Jester's Cap in Ubastax I.E., the card that got me two T8s at Richmond.

[Evenpence]

This is my first post since Richmond.  I will be writing a tournament report and submitting it within the next day or so.  Thank you all for the congratulations, I appreciate all your love and support, especially from those of you who never doubted me, and particularly to Clown of Tresserhorn (he knows why).

First and foremost, MAINDECKING Jester's Caps is and was completely Yespuhyren's idea.  I take NO credit for the idea.

For those of you who do not know who Yespuhyren is:  Yespuhyren is a member here at TMD and on SCG who has been playing Ubastax for quite some time.  I consider him to have the same deckbuilding and playing skills as Vroman and myself when it comes to Ubastax, like many others do as well.

I sent Yespuhyren a PM Friday asking if he wanted to test for Richmond, as I expected to see the mirror in high numbers, and wanted a good opponent to play against.  We met up over Workstation and didn't really play any games at all, save a few.  We actually just talked about what we expected there, and what cards would be good.  Yespuhyren pitched the idea of Jester's Caps (as he was playing them for a short time), and had explained that they were awesome.  I had ALWAYS had Jester's Caps (3) in my sideboard for my local meta down here in Georgia that consists of about 50% Oath.  I had never, however, thought to remove Null Rods from the MD in favor of Jester's Caps, although I _DO_ take credit for initially removing Null Rods from the list and adding in Karn / 2 Trisks.

For those of you which were around in the day or so that I allowed the Null Rodless Ubastax list to float around, you can remember how everyone said:  "Cutting Null Rod from Ubastax is a horrible idea, and you're a horrible player for even suggesting it."  I would like to acknowledge that I removed that thread because that's all the thread turned into, and now that I have visible results to back my claims up, I want everyone to talk about it in a nice way.  Also, mad props to Andy Probasco for the comment he made to me on Day 2 after I T8ed, it made my day.

I played different lists (almost drastically so) both days.

Here are my lists:

Day 1 (Saturday) List:

Standard 47.
3 Jester's Cap
3 Uba Mask
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Triskelion
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Gorilla Shaman

Day 2 (Sunday) List:

Standard 47.
2 Jester's Cap
2 Uba Mask
3 Juggernaut (wtf?)
3 Tangle Wire
2 Triskelion
1 Karn, Silver Golem

I dedicated Day 2 and this list to Travis Lapante, who I had to defeat (he was playing Gifts) to get to a T8 finish on Day 1.  I am in awe of his Juggernautness, and greatness.  He's a great guy, and I would have rather defeated most anyone else than this guy to T8 on Day 1.

DISCLAIMER:  Jester's Caps will probably not be talked about on this thread as much as Juggernauts will be.  Jester's Caps have proven their worth in Ubastax, but Juggernaut has not.  I will say right now that Juggernaut sucks, completely and totally, and it should NOT be included in any good Ubastax list looking to make T8 at any nearly any given tournament.  I put them in because I expected alot of Slaver the next day (which happened) and the ability to go first turn Jugg, second turn Tangle Wire to put enough pressure on Gifts (which I also expected alot of).  I also didn't expect Storm Combo as much, which is why 1 Jester's Cap and ALL the Spheres got cut (I was completely wrong about this, but actually won all of my games against combo Day 2 regardless).

I can post more about Juggernaut if people want me to on this thread, although I'd actually like to start another thread about that.  They did extremely well for me, and even though I had NEVER got Tangle Wire after I dropped Juggs, Juggs won me the game many times simply by putting pressure on the opponent, forcing him to do things he wouldn't have normally done (like casting rebuild too early, allowing me to replay him and win shortly).  In short, he accomplished what I wanted for the metagame, but would NEVER play him again, in most cases.

Now, about Jester's Caps:

I went 13-5 first day, 13-3 second day.  Out of my 26 wins, FOURTEEN of these were solely because of Jester's Caps.  I had 6 wins in the Saturday Tournament because of them, and 8 wins in the Sunday Tournament because of Jester's Caps, despite the fact that people knew about the tech, and I actually cut one.  That's over half the amount of wins, solely because of ONE CARD.  I considered actually adding a fourth to the MD day 2 until I decided that the Juggernaut tech was better (which proved to be true).

As for those who would poke out that I played nothing but Combo and Gifts, or other decks which are crippled by Jester's Caps, this is COMPLETELY untrue.  I have never faced a more diverse deck lineup in the history of my playing career, and anyone that reads my report will agree.  Again, this is going to be posted in the next day or two.

Jester's Cap is easy to cast first turn and easy to activate second turn.  I actually considered adding in Grim Monolith to the deck to increase the probability and chance of casting/activating first turn cap for day 2, but decided the Juggernaut plan was better (again).

