Clone Frog

[asmoranomardicodais]

So, I was really unhappy with the way that they did the Simic Guild. When I saw Cytoshape, I thought that most of the guild should've been built aound the turning creatures into other creatures idea. Anyways, I was thinking of ways to make more cards around that idea, and I came up with this:


Clone Frog
2UG

Creature- Frog

You may play Clone Frog anytime you may play an instant.

When Clone Frog comes into play, choose a creature in play. All creatures become a copy of that creature until end of turn.

2/2


Is that too power for 4cc, or just about right? I hate my name for it, but I want it to stay a frog. Also, it doesn't need the play as an instant clause, but its interesting that way to do a lot of combat tricks.

Clone Frog
3UG

Creature- Frog

You may play Clone Frog anytime you may play an instant.

When Clone Frog comes into play, choose a nonlegendary creature. All creatures that creature's controller controls become a copy of that creature until end of turn.

2/2

[The Atog Lord]

How about choosing a non-legend creature? Otherwise he is a UG instant Wrath of Frog.

[asmoranomardicodais]

How about choosing a non-legend creature? Otherwise he is a UG instant Wrath of Frog.

OMG, best quote evar. Yeah, I'll make that change.

[Ephraim]

So, I was really unhappy with the way that they did the Simic Guild. When I saw Cytoshape, I thought that most of the guild should've been built aound the turning creatures into other creatures idea.

I just wanted to note that the guild was based on this idea, to a degree.  A creature with a +1/+1 counter on it "becomes" Sporeback Troll, Aquastrand Spider, etc... at least to the extent that it gains those creatures' useful abilities.

That said, I don't like this card, especially associated as it is with the Simic Guild.  All you have to do is pick an ordinary Simic creature (the kind that is 0/0 and comes into play with +1/+1 counters on it) and every other creature that doesn't have +1/+1 counters on it becomes a 0/0 and is put into the graveyard as a state-based effect.

[Matt]

That is a good point. Does it work if you say "...with nonzero toughness"?

[Godder]

You would have to use printed toughness, but I'm not sure if that's even allowed in Magic. Wrath of Frog indeed...

[asmoranomardicodais]

Alright, what if I change it too:

As Clone Frog comes into play, choose a non-legendary creature. Clone Frog comes into play as the chosen creature until end of turn. Then, if Clone Frog is still in play, All creatures become a copy of that creature until end of turn.

I intentionally made it so it came into play as the creature, so that it would die before graft would feed it counters, but I'm not exactly sure if thats how the rules work. Does this wording work? And if so, are there any other problems with the card?

[Matt]

I really wish there were a better way to do that. :<

[LordHomerCat]

As its worded, won't Clone Frog always be in play regardless, because SBE won't be checked in the middle of the ability, so he will just be in play as a 0/0 ?

[neppy]

As Clone Frog comes into play, choose a non-legendary creature.
Clone Frog comes into play as the chosen creature until end of turn and gains "When Clone Frog comes into play, if its in play, All creatures become a copy of that creature until end of turn."

This accomplishes what your looking for which is to allow a chance for a 0/0 frog to die before the copying effect will kill everything.  Its incredibly ugly and awkward though.  I'm sure theres a way to clean it up.

[Norm4eva]

Since it's "as -this- CIP" it's just part of the resolution of the spell, so Clone Frog would definitely still be in play and the creatures would die.  I suppose you could limit the ability to creatures you control?  There's a lot less incentive to turn everything into Phantom Centaur that way... not that turning everything into Phantom Centaur shouldn't be the goal of every green mage ever. :P  But it definitely avoids the "as this CIP, if it's in play" crap.

[Nefarias]

Another small issue with the wording: it needs to say "choose a creature in play." I believe as worded, you could choose any creature ever printed, making all you elves Dragon Tyrants of whatever.

[parallax]

"Clone Frog comes into play as the chosen creature until end of turn." will still give the Frog graft counters. "Then, if Clone Frog is still in play, All creatures become a copy of that creature until end of turn." will kill all other creatures (except graft creatures).

There is no clean wording that prevents this card from being a WoF. The best wording I can think of is:

When ~this~ comes into play, it gains substance and becomes a copy of target creature.
When ~this~ gains substance, if it is still in play, all creatures become a copy of it.

[Matt]

Hm. Actually, there IS a clean wording that prevents this from being a Wrath of Frog:

"When Clone Frog comes into play, choose a creature. All creatures you control become a copy of that creature until end of turn."

This is actually much stronger than the original card, because if my guys get to become 5/5s while yours stay at normal stats, you're in for a massive asswhooping. It would definitely need to cost 3UG or more (2UGG?).

If you limit it to your own guys, there's no need to put "nonlegendary" on the card either (who knows, maybe you have a [card]Mirror Gallery[/card] and want six Sol'Kanars?). This might sound kind of strong - turning all your Saprolings into Thorn Elemental is pretty good - but that means you already got a Thorn Elemental into play, which was the hard part.

If it's a problem, make it: "When Clone Frog comes into play, choose a creature. All nontoken creatures you control become a copy of that creature until end of turn."

Or, to maybe make it more interesting:

"When Clone Frog comes into play, choose a nonlegendary creature. All creatures that creature's controller controls become a copy of that creature until end of turn."

You don't want to punish people for playing legends, but this is also interesting. Now it's a hoser for graft/phantoms/arcbound. It's also much more interesting for multiplayer.

[LordHomerCat]

Changing your own guys does seem cool, and eliminates the whole Wrath effect.

