top 4 Game Universe, WI: WITH TOG

[M.Solymossy]

Before The tournament:

Friday night, I had Tommy Kolowith [TK] and Tony Lyskawa [Tabasco] over to my place to playtest for the events.   They’re on ICBM, but they’ve been my friends (Tabasco’s been my best friend for 15ish years of my 20 year life) so I trusted them.  It took awhile, with them talking me out of playing Slaver, Gifts, IT, Grimlong, and even Meandeck Tendrils.    None of the decks had the type of bang I was going for.  So Saturday, after Again, TK and Tabasco are over, I decide to play tog.  I sleeve it up and play about 10 games against Gifts and 10 against stax.  I loved the deck, but dark confidants seemed like a great add.   After a couple more games, Tabasco and TK convince me that Tendrils would be a good fit in this deck.   I talked with Eric Becker on AIM for sometime before the event, and got some insight from him… he thought the deck seemed solid. 

I arrive at the tournament scene, and see that some of my old team is already here.  Great.  I have a vendetta to crush as many ICBMers as humanly possible.

NoVa Tog 2K6: AKA Flipping Forces to bob is Bad

4 Dark Confidant
1 Psychatog
1 Ancestral recall
4 Brainstorm
3 intuition
4 Accumulated knowledge
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Force of Will
2 Cunning wish
4 mana drain
4 duress
1 mystical tutor
1 time walk
1 yawgmoths will
1 mind twist
1 tendrils of agony
1 demonic tutor
1 vampiric tutor
1 black lotus
5 mox
3 island
1 library of Alexandria
3 underground sea
2 volcanic island
1 tolarian academy
4 polluted delta
1 flooded strand
SB:
1 gush
2 rack and ruin
3 REB
1 lava dart
1 rushing river
1 fire ice
1 coffin purge
1 tinker
1 DSKevin
2 goblin Bombardment
1 Pyroclasm



Myself, TK, and Tabasco sit down.  I sit with a local player named Andy, and TK and Tabasco sit down with the ICBM team of I@n DeGraff, Ben (The Gunslinga) and Dan Carp (Angry Pheldagrif) , Dave Carhart (ScutaKicker) , Blake Cxzyabc123 (Avatar’) , and Matt Ladwig (Hydra).   I buy sleeves and start sleeving up Tog.  I HAD placed Emisary of Despair In the main, but after talking with GWSers, Decided to cut it.   I start discussing some topics with rhino and and GWS guys and a few ICBMers before pairings.

The pairings come up, and I’m paired against Dave Carhart.  Sweet.   

Round1:
I go into this match excited because I get paired against ICBM Oath.  My matchup is ridiculous, I’m quite sure I don’t lose to oath with this deck.

I start on the play and he mulligans to 6.  I open with Delta underground sea  duress.  He fans nothing important.   I look at my hand, and I have double drain + force of will in my grip, and Intuition.  I start tearing apart his control elements.  I resolve a bob shortly and start flipping over cards.  I drain his oath, and then flip over a mind twist.  -1 seems kinda good when I’m turning guys sideways for 2 and I twist his hand away.  I get intuition EOT for AK’s, and cast one for 3 and one for 4 on my end step.  He scoops at 11 when I have 7 cards, a library, and two bobs in play. 

Game 2 starts out with him first turn dropping land, brainstorm, mox, chalice (0).  I open with delta go.  He duresses me, and I respond with Vampiric tutor.  I resolve a Goblin Bombardment.  The game ends a lot of turns later when I Tinker for Darksteel Colossus and Timewalk. 