If I were to go with the Day 2 super-cap plan, this is what my list probably would have looked like:

Standard 47.  (Smokestack isn't cut yet, Ray.)     The Standard List has TWO exceptions, however:
+1 Grim Monolith
-1 Mountain (red sources won't be needed as much in this list)
4 Jester's Caps
3 Tangle Wire
3 Uba Mask
2 Triskelion
1 Karn, Silver Golem

The 3rd Uba Mask can actually come out for something else, as well as 3 Tangle Wires.  The Wires are nice because it provides the ability to go Tangle Wire, Jester's Cap on the draw, hoping for them to force Tangle Wire.  Defense Grid might be better, however, as it doesn't provide the chance of tapping yourself out, and also is only 2 mana (although the second argument wouldn't happen often, as if you only have 2 mana, I don't think you can get 2 on a turn without topdecking mana crypt, lotus, workshop, something that produces more than 2 mana, etc, and all of these would be fine with the Tangle Wire plan, which is why I would go with Tangle Wire over Grid, in addition to Wire being more flexible late game, and flexible against a variety of decks.  Grid also doesn't have synergy with the deck, and this generally shouldn't be argued about, Wire is almost strictly superior).

My AMAZING SB (When Caps didn't win me the game, my SB did) for the two days was the exact same:
4 Shattering Spree
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Defense Grid
2 Triskelion
2 Duplicant

I essentially had a 13 card sideboard, with the Duplicants doing absolutely nothing throughout the entire course of BOTH tournaments.  I considered cutting them day 2 for Lava Darts (which would have been much better), but I expected to be playing more Gifts decks, as people would switch to Gifts to beat the onslaught of people playing Slaver Day 2, so I felt the Duplicants would be stronger.  While I was right about there being more Gifts decks, I was wrong in the fact that Duplicant sucked totally.

Also, I suck at activating artifacts.  I forgot to activate Karn on my Sol Ring and swing for 1.  Long story, but it could have cost me the game (even though I won by topdecking mountain with thresholded barbarian ring down next turn).  That's what I get for switching to an entirely new deck (and trust me, this deck plays like an ENTIRELY new deck) the NIGHT BEFORE A HUGE TOURNAMENT.

That's really all I have to say for right now.  I'll let you all discuss the effectiveness of Jester's Cap in Ubastax, as well as the merits and detriments of cutting Null Rod (which SHOULD honestly be talked about more than anything).

Discuss.

[pyr0ma5ta]

Evenpence, congratulations on your finishes.  Very impressive.  We got in a big fight recently over the win conditions in Ubastax, and in essence you insisted that there was no need for a beater like Karn, while I claimed that the lack of a quick finisher was really hurting the deck's success.  It looks like you've incorporated some quick win conditions into your decks, whether they are the ability to remove DSC and Burning wish from a Gifts deck, or attack for 5 with a Tangle Wire down.  Good stuff.

I played at a local tourney this weekend, and there were infinte tendrils (Gifts, Long, Grim, TT Confidant, etc etc) decks everywhere.  Ubastax would have easily been a great choice for the field, and I'm considering some new tech for the meta.

I was actually thinking about 3 Juggy as a win condition myself, after laying a Chalice 1, Null Rod, or Sphere on turn 1, and winning the game from there.  However, you solved the problem in an entirely new way by cutting Null Rods, which I personally believe to be highly dangerous.  Is resolving a turn 1 cap and allowing the combo deck to resolve fast mana on turn 1 and use it worth the risk?  You often just win if you activate on turn 2, but they can just goldfish past a cap sometimes, or just tutor up a tendrils and draw enough cards until they can go off without whatever it is you remove.

Similarly, I haven't tested Cap against Gifts, but Null Rod is definitely a beating.  Cap is a bigger beating, but similarly, is it worth the risk of just letting him blow up all over you with fast mana?  Karn helps, but he's like 5 turns slower than Null Rod.  There's no comparison at which is better at hosing Moxes: Null Rod is far and away the champion.  However, the disynergies of Null Rod with Karn/Trike/Crypt/Cap/your own fast mana cannot be understated, so basically it boils down to this: is allowing your opponent, who is playing a full set of power because it powers out a spell that costs U3 or BB2, to use his $3k mana base worth it?

[Smmenen]

I have grown so accustomed with the deck that I can expect a certain metagame and then tune the deck to beat it, which is why I've T8ed at so many events, most famously these recent two SCGs. 

I'm not trying to be mean, but you've top 8ed at so many events?

I've been playing competitive Vintage for years now and I've never even heard of you until I saw you post about a month ago.  Where were you at the Vintage championships in the last three years?  Where were you in the Groatog, BBS, Long or even Keeper era?  I've never seen you play in a tournament before this weekend and I've been to every major venue for Vintage in the United States in the last 5 years. 

[Evenpence]

Evenpence, congratulations on your finishes.  Very impressive.  We got in a big fight recently over the win conditions in Ubastax, and in essence you insisted that there was no need for a beater like Karn, while I claimed that the lack of a quick finisher was really hurting the deck's success.  It looks like you've incorporated some quick win conditions into your decks, whether they are the ability to remove DSC and Burning wish from a Gifts deck, or attack for 5 with a Tangle Wire down.  Good stuff.

I played at a local tourney this weekend, and there were infinte tendrils (Gifts, Long, Grim, TT Confidant, etc etc) decks everywhere.  Ubastax would have easily been a great choice for the field, and I'm considering some new tech for the meta.

