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Author Topic: Double top 4 at Richmond with I.T.  (Read 13951 times)
ErkBek
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« on: March 22, 2006, 02:28:31 pm »

In the months leading up to Richmond team GWS and I began tearing up the Midwest vintage scene with an all new storm combo deck, that split for 6 of the last 8 pieces of power to given away since the start of the new year (including a lotus).  I personally piloted it to 4 mox splits and 6 top 8’s in the 6 power tournaments that I went to with the deck.  Here is the list I decided to run for day 1

Quote
Intuition Tendrils – I.T. aka GWS secret deck
Land 14
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy

Accel 16
8 Sol-lo-moxen-crypt
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Ritual

Protection 10
4 Duress
3 Force of Will
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Rebuild

Business 20
4 Brainstorm
3 Intuition
2 Grim Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Perplex (functions as a blue grim tutor)
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Timetwister
1 Yawgmoth’s Bargain
1 Necropotence
1 Ancestral Recall

SB 15
4 Dark Confidant
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Hymn to Tourach
2 Tendrils of Agony
2 Massacre
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Swamp
1 Coffin Purge

First off, a primer written by Mat Endress has been submitted to Starcity games about playing the deck.  The build in the primer is our standard build, however I have tuned this according to my play style and predicted metagame.  I’ll address a few things now

The deck plays a lot like both gifts and TPS.  If you play it too aggressively, then you’ll probably lose.

 3 FoW’s
I know your saying that can’t be right.  I really think that the 4 duress and 4 FoW’s are just a little too much disruption.  Our team has agreed that Duress is better than FoW most of the time, so 1 FoW got the axe for the very flexible merchant scroll.

8 fecthes and 5 fecthable lands
The mana base is a little more vulnerable to stifle and stuff like suppression field, however the large number of fetches help you find the basic land you need vs stax all while preventing color screw vs. drains.  I’ll say this over and over, I have never lost a game to only having 5 fetchable lands, however I have one countless do to its stability.  Plus, fetchlands help contribute towards threshold as well as provide shuffles after Brainstorms.

1 Swamp on the SB
The reason I run a land on the SB is because I’ve found 15 lands to be the optimal number of lands vs. stax, so I bring 1 in when I sideboard.

1 Hymn to Tourach on the SB
Our team tested Hymn against gifts and slaver to some success, however several of us still preferred cabal therapy.  Hymn was good though, since it is effective vs. other ritual combo decks, unlike therapy.  So I found that in combo mirrors I would have 3 cuttable cards and only 2 worthwhile things to bring in (-1 necro, -2 bounce spells, +1 tendrils, +1 coffin purge, +1 Hymn).  So vs. slaver and gifts instead of bringing in 4 therapy I would now just bring in 3 therapy and 1 hymn.

There will be much more on SBing and how dark confidant is the nuts in Endress’ primer.

Fast forward to Friday, March 18th, “The Almighty” Brain Fisher and the self proclaimed “Immortal Sex God” Mat Endress arrive at my apartment in Champaign Illinois at 3am, to be followed by the man that tore up the vintage draft scene Ryan “Rhyno” Spindler.  I insist on showing them the most ridiculous fountain sitting in the middle of my living room that I built one weekend, when one of my roommates went home, solely for the WTF factor.  After a quick tour and some cheesy bread we start the 1,000 mile trek across the country to Richmond.

The 13 drive went about as well as we possibly could have hoped.  Endress and Fisher slept for a few hours, while Rhyno and I discussed IT and talked sports for a while.  The drive went by pretty fast and included incredible views of the mountains, a “ninja” bridge, several Food Lions, and an accident that occurred less than 100 feet away from us (more about this in Endress’ report).  Anyways, we arrive in Richmond at about 6 pm and get some food with teammate “Heavy Breath” Matt Morrison at an Applebee’s located next to a Food Lion.  Upon returning to the hotel we find out we are at the same hotel as Meandeck and “That Douchebag” Mike Scheen (jk Mike, you’re cool).  I hit the sheets around midnight after chillin’ with team, JD, and Mike for a while.

