[Discussion] Tangle Wire in Ubastax!

[Evenpence]

EDIT: CURRENT LIST [March 5th, 2006].

UBAWIRE

21 LANDS
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Barbarian Ring
4 Wasteland
1 Strip mine
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Mountain

9 ARTIFACT ACCELERANTS
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald

8 CREATURES
4 Goblin Welder
2 Gorilla Shaman
2 Duplicant

22 ARTIFACT LOCKS
4 Smokestack
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Uba Mask
3 Null Rod
3 Tangle Wire
1 Trinisphere

15 SIDEBOARD
4 Fiery Temper
4 Pyroblast
3 Viashino Heretic
2 Duplicant
2 Maze of Ith

OR:
4 Fiery Temper
3 Viashino Heretic
3 Pyroblast
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Duplicant

Or, in other terms:
Standard 47.
3 Uba Mask
3 Tangle Wire
3 Null Rod
2 Gorilla Shaman
2 Duplicant

EDIT:  So, this deck is my baby.

While posting on www.starcitygames.com , I realized something.

Monkey has long been complained about in Ubastax builds, and while I love the monkey (anyone who's read the primary Ubastax thread here on TMD can tell you that) I think there might be a better replacement:

TANGLE WIRE.

Monkey's main objective is to mop up enemy mana on the draw.

Tangle Wire does that.? However, it doesn't destroy the mana.? Shaman is probably better than Tangle Wire if your opponent has a hand of 3x moxes and you're on the draw with 3x moxes of your own and red mana.? That doesn't happen a whole lot to me.

Monkey has dyssynergy with Chalice at 1.? Tangle Wire doesn't.

I have always been a HUGE fan of Tangle Wire.? Tangle Wire messes up Drain decks.

Right now, we have an insane advantage in the 5c mirror, but it's not because of monkey.? Chalice at 1 is real estate (it's in play every game because of us) and often times, Monkey is just discarded.

Tangle Wire provides more synergy with Welder.

Basically, I've come to the conclusion that Tangle Wire might be absurd.? I'm going to do some testing today and for the rest of the week, and I'll report my findings.? I have almost no doubts, however, that Tangle Wire will be better than Monkey.? I'll be putting 2 of them in, for the monkey slots, and might increase the probability of getting one by taking out a duplicant for a short time.

What do you all think, Ubastax veterans?

EDIT:? Tangle Wire is also amazing against Oath.? We can't say that about Monkey.? We lose something with Monkey, namely the ability to weld out huge artifacts with welder and kill them with monkey.

5c Stax has been running Wire pretty consistently, and has been dropping Monkey pretty consistently.? Alot of versions still play both, however, because the two have synergy (killing moxes makes Tangle Wire more effective).

Perhaps a long term solution is moving either Wire or Monkey to the SB, (or playing 1 of each, which would be peculiar), and siding the two remaining pieces in on the draw.? I always side out Monkeys on the play, and would do the same with Tangle Wire unless playing against Oath or drain-based control.? I always side out monkey on the play.? Always.? Tangle Wire would function as essentially monkies, but they're better against decks that we don't have a distinct advantage over.

I've done the deck analysis in my head so far (this is BRAND NEW), and as far as I can tell, Wire improves bad matchups and doesn't drastically demolish good matchups, especially if we put monkeys in the board (our sideboard is insane diverse, and everyone knows it).

Right now, this is the sideboard I'm thinking of using:

3 Fiery Temper
3 Viashino Heretic
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Maze of Ith
2 Gorilla Shaman (monkey)
1 Duplicant

You can shift around the numbers, of course, T-Crypt doesn't really need to be a 3-of.? I could always make it the 4th Maze, the 4th Temper, the 2nd Duplicant, or even a 3rd Shaman.

DOUBLE EDIT:? Okay, I'm realizing more and more the synergies of this card.? Sphere + Tangle Wire = HOUSE.? Monkey is DEFINITELY getting cut for this card.

TRIPLE EDIT:? Chalice 0cc + Tangle Wire? = HOUSE.? Mix that in with the ability to also play our own moxes and possibly another lock before we play the Wire.? Why didn't we see this card earlier?

My list:

UBAWIRE v.1.2

21 LANDS
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Barbarian Ring
4 Wasteland
1 Strip mine
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Mountain

9 ARTIFACT ACCELERANTS
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald

4 CREATURES
4 Goblin Welder

26 (!) ARTIFACT LOCKS
4 Smokestack
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Uba Mask
3 Null Rod
3 Tangle Wire
1 Trinisphere

15 SIDEBOARD
3 Fiery Temper
3 Viashino Heretic
3 Maze of Ith
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Gorilla Shaman
2 Duplicant

EDIT:? I took the Ancient Tomb out.? As long as I have Shamans in the board, I need 7 red mana sources.

The sideboard for my Meta (which is heavy in Oath) is solidified:

4 Fiery Temper? ? ? ?(I have a 4th Temper just because nothing else would be better for my particular meta)
3 Viashino Heretic
3 Jester's Cap? ? ? ? ?(these can be anything, really, mazes/duplicants, etc)
3 Tormod's Crypt? ? (one of these can go, but I'm a big fan)
2 Gorilla Shaman

What I'll be running in Richmond, however, is undecided.