I was actually thinking about 3 Juggy as a win condition myself, after laying a Chalice 1, Null Rod, or Sphere on turn 1, and winning the game from there.  However, you solved the problem in an entirely new way by cutting Null Rods, which I personally believe to be highly dangerous.  Is resolving a turn 1 cap and allowing the combo deck to resolve fast mana on turn 1 and use it worth the risk?  You often just win if you activate on turn 2, but they can just goldfish past a cap sometimes, or just tutor up a tendrils and draw enough cards until they can go off without whatever it is you remove.

Similarly, I haven't tested Cap against Gifts, but Null Rod is definitely a beating.  Cap is a bigger beating, but similarly, is it worth the risk of just letting him blow up all over you with fast mana?  Karn helps, but he's like 5 turns slower than Null Rod.  There's no comparison at which is better at hosing Moxes: Null Rod is far and away the champion.  However, the disynergies of Null Rod with Karn/Trike/Crypt/Cap/your own fast mana cannot be understated, so basically it boils down to this: is allowing your opponent, who is playing a full set of power because it powers out a spell that costs U3 or BB2, to use his $3k mana base worth it?

I was actually going to play my regular version with Tangle Wires and Null Rods before Yespuhyren suggested to me that cutting Null Rod in favor of Jester's Caps might be a better plan, which in theory was correct, I just needed playtesting to confirm it.  I took me like, three games to be convinced.  There is no need for beaters if you're going to play a Rod Version of Ubastax (which I still think is generally the accepted, traditional, and winning version of Ubastax).  Having a choke-hold on your opponent has become more difficult recently, however, with combo incorporating basics into their deck (although Rod runs them over) and with Gifts knowing how to play against the deck, and not go for the kill right away.

Adding in beaters makes Gifts play against Ubastax completely differently now, and players are BEFUDDLED when approached with Juggernauts/Tangle Wires.  Many of my wins were just out of my opponents (GOOD opponents) making play errors that they shouldn't have.  To be fair, I had tons of mistakes too, the most notorious will be when I didn't remove Duplicant from Demars deck.  Then again, I hadn't even PLAYTESTED against any kind of deck with Caps, and to be fair, I have never activated Slaver against anyone but Oath and Gifts prior to the tournaments.

A Juggernaut/Rod build can do very well, because it has a strong amount of disruption and beaters FTW.  I've already created the list, and might play it at the right tournament, but the most important thing to remember is that Ubastax IS versatile, but it's versatile as in:  What do you expect the metagame to be?

I have grown so accustomed with the deck that I can expect a certain metagame and then tune the deck to beat it, which is why I've T8ed at so many events, most famously these recent two SCGs.  You have to decide the best approach to take, and how to provide the most synergy for your deck.

I actually had 3 Sphere of Resistance in Day 1 that sucked worse than any card in any Ubastax build ever.  I expected them to be a godsend against combo, which A) they weren't, and B) they sucked agaisnt everyone else.  I cut them immediately.

Cap is far superior to Rod against Gifts, but Rod/Jugg, believe it or not, might be better, as they both function well against Gifts, and are insane when put together.  I haven't tested enough against Gifts with Jugg/Rod, but it's important to know that Jugg's put the pressure on Combo to win now (which is why I won against Grimlong game 2 on day 2), and do the same thing to multiple other decks.  A Jugg/Rod version also WRECKS Control Slaver, which is nice.

As for your primary question:  I feel the ability to win turn 1 with no dyssynergy is ultimately the best way to win against Gifts/Combo (which I did very well at doing in Richmond), while Null Rod essentially only slows them down.  Combo can still win with Hurkyll's Recall.  I feel the pressure doesn't have to be on if you're using Caps, which is why my Day 1 list did so well.  I opted for pressure day 2, assuming Control Slaver would make it's presence felt (and I actually was Rich Shay's first defeat in Day 2).

I don't think either of my versions are very optimized, which I'm going to work on with Yesphuryen.  However, in short answer:

Everything is right.  You can do Caps, Rods/Juggs, Rods/nobeaters, Caps/Beaters, etc etc etc.  Everything is good against Gifts and Combo if A) you know how to play it B) actually build it correctly.  If you're running Rods, you shouldn't be running Karn, for instance.

I have grown so accustomed with the deck that I can expect a certain metagame and then tune the deck to beat it, which is why I've T8ed at so many events, most famously these recent two SCGs. 

I'm not trying to be mean, but you've top 8ed at so many events?

I've been playing competitive Vintage for years now and I've never even heard of you until I saw you post about a month ago.  Where were you at the Vintage championships in the last three years?  Where were you in the Groatog, BBS, Long or even Keeper era?  I've never seen you play in a tournament before this weekend and I've been to every major venue for Vintage in the United States in the last 5 years. 

I haven't been to major venues because I live in Georgia.  I've T8ed with local metas.

Also, I deleted my previous post because I didn't want to edit it, just to add to it.

I hate editing my post, as if I only want to change like, one thing with it before someone posts something else, I'll just double post then delete the original.  Unfortunately, this time I decided to just copy/paste and delete the original and then send this one.  It didn't work out.

Steve, you've also probably never heard of guys like Joe Davis, or Mike Knight, either, but these guys are solid local players that do really well, but don't post on TMD.