I start talking with GWSers and ICBMers, and pairings come up.
 Great.  Gregg Seaverson…  This is gunna be a quick match, I think, as he’s playing U/B fish.   
I win the roll, and open with duress.  He fans Stifle X2, waste, island, duress X2, ninja.  I take the duress and pass turn.  He duresses me, but my hand is much more solid.  If I remember correctly he never gets in the match as I drain and force all his stuff.  He does get a ninja to stick, but I keep pressure on his hand with duress and forcing him to counter my stuff, and when he turns the ninja sideways, I take advantage and pull a Duress followed by a Tog + Timewalk.  I untap, draw, and play an irrelevant Intuition to pump the tog, but he scoops knowing that the tog was lethal. 
Game 2 I can’t really remember much.  I remember we are fighting over bobs for awhile.  He resolves a mox monkey and blocks one of my bobs, but I play another one, and a turn later he is forced to use his to block mine.  I then resolve tinker, and keep his business off it until it turns his 16 into negatives.

Nice.  Apparently, Ryan Seacrest (Gregg) doesn’t draw well versus me.  I’m not complaining.  “Seacrest out”, as he said.

So the manager of the store bought 10 pizza’s, so it’s Savage pizza time.

Round 3:  Jeremy Odell playing U/B phish
Jeremy Savaged me.  I really can’t even begin to describe it.  I pulled off one win with a VERY desperate tinker-DSK.  He wins game 3 when I commited suicide via Polluted Delta, just to save myself the disgrace of losing to Ravenous rats.   

Round 4:  win and draw time:  Matt Endress playing Oath
I know matt is playing oath, but I’m not sure what version.  I open with delta and pass turn.  He opens with City of Brass, duress.  I guess he’s running GWS Oath.  I fan a utterly ridiculous hand of delta, delta, drain, drain, force, cunning wish, intuition.  He takes the intuition, but I rip an AK.  I pass turn, and he does nothing if I remember correctly.  I cycle for 2, and draw Recall.  Now THAT’S business.  I draw for turn, and fetch a Usea and duress.  I see nothing relivant other than some weird ass card.  I’m not sure if it’s really a ‘’tech’’ card, so I won’t discuss it.  But he’s never really in game 1.  He even said “Man, I’m not even in this game. This isn’t even a game of magic”.    I get the AK turn going, and when he searches my deck for will, he finds it in my hand.  He scoops before I can do the Vamp for tog, time walk, will thing. 
Game 2 I can’t remember openings.  I tinker 2nd or 3rd turn for the big man, but he tinkers for his own.  The game ends when he outcontrols me and resolves an oath.  He then bounces my colossus, and goes the distance.   
Game 3 was another ridiculous game.  I remember I cast AK for 4, Will, AK for 4, recall for 3, Ak for 3,  and then brainstormed off a Will, and killed him with I want to say colossus?

Round 5:  Ben Carp: ICBM Oath
ID


Top 8:  Dave Carhart with ICBM Oath. Again.
Game 1 he mulligans to 6 and after a LONG time of baiting his counters out.  I decide to go for it, and play something.  He forces.  I allow it, and play Dark Confidant.  He drains it.  So I decide that it’s decent, and demonic tutor for will, cast will, cast an AK for 4, cast Ancestral for 3, cast jet, cast sapphire, drop a land, demonic tutor, tendrils of agony, and play it with my lotus.

Game 2 again is slow, but I drop a Goblin Bombardment and draw a bunch of cards.  The game is at a close when I cast will early and get 6 cards.  I outcontrol him, and then go forr the time walk + tog play when he has oath on board, but I overextend and his ONE unknown card is drain.   So we go drawgo for awhile, and I finally drew mystical.  He plays duress, and I respond with mystical which gets Rushing River.   He takes something irrelevant.  I untap (I have 10 mana).  I brainstorm in response to something he does, and put DSk on top.   I end step rushing river oath, and he responds with braisnstorm. I  drain the brainstorm, and the game ends a couple turns later because I was able to HARDCAST colossus.


Jeremy Odell AGAIN

Game 1 he plays AND uses 4 wastelands by turn 6. I lose.  Simply put.  Ravenous rats and hymn to tourache goes the distance.

Game 2 he plays AND uses 3 wastelands by turn 6.  I lose.  Again.   He HAD a 4th wasteland which he didn’t have to use. 