3 Fiery Temper
3 Viashino Heretic
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Gorilla Shaman

This is the core of the sideboard, for me.

That leaves five slots.

Potential targets for those five slots are:

Adding multiples to cards in the core.
Maze of Ith
Duplicant
Jester's Cap
Shattering Spree
Pyroblast (I hate this card)
Pryoclasm (Isn't that vierd?)

Vierd Pyroclasm, I know.? Why?? Aggro and Dark Confidant type decks.? If someone gets out a dark confidant on me, it usually results in game unless they kill themselves.? It's not very good with the deck though.? It probably won't get put on the board.? Ever.

I expect Tendrils combo to do very well at Richmond, actually, and I want to metagame for it, so I might have to add in Pyroblasts for it to be effective.

I would have to do a 4-of, or at least a 3-of if I were to add pyroblast back into the sideboard, giving me 1, or at best, 2 slots for other things.

Maze can be anything from a 2-of to a 4-of to be effective.
Duplicant can only be effective in the SB as a singleton or a 2-of.? I don't want 6cc guys in my opening hand.
Duplicant is also arguably the worst thing in the sideboard.? I don't expect Oath at Richmond in high numbers.

With that being said, I'm fairly sure that this will be my sideboard for Richmond:

3 Fiery Temper
3 Viashino Heretic
3 Pyroblast
2 Shattering Spree
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Gorilla Shaman

Pyroblast counters forces/drains for chalice at 2 (okay, that's going to be hard to do, I know), and also counters rebuild.? I'm just going to expect to lose to Oath, and not do anything special.? I'll try for Chalice at 2 every game, and then try to follow it up for Chalice at 3 (rushing river) and hope to hell they don't have a Chain of Vapor.

I admit having a 5-10% chance at a deck is horrible, but if all the other decks are improved by the SBing, I'm fine with that.? Pyroblast is regrettably subpar, but it's been good for me before, save drawing it with Chalice at 1 or off Ubazaar.? I might choose to switch them out for something against Oath, like Jester's Caps, or 2 maze/1 duplicant.

ALSO, FOR FUTURE REFERENCE ON THIS THREAD:
Instead of writing out:
4 Smokestack
4 Crucible
4 Chalice
4 Welder

Everyone knows that every good Ubastax list has 4 of each of these, and other numbers vary.  Because of this, I am nicknaming these four cards the "LOCK 16."

So we have the "MANABASE 30" comprised of 21 Lands and 9 Artifact Mana, and the "LOCK 16" comprised of Welder and his buddies.

This will make it easier for people to talk about the differences in their build without writing out all that crap.

[PucktheCat]

I hadn't thought of this change, but it doesn't seem like a bad idea on its face.  Pithing Needle will love you for it, but it will improve aggro and Oath matchups.  And, of course, your insane Chalice for 1 will help against Pithing Needles.

It is sure worth a test, anyway.

[Evenpence]

I've never lost a game due to Pithing Needle.  I stand by that statement with all authority.  I would LOVE it if decks plays Pithing Needle over welder kill, like lava dart or darkblast.  I would be absolutely ecstatic.  I've read Vroman's same sentiment once or twice.

[Komatteru]

You have too many lock components.  Yes, there is such a thing as this.  You're going to end up locking yourself out of the game far more often than you'd imagine.  You're too reliant on Workshop, and too reliant on having a ton of permanents on the table quickly.  If you do something like drop SoR, and then a Chalice, and a Tangle Wire, your opponent's Wasteland will just lock you out of the game for a good 3 turns.

[Evenpence]

If I did play a SoR, a Chalice (I think we're assuming 0 here with me with no moxes), and a Tangle Wire,

I wouldn't be locked out at all, because I could just tap the Chalice, SoR, and Tangle Wire.

Moreover, I'm not going to play the Tangle Wire if my opponent has 0 permanents.

Quote me on this:  There is absolutely no more risk to being locked out of the game due to a wasteland with Wires substituted for Shamans.

Simply based upon the amount of permanents Ubastax has in the deck (that is, 60), we can abuse Tangle Wire better than any deck in the format.  Period.  Better than 5c Stax.  Gorilla Shaman is essentially a lock as well, JD.  I don't know what else it could be really considered.  It's activated destruction of small artifacts.  Tangle Wire is triggered tapping of anysize artifacts.

Gorilla Shaman is a 1 mana, 1/1 lock against artifacts, which requires mana that just happens to be a creature as well.  Tangle Wire is a 3 mana lock against permanents (not just artifacts), that requires no mana.  The downside is late in the game, if your opponent has alot of permanents, it does virtually nothing, (but neither does Gorilla Shaman, because you have Chalice at 1 up by then), and doesn't actually destroy permanents.  Smokestack does a fine enough job of destroying stuff.  With Sphere + Tangle Wire, it should be easy enough to play a Welder to weld the smokestack in, or just simply play the actual smokestack.

I think this is a huge improvement to the deck.

