http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=15656
Personally, the Negator seems a little off, I'd rather the 4th shade.  I think it does the same job as Negator but at less risk, and you can also board it in against aggro if you need and it can just jump in front of a Piledriver or something.

I don't think you need 4 Planar Void.  That's a saucy little bit of tech right there, and I'm curious how it did for you.  I think obviously though  it was a little bad in the meta.  It was good in about three matchups; my 3C Slide deck, Eric's Life from the Loam list, and CAL.  I'd drop it to 3 or 2 because it should be good, but I'd also consider trying to find another board card.  I just don't know what.

Keep checking the list I posted earlier, as decks are going up.  T16 is now up
« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 02:30:41 pm by Anusien » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2006, 04:30:55 pm »

Your probably right on the 4th Shade. I sided the Negator in for the Enchantress matchup but didn't see it. The PlanarVoids gave me one game against Eric's LifeLoam Deck (actually two of them so that HullBreaching one didn't bring him back into the game). I was hoping for a saucy first round drop against Threshold or Friggorid. I guess PhyrexianFurnace would have worked out better or maybe I should go with Guildpact Cremate/Leyline of the Void for the next event? I 'd prefer Cremate because of the draw effect and usually only very specific cards have to be removed (expect maybe with the Threshold matchup).

I wrote that deck editor myself (playing around with Eclipse RCP applications and playing magic will give you strange ideas Smile ). I'll prepare a fresh release on Sourceforge next week (when I return from the busness trip). I have gotten very little feedback so anybody taking a look at it is welcome. But I have an improved version in use already and have put up no description on Sourceforge yet, so setting it up for the first time takes a little knowledge on how to correctly retrieve the Oracletext for the cards from Wizards. Since I don't want to get into any trouble with them over the artwork I include no pictures (but you can configure the editor to download all the pictures automatically from Gatherer). So far I have found a few errors on Gatherer that were fixed (still broken: Bösium Strip)

Just for reference the link is (and will be) http://sourceforge.net/projects/factorfiction

How do you handle the list entry at the moment? To build deck lists from scratch I added a search and quick add mode that work pretty good for me.
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« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2006, 05:08:49 pm »

How do I handle list entry?  The Ferret wrote a slick deck entry front-end for SCG that I can just type in.

I saw your decklist since I have them all.  It stands out because it uses a different formatting slightly than the actual deck registration sheets, and I don't know if that will get you into trouble or not.  I'm trying to dig up a link so you can have your program spit them out in that format.

Personally, I use Magic Workstation to keep track of decks, but I have a copy of the deck registration sheet in .pdf that can be typed on.
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« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2006, 06:18:50 pm »

I'm torn about Tide's win. On the one hand, it's one of the few Source decks I respect, and good job on out-metagaming the anti-Gro board control decks. On the other hand...Peek? That's a tough one to swallow.
You obviously haven't been following the development of the deck. Gearhart and others have been playing and alternating between Opt and Peek for quite a while now. Peek is actually pretty decent because it allows you to set up in the first 3 turns and get an idea of what your opponent has in his hand, both so you know if you can go off, and if you have to go off that turn.

The real news is how his deck and sideboard have changed from a few months ago. 4 copies of Remand in the main deck is quite interesting, and actually fits really well if you think about it. Gearhart initially touched on their inclusion here. The critical first few turns of any match with and against Solidarity are spent developing board position and tempo, and Remand actually stifles both fairly well while cantripping. Another interesting thing, which he said might be not be that good, is the 4 Disrupt in the sideboard. In a meta filled with BW Confidant, Disrupt is awesome, and probably contributed to him winning the damn tournament.
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« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2006, 11:07:59 pm »

Without getting too detailed or technical or anything, I noticed a few interesting points about the top 8 while I was marking the contest thread.

Mountain and Plains were the most common cards and lands by a wide margin.
Red and White were the most common colours, also by a wide margin.
The most common Dual Land was Plateau (wtf).
WTF of the Top 8: Null Chamber Very Happy.
Burning Wish w/o Pyroclasm is an interesting choice.
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« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2006, 12:56:27 am »

I'm torn about Tide's win. On the one hand, it's one of the few Source decks I respect, and good job on out-metagaming the anti-Gro board control decks. On the other hand...Peek? That's a tough one to swallow.
You obviously haven't been following the development of the deck. Gearhart and others have been playing and alternating between Opt and Peek for quite a while now. Peek is actually pretty decent because it allows you to set up in the first 3 turns and get an idea of what your opponent has in his hand, both so you know if you can go off, and if you have to go off that turn.

The real news is how his deck and sideboard have changed from a few months ago. 4 copies of Remand in the main deck is quite interesting, and actually fits really well if you think about it. Gearhart initially touched on their inclusion here. The critical first few turns of any match with and against Solidarity are spent developing board position and tempo, and Remand actually stifles both fairly well while cantripping. Another interesting thing, which he said might be not be that good, is the 4 Disrupt in the sideboard. In a meta filled with BW Confidant, Disrupt is awesome, and probably contributed to him winning the damn tournament.
Actually, I HAVE been following the deck, which should be "obvious" to anyone reading the very thread you link to. In that very thread, you can see me suggest Disrupt, and lament the fact that Remand was considered new tech by The Source when I'd seen it locally well in advance. I just have a hard time believing Peek is a good card.
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« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2006, 01:58:01 am »

Peek is incredibly good, at least for David Gearheart.  He actually told his Rifter opponent game 2 "Tell me what's in your hand so I can play around it."  Granted, he's a rather bigmouthed player, but it's true.  If he knows his opponent doesn't have the next turn kill (or this turn with Warchief) he knows he might not have to push it this turn, and he can find out exactly what hate his opponent has so he can play around it.  This is also important for sideboarding, if his Goblins opponent has Armaggedons in the main for instance (or even boarded in).
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« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2006, 06:07:58 pm »

But if it's going off at instant speed, why does he need to find out if they have the kill? I thought going off with lethal damage on the stack was one of the big selling points of the deck.
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« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2006, 12:09:25 am »

Well, he doesn't HAVE to go off.  You play Piledriver with a Vial at 3, Peek to find if they have a Warchief at 3 would be techy to know if Piledriver needs to get countered.  It also lets you know what sort of REB/Abeyance/whatever they have to play around.
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