Also, I didn't take it as you being mean, and I appreciate you saying that, as without it, I probably would have taken offense.  Anyway, I don't want this list to be about me listing my accomplishments, as well as the players I regularly play with.  I want people to discuss Jester's Cap, Null Rod, and to a lesser extent, Juggernaut.  Thank you, pyromasta.

[Lunar]

Congrats on the two top 8s, very impressive evenpence...mad props really...

I wish you werent such a bad poster at times or standoffish or whatever it is that drives so many people here nuts, lol.

Maybe the two pieces of power you got can go on the trophy shelf next to your Hungry Hungry Hippoes Champs plaque!

[Evenpence]

Congrats on the two top 8s, very impressive evenpence...mad props really...

I wish you werent such a bad poster at times or standoffish or whatever it is that drives so many people here nuts, lol.

Maybe the two pieces of power you got can go on the trophy shelf next to your Hungry Hungry Hippoes Champs plaque!

I've been starting to see that I am standoffish, and am trying to change that.

After talking with a guy from ICBM (sorry man, forget your name) on Sunday, I think I've realized what my deal is:  I get pissed off when people try to talk to me saying how an improvement can be made to Ubastax, especially with regards as to a change I've made within the MD or SB.  I either have people that like me alot for knowing what I'm talking about, or people that are pissed off at me for just throttling their idea down, which I'm going to apologize for in my tournament report.

Thanks though man, I really do appreciate the congratulations.

[Moxlotus]

I actually had 3 Sphere of Resistance in Day 1 that sucked worse than any card in any Ubastax build ever.  I expected them to be a godsend against combo, which A) they weren't, and B) they sucked agaisnt everyone else.  I cut them immediately.

That's so weird.  SoR is the one card that hurts IT more than anything.  SoR + 1 Rod/Chalice wins against IT (most of the time) compared to Rod +2 Chalice or 3 Chalice thats the other option.

However, Caps are a FUCKING BEATING against IT game 1 and a pretty big pain in the ass game 2.

[Polynomial P]

How was defense grid for you in the SB? I had been toying around with defense grid my ubastax sideboard on the theory that it could be great. I havent tested it though, since I havent played uba in a tourney lately. Was it worth the SB spot?

[EaterOfDreams]

This is exactly why I should have played my WorkShop deck day two. MD Caps and even Juggies. It's more Aggro but still, it would have done 10 times better than Confidant did. Great job BTW, I was going to watch you play because I saw your name on the lists at the tourneys and recognized it from the SCG Forums but I didn't get around to it Lol..

[vartemis]

On Sunday (before I heard about your caps) I was testing by running 3 nrods main and taking out my 3 tanglewires for caps.  My gameplan for gifts was to drop an early nrod and welding it out for a cap, or welding it out the turn I can cast and activate a cap.  Although I like the wires, I find that the mana curve slot for cap is alot closer to the wire than the rods.

j

[yespuhyren]

Wow, in the time typing this (after pyromasta) 8 new posts were entered. 

@Everpence

First of all, thanks for the credit.  The one thing that really has to be said, is although it WAS my idea, it wasn't me who did well, I didn't attend.  It was YOU who took a pretty much brand new deck to one of the most prestigious tournaments known to the Vintage community, and in 2 days in a row you Top 8'ed.  There is DEFINITELY something to be said about your level of play at the moment.

I had done some work and testing since we played, and felt that the 4th Cap was excellent in the MD.  This is what I'm currently playing (I'll include the full text so you can copy and paste into notepad and save for MWS)



// Lands
 Â   1  Tolarian Academy
 Â   1  Strip Mine
 Â   4  Mishra's Workshop
 Â   4  Bazaar of Baghdad
 Â   3  Mountain
 Â   4  Wasteland
 Â   4  Barbarian Ring

// Creatures
 Â   4  Goblin Welder
 Â   1  Karn, Silver Golem
 Â   2  Triskelion

// Spells
 Â   4  Uba Mask
 Â   1  Mana Crypt
 Â   1  Mox Emerald
 Â   1  Mana Vault
 Â   1  Mox Jet
 Â   1  Mox Pearl
 Â   1  Mox Ruby
 Â   1  Mox Sapphire
 Â   1  Black Lotus
 Â   1  Sol Ring
 Â   1  Trinisphere
 Â   4  Crucible of Worlds
 Â   4  Chalice of the Void
 Â   4  Jester's Cap
 Â   3  Tangle Wire
 Â   3  Sphere of Resistance

// Sideboard
SB: 4  Shattering Spree
SB: 3  Defense Grid
SB: 3  Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3  Fireslinger
SB: 2  Triskelion

I'm not really a big fan of the Dart in the SB, as it suffers from Chalice @1, and without solemns to tutor up mountains, the flashback opportunity isn't around often enough/consistantly enough for this card to be considered over something like Lightning bolt, which still has the same downside.

@Pyromasta

The only reason that I decided to incorporate the big beaters (Karn and Trike) was because I had cut Null Rod.  Up till cutting null rod, I had been extremely happy with 2 sundering titans in place of the 2 solemns up until Everpence had created the UbaWire list.  The sundering titans were awesome, and everyone always said they were terrible.  This is what I would be playing as a large beater if I was running the rods.