Btw, as an offshoot which really shouldn't matter all that much:  It also makes opponent's trinispheres not do as much.  Take my Travis example.  I was ACTUALLY HOLDING A GORILLA SHAMAN.  Had I been holding a Tangle Wire and a Workshop, I would have played them, tapping the Trinisphere, and being able to play all my moxes.

EDIT:  The deck is slightly more dependant on Workshop now, however.  With 2 Tangle Wires, it's not as bad, but taking out a Duplicant isn't necessarily a bad thing.  Null Rod will become a tad bit less effective, because you'll want the mana to cast Tangle Wire VERY occasionally.  Taking out a Duplicant decreases the dependance on Workshop, and improves starting hands, especially on the play.

It's easier to drop a Tangle Wire off a Bazaar than a Shaman, however, because you can't get a Shaman back.  A Tangle Wire, however, can be welded back in.  Bazaar becomes better with this build as well, I believe, because the ability to have multiple tangle wires in play (or switch between two wires) is very good.  Especially with a ramped Stax.

Welder becomes better as well, even though the Monkey+Welder trick will become less exaggerated.

UbaWIRE is better than Ubastax on the draw (much better) and is insane on the draw when siding in Monkeys.

I might opt for a 1 Monkey, 2 Wire, 1 Duplicant configuration.  I might take Duplicant out all together now, however, and do a combination of things.

4 Wire.
3 Wire, 1 Monkey.
3 Wire, 1 Maze.
2 Wire, 2 Monkey.
2 Wire, 1 Monkey, 1 Maze.

I think out of these configurations, 3 Wire, 1 Maze might be the path to take.  There's still alot of optimizing to be done, although I do think Wire being added to the deck is a severe improvement.

Changes to the feel of the deck with Wires:

1)  Slightly more workshop dependant.  This is slight, because you're not going to play Wire until your second turn if you're on the play, and if you're on the draw, you have a chance of hitting one more often, but you also might hit 2 moxes in that time.
2)  Less red mana dependant.  This is a good thing.  I hated holding shamans in my hand with no red mana to cast them but a ton of stuff to abuse them with.  (this happens more than you might think, same with welders)
3)  Sphere of Resistance becomes much more important.  A very good thing.
4)  Drain-based decks are now even easier for us to beat, primarily because they don't pack wastelands to hurt our workshops.
5)  Random jank and aggro take a big hit from Tangle Wire.
6)  Null Rod is dyssynergistic with Tangle Wire, allowing enemies to tap moxes and not lands, although Gorilla Shaman was dyssynergistic with Null Rod too, Tangle Wire is slightly (very slightly) more so.
7)  Our bad matchups are very much improved.  VERY MUCH IMPROVED.
8)  Our good matchups are for the most part improved as well.  The 5c matchup is hurt, but not very much, as chalice for 1 is more important.
9)  Our sideboard is now more diverse (I didn't think that was possible).
10)  People fear us on the draw now moreso than ever.

[yespuhyren]

As good as the 2x gorilla shaman are in the deck, has anyone else had some issues with them and wished that they were something else?

Personally, as great as they are, I'm going to test

-2 Shaman
+1 Resistor
+1 Uba

The only time I've really liked my shaman is if I already have a welder in play.  Without the welder, and without my opponent dropping 2/3 moxes and me having 2/3 mana, he's been doing little but attacking for me. 

This is my beef with Shaman from the original UbaStax thread, and although I tested without them, it didn't seem to make a large difference.  I really like adding wire to increase lock components, and I'm going to test the following

-2 Shaman
-1 Duplicant
+3 Wire

SB

3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Viashino Heretic
3 Duplicant
2 MazeIth
4 Fiery Temper

[vroman]

this idea has potential.
Ive never really liked tanglewire bc
- w/o welder it has a limited life expectancy. voluntarily losing permanents is against the stax master plan. this is the same reason I will never play gemstone mine; and most the time would rather have mana crypt in my opening hand than black lotus.
- its worthless on the play. if I get this hand [workshop, tangle, 2xwaste, smoky, uba, welder] and dont know what Im up against; I have to either muligan or do something really weak like leading w wasteland, pass. of course it would not help much if the tangle was a shaman. however, turn 1 mtn + shaman, pass; at least might convince them not to play their moxes and develop slowly.
-its a tempo card, not board/card advantage. its better in aggro decks. like dropping turn 1 juggernaut, followed by turn 2 tangle probably wins the game, against anything but combo.

however tangle wire has great synergy w smokestack, since you control the stacking order; you mak them sack first and tap second. if in the stax mirror and one player has smoky, and the other has tangle, make sure you pay attention to active/non-active stacking rules.

I will try this:

manabase identical
4 welder
4 smoky
4 chalice
4 crucible
4 resistor
3 uba
3 tangle
2 null rod
1 trisphere
1 mazith
side
4 fiery temper
3 visheretic
2 tormod
2 nrod
2 mazith
2 dup

moxmonkeys completely off the team, but being able to bring in quad nrod should cover for it. Im not sold on this, but its worth testing. another thing to consider is that barbarian ring has become essentialy the only win condition. its theoreticaly possible in a long atrition game to lose all 4 welders, and all 4 crucibles, and then victory is impossible. lets hope no one is playing Sowing Salt.

