[Single Card Discussion] Coldsnap: Requisition

[dicemanx]

This is the kind of card that isn't necessarily going to be that strong, but the *threat* that it will pose might affect how the opposing deck plays its spells (combo especially). This is very similar to Daze: the threat is often stronger than the actual execution of that threat.

Plus, let's not forget that if you actually reach 7 mana, this is a potentially terrifying spell in your arsenal, especially against non-control decks.

[warble]

This is very similar to Daze

No, it's not, Daze costs 0 cards from your hand.  This costs two.  This is R&D's "balanced" Force of Will reprint.  I would liken it's power level to Trash for Treasure compared to Tinker.  The same would be Requisition compared to Force of Will, and Brainstorm compared to Ancestral Recall.  It's just not broken, but situationally and in combination with other cards and the proper deck it has some usability.  What it just doesn't have is that brokenness that defines cards in Type 1.  When a card is broken it finds uses in multiple decks, like Dark Ritual and Duress and Goblin Welder.  When a card is not only strictly inferior to another card already printed that has that brokenness, but doesn't provide a hard solution to anything, that means it isn't playable in type 1.  Misdirection has a number of conditional uses and only costs 1 card, but it can't be played (well it can, but it's a metagame slot and you lose a duress for it).  The limited scope and the fact that you can only use this defensively once your opponent plays a threat means that both a utility card and a soft counter would fit into any deck that chooses this card more easily than this card.  And to trump the turn 0 argument, Leyline of the Void is far better at combatting turn 0 than this card can ever hope to be.

Edit:  Dice, man, you have to use Daze to have it be a threat.  When are you going to use requisition again?  Hence, your argument boils down to one statement that sums up the flaws with playing the card in type 1.  Learn to read a train of thought instead of jumping to conclusions    I was, in a way, giving you props for summing up how the card is inferior so concisely.

[dicemanx]

No, it's not, Daze costs 0 cards from your hand.

Learn to appreciate the context before you reply.

[Harlequin]

Its not really 3 for 1 ... its more like 3 for 2 or 2 for 1.  Because in essense your countering a spell, and replaying that spell for free.  So thats -1 for them, and +1 for you.

You Loose: -1 Spell, -2 Blue cards [total -3]
Your Opponent looses: -1 Spell [total -1]
You Gain: +1 Spell [total -3 + 1 = -2]

Its not accurate :
You Loose: -1 Spell, -2 Blue cards [total -3]
Your Opponent looses: -1 Spell [total +1; -2 CA](CD for opponent = CA for you)
You Gain: +1 Spell [total -3 + 1 + 1 = -1]

Same CD as a Force of Will

I was working it out uniquely for you and your opponent so what I ment was:

You Loose: -1 Spell, -2 Blue cards [your total: -3]
Your Opponent looses: -1 Spell [your opponents total total: -1]
You Gain: +1 Spell [your total: -3 + 1 = -2]

The point being, your opponent gets hit for -1 card, and you get hit for a net change of -2 cards.  So additively you loose 1 more Card Advantage as compaired to your opponent. Which, as you pointed out, is the same as Force of Will.  

-- There is a list of cards that this spell doesnt help with: Lands, Creatures, Oath, and most Stax artifacts (Tanglewire, Chalice, Spheres, Uba, Null Rod)
-- You have plenty of "Sub-optimal" uses of the spell, Stealing: Thirst, Brainstorm, Some potential stax artifacts (Smokestack, Cap, Jar), Pithing Needle, Black Lotus, other counterspells.
Lets assume that you don't use it for anything in the above cards...

-- So lets focus on the "Fairly Good" uses of the card: Time walk, Yawgmoths Will (remeber that you will steal it durring thier turn), any tutor, Gifts Ungiven, FoF, Intuition, or Duress or even an Ancestral. All these gives you time or cards to return your lost Card Advantage to at least Newtral (but sinse when is control shooting for "Newtral"?).

-- Then you have the game-ending steal on Tinker or Yawgmoths Bargin.  If you can land this spell on either of these cards you can swing the game in your favor in a magnitude stronger than that of Mana Drain.  For this reason, It is extremely strong.  You simulatainously counter the threat, and copy the threat in your advantage.... and win the game.

I think the pitch cost is not nessisarily too extreme if veiwed in a vaccume in which the spell always resolves.  The key problem of the card is the sharp risk of it being countered.  It might as well say "If this does not resolve, you loose the game"  Simultaniously, you basically loose any hope of protecting of the spell when you pay the ACC.  For this reason alone, I think the card is too much of a liability to winning the game.  It can potentially win you the game, but more frequently I can see this card loosing the game instead.