@The deck

I'm testing Fireslingers in the SB, as they are

A)  Cheap to cast (1R) and don't rely on much red mana (needs 1/9 sources in the deck to be cast)
B)  Not affected by Chalice @ 1
C)  Great at killing welders/shamans/random fish creature (KATAKI!)

I haven't played against anyone good enough to warrant me SB'ing them in, so I am still unsure as of yet if they are going to make the cut, but for lack of better cards to put in the SB, I'm going to test them.

About cutting cap.  Sure...gifts CAN combo out extremely quickly, but IF I cap them, I should be able to remove at LEAST 1 of the following, if not more depending on the version

Colossus
YawgWINS
Time Vault (Fusilade can be burning wished back)

Other cards great to remove are

Ancestral
Recoup
Demonic Tutor
Time Walk

And much much more.  Capping an opponent is likely the hardest decision you will ever have to make playing the deck, as your card selections are ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL to the way you play the rest of your game

Besides the fact that you can remove what is in YOUR opinion the 3 most important cards in there for the opponent, don't forget that

A)  Cap CAN be welded back for further use
B)  You will often know almost to the card your opponents hand, as most decks are full of Restricted cards that are in every list (Every gifts deck will have Recall, Will, Tinker, etc)
C)  If you have to take out 1 win or another, you can leave which ever win condition your opponent has in the deck, and then dedicate your entire board position and gameplan to denying them the ability to win with that method.  This will happen often against SOME builds of Slaver and Stax.  
D)  Another powerful advantage, besides knowing what they are playing and possibly their hand, is that after game one you can usually figure out what they sided in that you MIGHT have to deal with, how many, and what they sided out that you don't have to deal with.

Hopefully this will raise some insight into the deck for all to discuss.

[Evenpence]

Wow, thank you everyone for posting on this thread so quickly.

I actually had 3 Sphere of Resistance in Day 1 that sucked worse than any card in any Ubastax build ever.  I expected them to be a godsend against combo, which A) they weren't, and B) they sucked agaisnt everyone else.  I cut them immediately.

That's so weird.  SoR is the one card that hurts IT more than anything.  SoR + 1 Rod/Chalice wins against IT (most of the time) compared to Rod +2 Chalice or 3 Chalice thats the other option.

However, Caps are a ------- BEATING against IT game 1 and a pretty big pain in the ass game 2.

I didn't go up against IT at all.  The combo I went up against was grimlong, some kind of freaky tendrils, three gifts decks (combo for cap at least), and dragon.  Caps won me all of these games, however, except for two against Gifts (game 3s with Laplante and Outlaw).  Actually, I don't know if Cap won me my game 1 against Laplante (I can't remember).  I think it did, though.

IT is actually one of the decks which I fear the least with any version of Ubastax, and I hate the fact that I didn't get to play it.  You guys from GWS are AWESOME, and I think I might have to petition a team request in the near future based on your guys level of in-person awesomeness.    Or not. 

How was defense grid for you in the SB? I had been toying around with defense grid my ubastax sideboard on the theory that it could be great. I havent tested it though, since I havent played uba in a tourney lately. Was it worth the SB spot?

I wanted to go up to a 4th by the end of the weekend.  They were especially good game 1, being able to side SoR's out for defense grids against drains perfectly was...perfect.  They win games, although Tangle Wire is probably better if you're not running both or expecting combo, etc etc.  My SB Day 1 is great, Day 2 is good too, but not completely optimized.  I should have taken Grids out as I had Wires, for probably SoR's.  I dunno.  They're good though.

This is exactly why I should have played my WorkShop deck day two. MD Caps and even Juggies. It's more Aggro but still, it would have done 10 times better than Confidant did. Great job BTW, I was going to watch you play because I saw your name on the lists at the tourneys and recognized it from the SCG Forums but I didn't get around to it Lol..

Thanks man.  I appreciate it.

On Sunday (before I heard about your caps) I was testing by running 3 nrods main and taking out my 3 tanglewires for caps.  My gameplan for gifts was to drop an early nrod and welding it out for a cap, or welding it out the turn I can cast and activate a cap.  Although I like the wires, I find that the mana curve slot for cap is alot closer to the wire than the rods.

The curve is actually one of the only things I don't like about Rodless UbaCap (Yesphuryen's name for the deck).  It is admittedly workshop dependant.  I don't know how to solve this problem, however.  I banked on being able to side out Caps against Stax for Sprees and winning games 2 and 3 (if we even lost 1, I still believe 5c nearly rolls to Ubastax, and my tournament results actually prove this, but I'll talk about this more in the tournament report).

As for other parts of the SB:  4 Tormod's Crypt won me games against Dragon and Meandeck Shittorid.  Shattering Spree is unbelievable, especially when you have Ruby to use!  I cast multiple 2-for-1 Shattering Sprees off basic mountain and ruby.  It was HILARIOUS.

[nataz]

I've been to every major venue for Vintage in the United States in the last 5 years.

