Sideboarding with GWS Oath

[Moxlotus]

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/11409.html

However, the thing that makes me cringe is when I see the sideboards...

On message boards, I see people giving terrible advice on how to sideboard with Oath. Well, read further and you will learn what my team feels is the optimal sideboarding strategy.
 

[LordHomerCat]

Why would people bring in Tormod's Crypt from the side against Oath?  You don't even run  Yawg Will, the only thing Crypt would seem to do is kill Gaea's Blessing if you (for some reason) oathed your whole deck into your yard when its out.

Am I missing something major here?

[Moxlotus]

Why would people bring in Tormod's Crypt from the side against Oath?  You don't even run  Yawg Will, the only thing Crypt would seem to do is kill Gaea's Blessing if you (for some reason) oathed your whole deck into your yard when its out.

Am I missing something major here?

I've seen people use Crypt in response to blessing trigger to remove a huge chunk of your deck from the game.  I'm not saying is necessarily a good strategy compared to other options--but I've seen it used.

[NaNaKy3k]

The side:
3 Null Rod
1 Darksteel Colossus
2 Triskelion
4 Oxidize
4 Extract
1 Tinker

If you don't play 4 Oxidize you will lose

True

The Mirror
-4 Oath of Druids; -2 Large Men; (-1 Gaea's Blessing)
+ 4 Extract; +1 Tinker; +1 Darksteel Colossus; (+1 Oxidize)

Now every body know this, but, if your oponent sided in  1dsc 2triskelion leaving 1 angel, this game plan is poor, any thoughts on it?
I´ve not tested it so show me your point of view, but even if you go for the play extract twice route, i rather have triskelion, is an auto win when you oath it, also in oath mirror they will side in 2 triskelions and a dsc, so their creature count is 4, I dont think play 4 extract is a path to victori, 2 seems easy, 4 not

Control Slaver
-2 Sensei's Divining Top; -1 Impulse
+3 Null Rod

I asume that you  dont include 2 triskelion agains slaver beacouse of nullrod,but show us your experiences during testing

U/W Fish
-3 Duress
+1 Tinker; +1 Darksteel Colossus; +1 Triskelion

I rather have 2 triskelions(Again!) agains fish, gilded drake, they get arround stp kills mages, and huh, it can be hardcasters(not usually but no so imposible)

Also, Extract is also interesting agains gift, any idea?
Thx for answering MoxLotus

[GoTime]

The Sideboard for Oath is as follows:
4 Oxidize
3 Pithing Needle(best card for Oath)
2 Ground Seal(probably 2nd best SB card)
2 Triskelion
1 Tinker
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Platinum Angel(way better than Pristine)
1 Hurkyl's Recall(not that great but what else could go here?)

Welcome to TMD!  Since you just registered yesterday, let me point out that we like to have discussion here.  That means if you're going to post, more is required that your statement with nothing to explain the choices or reasoning or plan.  Please remember this moving forward - Dante

[Moxlotus]

The Sideboard for Oath is as follows:
4 Oxidize
3 Pithing Needle(best card for Oath)
2 Ground Seal(probably 2nd best SB card)
2 Triskelion
1 Tinker
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Platinum Angel(way better than Pristine)
1 Hurkyl's Recall(not that great but what else could go here?)

Thanks for such an insightful and informative post.  I mean, this is so much better than the 5 page article that I spent time on and the list which we have tested for months.  I mean, this SB is so good it doesn't even need explanation!!!  I am in total awe of your experience and wisdom with Oath.  If you would let me I would be happy to bow down to you and bask in the glory eminating from you.  You are my hero.  BTW-Platinum sucks and I would never want that shitter since its not good against anything and Needle doesn't do enough compared to other cards.

Yes, recurring Trikes do win.  That's how we have been winning the Oath mirror for the better part of a year.  However, it only wins when you have already won the Orchard war.  We aren't even bothering with that while your opponent still has to.

If your opponent has sided in 4 creatures you should win due to him having 4 cards in his deck he doesn't want to draw.  Prior to this article, I would have laughed at anybody who kept in 4 creatures in an Oath mirror.  Even if they have 3, they have to find the one Oath left in the deck, get it to resolve, and have won the orchard war to find 1 creature.  And then you just have to race a single Trike that can't replenish itself each turn.