Nothing too eventful happens before the tournament.  I talk with the always crazy  ICBM crew to hear some of them would be running IT as well. So the following would be running the deck

Me
Mat Endress
Rhyno
I@n Degraff
Mike Solymossy AKA the Salad (13Nova)

Pairings go up on time and so goes the action.

Round 1: Bird Shit (Brian Rozzero), I recognized the name, and knew what he was playing.
Game 1: I win the dice roll.  I open up with a nice hand involving Vamp, Duress, Intuition, Usea, Yawgwill, and 2x cards.  I duress and take a MD tormod’s crypt over ancestral.  He chooses not to waste my sea and opts for ancestral instead.  On his EOT I vamp for Lotus.  Then on my turn, I Intuition for 2x Dark Rit, and a Demonic Tutor. Turn 2 kill.
Game 2: I bring in like 3 confidants and 2 Massacre.  I play a turn 2 Bargain, which he FoWs, I FoW back, and he FoW’s again.  The following turn I rip confidant and ride it all the way to the win, with him stuck without white mana for his STP and Orim’s Chant.

1-0

Round 2:  Rian (of meandeck) with BW confidant
Game 1:  His disruption seems to great for me initially.  I tutor up ancestral and play it.  I finally sculpt a good hand with grim tutor at 7 life while taking 4 a turn.  On his turn he forgets to pay 1 life to untap carnophage during his upkeep. I win at 2 life, how lucky.
Game 2:  He gets a Leyline starting in play.  His deck works and does its thing, but somehow I manage to tendrils him to 4 life.  The following turn I play a grim and massacre his board and he has a sacromancy in play, however he vamps for withered wretch ftw at 1 life.
Game 3:  This game is kinda fuzzy.  I think I bounced a null and comboed him out.

2-0

Round 3:  UGw Tog
Game 1:  I mystical for ancestral, which gets Forced.  Then I lost.
Game 2:  I bring in the confidants and therapies.  At some point I play a twister with U1BBB left in pool only to duress and drop 2 confidants.  A few turns later I play an Intuition for 2x cabal therapy and a lotus.  He gives me lotus, and then I take down counters via flashback and win.
Game 3:  We didn’t have much time, and end up with the draw
 
2-0-1

Round 4:  Cody with Metalworker/Ravager Combo
Game 1:  He wins the role and opens with 2 moxen and at Chalice at 0.  He doesn’t do much for the rest of the game while I intuition for rituals and locate a yawg will.
Game 2:  He opens with ancient tomb, lotus and memory jar witch I force.  He proceeds to do nothing of relevance for the next 2 turns and I kill him on turn 3.

3-0-1

Round 5:  Jesus Roxas (reflection) with Control Slaver
Jesus and I go to school together and test about once a week.  We both know that we’ve got to play it and that the matchup is about 60-40 in IT’s favor.
Game 1:   I keep a hand that was something like a turn ¾ protected kill, however he resolves a maindecked tormod’s crypt and I lose.
Game 2:  I draw a nutty hand and serve him quickly.
Game 3:  He plays his new tech from his buddy Rich Shay, dropping an early chalice at 1.  I didn’t see this coming, and have a hand consisting of +4 1 costers.  He’s got a mana crypt on the board and I eventually rip a confidant.  I damage from confidant and crypt made tendrils lethal at 1 storm.

4-0-1

Round 6:  Steve Menendian (meandeck) with Ichorid
Game 1:  I think he wins the dice roll and plays a therapy naming BS and whiffs. I rip duress and play it fearing a chalice at 1 next turn, and am forced to hit Darkblast. He dredges and plays a bazaar.  On my upkeep, I vamp for lotus after some combo math, only to be told by steve that I don’t have it (he knew my entire hand).  I check the math again and win on turn 2. 
Game 2:  He keeps a strong hand with bazaar, tcrypt, null rod, and mana.   My hand consisted of 1 dark rit, 1 cabal rit, a mana crypt, tendrils, BS, and 2 lands.  On turn 2 I BS’d into Demonic, but can’t do a whole lot with rod in play.  Turn 3 steve drops bazaar with rod and crypt on the table and things start to look bad for me.  Then on my turn I draw a my card and proceed to think for about 2 minutes about my plays.  Steve calls a judge (how ironic) and I come up with the play.  He is at 18 and here is what goes down

Dark rit -> DT for Chain of vapor -> mox + mana crypt -> chain of vapor the mox, crypt, and his null rod -> mox + crypt -> cabal rit -> tendrils for 18

Shortly thereafter Brian Demars congratulated me with a handshake and a revised dual.  Thanks Brian.