[PucktheCat]

I've never lost a game due to Pithing Needle.  I stand by that statement with all authority.  I would LOVE it if decks plays Pithing Needle over welder kill, like lava dart or darkblast.  I would be absolutely ecstatic.  I've read Vroman's same sentiment once or twice.

If this is accurate (you have never lost a game to Needle) you haven't played enough games against Needle.

Without Shaman in the deck Needle is strictly superior to Welder kill like Lava Dart or Darklast.  The first one stops all the Welders in your deck (unless you wipe the board with Smokestack, in which case you have already won).  The second one stops any of a number of important cards in your deck, from Wasteland to Bazaar.

That isn't saying this is a bad idea.  Gifts is generally considered a good matchup for you, so trading a little Gifts strength for a little aggro, etc strength isn't a terrible plan.  But make no mistake that that is what you are doing.

[Evenpence]

I think Needle is just horrible, and here's the reason why:

I play a welder or two.  They play Pithing Needle naming Welder.  Okay.  They play another needle naming Bazaar.  Okay.

I get a smokestack into play.  They sacrifice Pithing Needle before they sac 2 blue mana.  I start going nuts.

I've played plenty of games with Pithing Needle, where Needle has hurt me, but not decimated me.  I've only taken it out with Gorilla Shaman 10 or so times anyway.

I think Tangle Wire is better against Gifts than Gorilla Shaman anyway.  No drain mana.

[vroman]

I originaly was unimpressed w needle, but after bringing gifts back into my testing circle w the new builds that incorporate maindeck needle, Im sold. you have to remember, gifts is a fast deck, by drain archetypal standards. turning off welder for just a few turns, or protect early duals from wastelands, or just slowroll needle to nail mazith after tinkering. needle is not a good long term answer for control decks like slaver, but its an incredibly efficient short term answer in a deck that only needs to grab a single opening to explode.

[PucktheCat]

Evenpence, I like you a lot and I generally respect the comments you make, but you are totally wrong about this.

I get a smokestack into play.  They sacrifice Pithing Needle before they sac 2 blue mana.  I start going nuts.

The only reason a good player would sac Needle over a mana source is if it gives them an advantage to do so.  That is to say, except in the very rare situation where having UU available is more important than preventing Welder activations, the play you describe above is a mistake by the Gifts player, not a weakness of Pithing Needle.  Having the choice to sac the Needle is in fact a virtue of the card.  If they had played Darkblast instead of the Needle they wouldn't have the choice of sacing it over the mana and if the (rare) situation came up where the could win that turn if they preserved a mana source they would be forced to sac the mana source and be unable to take advantage of the opportunity.

I guess an addendum to my original statement is in order:

Without Shaman in the deck Needle is strictly superior to Welder kill like Lava Dart or Darklast as long as you don't punt the game by sacing it.

Giving your opponent's choices is sometimes fine because bad players make bad choices, but it is not the way to win tournaments, because the good players make good choices.

[Komatteru]

No one has pointed out how rough Tangle Wire is for you in the Stax mirror.  If you have no Stack, and your opponent has one, you get to sac and then tap, and your opponent gets to sacrificed tapped permanents.

[yespuhyren]

I've also been testing with 4 wires and 0 spheres, and a lot of the control matchups are a lot more favorable for me, and I don't need to be as dependant on workshop.  Whether or not it is worse we'll find out, but for now, I'm keeping it.  I really like the configuaration with wires

[Evenpence]

Maybe I should respect the needle a little more than my experience has lent itself to.

The funny thing is that I win that situation in both cases, though.  If he has only one mana source and a pithing needle, and I have a ramped stax, I think that's pretty well game already.  If not, I can just ramp the stax higher and clear the board, or even welding out stax and clearing my opponent's board but not my own.

Pithing Needle is really only dangerous at multiples, where they can get Welder AND Bazaar.  Shaman helps with killing them, but take for example my games with Travis.  A ton of times (probably four or five games), he had a pithing needle naming Bazaar in play, and I put down a chalice at 1 with no Welder.  I think I won all of those games.  Needle just doesn't scare me.  Maybe it should.

About the stax mirror:  Tangle Wire gets sided out because it blows.  Usually you don't really want to play Tangle Wire unless you have the stax, or you've got it pretty well wrapped up, want to win a small welder war, etc.

I also need to review on the active/non-active player stack rulings, as I never really played with Wire extensively before.  Thanks for that bit of advice though, JD.

As much as I love your list Vroman, I think I'm still going to go with 3 Null Rod MD and 3 Sphere MD.  2 Shamans in the board.  Shaman and Wire have good synergy.  This also gives me more outs against 5c Stax, which will be harder to beat with Wires in the place of Shamans.

Shamans are also better with sphere than null rod is, as Null Rod cuts off your ability to use the moxes to power through the resist orbs.  Shaman just gets better with increasing moxen numbers.

I think my sideboard is where I'm staying for right now.  I like 3 Fiery Temper, as it gets around chalice for 1, and is in high enough numbers of multiples to see at least one every game, but usually not have more than 1 in your opening hand.  I like the number 3 when it comes to utility.

