Oath Questions...

[twault]

I have been experimenting with Extract maindeck in Oath for about a month. After looking at some of the tournament reports, it seems that others have been running up to 3 in the sideboard for a while.

For those of you that use it, do you feel it is worthy of being maindecked? In my experience, it depends on the metagame. My problem is that I don't feel that a single copy of Extract is very effective, because most decks have too many threats.

I have tried to run 3, but I had problems cutting other cards that were too useful. I'm thinking that my best plan might be using 1 maindeck, and using Cunning Wish to grab another, if needed. Then, I can side in a second or third copy if the 2nd game warrants it.

What is your experience with Extract in Oath?

Opinions?

Plus:

Null Rod or Pithing Needle

I can't decide which to use.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

[TurbulentDirge]

First of all, you cannot grab Extract with Cunning Wish. If you could, it would likely be run in more decks and be significantly better; extract at EoT would be quite good. However, as it is a sorcery, it is not nearly as good.

Secondly, Extract has limited impact against some decks. Yes, it does harm other decks (resolving Extract against Oath can significantly improve your chances in that matchup), but most decks shrug it off completely.

While I think that Pithing Needle could be maindecked, or Stifle for that matter, Extract just does not have the range of those cards. I have tested it in oath myself, with mixed results. Against oath, removing Sky Swallower or even Gaea's Blessing would essentially hold the game. But against Stax, it was a wasted three cards in Game 1.

As to your other question, I think that Needle is better because it can deal with a wider range of threats. Rod gets rid of a set plane of threats all at once, but does not even touch others: Bazaar, Welder, Shaman, etc.
However, Gifts and Grim Long are relatively protected against needle, whereas a resolved rod could cause some problems. That being said, it is your choice. I personally would use Needle.

-DL

[Moxlotus]

Maindeck it does nothing against aggro control, control, or Shops.  Why would you want to run such a situational card maindeck?

[FlamingCloud]

I had an oath question, I am planning on playing in a non-proxy tournament in a few weeks(with icbm oath list) and doubt I can get a hold of recall or timewalk.  I was thinking of replacing them with imperial seal & stifle (stifle due to being cheap and not wanting to lower my blue count by two to play the 4th duress) but I am not sure. 

What do you guys think I should play in the walk/recall slots?

I have

imperial seal
daze
misdirection
stifle
duress
tinker/collossus
deep analsysis
tormod's crpyt
impulse
sensei's divining top
gifts
fact or fiction
ground seal

as options.. Maybe some more stuff too (don't have any intuitions, cunning wishes, pithing needles, or seedtimes however to name a few things that are probably not options)

Other things to keep in mind are me not having lotus or jet in the deck(currently replaced with petal/5th fetch but that could change).

[twault]

Sorry, I meant Burning Wish.

I run Burning & Cunning Wish Maindeck, so I can get whatever I need. I guess I forgot which one was which...

Moxlotus, that's exactly what I'm finding. It's useless against some decks, good in some, and great in a few.

In the Oath mirror, it can be really amazing. If you topdeck or tutor for Extract and then use Cunning Wish to grab another, you can possibly remove both creatures from the game, leaving them without a win condition. At the very least, you can decide which creature you want to deal with, if Extract resolves. Obviously, you hope for the "God" hand (Mox, Oath, Orchard, Force, Blue Card) and try to race your opponent on getting Orchard, but this serves as a nice back-up. There's probably a more consistent back-up plan, but like I said, I'm experimenting.

Some Tendrils-based decks only run 1 copy of Tendrils main. Removing it can be really devastating.

It can be good against Gifts, but only if you resolve it. I know that sounds cheesy, but it seems like Gifts players always have a FOW (maybe it's just me?). Some builds rely solely on Tinker>Darksteel, while others use a Tendrils or Belcher backup. I generally go for the big guy and save FOWs for their attempts to use a different win condition.

Aggro decks make Extract pretty useless. However, I don't usually have any trouble getting an Oath to resolve and activate. It's just trying to get beats that are bigger and faster than my opponent.  

Ichorid is another deck that makes Extract pretty useless.

Stax...Argh! there's just nothing you could remove that is going to help you. Wasted spot.

I mean, it's not some broken card that auto-wins games, but it can definitely cripple decks with delicate win conditions, and slow others while you assemble your combo.

I guess that my original train of thought was "would adding more copies maindeck make it more effective." The answer is a resounding "NO!" I don't mind keeping the one maindecked, because of the metagame in my area, but I think if I actually went to a big tournament that I'd have to restrict it to a sideboard slot.

As far as the Needle vs Null Rod debate, I'm leaning towards Needle.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Extract is terrible unless your meta is super-heavy GrimLong/Gifts.  I would recommend against it in either the maindeck OR the sideboard.  It does nothing versus so many decks, and even when it does something it's usually not enough. I would run Jester's Cap in Oath before I would run Extract.

[twault]

I thought about Jester's Cap, but it's really not worth it in my build. I don't run Tinker, and I don't think it's worth hardcasting it.

After testing this ENTIRE weekend, I took Extract out of my maindeck, but I will regulate at least one copy to the sideboard, possibly 2. I also decided that Needle was better than Null Rod in my build.

I'm not sure what I'm going to use to replace Extract. I was thinking of cutting a Misdirection (leaving me with 1 MD) and adding 2 Sensei's Divining Top.

I've never been a big fan of Stifle, but it seems that more and more people are using it lately. I'm thinking about adding it to my sideboard.

[LessThanRight]

@stifle

In today's metagame, Tendrils is everywhere.  Dragon is making a come back too.  Don't rule out Stifle.

[chrissss]

I havent tested out extract yet, but stifle is such a diverse card. I even had 3 in my deck for a while, It stops combo, it stops tendrils, dragon, and so many other deck types. destroying my opponents fetch lands, etc.
plus it pitches to Fow.

I havent tested oath in mirror, so cant say about extract. I will do it now.