5-0-1

Round 7:  Mat Endress (GWS) with IT
Endress is 5-1 and I’m 5-0-1.  I concede so he can draw in, then if I win next round I will still t8.

5-1-1

Round 8:  5cuba stax
Game 1:  I resolve a thresholded cabal rit over a chalice at 1 and play bargain.  I barely win via bad cards and me sucking.
Game 2:  He get crucible strip and 3sphere quickly.  I scoop.
Game 3:  All I remember is an opening hand with demonic and intuition.  Seems good.

6-1-1

Top 8:  Mat Endress (GWS) with IT
Mat and I running similar maindecks except he didn’t run a scroll and something else for tinker and jar.
Game 1:  Mat ends up playing an intuition for twist, tinker, and necro on turn 1 or 2.  I give him jar since my hand is nuts and don’t want to lose it.  He proceeds to jar -> will -> twister -> into nothing and he discards his hand bringing it to 0 cards.  On my turn have intuition up and pass.  Endress proceeds to rip jar and activates (he’s got +5 artifact accel on the board).  He gets a hand with intuition, FoW, U card, and tendrils.  He plays intuition for bargain, rebuild, and card. I give him rebuild which he plays which I FoW, he FoW’s and I then I BS into FoW.  He then discards his only tendrils and concedes.
Game 2:  I draw a hand of:  Jet, hymn, 2x land, intuition, lotus, vamp.  I play turn 1 hymn and turn 2 kill him.

Top 4:  Jeff Anad with CS
Game 1: I win the dice roll and mull to 6 for a hand with turn 1 necro with FoW backup.  I necro for 11 into just stuff, and sculpt a hand with land, mox, FoW, U card, ancestral, DT, and something else.  On my turn 2 I play mox, DT for will, and necro for 4 more.  I ancestral on his upkeep and win the next turn with 2x FoW backup.
Game 2: He gets turn 1 welder. Turn 2 drain up. Turn 3 tinker and activate slaver FTW.
Game 3. I keep a hand with ancestral, BS, island, academy, and 3 other cards. I attempt ancestral on his upkeep which is Forced.  We go on to trade academies, and I can’t hit a black source for my life, because I BS’d into nothing and drew nothing for +5 turns.  I eventually draw a black source and he counters my ritual.  He then rips tinker off the top and proceeds to slave me the turn after I rip a black source.

I end up with a Time Walk and Endress takes a Ruby.  I go back to the hotel and talk with a bunch of people about IT.  I come to the conclusion, that its time to run type 2’s gayest card, Remand.  Remand is always nuts vs. drains and good vs. shops on the play.  Against drains I usually end up remanding my own spell to fizzle their counter as anti-tempo, but card advantage all while pulling out counters.  So, I ran the above list with the following changes

-1 Perplex
-1 Hurkyl’s
+2 Remand
SB
-1 Massacre
+1 Hurkyl’s

Round 1:  Ben Carp (ICBM) with Oath
Game 1:  He drops a chalice at 1, however I cabal rit over it and resolve bargain for the win.
Game 2:  He mulls to 4.  I keep it short.

1-0

Round 2:  Mike Scheen with 5c Grim Long
Game 1:  He goes off and I lose
Game 2:  I play turn 1 duress followed by a turn 2 hymn and combo him out shortly thereafter.
Game 3:  He plays a turn 2 wheel and I discard a coffin purge which he didn’t see.  I purge a ritual in response to his will and he fizzles.