I'll post more later.  Thanks for the discussion!

[PucktheCat]

Of course you can win in both cases, Evenpence, you have posited an almost impossible scenario for the Gifts player.  If you get a Gifts player in that situation it doesn't matter what Welder hate they are playing - if they don't drop a bunch of moxes or remove the Smokestack they lose.  I will say it again.  If you clear the board with Smokestack you have already won.  Whether you have active Welders at that point is pretty moot.

[forests failed you]

I really like playing Shamans in multiples in my Stax lists.  he is a gigantic threat against Slaver and Gifts, as he unequalizes permenents and can cut them off Mana and permenents that they need.  I actually really like the interaction between having Shamans and Chalices in a Stax deck because it makes it difficult for opponents to play their game correctly.  Should they hold moxes for fear of shaman or drop them for fear of Chalice?  Especially against Gifts decks, that generally don't play Shaman this interaction seems really strong.  Especially in Uba Stax Wire seems like a nice fit, maybe as a two of, because you can dig so much in the later game to find it if you need it.  Wire is also really saucy against aggro decks like Birdshit and Fish, because it turns off their attack step in the early game and allows you to have a higher life total if and when they stabalize against your early game lock components.  This is helpful because by the time they get trhough a wire you can have welder tricks or bigger better threats dow n on the board.

[Evenpence]

Shaman definitely gets sided in against Gifts.  I want Shaman more than I do Null Rod in that matchup.  (Well, not really.  They're about equal I suppose.)

Vroman's list would be 10x better vs. Slaver than mine, as he has 2 Null Rod in the board.

Vroman's list is PERFECT for what it wants to do, and he got it first try.

I wouldn't even bring in Shamans vs. Slaver because I want a sick Chalice at 1 against Slaver, and Tangle Wire is more important on the draw to keep you off drain mana.

That said, Vroman's list is probably the best Ubastax (UbaWire) list ever against Slaver.

On the play, Wires and Shamans get sided out on the play anyway.

I might eventually actually play Vroman's list, with monkies completely off the team.  (although if I do anything for now, it would be having the same maindeck as Vroman, with 1 Null Rod and 1 Monkey in the board).

Thanks for your insight though, Brian.

On a completely unrelated note:

Now that Shamans aren't in the deck, we could (if we wanted to) cut a mountain.  That would leave us with six red lands, instead of seven.

This would also be the 4th Sphere, or 3rd Null Rod.

Actually, this would be best for Vroman, because that frees up a SB slot then.

Red Creature Ratio to Red Mana Ratio pre-Wire for Vroman w/3 mountains:  6/7.
Red Creature Ratio to Red Mana Ratio post-Wire for Vromanw/2 mountains:  4/6.

The ratio is actually better now.  Vroman, IMHO, you should cut a mountain for the 3rd Null Rod, freeing up a SB slot.

In fact, that idea sounds so good, I'm going to do it myself, only I'll be adding in the 4th Sphere.

I like the monkies in the SB, because they work extremely well with Tangle Wire, far better than Null Rod.  I'll probably put one in the board, although I might keep both of them.

[PucktheCat]

If you cut a mountain, consider whether some colorless source might be playable in its place.  Ancient Tomb comes to mind.  I would be surprised if this deck wanted to actually lose stable mana sources now that it is running multiple Spheres and multiple Rods.  Tomb could act as a 5th Workshop, albiet a bad one against aggro.

[Evenpence]

I considered doing that.  I've tested Ancient Tomb in the past, and it's been very good for me.  I might just go back to that plan.  As a singleton it works really well.  Another idea is to cut the singleton Duplicant (or Maze Ith) for Ancient Tomb, so we can run a 4/3 configuration of Spheres/Null Rods.

We could even play 3/3 (which I think is superior to 4/2) and run two ancient tombs.

[meadbert]

manabase identical
4 welder
4 smoky
4 chalice
4 crucible
4 resistor
3 uba
3 tangle
2 null rod
1 trisphere
1 mazith
side
4 fiery temper
3 visheretic
2 tormod
2 nrod
2 mazith
2 dup

I don't know about the token Maze Of Ith.  With no tutoring and no wheel are you going to have it when you need it.  It might show up when you really don't need it.
Maybe keep a third Null Rod instead?  It seems dropping from 5 to only 2 main deck Mox hate might have been too much, unless you are planning on setting Chalice to 0 most of the time.

[meadbert]

You have too many lock components.  Yes, there is such a thing as this.  You're going to end up locking yourself out of the game far more often than you'd imagine.  You're too reliant on Workshop, and too reliant on having a ton of permanents on the table quickly.  If you do something like drop SoR, and then a Chalice, and a Tangle Wire, your opponent's Wasteland will just lock you out of the game for a good 3 turns.

Tangle Wire does not really increase reliance on Workshop.  You don't usually want to drop Tangle Wire turn 1 anyway.  By turn two you have two lands and presumably a mox.  If we have locked ourselves out of the game then presumably our opponent is also locked out.

