Mana Prison

[eskimo81]

Mana Prison
4
Artifact
All lands tap for colourless mana instead of their regular colours.
2:  Add one mana of any colour to your mana pool.  Any player may play this ability.

[asmoranomardicodais]

Neato. I think it could cost three or even two though, since its ability isn't all that powerful.

[Fall-Titan]

isnt all that powerful... i disagree.

Firts my question is, does this affect workshop at all, or will it still produce 3 mana

But this would be a crazy turn 1 drop against mana drain decks... if they dont force of will it, it essentially just took away their best card other than the  lotus/sapphire play. It also kills oath, leaving them with only a mox emerald as their turn 1 out to drop oath. Basically what im saying is this cant cost 2 mana because it gives to many decks the same effect as a trinisphere almost. And at 3 mana if the workshop still tapsfor 3 mana this just becomes another lockdown piece against certain decks. But pushing it to 5 mana makes it unplayeable... so i dont know

[Godder]

This is amazing a deck that relies heavily on artifact mana... I wonder which deck that might be?

To answer the question, it doesn't affect Workshop mana at all.

[emidln]

So with this card, you could filter Workshop mana into non-artifacts though, right? Since you are paying for this artifact's activated ability and that just happens to produce new, but different mana? I don't like the sound of that.

[LordHomerCat]

You cannot use workshop mana to pay the activation cost of this artifact.  So, no, you can't filter workshop mana through it into colored mana (and even so, you could only get 1.5 mana out of it, which is hardly insane).  Still tho, this seems quite powerful if you are artifact-heavy, and it puts a big hurt on drains.

[PucktheCat]

I don't see this being all that busted in Stax.  Very few Type 1 cards have more than a single colored mana in their casting cost, so this is most often a 4cc Sphere of Resistance.  It also completely solves any off-color mana problems for you, letting a Gifts deck, for example, cast its red spells using basic Islands.  This does put the hurt on Mana Drain, as has been pointed out, but so do a number of Stax lock pieces (In the Eye, Uba Mask, Goblin Welder).  Hosing Mana Drain alone isn't worth it.

The Vintage deck this would really destroy would be Fishy things that run lots of double colored spells and few moxen to make colorless mana.

But I think this card is a good example of where the "Vintage can take it" cliche really applies.  The real problem would be other formats where cards with serious multicolor mana requirements see play.  Things with 3+ colored mana in the cost are pretty much completely nuked by this card.  Some kind of deck with an Urza-tron mana base could probably do some serious damage with a card like this.

[Polynomial P]

I would try and use this in a mono-brown deck with 4x null rods...but thats just me. I dont think this card would be that broken, especially with 4cc.

[PucktheCat]

Didn't think of that interaction, that seems pretty powerful, actually.  Null Rod would shut down not only the Mana Prison ability, but also just about every non-land mana source that might provide an escape.  I can't think of a playable way out of the lock off the top of my head.

[Godder]

Provided you've got one in play, any creature that makes mana e.g. BoP, or ESG.

[Matt]

Or, you know, Moxen. Signets. Lotus. Etc.

[Liam-K]

read, matt, read!

This card gets my hackles up.  I think it's a bad idea.  Especially in light of the null rod combo.

[Matt]

Lol I'm a tard lol

[Fall-Titan]

Yea, that is what i was thinking of when i posted about this being too good in stax... and at 4 casting cost, droping it on turn 1 is easy, which buys you at least a turn to drop null rod.... Leaving your opponent more pissed than if trinisphere were to be bombed early, and look what happened to that little card.

[eskimo81]

I didn't even think about Null Rod.  What if we re-word it's second ability to be a triggered ability instead, so that it doesn't get shut down by Null Rod?

Mana Prison
4
Artifact
All Lands tap for Colourless mana instead of their regular colours.
Whenever a player would play a mana ability, he or she may pay .  If they do, they add one mana of any colour to their mana pool.

[Joblin Velder]

With that wording, you totally can never make mana.

[MoxMonkey]

All Lands tap for 1 Colorless mana and gain the ability Pay 2 add 1 mana of any one color to your mana pool.

I think thats worded right and I think thats what he wanted to say.  Please change it if I'm wrong.

[Evenpence]

It's already been said, but with Null Rod, this card becomes absolutely insane.  This deck makes Ubastax EASILY tier 0.