2-0

Round 3:  Jeremy Seroogy (ICBM) with 5C stax
Game 1:  He wins the dice roll and opens with mox monkey and mox.  I drop a land and pass. He follows that up with a sphere of resistance.  I vamp or mystical for rebuild and continue to drop basic lands and play brainstorms.  On turn 4 he drops crucible and waste my fetch, since he knows that I only run 3 basics and I’m sitting on them and a fetch, so I fetch for Usea in response, which he wastes again, but I float mana from to play an intuition for fetches. The next turn I play an EOT rebuild and win.  This is a great example of how IT destroys stax.
Game 2:  He locks me out fast.
Game 3:  I keep a slow hand including 2 duress, remand, a mox, and 3 lands.  I remand his turn 1 chalice and duress it away.  I then proceed to draw another remand and ancestral over a few turns.  When I play the ancestral he Reb’d, so I remanded the ancestral, replayed it, and won.

3-0

Round 4:  Jacob Orlove (meandeck) with BW confidant
Both games where total blow outs. Game 2 he had 2 leylines start in play, but I double tendrils him for 22 damage.

4-0

Round 5:  Paul “the creator of type 4” guy (meandeck) with 5c Grim long
He gets a turn 1 necro.  I drop lotus into 2x duress and then scroll up an ancestral. He brainstorms into the nuts and attempts to kill (via jar) but fizzles, but he does vamp for will, and necros down to 2 life.  I play ancestral, land, and pass. He plays a dark rit and and yawg will, but remand blocks the will.  And then I attack with a spirit token for the win.

5-0

Round 6: Mike Jones with Slaver
I should be able to draw in at this point, but I get paired down and have to play vs. the luckiest slaver player of all time.
Game 1:  I destroy him, because the matchup is good.
Game 2:  He gets turn 3 tinker into a slave that turn.
Game 3:  I get the game exactly where I want it.  I’ve duressed away all his counters and have total control of the game, plus I have a confidant in play.  On about turn 4 or 5 and I’m 2 short on storm of winning so I pass the turn.  All he has is a slaver in hand and about 5 mana sources on the table.  He rips TFK, plays it, and draws DT, Lotus, and a land.  He then goes onto play will, welder, time walk.  He welds in slaver and kills me.

5-1

Round 7:  Kowal ID

5-1-1

T8:  Steve Menendian (meandeck) with Grim Long.
Game 1: I get a turn 3 kill on the play after a duress or two.
Game 2: We trade duresses.  On turn 3 he attempts grim tutor for a yawg will, however I have an intuition in hand.  I respond with some calculations and intuition for coffin purge and dark rits. I purge his lotus, however that’s not enough to stop him from winning.  I’m not sure what happens, but he plays a will with 6 available mana afterwards with DT in yard, but doesn’t put it together, so he plays a draw 7 into a tendrils and wins. 
Game 3:  I duress a wheel of fortune out of his mulligan hand that is something like

Lotus, 2x dark rit, tendrils, mana crypt, and wheel

I end up making a misplay of not playing Demonic for Bargain, and get ancestral instead.  Luckily, I ancestral into the nuts and win.

Top 4:  Brian Fisher (GWS) with Slaver
Game 1:  He gets a turn 3 slave here on the play.

Game 2:  Removed.

Game 3:  I play a turn 2 duress which he BS’s to in response.  For some reason I felt the need to remand the BS so he had to bust his fecthland.  This was definitely not the play, but it doesn’t matter.  He plays BS again.  He goes on to strip mine my Usea and I can’t draw a black source for the rest of the game.  Fisher went on to beat Kowal in the Finals.

So I ended up 11-1-2 in 2 days of swiss.  All of my losses came to slaver, despite it being a very favorable matchup.  From previous tournaments, I was a cumulative 5-0 vs. slaver, but this weekend I went 1-3.  GWS ends up taking 4 top 8’s for the weekend and wins the event day 2.  So, our team ended up with a Lotus, Time Walk, Sapphire, and a Ruby for the weekend.  With only 5 people in Richmond, we where 25% of the top 8.