I'm not trying to be mean either, but I think I must have missed you at the last few Waterburys steve. Or is NE just not a major venue any more. :-p

I went 13-5 first day, 13-3 second day.  Out of my 26 wins, FOURTEEN of these were solely because of Jester's Caps.  I had 6 wins in the Saturday Tournament because of them, and 8 wins in the Sunday Tournament because of Jester's Caps, despite the fact that people knew about the tech, and I actually cut one.  That's over half the amount of wins, solely because of ONE CARD.  I considered actually adding a fourth to the MD day 2 until I decided that the Juggernaut tech was better (which proved to be true).

With that being said, and looking at your final list, what do you gain by keeping the smokestacks and not going all out aggroWS?

[Evenpence]

With that being said, and looking at your final list, what do you gain by keeping the smokestacks and not going all out aggroWS?

This is the best question yet far.  I don't know.  I actually told Ray (you know, the guy who runs Waterbury and doesn't play Stax) that I was probably going to take out ALL the Smokestacks Day 2 in favor of Tangle Wires.

Smokestack was HORRIBLE Day 1, only contributing to _ONE_ game win the entire day (LaPlante).  However, it was huge Day 2, winning me at least 5 games.  I heavily considered cutting Smokestack in favor of more Tangle Wires and Sphere of Resistances MD, however, decided that I should go with what I knew how to play, and stick with Smokestack for Day 2.  I'm confident I made the right decision.

However, going all workshop-aggro would have DEFINITELY been better Day 1.  I might have won against Demars in the Top 8, although I doubt it.  I was topdecking crap like Defense Grid (which I shouldn't have sided in against him, another mistake of playing a brand new deck), when I could have been topdecking Juggernauts.

My final list is horrible, to my own admission.  I actually felt that I had already won power, and while I WANTED to win, I had not thought I was going to Top 8 again, especially with everyone knowing about the Cap tech (which is also why I cut one in favor of new tech - Juggernauts).  The deck by theory is trying to do two different things, and is bad.  Stax and Juggernaut should not be in the same deck, although they actually worked well for me as I got plenty of Stax elements or plenty of Aggro elements during games, but usually never both, like an opening hand of Stax/Juggs/Shop/Mox/3 Blanks.  I told everyone that I was going to lose, and proceeded to go undefeated in GAMES up to round 5.  I was telling LaPlante how amazing Juggernauts were being for me in between rounds, lol.

Mono-Red (almost mono brown) Workshop Aggro is very viable with the addition of multiple Jester's Caps MD.

Also, it's worth noting that I NEVER led in ANY of my games with first turn Trinisphere.  I never even saw Trinisphere in any of my opening hands (or almost ever in any course of the game) except when playing against Rich Shay Game 2.  I tried to play it with a Workshop, and he forced it.

[yespuhyren]

If I were to go the Workshop Aggro route, I would probably do the following (based on my last submitted deck list)

-3 Resistor
-3 Tangle Wire


+ 4 Juggernaut
+ 2 Triskelion

SB:

-2 Triskelion (Sent to MD)
+1 TCrypt
+1 Fireslinger

[pyr0ma5ta]

Most Gifts builds run 2 win conditions, amirite?  So if you cap away DSC/Tinker and Burning Wish (or Time Vault if they run that kill), the game ends right there, right?  They can no longer win?  If they happen to sack those cards into hand, then other prime targets are Tinker, Yawgwtfbbq, and Recoup.  I'm imagining Cap as a instant win against Gifts, because if you remove all of these cards they have 0 win conditions left in the deck, right?

Against combo, it's obviously v. different depending on what kind of combo (and I'm still waiting to see the IT list), but if you hit their Tendrils and any B. Wishes/C. Wishes they might have, it's game?  They can cast infy spells, but they can't actually tendrils or Brain Freeze you out because there are 0 ways to access those cards, and you just win anyway, amirite?

As such, Cap is an instawin against tendrils/gifts if it gets activated.  I'm excited to see if Pithing Needles will start coming down naming Cap.

Edit: Just had an idea.  What if you try a transformational sideboard with Null Rods and Juggy in the main for the combo matchup, since Rods and Juggy appear to be decent against Gifts, and you side out Null Rods and other stuff for 4 Caps in game 2?  Seems like the surprise factor of a Cap in a deck he knows has Rods could be enough to win games.

[Evenpence]

Colossus/Vault are the primary win conditions, although if they play Tendrils in the SB (which they are SURE to do now if they didn't before), Burning Wish is also a Cap Target.

I capped Outlaw turn 2 Game 1 Day 2, and saw only Vault (barely, this will make a funny story for the report), and Colossus.  I didn't see Burning Wish, and assumed it was in his hand.  I chose to remove Yawgmoth's Will so he would have a harder time accumulating storm for the lethal Tendrils.  Fortunately, he doesn't run Burning Wish, so he scooped.

Against Combo, activated Cap is game over unless they have the Tendrils in hand.

[pyr0ma5ta]

Against Combo, activated Cap is game over unless they have the Tendrils in hand.

My worry is that you're trying to race Tendrils combo which can go off turn 1.  Not a pretty thought; pretty ridiculously ballsy, actually.