[Grand Inquisitor]

I don't think the biggest problem with this card is it's cost.  If you think about it, you routinely invest comparable levels of resources into plays such as bargain, or slaver, or tendrils (at a given storm).  The difference here isn't what happens if the card gets countered, it's that you expect to win the game if it resolves.  I would say that since this is so reactive, it's not nearly as likely as we expect that this will actually just hands down win you the game.  For example, on ancestral recall, it's barely parity.  The more competitive a game of magic is, usually, the more marginal the moves towards victory need to be; unless everyone was trying to cast bargain all the time, this probably won't be worth it's investment.

[freakish777]

Requisitioning Welders doesn't work.  It's non-creature.

Check.


Requisitioning Necro or Bargain would be amazing (I would happily pitch Tinker and Gifts to steal my opponent's Bargain, and how often is Bargain backed by countermagic?).

GI has the best reason to not run it so far.  The card disadvantage can be overlooked, the problem is that you really need to be stealling a game ending bomb with it, and you're not guarenteed that your opponent runs into them.  In an environment where AR, Necro, Bargain or Tinker was legal as a 4 of, this card would be run for sure, both to force your bombs through and to steal the opponent's (if it were AR, you'd obviously run 4 MisDs first and then maybe 2 Requisition, but seeing as how MisD by itselft doesn't stop the other 3, I'd run 4 Requisition in an environment where 4 Tinkers were legal). 

[klu]

As i told previously, this card will not be a main deck card because of the number of control decks in the format, i don't even talk about fish, against which the card is pretty useless.
But against most combo deck, the card appears to be pretty excellent. i'll list here the cards it steals to grim long for example :
-ancestral recall
-black lotus
-duress x4
-necro
-bargain
-demonic tutor
-grim tutor x3
-ywill
-memory jar
-tinker
-regrowth
(-brainstorm? sol ring?)
   = 16, which are all really good targets that may mean game for you.
the matter is the number of blue card the deck is packing. I think of a good minimum of 26-27 to be effective and to have choice in what to remove.
just steal demonic or grim, play your ancestral and you'll have the same number of cards in hand.

Edit : i think it will be a lot more effective than duresses in sb against combo. Plus it empties one of my sb slot.

All here is only theory, it will have to be tested to see if it's an efficient strategy of SBing.

[Mr. Nightmare]

Yawg Will is barely qualified as a card worth stealing.  It will always be your opponent's turn, so most of your insane plays (Lotus, Fetches, Moxen, Tinker, Tendrils, Walk, etc.) won't be available.  You could reuse a Recall, but even then its only card parity.  I think you'd almost always be better off just countering the Will.

[Purple Hat]

I'm having a ton of trouble figureing out when I'd EVER pitch two blue cards to steal duress.....if I have only drain, this and two blue cards I don't care about, AND I'm playing against a combo deck AND I have UU up, then I can see it, but short of that reasonably bizzare situation I just don't get why you'd do it.

if you have will in your hand and no brainstorm and two blue cards that suck and this then yeah...but why are you playing blue cards that suck when there's so many good ones?  Otherwise you're looking at pitching broken blue stuff you'd want to use on your will turn to prevent them from taking your will and cast duress.....aren't you just better off getting to cast your good spells once than not at all?

I'm willing to buy the "if this resolves on bargain you win the game" argument, but the "duress is a good target" argument is a bit much for me.

[klu]

well, just don't counter duress and let it resolve.. your opponent will have to remove this card from your hand before going nuts..

[Purple Hat]

if your opponent has only one threat in hand and you have two other cards that suck then yes, it's a good play.  my point was more that if you steal duress with this you basically make your opponent win either this turn or next, it's not really important.

[Conan_barberarn]

@Purple Hat:
I don't agree with your reasoning. Say opponet plays first and lays land duress, you have this hand:
Drain
Requisition
Gifts
Ancestral
2x Land
Mox

Since he's duressing you, you can assume that he wants to force a biggie through next turn (or even this one). So you pitch drain and gifts and snag somthing from him, then you draw a card and play your ancestral. Seems like a fairly good way to get out of a dangerous situation when your on the play. Note that a FoW in the same situation wouldn't have helped (like requisition did).

@The post talking about subpar requi-targets above:
Being on the draw against STAX can really be a bitch. Being able to steal CoW, Smokestack, Wire (even though thats not a good play for him 1st turn) or simply stealing a mana generating artefact could be great. Imagine him playing waste, vault and you steal it then you go land gifts!

The card isn't great against control since chances are it will get countered but it helpes control in it's weaker matchups like STAX and Combo. The trick is, as already mentioned, to get it to resolve.