We didn't even bother bringing in Trike against CS with Rod.  We used to run Trike--but with Rod they just suck.

We don't like Extract vs. Gifts because they can usually get a win condition in the yard/hand before we can find and resolve 2 Extracts. 

[Gekoratel]

Even if they have 3, they have to find the one Oath left in the deck, get it to resolve, and have won the orchard war to find 1 creature.

I don't necessarily agree with this statement because Triskelion only costs 6 mana which is not hard to accomplish in long drawn out Oath mirror matches and he alone can easily race a few spirit tokens.  If most Oath players are following the plan of -3 Oaths -2 Angels and boarding in something like +2 Trike +1Tinker +1Colossus +1Life from the Loam/Crucible/Bounce Spell.  Your first extract would hit Tinker( or as your article suggested Colossus) this would still leave them with 2 Trikes and a (Tinker or DS) depending on what you extracted.  They don't really need to win the Orchard war to just cast a 4/4 beater.  I suppose this example was after double or triple extract?  I thought the article was pretty insightful and a good read but I still wasn't sold on this part.

[Moxlotus]

Chances are I will resolve a few 1 casting cost spells compared to them resolving a 6 casting cost spell.  I know this sounds like bad reasoning and I had my doubts but testing confirms that Extracts are insane in the mirror.  6 mana will be hard for them still since you do still have wastelands and they may be on a clock from the orchard tokens you have.

[[FtN|FH] Negator]

I'm not an Oath expert. So my question:
Why do you not run Imperial Seal over Mystical Tutor?
Pro Mystical:
+ it's blue
+ no -2 Life
+ instant (is it really a big advantage in this deck?)

But the big con in my eyes is that it's not able to find an Oath of druids.

Great article! I really enjoyed reading. Keep on writing.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Blue is the main color, and Seal is a sorcery.

[Moxlotus]

Yeah. This site is for discussion hey, then wtf is with Moxlotus replying to everyone's comments like a d***?? i have nothing against GWS but he is what i just said he is.
Also, I bet I have played Oath more than you and its sideboard is amazing the way I designed it.  Sure if you sidebaord Triskelion in oath mirror against me then what will you do when I pithen needle your triskelion, sure pop me for 3 and that's it, no more triskelions.  BTW run 2 Null Rod in the main and Impulse sux cause Thirst for Knowledge gets 2 cards in your hand compared to one from Impulse.  If you have Akroma or Razia in your hand then you can pitch it with thirst.  Mana Leak is the third best counterspell, and above that is Mana Drain so use mana drain. 


@Dante for posting that stupid note---I explained it now r u happy? 

This is about discussion and your first post had nothing to discuss--it was simply a sideboard with absolutely no explanation.  You still do not put the level of explanation that this site is used to and because so will be treated as a moron.  I highly doubt you have played more Oath than I have since my team is the ones who revamped Oath from its old control version to its new one.  Also the SB you listed is very close to one we used to run if you would bother to look at old top 8s of major events.  We changed it because we found something better.

If you insist on playing Oath as a control then this is not the thread to talk about it.  This is about GWS Oath which is an aggro-control version.  It has placed in the top 8 of Worlds and the last 2 Starcities so I believe it has proven itself.  I have already discussed at length on why Drain is terrible--namely it costs 2 blue.  I have also already discussed why Thirst is bad.  Hell, we ran it in the version that made top 8 at GenCon!!!  It was cut because it cost 3 mana and doesn't dig a deep.  Oath doesn't need card advatange--it needs search and tutor.

For future reference, I would try to not insult moderators and members of the community who are experts in their field while you have never put up a top 8 at any notable tournament nor have done anything for the community.

@ constructive questions:
Mat made top 8 at Chicago with a Seal.  On the car ride home we changed Seal to Mystical for the reasons you listed.  Too many times we had to fetch out a sea only to get it wasted.  Too many times we would search for an Oath, then the opponent would waste our orchard and we would have at least 1 dead draw until we found another.  Seal also can't do the "upkeep, Oath, mystical for TW" play which is pretty common.  We were very disappointed in its performance especially since we were so excited to run it.

[Gekoratel]

Thanks for the response, I have spring break coming up so I'll get a chance to test out the new sideboard with my brother and I'll be able to have more than just conjectures.  I have a few questions about the mirror match now that you have extract and don't care about winning the orchard war.