[yespuhyren]

Here is a breakdown of the decks it CAN potentially remove all relevant win conditions in one shot, with how effective it is in my opinion

Stax - 7/10
Hit for

Titan
Trike
Karn

Gifts - 9/10
Hit for

Vault
Will
Colossus

@Pyromasta

Combo CAN win turn 1, though its far more likely for us to have a Turn 1 Chalice.  If they go first and win turn 1, then it is a moot point, as there is nothing we could do about that.

Combo - 10/10
Hit for

Will
Tendrils
Black Lotus/something better (depends on the list)

Oath - 10/10
Hit for

Razia/SOTN
Akroma
Random 3rd creature in case it was SB'ed in

CS - 7/10
Hit for

Slaver
Crucible/Pentavus
Trike

Opposing Ubastax - 5/10
Hit for

Crucible
Crucible
Crucible

[Evenpence]

Edit: Just had an idea.  What if you try a transformational sideboard with Null Rods and Juggy in the main for the combo matchup, since Rods and Juggy appear to be decent against Gifts, and you side out Null Rods and other stuff for 4 Caps in game 2?  Seems like the surprise factor of a Cap in a deck he knows has Rods could be enough to win games.

I've actually already done this.  It worked out really well, sending me to the T4 of a local meta, where I lost to my friend Mike playing Gifts, unfortunately.  He had pretty stupid topdecks.  I must have referenced this single game on like, three different threads now.  The Transformational SB wins.

Basically, my deck was a Transformational Deck.  Rich Shay knew I was playing Jester's Caps Day 1, then he's hit by second turn Juggernaut Day 2.  Heh.  I won both, so that tells out basically how the deck turned out, even with me playing it definitely sub-parly (or not perfectly at least), and it being DEFINITELY sub-optimal.

My worry is that you're trying to race Tendrils combo which can go off turn 1.  Not a pretty thought; pretty ridiculously ballsy, actually.

Grimlong's percentage of going off turn 1 is so small, it doesn't matter.  I kept a hand with all mana and Karn and raced Grimlong, and won, lol.  I have a tougher time with combo decks packing Force of Will, as you can't reliably mulligan into turn 1 Jester's Cap.  Anyway, disruption also helps your matchup against those types of combo, like Tangle Wire or Sphere of Resistance.  I expected alot of Combo Day 1, and went with 3 Jester's Cap / 3 Sphere of Resistance, 4 Chalice, etc etc.

I don't really like to say this, as I know it will be argued to the point of doom and back, but Combo is almost a bye.

Yespuhyren, you take Burning Wish over Yawg Will, because then they really don't have a win condition (Wishing for Tendrils).  That should be 10/10. 

[yespuhyren]

Yespuhyren, you take Burning Wish over Yawg Will, because then they really don't have a win condition (Wishing for Tendrils).  That should be 10/10. 

Again, it depends on the version of the deck, though if they don't have Tendrils maindeck, then you remove the burning wish.  IF they have Tendrils maindeck, I would rather them have to waste their burning wish, as well as spend an extra two mana to go off.

There is no set in stone thing, but all I know is Cap is SO good. 

Jester's Cap - Good
Knowing that there are 3 foil ones in the mail to accompany my 1 foil one so I'll have a foil playset for the deck - Priceless

EDIT : About the Fireslingers in the SB :

From what I hear, they are quite good against Ichorids and Ashen Ghouls  :lol:

[Moxlotus]

I don't really like to say this, as I know it will be argued to the point of doom and back, but Combo is almost a bye.

I'm going to have to disagree.  In fact, Uba Stax (minus Caps...must test) is IT's best matchup.  I don't think Endress or Becker lost to Stax at all this weekend (and while Mat didn't top 8 day 2, he was 6-2).  Becker is also 3-0 against Vroman.  I'm not even sure if Cap would help more game 1 since it is time to goldfish without fear or Rods or SoRs.  Game 2 they are a ton worse than SoRs since there are multiple win conditions with Confidants and Tendrils coming in from the board (I know, you don't know the deck yet, but Becker & Endress wrote a primer in the car and are sending it tomorrow).  

I would be hesitant to make such bold statements if I were you.  

That said, I must compliment you on making top 8 both days.  Cap is indeed an amazing card right now with so many decks losing to a single activation.  It was a gutsy but rewarding change.  Nice job.

EDIT:

Did the removal of Rods for Caps help or hurt against Slaver?

[Evenpence]

I'm going to have to disagree.  In fact, Uba Stax (minus Caps...must test) is IT's best matchup.  I don't think Endress or Becker lost to Stax at all this weekend (and while Mat didn't top 8 day 2, he was 6-2).  Becker is also 3-0 against Vroman.  I'm not even sure if Cap would help more game 1 since it is time to goldfish without fear or Rods or SoRs.  Game 2 they are a ton worse than SoRs since there are multiple win conditions with Confidants and Tendrils coming in from the board (I know, you don't know the deck yet, but Becker & Endress wrote a primer in the car and are sending it tomorrow).

Hey man, thanks for your help with my buddy's Oath build.  He actually decided not to go.  What a jerk!  Anyway, I'm not surprised Endress/Becker won against Stax, they're great guys and great players.  BTW, dude, who are you?  Did I meet you?  Anyway, I actually had Spheres + Caps MD, so I doubt IT would have been less than favorable for me this weekend.  How many Tendrils are you siding in?  Two?  I can still remove all three.    Confidants won't be a problem if you're just drawing storm, as I can barbarian ring them/block with welders/go workshop aggro on you and force you to block with them or die to their ability (not likely) / triskelion them, etc etc etc etc etc.