[Implacable]

@Purple Hat:
I don't agree with your reasoning. Say opponet plays first and lays land duress, you have this hand:
Drain
Requisition
Gifts
Ancestral
2x Land
Mox

Since he's duressing you, you can assume that he wants to force a biggie through next turn (or even this one). So you pitch drain and gifts and snag somthing from him, then you draw a card and play your ancestral. Seems like a fairly good way to get out of a dangerous situation when your on the play. Note that a FoW in the same situation wouldn't have helped (like requisition did).

@The post talking about subpar requi-targets above:
Being on the draw against STAX can really be a bitch. Being able to steal CoW, Smokestack, Wire (even though thats not a good play for him 1st turn) or simply stealing a mana generating artefact could be great. Imagine him playing waste, vault and you steal it then you go land gifts!

The card isn't great against control since chances are it will get countered but it helpes control in it's weaker matchups like STAX and Combo. The trick is, as already mentioned, to get it to resolve.

Of course, that example seems pretty subjective.  Conveniently having Ancestral is the only way that that hand is actually good.

[Conan_barberarn]

@Implacable:
It is common to have at least one bomb in your opening hand. If you don't have ancestral it might be tinker (+crypt) or Lotus+ scroll (or simply mox + scroll is OK). The thing is you're gaining tempo by sacrificing some cards which you probably wouldn't be able to play for a few rounds thus being dead in your hand until then.

Control wants to survive the first few rounds and will then focus on the mid/lategame. This card (like fow) helps you do that. Requisition is even better than fow in that it accelerates you to midgame (fow does not). When you reach midgame, your draw engine should defeat opponent regardless of how many cards you lost early game.

[Harlequin]

When you reach midgame, your draw engine should defeat opponent regardless of how many cards you lost early game.

I don't think thats nessisarily true.  Control can be killed by going into topdeck mode to early, and If you've already spent your bombs (AR, Lotus, Scroll) then you have little to hope for outside of will when your hitting the "Draw - go" Luck.

Drain
Requisition
Gifts
Ancestral
2x Land
Mox

Your opponent goes Fetch, Underground, Duress?  Now you Requisition back.

What happens if your opponent forces back... Or heck, they could be playing fish, what if they Daze back??

Drain--> Pitched
Requisition-->Spent (countered)
Gifts--> Pitched
Ancestral--> Duressed
2x Land
Mox

Now tell me... how do you plan on winning?

[Purple Hat]

If you don't have ancestral it might be tinker (+crypt) or Lotus+ scroll (or simply mox + scroll is OK). The thing is you're gaining tempo by sacrificing some cards which you probably wouldn't be able to play for a few rounds thus being dead in your hand until then.

if your opening hand is:
gifts
drain
requisition
scroll
mox
land x2

I guess I have 2 questions....#1 wouldn't basically any card be better in that hand than requisition?  if you have another draw spell then you're happy, if you have brainstorm you can save your best card from duress, if you have force you have a 2 counter hand.

#2 if your hand contains lotus instead of the mox as you suggest aren't you strictly better off removing your scroll from the game?

If I'm playing grim long or IT and I go turn one duress and my opponent requisitions it I'm pretty sure I throw a party...the ancestral play is bombish cus plays involving ancestral are bombish....it's kinda a good card...a better question would be if I got duressed would I rather end up holding "x, drain, gifts, mox, land, land" or "ancestral, mox, land, land" afterwards, and the thing is that "x, drain, gifts, mox, land, land" isnt' all that bad of a hand, if you fill in the cards you're likely to be replacing with requisition ie. mid strength draw/tutors or answer cards (scroll, mystical, TfK, tormond's Crypt, pithing needle, etc.) for x you're looking at a strong hand in a lot of cases but "ancestral, mox, land, land" is a hand that prays it turns over good cards with ancestral.  I generally try to avoid gamestates where I'm just hoping to draw something good.

[Conan_barberarn]

if your opening hand is:
gifts
drain
requisition
scroll
mox
land x2

I guess I have 2 questions....#1 wouldn't basically any card be better in that hand than requisition?  if you have another draw spell then you're happy, if you have brainstorm you can save your best card from duress, if you have force you have a 2 counter hand.

No card I could think of could be better than requisition in this hand. The scenario was "I'm on the draw" with the hand above so I cant Brainstorm in response to duress. If I have a force he'll just take it with duress and I cant counter him next turn cause I can't get UU fast enough. Only requisition lets me remove a threat from his hand which will hopefully be enough to keeping him from going off next turn.

#2 if your hand contains lotus instead of the mox as you suggest aren't you strictly better off removing your scroll from the game?