The example above only shows how good Tangle Wire is in this deck.

WIth Chalice, Null Rod, Smokestack, Uba Mask and Crucible there are a ton of harmless artifacts to tap to Tangle Wire.  It is a win win win.  The only draw back is that we lose a permanent but this barely counts.  The only way that is a draw back is if a smokestack come out more than 4 Turns after Tangle Wire.  A smokestack sooner means we can sack Tangle Wire to the smokestack. 

Although this is a slow deck, most opponents are not slow.  The potential loss of a permanent in four turns is inconsequencial compared to the impact of tapping out your oppoenent the next two turns.

[meadbert]

I have been testing the list Robert Vroman proposed but I replaced Maze with a 3rd Null Rod.

It turns out that Tangle Wire and Uba Mask work well when in play at the same time.

Basically since an opponent is almost tapped out for 2-3 turns they lose those draws if they are not lands or 0cc artifacts.
The Tangle Wire barely effects us because we never have to tap more than 3 permanent 2 it and we have atleast 2 (Tangle Wire, Uba Mask) that we can tap painlessly.
At worst we tap one permanent once.

This is another reason to play Tangle Wire in Uba Stax.

I never missed maze, but I haven't played Oath yet.  I most played against 5c Stax and Flamevault Gifts.

Pithing needle annoyed me several times but I always won anyway.  When it comes down it feels terrible, but all it did was buy gifts a little time.

[Moxlotus]

Without Duplicants maindeck isn't this deck just autolosing to Oath?  I know Tanglewire is a bitch for Oath, but Dupe is insane against Oath.

[nataz]

I think with most of my ubastax variants, I've basicly given up on game 1 v. oath + hevey aggro. Having only 1 or two dups maindeck isnt even that good w/out other dedicated hate or an active welder, and Dup is really only good in the Oath match-up. Against random aggro/fishy I'd honestly rather just have Jens for a host of reasons. So, currently I'm taking out the 1 (sometimes 2) dups in  the MB of my Uba-variants, and looking more to the SB for games 2-3.

[yespuhyren]

My SB has 3 Dup 3 Maze in it against oath.  Tangle wire has been great for me, and its definitely not getting cut for a while.

[Evenpence]

The results are in for me, at least:

TANGLE WIRE IS THE SHIZZLE.

You're right, meadbert, I had not realized the Uba Mask + Tangle Wire synergy.  It's actually won me games.

MoxLotus - Game 1 is only lost if they actually get a creature out. (to which a singleton Duplicant or Maze doesn't help anyway, because they can just use Orchard again.  Duplicant is better because it's re-weldable, but the primary objective is just to not let thm play Oath.  It's a problem matchup period, so a single (or even 2) pieces MD really don't help.  Post board, I think we have a distinct advantage, however, siding in Mazes AND Duplicants.  We should win games 2 and 3, and if we don't, that's fine.   I've come to the same conclusion Nataz has, game 1 versus Oath is just a loss, and we should dedicate the slot to other things, such as the 3rd Null Rod.

Tangle Wire has been absolutely insane with Shaman.  There is no way I am cutting Shaman from the board now that I've tested the two together.

EDIT:  I won seven straight games against Gifts today, ALL thanks to Tangle Wire.  I repeat EVERY GAME came down to if I had Tangle Wire or not.

Most of the time it came down to him having a ton of lands and no artifact mana.

In one case, unless I played Tangle Wire, I would have lost, as he had just drained an Uba Mask I had, and was holding Gifts/Will in his hand.  He had zero artifact mana (thanks to Shaman) and three basic islands.  The only thing that can save me is Wire.

I play Wire, he allows it, he burns for four as he didn't draw a blue source.  I win the game.

DOUBLE EDIT:

I'm in a Oath heavy meta, so my actual list looks alot different than this, with 2 Null Rod MD and 3 Duplicant MD.  However, I'm posting it as a general all-around meta list, and the list I'll probably be taking to Richmond (and Philly on Saturday).

[yespuhyren]

Since I started testing it, I've been playing with 4 wires.  Its just incredible with welder, being able to lock them so efficiently, and with 2 welders, its even more nuts.  Realistically, resistor slows you both down for the whole game.  The thing I like MORE about tangle wire, is it really only slows your opponent down, and even though its only for a few turns, you should have enough time to drop some more lock components.  From my testing, Wire has been MUCH stronger for the deck that SOR

[Evenpence]

Same here.  I've actually considered cutting Sphere of Resistance for more consistency in other pieces, as well as bringing the Monkey back in.  This is the current list I have without Resist Orbs:

UBAWIRE v.1.3  (with no spheres)

21 LANDS
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Barbarian Ring
4 Wasteland
1 Strip mine
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Mountain

9 ARTIFACT ACCELERANTS
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald

7 CREATURES
4 Goblin Welder
2 Gorilla Shaman
1 Duplicant

23 (!) ARTIFACT LOCKS
4 Smokestack
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
3 Uba Mask
3 Null Rod
1 Trinisphere
0 Sphere of Resistance

15 SIDEBOARD
3 Fiery Temper
3 Viashino Heretic
3 Maze of Ith
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Duplicant
2 SOMETHING

I like the version with spheres better for now, as it's generally a ton better against control and combo, as well as slaver.  The mox monkeys maindeck with Tangle Wire are insane though.