Oh, and someone needs to make a card called Wrath of Frog, as that would be amazing.  I don't care what it does, as long as the name fits =]

[asmoranomardicodais]

I really wanted it to get everything, but I see your points, and the cleanest wording would definitively be to have it only turn one side into that creature. I'll change it to that, and bump the cost to five.

[Matt]

I really wanted it to get everything, but I see your points, and the cleanest wording would definitively be to have it only turn one side into that creature. I'll change it to that, and bump the cost to five.

I know, I did too. But I don't think there's any other way.

[Ephraim]

You can retain the flavour of the card, but have it work in a different way.  For example...

Mimeo Frog
{G}
Creature -- Frog
2/2

: Put a mucus counter on target creature.
: Remove a mucus counter from target creature with a mucus counter on it.  Every creature becomes a copy of that creature until end of turn.

OR

Mimeo Frog
{G}
Creature -- Frog
0/0

Graft 2
: Every creature becomes a copy of target creature with a +1/+1 counter on it until end of turn.

***

The second option captures some of the flavour that excited you in the first place while maintaining the flavour that Wizards has already established for the Simic Combine.

[asmoranomardicodais]

Isn't that second one just a reusable Wrath of Frog? (OMG, that is my favorite phrase ever).

All in all though,I love the surprise value that this card can have. It can do a lot, and although it now doesn't turn everything, it also does't make everything equal. Suppose the opponent attack with all there creatures. You can simply cast Clone Frog and have them all turn into him, all becoming 2/2's. Actually, if thats to powerful I'll change it to "as", so Clone Frog can't target itself.

I'm moderately happy with this card, so can I get a name and some flavor text?

[Ephraim]

Isn't that second one just a reusable Wrath of Frog? (OMG, that is my favorite phrase ever).

You're right.  I totally lost sight of the goal.  I got so caught up in the idea of giving it two abilities, so that I could force an opportunity for checking SBE's to kill the frog, that I forgot that the frog needed to become the copy of the creature, first. (I lost that when I realized that the solution involved causing Mimeo Frog to become a creature and then gain back it's own abilities.  Very cumbersome.)

In conclusion, please ignore the suggestions I posted above.  They are terrible.

[parallax]

When Clone Frog comes into play, it becomes a copy of target creature.
When Clone Frog comes into play, if it is still in play, all creatures become a copy of Clone Frog.

I think this works. Add "non-Legendary" if you don't like the Hero's Demise effect. If you stack the abilities in the other order, everything becomes a 2/2 Clone Frog, which seems acceptable. Otherwise it works as originally intended.

Edit: Nevermind. Comes-into-play triggered abilities give graft creatures plenty of time to donate a +1/+1 to the Frog before the copy ability resolves. As-this-comes-into-play abilities grant the graft counters naturally. This won't work without a hack. You either switch to creatures with the same controller or add an ugly ability to the Frog itself. Something like:

When Clone Frog comes into play, all creatures become a copy of target non-Legendary creature and gain +1/+1 until end of turn.

or
 
When Clone Frog comes into play, all creatures become a copy of target non-Legendary creature and creatures with toughness less than one have a toughness of one until end of turn.

or even

When Clone Frog comes into play, it becomes a copy of target creature.
When Clone Frog comes into play, if it is still in play, all creatures become a copy of Clone Frog.
Clone Frog gets -1/-1 for each +1/+1 counter on it.

Otherwise, you're stuck with

When Clone Frog comes into play, all creatures target player controls become a copy of target non-Legendary creature that player controls until end of turn.

[Harlequin]

Hey, I kinda like that:

Clone Frog
3UG

Creature- Frog

You may play Clone Frog anytime you may play an instant.

When Clone Frog comes into play, it becomes a copy of target non-legnedary creature an opponent controls with "all creatures are copies of this creature" until end of turn.

"Beware the wrath of frog....ribbit"
  - Chub Toad's last words
2/2

#1) The ENTIRE trigger is 'fizzled' if the frog has no legal targets, or the target is removed or becomes illegal.
#2) It only is "wrath of frog" if your opponent controls a creature with 0/0 as the card printed p/t.  And alot of times creatures that are 0/0's have some way of removing counters so they can be sac'd in response (like Pentavus, and our Spike Friends from tempest block).  So even if they have a 0/0 in play, they may be able to prevent the wrath of frog by makeing 5 pentavites for example.
#3) Its simply 1 triggered ability, that gives the new clone a static ability that effects everyone's creature until end of turn.  So it's concise and not verbally overwhelming.

[asmoranomardicodais]

Okay, I like Halrquin's reccomenndation. I also like the reccomendation of making all creatures copies with +1/+1 until end of turn, because I had clicked this thread to iniate that very same change. Now I'm not sure which I like better. Any thoughts?

[parallax]

Harlequin's suggestion works quite well. If your opponent has a 0/0 creature, then it already has counters keeping it alive. The card is still powerful with graft creatures, but it's only Wrath of Frog if your opponent has at least one creature that will survive anyway. It also keeps most of the flavor intact without introducing complicated or flavorless abilities.

When Clone Frog comes into play, all creatures become a copy of target non-Legendary creature an opponent controls.

Plus, you still get to use the phrase "Wrath of Frog" when your opponent has a 0/0 creature. The +1/+1 version comboes with Spinal Parasite, though. Versions that can target your own creatures allow you to build your deck around it. The opponent-only versions only combo with decks that produce tokens and such.