Depending on choice. I'd prefer drawing 3 fresh cards with one mana to spare (maybe brainstorm) to Gifting which isn't to great early on. I gift when I have fairly good control and want to win, 1st turn is often to early.

If I'm playing grim long or IT and I go turn one duress and my opponent requisitions it I'm pretty sure I throw a party...

What party? After playing land, duress you'll (the combo player) have 5 cards left in hand. If that duress turns against you, you'll probably loose your only bomb with which you were planning on winning next turn. If you have multiple bombs you're probably short on mana instead and getting duressed for a ritual will hurt a lot.

[Harlequin]

So your willing to bet the game on your opponent not haveing force or daze?

[Conan_barberarn]

So your willing to bet the game on your opponent not haveing force or daze?

In the scenario above, yes I'm willing to bet he doesn't have FoW and certainly not daze (the combination daze and duress isn't exactly common and there is absolutely no good comboplayer using daze). If I were playing combo and my first hand contained both FoW and duress + a bomb+ blue card to pitch+ mana to play the bomb next turn, then thats a really strong hand...

If I'm up against fish requisition is not good.
If I'm up against Oath requisition is not good, even tough it has its uses (steal mana or card draw could work).

If requisition gets countered I'm probably going to loose that game. I hope I don't have to repeat this last sentence again.

[netherspirit]

On a side note how much do you guys reckon this card will be selling for? I definitely have some use for it in my casual decks

[Purple Hat]

Quote
#2 if your hand contains lotus instead of the mox as you suggest aren't you strictly better off removing your scroll from the game?

Depending on choice. I'd prefer drawing 3 fresh cards with one mana to spare (maybe brainstorm) to Gifting which isn't to great early on. I gift when I have fairly good control and want to win, 1st turn is often to early.

uh...don't you keep the lotus and the drain?

Since he's duressing you, you can assume that he wants to force a biggie through next turn (or even this one). So you pitch drain and gifts and snag somthing from him, then you draw a card and play your ancestral.

No card I could think of could be better than requisition in this hand. The scenario was "I'm on the draw" with the hand above so I cant Brainstorm in response to duress. If I have a force he'll just take it with duress and I cant counter him next turn cause I can't get UU fast enough. Only requisition lets me remove a threat from his hand which will hopefully be enough to keeping him from going off next turn.

isn't the ancestral play made exponentially stronger by already having 3 blue cards in hand?  if your opponent takes your force and then you ancestral you now have drain, gifts, land, land ancestral, mox, you go draw card, ancestral, now you only need to find force, you don't need to find force +blue card....to me this also seems better.  Why are you assuming that a combo player playing out of a 7 card hand only has duress and 1 threat?  isn't his hand much more likely to be manax4 duress, threat, threat? ie. 1/4-1/3 of his hand composed of threats...this seems likely to me given that both grimlong and IT play between 15 and 20 threats.

What party? After playing land, duress you'll (the combo player) have 5 cards left in hand. If that duress turns against you, you'll probably loose your only bomb with which you were planning on winning next turn. If you have multiple bombs you're probably short on mana instead and getting duressed for a ritual will hurt a lot.

the party where you just told me that I need to goldfish a 4-5 rather than a 2-3 to win this game.....that party.

On a side note how much do you guys reckon this card will be selling for? I definitely have some use for it in my casual decks

about $3 or so, maybe less.  It's pretty much a crap rare.

[Conan_barberarn]

uh...don't you keep the lotus and the drain?

Keeping Lotus and Drain will render me with no ways of drawing new cards and I'll probably burn for the drain-mana which means this alternative sucks.

Since he's duressing you, you can assume that he wants to force a biggie through next turn (or even this one). So you pitch drain and gifts and snag something from him, then you draw a card and play your ancestral.

No card I could think of could be better than requisition in this hand. The scenario was "I'm on the draw" with the hand above so I cant Brainstorm in response to duress. If I have a force he'll just take it with duress and I cant counter him next turn cause I can't get UU fast enough. Only requisition lets me remove a threat from his hand which will hopefully be enough to keeping him from going off next turn.

isn't the ancestral play made exponentially stronger by already having 3 blue cards in hand?  if your opponent takes your force and then you ancestral you now have drain, gifts, land, land ancestral, mox, you go draw card, ancestral, now you only need to find force, you don't need to find force +blue card....to me this also seems better.  Why are you assuming that a combo player playing out of a 7 card hand only has duress and 1 threat?  isn't his hand much more likely to be manax4 duress, threat, threat? ie. 1/4-1/3 of his hand composed of threats...this seems likely to me given that both grimlong and IT play between 15 and 20 threats.

