hasran ogress - not all that bad?

[hollowbody]

there's a very obvious reason this is in the casual forum. the other day, just for fun, i put together a deck with black cards i almost never use. it included erg raiders, fear, seizures, paralyze and songs of the damned. it was made specifically to play against other creature-based decks, obviously. the one thing i found, to my surprise, is that hasran ogress is not that bad. for those of you who forget what she is:

Hasran Ogress - 3/2
Summon Ogre - BB
If you declare Hasran Ogress as an attacker, pay 2 or Hasran Ogress deals 3 damage to you.

With the recent expansions, we've all had to deal with casting creatures that sound great but have drawbacks. Even a lot of the better older creatures had disadvantages (djinns and efreets) that damaged the controller. But the Ogress only hurts you if you don't pay her (slut!). In testing and casual play, she turned out to be a champion!

I think we should all dig deep into our boxes of commons and find cards that just aren't as bad as we thought they were. What other creatures are there that members of the forum love but won't tell anyone about because they arent Morphling or Darksteel Colossus?

[Harlequin]

Chaos Harlequin + Sinbad + Orcish Spy = FTW!
Although throw in Petra Sphinx.

Truth be told Oricish spy is not really that bad of a card.  [insert bla bla bla Sensei's Top here].  The combo Listed above however ... well that was my first experiance with synergy that I discovered =)   Its no metalworker/staff of domination.  But come on, Sinbad for the win! ... It was fun in the days of Homelands.

Other than that my bet creatures are:
Thalid [anything]
Thrull [Anytihng]
and Homarid Spawning pit!!  Not really a creature but come on! its like monkey cage but a million times worse!  the Homarid pit will forever be in my Type 4 stack though.  And none of you can stop me! 
Homarid Spawning put + Legendary Divinity Blue guy (totally forget the name) => Remove counter, then turn her into CRABS in response = I draw 11 cards!!  RAR!!

@_@ <-- Talkin about really bad old cards makes Harlequin Loose his Marbles.

[Upinthe]

there's a very obvious reason this is in the casual forum. the other day, just for fun, i put together a deck with black cards i almost never use. it included erg raiders, fear, seizures, paralyze and songs of the damned. it was made specifically to play against other creature-based decks, obviously. the one thing i found, to my surprise, is that hasran ogress is not that bad. for those of you who forget what she is:

Hasran Ogress - 3/2
Summon Ogre - BB
If you declare Hasran Ogress as an attacker, pay 2 or Hasran Ogress deals 3 damage to you.

With the recent expansions, we've all had to deal with casting creatures that sound great but have drawbacks. Even a lot of the better older creatures had disadvantages (djinns and efreets) that damaged the controller. But the Ogress only hurts you if you don't pay her (slut!). In testing and casual play, she turned out to be a champion!

I think we should all dig deep into our boxes of commons and find cards that just aren't as bad as we thought they were. What other creatures are there that members of the forum love but won't tell anyone about because they arent Morphling or Darksteel Colossus?

The Ogress is terrible and should never be used. Nantuko Shade is better in almost every way. If you want a black AN common that's still marginally useful, pick Stone-Throwing Devils or Oubliette.

[hollowbody]

The Ogress is terrible and should never be used. Nantuko Shade is better in almost every way. If you want a black AN common that's still marginally useful, pick Stone-Throwing Devils or Oubliette.

I'm not such a big fan of the stone throwers. other than killing savannah lions, they don't do too much. Oubliette, though, is one I used to play often and had totally forgotten about. Props for mentioning it, though i'll have to pretend i didnt hear you putting down my Ogress

I just recently unearthed a RB deck that i thought i had lost, full of Fumaroles, royal assassins and Lim Dul's Paladin for the win! Damn, i used to love that guy! ok, so he was total lightning bolt bait, but a 6/6 trampler for 4 mana?!?! cmon!!!

which reminds me of a ridiculous combo i tried to perfect involving ornithopter, howl from beyond, channel and phyrexian dreadnought. if i drew the right 8 cards, i could get a 12/12 trampler turn one! i think i played the deck 30 times before it actually happened. the first 29 times, i got my ass whupped, but that one time, man, i tell ya...thats what i love so much about this game.

[Ephraim]

You mentioned other cheap creatures with drawbacks from recent sets, but you didn't actually specify any by name.  Two that come to mind that I think are better than Hasran Ogress are [card]Wretched Anurid[/card] and [card]Blind Creeper[/card].  Yes, you may end up losing more life with the Wretched Anurid, since creatures will continue to come into play, but I think that you have overstated the effectiveness of Hasran Ogress's ability.  Assuming you want to attack with her every turn, you're continuously tying up the two mana you used to play her, setting yourself back two turns.  She negates the tempo that she appears to generate by forcing you to choose between maintaining a life advantage and developing your board. Blind Creeper is a tough card to judge, in my opinion, but I think it is definitely stronger than Hasran Ogress.  Yes, your opponent may be able to kill the Creeper just by playing spells -- but probably not that early in the game.  You may argue that Creeper dies to Shock, but so does Ogress.  Plus, both Blind Creeper and Wretched Anurid cost , as opposed to Hasran Ogress, which costs .  That means you can more easily play them in decks that help to minimize their drawback (ie: Spirit Link on Wretched Anurid lets it earn back some of the life that it makes you lose.)

[hollowbody]

I think that you have overstated the effectiveness of Hasran Ogress's ability. Assuming you want to attack with her every turn, you're continuously tying up the two mana you used to play her, setting yourself back two turns. She negates the tempo that she appears to generate by forcing you to choose between maintaining a life advantage and developing your board.

what i meant is that you can opt to take the damage, as many Suicide Black players do, and use the mana to complete your control of the board, at which point you can either find a way to get rid of the ogress or simply pay the 2. This is really no different that Necropotence or Dark Confidant. Whereas those let you find cards that will get you an advantage, the Ogress is actually advancing your game by beating down for 3 starting turn one. I guess at this point the debate arises as to what is better, card-advantage or life-advantage, but realistically, a deck playing the Ogress or other similar creatures probably is not going to have too many broken spells that it needs to find, more likely, you'll be top-decking a threat every turn.

Plus, both Blind Creeper and Wretched Anurid cost , as opposed to Hasran Ogress, which costs {B}. That means you can more easily play them in decks that help to minimize their drawback (ie: Spirit Link on Wretched Anurid lets it earn back some of the life that it makes you lose.)

Again, I was thinking specifically of Suicide or other mono-black decks, but yeah, i see your point.