Props:
Starcity for hosting another awesome event
Remand for being the nuts
Mat Endress and Brian Fisher for both t8ing
Rhyno for owning the Vintage draft scene and driving infi
Matt Morrison for his Five-Color, 250 card storm combo deck
Me going 5-0 vs. team meandeck and winning 2 pieces of power
Everyone who I hung out with on Saturday and Sunday night
Food Lion

Slops:
Slaver for turn 3 Mindslavers each match
The Café that wanted $3 for a muffin
Mike Jones for beating 4 midwest players on luck (while being a douche)
The lady who was FING crazy and slammed into the road barrier
What GWS stands for
« Last Edit: March 23, 2006, 11:58:20 am by kobefan » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2006, 02:51:12 pm »

Congratulation on the fantastic finishes Eric. I am glad you finally posted a decklist.

I am really glad you beat Steve after he told you you didnt have the win. In my playing against you I have also found that you do not play slow either.

I am under the impression that this is a very polished list...but why did you add Timetwister back into the deck? Also, how was the merchant scroll? Is it actually better than perplex (Day 2)?
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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2006, 03:11:31 pm »

I am under the impression that this is a very polished list...but why did you add Timetwister back into the deck? Also, how was the merchant scroll? Is it actually better than perplex (Day 2)?

Merchant Scroll was great, but I don't plan on adding another, since once you find ancestral, it becomes significantly worse.  Only once did I wish scroll was FoW the entire weekend and that was during an opponents draw 7.  Perplex and a hurkyl's were cut for remands day 2, which were amazing almost every time I drew them (and even lead to a turn 1 kill).

Timetwister was returned to the maindeck over FoF since FoF was awful vs random stuff, which is where twister really shines.  For example, twister is nuts vs. ichorid, fish, and sui.  Lastly, twister is the safety button in the deck for when something goes wrong.
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« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2006, 03:24:53 pm »

Nice read Eric.  Nice job on creating a beast of a deck even though you cut "staples"  like tinker and Desire (with endress cutting Twist).  This only goes to show that there are pretty much no cards that are always automatic in a deck.

Did you and Mat ever decide which is better: Fetchland #7 or Swamp #2?  I was told the debate got heated.

LOL @ you and Endress both getting warnings for standing on chairs.  You guys are dicks Smile
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« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2006, 03:29:09 pm »

MAN!  You didn't give me any props, nor did you even mention, that you were the proud recipiant of a dual land for defeating Steve in the Swiss!!!!  That is harsh dude!!
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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2006, 03:29:31 pm »

Congrats on an awesome weekend, I'm looking forward to the primer.  You did seem to face a lot of turn 3 Mindslavers + activation.  I was really interested to see descriptions of your matches with Stax and aggro, since I haven't seen the deck in those matchups.
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« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2006, 03:47:21 pm »

Did you and Mat ever decide which is better: Fetchland #8 or Swamp #2?  I was told the debate got heated.

I really see no reason to play another basic swamp in the maindeck. It is only somewhat useful in the stax matchup, however much more frequently will result in color screw vs. other decks. Endress argues that it wastes a sideboard slot, however I feel that I want 15 lands vs stax post board so its not a wasted slot.
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« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2006, 05:18:02 pm »

Awesome list eric, and congrats on the two top 8s! It was cool to hang with some of the midwest crowd for a change, hopefully Jaco and I will make it out to one of the other starcity double weekends. 

Nick
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P.S. I dont mean to rain on the parade, but I was watching your games against brian, and I remember thinking you were a mana short of your turn 1 kill; if your report is correct then I was right. still, awesome job.
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« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2006, 05:38:08 pm »

P.S. I dont mean to rain on the parade, but I was watching your games against brian, and I remember thinking you were a mana short of your turn 1 kill; if your report is correct then I was right. still, awesome job.
I heard this too, but his numbers look like they add up:

Lotus (UUU)
BS (UU)
Mox pearl (UUW)
Mox sapphire on the stack (UUW)
Remand the sapphire (U)
Play sapphire (UU)
Mox jet (UUB)
BS (UB)
Dark rit (UBBB)
Tendrils (s=10)

Also, it was great to meet you (and by "you" I mean Becker, and Nick, and everyone else), and I really enjoyed our games despite being blown out (more so against Becker, but double Old Man of the Sea was vicious too).
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« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2006, 07:58:45 pm »

He actually was, but nobody really was certain enough until after the fact--  Dark Rit was Cabal Rit.