Your chances of finding another FoW isn't that great (after he's duressed one away), that's why FoW isn't adeadequate in this situation.

OK so say he has 2 threats, 4 mana and 1 duress (a well balanced hand). You'll be screwed with both Requi or FoW but atleast Requi gives you a chance. You can steal his biggest threat and maybe buy time enough to stop the second, maybe he needs all his 4 mana and if you take one he'll stall a turn during which you can get drain on line or whatever.

What party? After playing land, duress you'll (the combo player) have 5 cards left in hand. If that duress turns against you, you'll probably loose your only bomb with which you were planning on winning next turn. If you have multiple bombs you're probably short on mana instead and getting duressed for a ritual will hurt a lot.

the party where you just told me that I need to goldfish a 4-5 rather than a 2-3 to win this game.....that party.

Sarcasm: If you remove your FoW:s from your deck you don't even have to goldfish a 2-3 anymore. OK seriously, your chances of being able to interact with opponent increases if you pack both FoW and Requisition.

What I want to show with this scenario is: you must be able to handle a duress 1st turn without loosing your ability to disrupt the opponent, cause if you don't he'll win next turn. None of the plays you suggested gave you a descent chance here.

I'm giving you a list I've been goldfishing that uses Requisition and can play it reliably. It's nothing final but it's a good start:

4 Force of Will
4 Requisition
4 Mana Drain

4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Merchant Scroll
3 Gifts Ungiven
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Recoup
3 Thirst for Knowledge

1 Darksteel Colossus

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring

3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
6 Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy

EDIT: CHANGED MISDIRECTION FOR REQUISITION...

[LordHomerCat]

There are no requisitions in that decklist.  Also, you may want a second win, like Burning Wish.

[Purple Hat]

Quote from: Purple Hat on Today at 04:32:00 AM
uh...don't you keep the lotus and the drain?
Keeping Lotus and Drain will render me with no ways of drawing new cards and I'll probably burn for the drain-mana which means this alternative sucks.

keeping merchant scroll would mean you draw some cards and lose the game next turn meaning this alternative sucks.

I don't even know where to begin to critique your deck list....but as was noted before among some of it's other problems it also fails to play requisition.

[Khahan]

A little something seems to have been lost in the translation (up in post 1).  Is this: "remove 2 blue cards in your hand from the game," or is that a poorly translated, "discard 2 blue cards."

If its discard 2 cards, I think this has pretty significant value in any Yawg will deck.  If its 'remove from the game,'  I'm borderline on it and simply need to play test it and see it in action.  Does the con of losing 3 cards outweigh the pro of gaining a spell from your opponent?

[Draven]

A little something seems to have been lost in the translation (up in post 1). Is this: "remove 2 blue cards in your hand from the game," or is that a poorly translated, "discard 2 blue cards."

If its discard 2 cards, I think this has pretty significant value in any Yawg will deck. If its 'remove from the game,' I'm borderline on it and simply need to play test it and see it in action. Does the con of losing 3 cards outweigh the pro of gaining a spell from your opponent?

Although I don't speak Italian or whatever the card is printed in... I am quite confidant it is remove the cards verse discard. That block started the "pitch" cycle which all the pitch cards are remove from game.

[adrienger]

it's french and yeah, they are removed!

[freakish777]

There are no requisitions in that decklist. 

Obviously this is cut and paste from MWS and he has substituted 4 MisDs for the Requisitions.  Use a little intuition guys...

[Conan_barberarn]

Quote from: Purple Hat on Today at 04:32:00 AM
uh...don't you keep the lotus and the drain?
Keeping Lotus and Drain will render me with no ways of drawing new cards and I'll probably burn for the drain-mana which means this alternative sucks.

keeping merchant scroll would mean you draw some cards and lose the game next turn meaning this alternative sucks.

I don't even know where to begin to critique your deck list....but as was noted before among some of it's other problems it also fails to play requisition.

Eh? No I won't loose next turn since I turn his duress onto him instead. If he still is able to go off next turn even though he'll only have 4 cards left after I duress him then he obviously had a nutty hand.

This deck isn't UR-phid, I can't go on countering for ever, without superior card draw you will loose eventually which is why you should keep the merchant scroll and not the drain.

A second win is nice, but with the amount of protection this deck carries I feel I don't need it. Besides Burning wish usually only sits in your hand as a dead card in too much of the time.

@freakish777:
Thank you! Nice to see that there is someone with a little imagination in this forum!

[Purple Hat]

having 2 bombs in a 7 card hand isn't nutty....it's statistically likely....