I would be hesitant to make such bold statements if I were you.

I am! 

That said, I must compliment you on making top 8 both days.  Cap is indeed an amazing card right now with so many decks losing to a single activation.  It was a gutsy but rewarding change.  Nice job.

Thanks man, I really appreciate it.  As for more on combo:  I didn't lose a single game to combo over the weekend, despite being paired up against it 3+ (I can't remember if it was more than that) times.  I actually expected more Day 1, which I didn't get to see.

Did the removal of Rods for Caps help or hurt against Slaver?

Honestly, it doesn't matter.  I think Cap is in general better against Slaver as you can take out win conditions, but Slaver runs me over, straight up.  If I would have taken Duplicant from Demars, I probably would have won game 2, but you know.  I lost to Slaver in the Top 8 Day 2, as well.

Making Top 8 Day 1:  $30.  Making Top 8 Day 2:  $30.  Losing in the first round of both Top 8's to Slaver:  Priceless.

[Metman]

Congrats on the slaughter.  Cap rules!  Although I don't have much experience playing with Stax variants one of my teammates plays it quite a lot so I have ample experience fighting UbaStax.  He's played with Cap's in the side for quite a while and nearly always brings them in against just about everything sans maybe aggro decks like fish or gobs.  He had been considering running them main but never made the switch.  Reading this topic and your tourny report will put him over the edge though.  I have a lot of experience playing Slaver decks and have been siding in Caps for a while now.  They work great with Welders and can only imagine how well they work when you cast them first turn with Shops.  Right now the current top tier decks are so narrow on their kill conditions that, like yespuhyren mentioned, they wrap up most games against most decks with one activation. 

I like your innovation and willingness to go against the grain despite ridicule.  Keep up the good work.  I look forward to reading more analysis and your report. 

[Moxlotus]

What can you do to the deck to make you not lose to Slaver?  Is there anything really you can do in the maindeck or sideboard?

SoRs + Caps would indeed seem to sacktap IT.

No, I didn't go.  I couldn't due to girlfriend, $, Genetics test, Organic test, and redoing a 16 hour Organic Lab that decided to not work.

[Evenpence]

What can you do to the deck to make you not lose to Slaver?  Is there anything really you can do in the maindeck or sideboard?

SoRs + Caps would indeed seem to sacktap IT.

No, I didn't go.  I couldn't due to girlfriend, $, Genetics test, Organic test, and redoing a 16 hour Organic Lab that decided to not work.

I'm sorry man, I would have liked to see you there.  All the guys from GWS I met were freakin' awesome.  I would like to befriend Endress.

Anyway, I've given up on the Slaver matchup.  Workshop Aggro + Granite Shard is about as close as I can come to thinking of a way to beat Slaver.  I actually beat Rich Shay on Day 2 in round 3 2-0, but I was a HUGE lucksack.  Like, two PERFECT hands, the first one without Trinisphere.  (The one with got forced).  I also played everything perfectly, wasting his red lands twice so he couldn't lava dart my goblin welder, which helped, because it's RICH SHAY.  If I screw up, he'd dominate my ass.

Yeah, I've given up.

[ashiXIII]

The Cap targets on this list against Gifts seem awful. The three cards you want to hit (assuming they're all still in the library) are Colossus, Flame Fusillade, and Burning Wish. The deck literally can not win without at least one of these cards. If you hit the Time Vault instead of the Fusillade, the deck could still (in theory) get enough permanents in play to kill you with it, however unlikely that may be. If one of these cards appears to be in their hand, you can take other cards in their place, such as Time Vault for Fusillade.

On a side not, I thought Endress dropped after 3-2 on day 2? I played him in the fifth round, and remember him checking the drop box, although it's quite likely he could've went up to the scorekeeper to reenter. And, Endress, thanks for being a nice guy and I still feel badly about the way our match went. It could've been better in a number of ways.

[b-tings]

Congrats on your finishes, and on finally realizing how awful Duplicant is and how awesome Karn is.

[Akuma]

Congratulations on the performances.

The Control Slaver issue continues to present a great obstacle to this type of deck. Given equal starting points, Control Slaver will win the match. You can't contain Slaver on all fronts (Mana Drain --> Robot, Goblin Welder, or broken card), that's the problem. We'll see if someone can figure this out... (odds are you guys might, since you seem to practice quite often 

We should also make an effort to drop the words "CREATED" or "INVENTED" from these Uba Stax threads. What is being discussed here is NOT innovation, it is metagaming.

[dicemanx]

If Gifts players started running 4 win conditions, would you still run Jester's Cap main?

Cap is awesome, but also very circumstantial - you really have to cross your fingers and hope it pans out. Nothing could be worse than Capping a deck like Fish or anything that saved a win condition in hand (or put it in the graveyard, like WGD). Cap seems to me like a card you have to periodically rotate from the main deck - it will work great the first time around, but then the probably need to come out for other cards (like Null Rods, which I think continue to be underestimated).