I wouldn't stress myself about it anyway--  The end result was the same, and it was definitely not with malicious intent.

Hilarious match to watch though.  You and Fisher are great crowd-pleasers.  I only hope my finals match was similarly fun to watch.
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« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2006, 10:30:03 pm »

He actually was, but nobody really was certain enough until after the fact--  Dark Rit was Cabal Rit.

I wouldn't stress myself about it anyway--  The end result was the same, and it was definitely not with malicious intent.

It was a cabal rit. In the match I thought I had an additional mana in my pool, so I played a cabal rit with a black mana (and the supposed remaining floating blue), and tapped the sapphire and played the tendrils. It was an honest mistake. When retracing my steps when writing my report I noticed that I was a mana short. I guess I prob should have left this whole game out of the report, but instead I changed the cabal rit to a dark rit.  I figured since I had a bunch of people ask me about the kill, I would change the rits it to make it work.  My bad, I'm sorry.  The judge and my opponent missed it too.

Well, this isn't the first time I accidently cheated in a large tournament.  I placed 14th in Legacy worlds with a Second Sunrise deck that didn't even work (I lost the last round to miss a t8).  Here's the story on that one.  I built a savage combo deck that was a consistant turn 3/4 turn kill with disruption.  Basically, I would play rain of filth (all lands you control gain, sac for a black mana), float a bunch of mana, sac them, then play second sunrise, float mana, sac them for black, and locate another second sunrise with my floating mana. I would continue this loop until I had lethal storm for a brain freeze or a tendrils.  The entire event I had judges all over me and none of them caught the interaction.  A few weeks later I released the deck and I found out the combo didn't work.  I'm such a savage cheater, right?

Anyways, now that we are past that, what do you guys think of the deck?
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« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2006, 10:34:03 pm »

Eric Becker--unintentionally cheating his way into prizes with judges watching him since 2005.

Ok-something real.  Did you ever feel you lacked tutors on day 2 only running 3?  With 4 you can tutor early, then Intuition for them later.
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« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2006, 10:43:36 pm »

It's okay Eric--  We love you anyway.

Or at least, I do.  Are we still on for dinner tonight? 
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« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2006, 12:32:26 am »

Congrats Eric, you have the best record against me of anyone in Vintage that I'm aware of. 

I *eagerly* look forward to our rematch. 
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« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2006, 01:01:43 am »

Anyways, now that we are past that, what do you guys think of the deck?

Congrats on building a savage deck considering most of the cards have been around forever. I think the overwhelming success of the deck is going to skyrocket it's popularity and now that there is a list available, EVERYONE is going to be playing it.

BTW, the Confidants in the SB for the control match...Genius!
« Last Edit: March 23, 2006, 02:07:52 am by Rapalaman1 » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2006, 01:46:12 am »

Did you ever feel you lacked tutors on day 2 only running 3?  With 4 you can tutor early, then Intuition for them later.

I never missed the Perplex day 2, however I still feel that it's a good card in the deck. I did Intuition for Demonic, 2x Grim tutor at least twice on Sunday.

BTW, the Confidants in the SB for the control match...Genius!
The confidants come in against stax to play around Chalice set at 1. The SB confidants are great vs. slaver and gifts since they are synergistic with therapies.
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« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2006, 05:24:34 am »

hmmmm... I don´t have Grim Tutors.... I have an Imperial Seal .... Would the deck work without Grim or would it lose too much?

EDIT: Never mind, I just located somebody who can provide the two Grims Very Happy

What surprises me is the absence of Tinker/Jar in the deck. I suppose you like Twister better because it is only one card, not susceptible to Null Rod and it can recuperate a lost Will or Tendrils in the GY??
« Last Edit: March 23, 2006, 06:14:12 am by Gabethebabe » Logged
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« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2006, 07:45:23 am »

First, congratz to your great finishes with a really strong and perfectly tuned deck!