1. What are the starting hand evaluations now that you don't need to win the orchard war?  In the past the only cards that mattered were Tinker, Wasteland, Orchard and Tutors.  Your article said it was all about Extract/Tinker with protection so the hands you keep for the mirror would be reasonable combination of spells/lands to support that plan.

2. In the post-board matches do you tend to play the deck in the control role or beatdown?  It would seem the addition of Extract would help the control role more so then beatdown.  I know roles change all the time based on variances in game-state (Who's the beatdown?) and your opening hand but just as a general view on the match-up.

I haven't had a chance to play with the new board but I think I'd be able to play with them better if I knew the answer to these questions.  Thanks in advance.

[Moxlotus]

You are the beatdown in the mirror.  You must find and resolve extracts before they win the Orchard war and get an Oath into play.  The deck works good as the beatdown in most matches which one reason why the extract plan is better than a transformational into something like Trix--which is more controlling and slower.

Extract and protection is nice to have in your opening hand.  Pretty much any hand that is keepable against other decks is now keepable in the mirror.

[Lost In Admiration]

To further Phil's note about the Extract plan making you the beatdown, I tend to like to mulligan pretty agressively postboard with the Extract plan.  If it doesn't have disruption of some sort, an Extract, and/or ways to find both, there is no reason to keep the hand.  Most of the cards desireable in the opening hand are in the deck as four-of's now so there is no reason not to start out with a couple.

[Rock Lee]

It makes me grin every time I see you mention Extract MoxLotus, as I feel I'm one of those indepentant minds who "discovered" it around the same time you were optimizing this sb.

Concerning the Fish Matchup:
I agree with the statement that there exists a massive amount of variation depending on how much hate they are hauling. I personally run 6 sb slots against Oath, 2 of which overlap with Staxx. and find that I have a 60/40 matchup against oath. Between 4x extract, 2x disenchant, and the 4x stp main, their wins have to be immediate and covered via counter protection, which is not always possible.

An observation I have noted, is that if I draw too much hate (4 cards = death), I lose, somewhat surprisingly. Fish has to balance (as any deck does with 2 plans), so it can never really overly-hate oath (like it can staxx/combo). fish often needs to attack in order to draw cards (even moreso if running curiosity), so perhaps there's a weakness to exploit more.

[GoTime]

I no that this isn't responding to this paritcular article but I don't know where the article "Is Combo being underplayed?" went and I made a post in that one.  I wanted to see a reply.  Thanx! 


It should be pretty clear you're in violation of the rules here.  Again.  You've been linked to them before--  I suggest clicking that link and reading them. 
-Kowal

I'm going to go ahead and ban here, because you've earned a verbal warning and two regular ones in four posts (and you should have earned some warnings for posts that just got deleted).
-Jacob[/color]

[sa17dk]

I apologize to the mods if this is inappropriate. If it is I'll delete this post immediately.

This question doesnt regard the SB (because I really dont have much to say bout it), but instead I have a question about the maindeck. I dont wanna necro the old Oath thread so I figured this would be the next most appropriate topic.

I noticed in your list you/your team ran Mana Leaks over Chalice. What was the reasoning behind this? It seems (to me at least) that maybe Chalices would do better against Gifts and Control by countering their Moxen and Brainstorms. One reason I could think of playing Mana Leaks over Chalices is that Mana Leaks wouldnt hit your own Brainstorm/Tutors/Duress. I'm just curious and would like your input.

[the boogie man]

   I have a question: if you no longer run choke in the sideboard, why run the cities maindeck? Would those two slots serve better as another underground sea and another fetch, or something of the ilk?

[Moxlotus]

Cities are nice to support the Duress in the maindeck and the Oxidizes in the SB.  We tried it for a bit but liked the versatility of the Cities.

We cut chalice because its frankly not that good.  It pretty much never hit any of our cards because 95% of the time it was a Chalice @ 0.  Everybody plays Mox monkeys rendering those things pretty useless.  Also, it is only useful 20% of the time (40% in your hand, 50% on the play).  There were a severe lack of blue cards in the GenCon list and we frequently had a FoW and no blue cards.  That even happens with Leaks too much for our taste, but its the best we can do.