Benefits to v.1.3 with no resist orbs:

No dyssynergy with resist orbs.
Not as dependant on Workshop.
Tangle Wire MUCH more effective with monkies.
Better against Oath because of MD Duplicant/4 Wire.
2 Free SB slots.
This deck is INSANE on the draw.  Absolutely nuts.

Detriments to v.1.3 with no resist orbs:

Chalice for 1 is much worse.
The deck is worse against combo.
Worse on the play.  MUCH worse on the play.
Less early game disruption.  (resist orbs helped alot)
Less artifact locks.
More mana dependant.
Null Rod is worse.
No Ancient Tomb.  This card is so much better than Duplicant.

Generally, I could go either way, although I do like the version with spheres better, as it's stronger on the play, and really doesn't have any problems with it, aside the Game 1 Oath match (where we have no chance if they get an Oath out).

I'm going to compare Sphere of Resistance (Resist Orb, Resistor, SoR, Sphere, Orb, 1-Ball) with Tangle Wire (Wire).  Because I'm comparing them to one another, I'm just going to list how they are better than one another, and worse, etc.

Sphere of Resistance:

+  Exponentially better against Combo.
+  Worse against Oath.
+  Great with Stax.
+  Good with Monkey.
+  Good on the play.
+  Good against control.  (Drains aren't affected that much, but FoW is.)
+  Slightly lower casting cost than Tangle Wire.
+  Never diminishes.
+  Has cumulative effects which can be game-breaking.

-  Effects are not one-sided.  It hurts you.
-  Bad with Null Rod.
-  Workshop dependant.
-  Mox dependant.

Tangle Wire:

+  Is virtually one-sided.  Sphere is not.
+  Who cares about Workshop?
+  INSANE with Monkey.  Much better than Sphere.
+  Insane on the draw.  INSANE.
+  Insane with Stax.  Much better than Sphere when both are ramped.
+  Insane with Welder.  Sphere does nothing with Welder.
+  Better against control.  (FoW isn't affected that much, but Drain is).
+  Better against Oath.
+  Better against random jank aggro.

-  Worse against 5c Stax.
-  Horrible with Null Rod.  HORRIBLE.
-  Diminishes over time.
-  Welder dependant.
-  Cumulative effects are not impressive.

I'll add more to the list later.  However, we can see that generally, both offer more positives than negatives to the deck.  They also work well with each other.  They both don't like Null Rod very much.  Sphere is better with a Null Rod out than Tangle Wire, assuming you have a lead, as it's harder for the opponent to cast things than just tapping his moxes.

Based on my testing, I actually have to say that Wire is better than Sphere.  However, I don't believe that cutting Sphere is the right path to take.  Cutting Null Rods for Gorilla Shaman might actually be the path to take, although that hurts Chalice at 1, and takes out one of the best format-hosers ever.  It also makes our combo matchup much worse, but our control matchup pretty much a bye.  I don't think that's the way to go (we want to be good against the whole field, not insane against some decks, and just okay against others).

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A sample list with no Null Rods would look like this:

UbaWire v.1.4  (No Null Rods MD)

Same Lands/Artifact Accel as v.1.3, 3 mountains, no ancient tomb.

7 CREATURES
4 Goblin Welder
2 Gorilla Shaman
1 Duplicant  (this can be a 3rd Gorilla Shaman as well)

23 ARTIFACT LOCKS
4 Smokestack
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Tangle Wire
3 Uba Mask
1 Trinisphere

15 SIDEBOARD
3 Null Rod
3 Fiery Temper
3 Viashino Heretic
2 Maze of Ith
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Duplicant

It's worth noting that this list looks more like a 5c List than a typical Ubastax list.  This list also probably loses to 5c Stax.  If not, then it's pretty close to 50/50.  This list is also worse against combo than v.1.0-3.

The improved matchups are Oath and Random Jank.  If your meta is filled with random jank and Oath, you should drop the Null Rods and play this list.  Otherwise, I don't think it's a good idea to cut Null Rods in favor of Gorilla Shamans.  Oath isn't even really improved all that much by doing this.  I think the Gifts matchup might also be better as well, as Tangle Wire will be more effective.  Random Jank and Gifts are probably the only matchups that I can say might be better.  (Gifts probably isn't better either, especially as Null Rod needs to be dealt with for the most part, and Gorilla Shaman doesn't).

I'm very happy with v.1.2, with spheres/wires and no monkies, but 2 monkies in the board, and I think that is the optimal list right now.  You all can discuss what you think the merits are of the other pieces as well.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here's an interesting idea:

Same Manabase as v.1.2., 3 mountains, 30 sources w/bazaar included in lands.