I was sloppy here. If I had mulliganed for a more solid manabase, I would have had a chance.  But I kept gassy hands, and paid the price for them.

Overall, the tournament was REALLY fun. I loved playing this deck.  The pure amount of control in the deck is just unbelievable.


Props:
Ed, Rhyno, and Alan.  The event was well run, and Pizza rocks.
Eric Becker for IMing me at like 9 yesterday to say he will be there.
Matt Morrison for completely tapping Ben Carp that one game.  It was HILARIOUS when you stifled blessing when he hadONE card in GY.
TK for being as sweet as he is.
Tabasco. You Rock.
Tog for being a beatstick
Oath for being 3 of my 4 wins.

Slops:
RThomas for not showing up
Game Universe for messing up AJFirst’s registration and then not letting him play.
Me, for wearing pink

I apologize if I actually mess ANYTHING up with this report, as I didn’t take any notes.

[AJFirst]

That's alright, I ate their pizza and stole a pen. Doubt they'll be messing with me anytime soon...

I like your deck. It's almost as janky as...well...the rest of them. Whatev, I'll just stomp next time. Well played my friend.
-AJ

P.S. We had to leave early so we didn't get to play the CS mirrror. Bring it next time and we shall do battle on the magical planes!

[zeus-online]

How come you dont run tinker/DSC main? I've found tinker/DSC to be amazing in the deck, and tendril's to be kinda janky and not needed at all!
And psychatog is pretty much like Tinker/DSC except that it kills in 1 turn instead of two!

/Zeus

[without]

Congradulations SOLY!!!    Nice job on reaching the top 4 with (Anti-Oath) Psychatog

It was great seeing you happy all day.  I just have a small question..did that one Psychatog always show up in your games?

It sucks that you had to play Jeremy twice, (Solydies.dec) LOL  but you beatdown the same oath deck twice, hence Dave.
As far as Ryan Thomas not showing up, I talked with him on Thursday and he said he couldn't make it due to vacation plans.

off topic--> IMO Yawgmoth's Will should be banned! haha vintage would totally change.

@zeus
DSC is very good at rising to the top of your deck when you have a bob in play and that really sucks, plus the deck is modified to win with tendrils due to the stupid Y-Will.

[M.Solymossy]

Dude, every game except against Jeremy Odell I drew infy cards.  I got the AK engine going (SO UNDERRATED) and literally drew 7 cards + EVERY time.  And yes, that ONE tog did show up a whole bunch.  Tinker-DSC isn't in the main because it SUCKS to flip it to bob, and i did FOUR TIMES in testing.   It hurts.  I wish i didn't need it in the board even, honestly.  And the tendrils is a threat that doesn't use the combat step to kill, and even without ring, crypt, vault, or petal, or rituals, i find that it is GREAT to use when you're in a fow/drain war with someone.  Ask poor ol' dave.

so without.  Who are you?

[sixth]

Hi, I got some questions concerning your decklist:

You only run 21 mana sources - did you test the amount of mana sources in this deck? Or is the low mana-count justified by the massive load of draw? I know that a resolved confidant fixes mana problems easily, but to get the Intu/AK-Engine rolling, you need to have some mana right from the beginning, or to rely on Drain-Mana entirely.

You're also running 14 black maindeck cards (including Tog). Did you ever consider cutting one Uground in favor of a maindeck swamp, like Dark Gifts? I know that this is controversial, due to Mana Drains UU requirement - but playing Duress Turn 1 is quite a bad play, if your opponent (staxx, oath, fish) just wastes one of your (few) lands.. in that case, you won't have mana drain online by turn 2 anyway.

So why do you prefer lava dart over darkblast in the board? Dredge has a lot of synergie with tog, and i think you can rather spend a draw in this deck than a land to replay your removal.

You also don't run Fling in the Sideboard. Fling can really speed up your kill with tog, if you have a Cunning Wish available.. but Gush does as well. Is that due to the Fact that you only run two wishes ?