Maybe having a static ability on it would be okay?  Like:

Each player may tap two lands to produce one mana of any color.  Null Rod doesn't affect it then.

Or, like has already been suggested:

All lands produce colorless mana instead of their normal type.  (Example, RR becomes 2).
All lands have the ability 1, T:  Produce one mana of any color.

This would probably be the easiest way to do it.

[Ephraim]

Does this work...

Mana Prison

Artifact

Lands produce colorless mana instead of their normal type.
Lands have ", : Add one mana of any color to your mana pool."


Because you're adding the mana production ability to the lands instead of to the artifact, it doesn't get shut down by Null Rod.  (The part about which I am unsure is whether or not the first ability shuts down the second ability.)

[Godder]

The first ability is a replacement ability that would automatically override the second ability, annoyingly.

[Evenpence]

No need to be offensive.
-Jacob

So how is this problem solved, because you CAN'T make this card as is with Null Rod.

EDIT:  Sorry, I don't even remember what I wrote there.  I definitely didn't mean to upset anyone there.  Sorry Jacob.

[vroman]

just take ephraim's edit a step further

Mana prison

all lands lose their printed mana abilities
all lands have T: add 1 mana
all lands have 1, T: add 1 mana of any color.

[Godder]

Some ways to avoid Null Rod issues:

1. Make it cost more. If it costs 5 instead of 4, it stops being a problem.

2. Don't worry about it. We're talking about a 2 card combo for 6 mana that doesn't win the game, and is legal only in Legacy and Vintage, where the Flame Fusillade/Time Vault combo also costs 6 mana, and wins the game outright. Speaking of Legacy, this is good, but not that good in Legacy since it's kinda slow, Aether Vial exists, and it could be banned if necessary. In Vintage, it can be restricted, and "Vintage can handle it", as the saying goes.

The templating Vroman suggested works, but I think we should avoid "Humility" cards where possible. To avoid Null Rod sticking its nose in, but without resorting to Humility-style wording if we don't have to, we need a static or triggered ability (note - a mana trigger is still a mana ability, and can't be countered or responded to e.g. Wild Growth) of some sort...

Mana Prison

Artifact

If tapped for mana, lands produce colorless mana instead of their normal type.
Whenever a land is tapped for mana, its controller may pay to add one mana of any colour to his or her mana pool. This ability can't be played as another spell or ability is being played.

I basically flogged the wordings from Ritual of Subdual, Fertile Ground and Rhystic Cave, with minor alterations. The Cave ability may be superfluous, but I'm not sure, so I tacked it on, just in case.

[Liam-K]

While I like vroman's edit, it's very sneakylike of him to give his bazaars a mana ability.

Really though, that wording would be fine if basic lands had printed mana abilities.  I'm not exactly sure how you'd get around that... "Lands lose all activated abilities.  Players may tap a land and add one colourless mana to their mana pool.  Players may tap two lands and add one mana of any colour to their mana pool." probably has huge stack issues.  It also hoses shop and makes the card unplayable in t1 if that matters.

[Evenpence]

While I like vroman's edit, it's very sneakylike of him to give his bazaars a mana ability.

This is HILARIOUS.

[Fall-Titan]

2. Don't worry about it. We're talking about a 2 card combo for 6 mana that doesn't win the game, and is legal only in Legacy and Vintage, where the Flame Fusillade/Time Vault combo also costs 6 mana, and wins the game outright. Speaking of Legacy, this is good, but not that good in Legacy since it's kinda slow, Aether Vial exists, and it could be banned if necessary. In Vintage, it can be restricted, and "Vintage can handle it", as the saying goes.

The problem with this philosophy, is that this isnt a 2 card combo, its 2 cards that a great on there own and broken together.
Flame fusilade and time vault both suck if the other isnt present and u cant play both off a workshop. Mana Prison and null rod both act as very good stall components, buying you a few turns to find the other or win outright by themselves, but together they win the game....

[Godder]

The "lock with Null Rod" wording is obviously great with Null Rod, but without Null Rod in play, that version is a weak card, thanks to the artifact mana running around. The fact that off-colour moxen and cards like Sol Ring (etc.) suddenly produce mana of any colour rather than colourless practically makes up for the fact that my land isn't as good any more, especially since players no longer have to worry about colour-screw. Getting rid of it becomes downright easy!