UBAWIRE v.Everything 1.0

21 LANDS
9 ARTIFACT ACCELERANTS

5 CREATURES
4 Goblin Welder
1 Gorilla Shaman

25 (!) ARTIFACT LOCKS
4 Smokestack
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Sphere of Resistance
3 Uba Mask
3 Null Rod
3 Tangle Wire
1 Trinisphere

15 SIDEBOARD
3 Fiery Temper
3 Viashino Heretic
3 Maze of Ith
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Duplicant
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Sphere of Resistance

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here's another list:

UBAWIRE v.Everything 1.1

21 LANDS
9 ARTIFACT ACCELERANTS

6 CREATURES
4 Goblin Welder
2 Gorilla Shaman

24 (!) ARTIFACT LOCKS
4 Smokestack
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Sphere of Resistance
3 Uba Mask
2 Null Rod
3 Tangle Wire
1 Trinisphere

15 SIDEBOARD
3 Fiery Temper
3 Viashino Heretic
3 Maze of Ith
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Duplicant
2 Null Rod

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

VROMAN will probably like the following list the most though:

UBAWIRE v.VROMAN MIGHT LIKE THIS

21 LANDS
9 ARTIFACT ACCELERANTS

5 CREATURES
4 Goblin Welder
1 Gorilla Shaman

25 ARTIFACT LOCKS
4 Smokestack
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Uba Mask
3 Tangle Wire
2 Null Rod
1 Trinisphere

15 SIDEBOARD
3 Fiery Temper
3 Viashino Heretic
3 Maze of Ith
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Duplicant
2 Null Rod

You'll notice that in all these versions, there is no Maze or Duplicant main, and that Gorilla Shaman has made his way back into the deck, usually just as a 1-of, but sometimes a 2-of.

The best version of the deck might be something I haven't even posted yet, which is the same basic list as the one you see above, with 2 Wires, 3 Null Rods, and a Shaman MD, with a Shaman and a Wire SB.

The addition of all of the locks maindeck, mean that this has the most amount of diversity of locks, but the smallest amount of redundancy.  Also, Chalice at 1 is no longer absolutely sick in the second version of UbaWire Everything 1.1.

However, the first version is worth keeping, as I might.  Having a Gorrila Shaman Maindeck might be worth it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, something for everyone's consideration:

Duplicant is in the board almost completely for Oath.  He's good against random jank too, but Oath is the primary reason.  Maze is also in the board against primarily Oath, although it has it's place against random Jank.

I'm going to be considering moving both Mazes and Duplicants out for Jester's Cap.  Why?  Because Jester's Cap OWNS Oath.  It really is only good in that matchup, however, and does nothing against random jank aggro or fish.  However, with Tangle Wire, I don't know if Fish will really be a problem matchup, as it was already easy before (and Wire only helps solidify it).

I think Jester's Cap might be the way of the future for this deck.  In my testing, is has been absurdly good.  In fact, I play with 3 SB for my local meta, which is filled with Oath.  Needless to say, I don't lose against Oath very often.  Games 2 is always mine (I don't know if I've lost one yet) with me occasionally winning game 1 (chalice at 2 is SICK), and occasionally losing game 3 (it's our worst matchup).

It's a very narrow card, however and is only sided in against Oath (I sided it in against Gifts and Slaver for a while, but that's just bad, so I stopped doing it).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wire is incredible.  I wish I could fit in a 4th.  However, logic tells me that playing a 4/3 configuration of Resist Orbs to Wires is correct, because the Spheres have cumulative effects which are actually useful.  Wire's cumulative effects, well, suck.

The above combinations of cards can be tweaked and modded to however people like, and I don't know if there's really a 'wrong' configuration.  I personally will probably play with only 3 Spheres MD, 1 possibly in the SB.

[yespuhyren]

I think Jester's Cap might be the way of the future for this deck.? In my testing, is has been absurdly good.? In fact, I play with 3 SB for my local meta, which is filled with Oath.? Needless to say, I don't lose against Oath very often.? Games 2 is always mine (I don't know if I've lost one yet) with me occasionally winning game 1 (chalice at 2 is SICK), and occasionally losing game 3 (it's our worst matchup).

I probably spent more than a month just trying to fit in the Jcaps maindeck, and I really liked it, but had to SB the rods.  I talked to Diceman about this at our Vintage Champs in the beginning of December.  We both thought it could be a bomb against some Gifts/CS/Oath, but the problem is, that Null Rod has proved to be stronger stronger against Gifts and CS than Jcap has in the testing I've done, and trust me, I wanted to fit it in bad, so I tested A LOT .

In my metagame, however, I usually see a lot of aggro decks, tons of fish, FCG, etc.  Therefore, removing the Rods from the MD and boarding them would allow me to gear my deck against the random aggro decks, as well as letting me play win condition/beef like Karn or Trike, as well as making 1/2 MD caps a much stronger option, as you then have caps and/or rods against a deck life Gifts or CS, which is risky to have both MD, but, like Diceman said to me at the time, if you can put them together, your hosing yourself.  If you can pull it off, your awesome.

[Evenpence]

Yeah, what I said was an exaggeration about the future.

They've been absurdly successful for me in my metagame, which is comprised of 40% Oath.

I'll SBing 3 Jester's Cap at Blue Bell in a week.  (that too is a Oath-heavy meta).  I'll let everyone know how I do with this build.