What about maindeck Merchant Scroll ? You can tutor up Ancenstral, Ak # 4 or Cunning Wish, if needed. Another potent draw spell that didn't make the cut is FoF, obviously. Any insights?

Sorry for that many questions, I'm just interested in this deck ..

[RThomas]

I wish I had something productive to say here, but I don't.  Perhaps some decade, someone will include me in their props section.  Of course, I have to actually attend a tournament first.

Congratulations on the finish.

[zeus-online]

*Avoids the combat step* is rather irrelevant where i live, currently...while "Sucks if your opponent have Tormod's crypt" is pretty relevant might be why i dont like it!

Oh, you're unlucky with confidant aswell? I always seem to flip up the most expensive cards in whatever deck i play it in!

/Zeus

[M.Solymossy]

You only run 21 mana sources - did you test the amount of mana sources in this deck? Or is the low mana-count justified by the massive load of draw? I know that a resolved confidant fixes mana problems easily, but to get the Intu/AK-Engine rolling, you need to have some mana right from the beginning, or to rely on Drain-Mana entirely.

The mana base really did blow.  I never had issues until playing Jeremy Wasteland King Odell.  He wasted 4 lands by 6th turn in our semi's match.  The land base will most likely be upped.

Did you ever consider cutting one Uground in favor of a maindeck swamp?

  I was thinking of cutting Library of TRASH actually for the swamp.

So why do you prefer lava dart over darkblast in the board?

I considered Darkblast, but was afraid of dredging my win conditions away.  Currently, my list has the DB

You also don't run Fling?

  I didn't have any super tech in my deck like the italians, because I didn't need it.   Bobs did enough damage where if a tog was going to swing in, it would be lethal.  I also had the tendrils plan, which worked great for ending the counter wars.

What about maindeck Merchant Scroll ? You can tutor up Ancenstral, Ak # 4 or Cunning Wish, if needed. Another potent draw spell that didn't make the cut is FoF, obviously. Any insights?

When I originally put tog togehter without the bobs, merchant scroll was in the list, but it does SO much but yet SO little at the same time.  You leave yourself completely unprotected, and for the most part what you get isn't worth the extra 1U at socery speed.  Even with ancestral, you pay 1U, and a card, to get a card, then you pay U and a card to get 3.  that's -3 cards for +3 cards, AND three mana.   The intuition/AK engine surely costs much more, but all of the engine is at instant speed, and the 4th AK is golden.

[without]

Yo, Soly....I'm Derek.

Anyways, any deck with 4 Dark Confident rulz! 
How exactly do you draw 7 cards off an AK? there are 3 in your yard and one is casted...that is a draw 4 (like in uno).  I should have stayed there to sadly see fish take first.

Respect those who play with pink sleeves 

[M.Solymossy]

AK for 3 followed by AK for 4

i had one turn where I AKed for 3 , for 4, Recalled, cast will, and Aked for 4 and recalled again.

17 cards.
total mana:  5UUUUUB

[sixth]

Even with ancestral, you pay 1U, and a card, to get a card, then you pay U and a card to get 3.  that's -3 cards for +3 cards, AND three mana.

Merchant Scroll just replaces itself with Ancestral or AK #4 without loosing a card. If you'd mystical or vamp for any of those, then you would end up with card disadvantage. So Merchant Scroll acts like a Demonic Tutor for blue instants. "-3 cards for +3 cards" isn't correct, since this would mean that there wouldn't be any card advantage at all. It's actually UU1 and one card (Ancestral itself) to get three new. Advantage of two cards, just like Intu/AK.

You leave yourself completely unprotected, ..

If you cast Scroll instead of leaving UU open (what you shouldn't do), that's true. But just like in Gift decks, Scroll can really protect you on Turn 1. Imagine a hand without Duress or Mox Sapphire / Lotus to get UU on Turn 1. Scrolling for Force ensures that you are well protected until you have Mana Drain online.