I have a question regarding your Sb plan against Gifts/Slaver: When you bring in 4 Confidants, 3 Therapies, Hymn and maybe Coffin Purge - what do you Sb out? You have to cut a lot of blue cards which drastically increases the number of blue cards to support Force of Will. So do you Sb out FoW? Seems a bit risky imo.
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« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2006, 08:31:41 am »


The confidants come in against stax to play around Chalice set at 1. The SB confidants are great vs. slaver and gifts since they are synergistic with therapies.
I see in one of you games that you also have Duress after Sb against Stax. I find that a little amazing, Duresses are normally the first cards that leave when I play against shop.dec
« Last Edit: March 23, 2006, 09:59:12 am by Gabethebabe » Logged
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« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2006, 09:25:21 am »

The black mana requirement for Duress/therapy vs. Stax is not that bad when you have two basic swamps in your deck and enough fetchlands to get them. 1st turn duress can still grab a lock piece.

Actually I think he mentioned the Therapy/confidant synergy only for the Gifts/slaver and not the Stax matchup. I doubt that he brings the additional discard in against stax.
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« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2006, 11:23:11 am »

hmmmm... I don´t have Grim Tutors.... I have an Imperial Seal .... Would the deck work without Grim or would it lose too much?

EDIT: Never mind, I just located somebody who can provide the two Grims Very Happy

What surprises me is the absence of Tinker/Jar in the deck. I suppose you like Twister better because it is only one card, not susceptible to Null Rod and it can recuperate a lost Will or Tendrils in the GY??

Endress opted to play Tinker/Jar over Twister and Merchant Scroll.  The deck is actually pretty customizable and has probably 8 customizable slots (although about 5 of those slots are pretty standard).  More on this whenever Endress finds his jump drive and sends his primer.
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« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2006, 11:40:48 am »

hmmmm... I don´t have Grim Tutors.... I have an Imperial Seal .... Would the deck work without Grim or would it lose too much?

EDIT: Never mind, I just located somebody who can provide the two Grims Very Happy

What surprises me is the absence of Tinker/Jar in the deck. I suppose you like Twister better because it is only one card, not susceptible to Null Rod and it can recuperate a lost Will or Tendrils in the GY??
The deck needs Grim tutor. I actually wasn't running Vamp tutor for a while, until Jdizzle talked some sense back into me. Vamp was amazing all weekend, but I'd be hesitant to add imperial seal.

I don't like tinker jar for a number of reasons
1) the deck is packed with tutors, so a draw7 results in hads that look like:   2x land, BS, intuition, FoW, Dark Rit, Grim. I rarely play twister, I play it only when I have to.
2) Twister is the safety button, and the deck only needs one
3) I've have a history of memory jars getting hit by stifle or null rods showing up when I pass the turn.

All that said Endress ran Tinker Jar.  I really don't think it belongs in the deck.

The black mana requirement for Duress/therapy vs. Stax is not that bad when you have two basic swamps in your deck and enough fetchlands to get them. 1st turn duress can still grab a lock piece.

Actually I think he mentioned the Therapy/confidant synergy only for the Gifts/slaver and not the Stax matchup. I doubt that he brings the additional discard in against stax.

Stax is a tough deck to SB against. When on the play, I prefer to keep in duress over FoW for disruption. However, I'm unsure if when on the play if I should just board out both FoW and Duress. Against 5C stax I like having duress instead of nothing, so I can deal with enchantments. 
« Last Edit: March 23, 2006, 11:45:40 am by kobefan » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2006, 11:44:10 am »

P.S. I dont mean to rain on the parade, but I was watching your games against brian, and I remember thinking you were a mana short of your turn 1 kill; if your report is correct then I was right. still, awesome job.
I heard this too, but his numbers look like they add up:

Lotus (UUU)
BS (UU)
Mox pearl (UUW)
Mox sapphire on the stack (UUW)
Remand the sapphire (U)
Play sapphire (UU)
Mox jet (UUB)
BS (UB)
Dark rit (UBBB)
Tendrils (s=10)

Also, it was great to meet you (and by "you" I mean Becker, and Nick, and everyone else), and I really enjoyed our games despite being blown out (more so against Becker, but double Old Man of the Sea was vicious too).
I talked to Jim Gaffney about it, and he was almost possitive that he was short 1 maa... The stack you listed Orlove I believe is missing a brainstorm that he cast putting back 2 cards (then drawing 1 of them with remand)... which would make him 1 mana short... However, it was done extremely fast, and it is a judges fault (or opponents fault for not asking the player to slow down) not the players in a situation like this.

Overall, the deck is interesting, but I think your arguement with running FoW has alot of flaws.

Congrats on the good results!

Kyle L
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« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2006, 11:56:42 am »

Kyle: read the two posts after mine. In the actual event, it was a Cabal Rit.
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« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2006, 12:00:09 pm »

Kyle: read the two posts after mine. In the actual event, it was a Cabal Rit.

ah ok... I just have my doubts when there are multiple people doubting the mana #'s etc... However, if thats true I guess it all adds up.
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« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2006, 01:55:37 pm »

so when does the primer on this come out?
I gotta say, I goldfished about 60 games last night...and this deck hates me.  I get TONS of hands with all mana sources, or all heat but no blue mana sources, or all tutors but no heat, or hands that won't win through disruption...so I've got some doubts.  Not saying the deck is bad...just saying I might not be getting it.
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« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2006, 03:10:48 pm »

Eric great job man. It's good to see that Midwest continues to show why we are badass seriously great job man.
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« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2006, 04:07:38 pm »

Upon returning to the hotel we find out we are at the same hotel as Meandeck and “That Douchebag” Mike Scheen (jk Mike, you’re cool).

You can't even spell my name.  Mike Shean.

Its comforting to know that whenever I want Eric Becker to lose a match, all I have to do is sit next to him.

Day 1 - I'm sitting next to him as hes playing Samite Healer in T8.  Samite proceeds to activate Slaver on Eric turn 3.

Day 2 - I'm watching him play CS.  Eric is going to win next turn, and the CS guy has only Slaver in hand.  He topdecks TfK, TfKs into like Lotus, Time Walk, D Tutor, or something equally broken, casts Yawg's Will and starts a slaver loop.  GG.

Anyways, congrats on the T8s Eric.
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« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2006, 07:12:11 pm »

I was woundering if Relearn was ever tested in this deck it seems like it might be good, for you who dont know what this cards does its one colorless and double blue sorcery return target instant or sorcery card from your graveyard to your hand the deck is nothing but instant and sorcery so its like a regrowth in blue the only thing you cant get back is a land and your two enchantments. I thought it might be a good intution target so you can get back a broken card like ancestral recall or whatever you need. Please dont flame me its just a suggestion it may be to slow for the deck.

There is a problem with your post you know that your sentence is too long there are no connecting words or punctuation separating your different thoughts/ideas so in the future please make sure you don't write sentences like these because will have to give you warnings.  Seriously though, verbal warning issued.  Further offenses will be real warnings.  Please read the TMD rules, and in particular:
1) Writing Skills

-Kowal
« Last Edit: March 23, 2006, 07:30:50 pm by Kowal » Logged
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« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2006, 07:33:22 pm »

I was woundering if Relearn was ever tested in this deck it seems like it might be good, for you who dont know what this cards does its one colorless and double blue sorcery return target instant or sorcery card from your graveyard to your hand the deck is nothing but instant and sorcery so its like a regrowth in blue the only thing you cant get back is a land and your two enchantments. I thought it might be a good intution target so you can get back a broken card like ancestral recall or whatever you need. Please dont flame me its just a suggestion it may be to slow for the deck.

Sorry, prob would be bad. I think someone could effectively run red and recoup in a metagame that differs from that of the midwest (AKA infi wastelands).
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