But unlike in Gifts, Merchant's application range is rather limited (Draw / Force only), so that's a good point. Maybe one Merchant Scroll would be justified to maximize the chance of finding that "golden" Ak # 4 after resolving the AK #3


Concerning Fling, you're right. It isn't needed with Bobs & Tendrils.

I can only encourage you to run that maindeck swamp. It dodges wasteland whenever you cast one of your FOUR "librarys with legs" (Confs), what makes it superior to the very situational and wasteable Library of TRASH

[M.Solymossy]

In testing, when eiither playing an unknown deck, or a deck with wastelands, the common play was delta-swamp Duress, to follow up with second turn island into a bob.  With  a Usea, they can waste that land.  Besides, I have a couple Euro swamps, why not play them?

[tehmajickguy]

How has your SS matchup been? I know you said that you were adding more mana sources to the deck, but even then it seems like it could be a potentially bad match up with all of their mana denial.

[M.Solymossy]

Honestly, the matchup preboard is bad, unless you know EXACTLY how to fight the deck.

I have kinda an advantage since TK is my testing partner, and I used to be on ICBM, so I knew most of the decks' weeknesses.  With that said, Reb is amazing.    but if I cut red, my matchup in particular with SS gets much worse.

[Wildthing]

Congratulations for your performance. I found your deck interesting but after playing tog for quite a long time I would like to ask you some questions:

1)Why are you not playing 1 bounce maindeck?, 2 cunning wishes seem to be a not very fast answer to opponents tinkers, chain of vapor would also help in the storm count
2)I am missing mana crypt in your build, was it too much damage with bobs?
3)I think tolarian is maybe out of place with only 5 mox+lotus, if I am not running solring and crypt I will no play it
4)Have you consider darkblast main against bobs, welders and fish?
5)I like bobs but not as a maindeck solution, I think merchats are just more versatile (maybe in a more tog oriented version like Joshua Frankelin at gen con) and better stopping fast combo

-What are your worse matchups? I think that the new dragon is a pain in the ass. How is the deck doing against stax?

[M.Solymossy]

I went to the tournament downright knowing I'd lose to Dragon and/or ichorid (hense, no tormods crypt)

I didn't play mana crypt because the deck functions without artifacts quite nicely (i designed it this way due to the high number of chalices).

I considered both bounce and darkblast main, but couldn't fit it before... but I'm working on a new list.

[Sean Ryan]

What do you think about going more combo/control - Drain TPS style? Similiar to this successful bulid:
http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=17580

I've been playing around with the concept off and on for awhile.  There are really quite a few directions you can take this if you want.  Recently, I've been trying out Rituals and Necro/Bargain in the Tog shell.  It has some game but, probably not enough.

Anyway, what do you think about these changes to the list you posted:

-4 Bob
-2 Duress???
-2 C. Wish
-1 Tog
-1 Twist
-1 EE
-1 LOA

+2 Tinker/DSC
+2 Bounce (Rebuild/Chain)
+1 Darkblast
+1 M.Scroll
+3 Artifacts(Ring/Crypt/Vault)
+1 Swamp
+1 Bargain
+1 Giftz/Fact???
(maybe Recoup as well)

Red might not be worth it here now that I think of it.

I'm not sure whether this would be better, but it's something I've been playing around with.  I"ve also considered going with a 3/3 configuration of Mana Drain and Duress.  I've always ran 4 Drains but this concept leans more toward combo and often I want the Duress to go offensive, while the Drains make you sit back and play more controlish.  I noticed one of the T1T lists did this at Rochester as well.

Do you ever find that having two draw engines is excessive?  Is it necessary to run both Bobs and Intuition/AK?  Have you tried out builds without Intuition/AK? or vis a versa?

I tried to make Bob work in Giftz but, Tinker/DSC became a huge liability, and if you don't run Tinker Giftz gets much weaker.  I saw the 2nd place list for Rochester day 2 and it seems kinda janky to me but whatever he got results.

Tell me what you think.

Thanks
Sean

P.S.

I just remembered a an old thread that while outdated, may be interesting:
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=26816.0