EMERGENCY - Please Help Me... Cards Stolen Today

[Changster]

Hey guys,

I want to thank you all once more for helping me get through this rough time through your kind words of support and concern.  The criticism I receive for leaving my cards under the care of someone else for a minute/two, then completely losing them, is something I expected.  I'm not claiming innocence from the crappy situation, I simply asked for help and so many of you overwhelmed me with it.  That, I am grateful for. 

At this time, less than a week before GenCon, I have come to terms that I do need to ask you all for a favor.  I take responsibility for the loss of Jacob and my cards, but it's mostly his cards that I am most distraught about.  I will swallow and take the loss of my own cards, but I would like to fully replace Jacob's cards.  My own collection/decks can wait for now.  To me, it is important that I focus my efforts on replacing Jacob's cards, because I violated his trust in losing his cards.  If anyone would like to send donations or cards to help me fix this, I will graciously accept your offers.  At the upcoming GenCon, I will put those cards towards purchasing replacement cards for Jacob, starting with his lost P9.  I have yet to discuss the specific amount in cards/cash Jacob would like from me, but your help will ease my financial burden greatly.

The investigation is still ongoing, but each day that passes makes it harder to find them and the chances are slimmer.  I appreciate all of the the encouraging words from everyone in this community and I hope to rebound from this as soon as possible and eventually give back as much as I can.   Please feel free to come up to me at GenCon if you're going.  I want to meet each and every one of you who have helped me cope with my loss.  Thank you in advance for being there for me in my time of need.  I only hope to repay you all one day for your time and generosity.

Sincerely,

Roland Chang

[brianpk80]

FWIW, I had a deck stolen several years ago that contained several valuable cards, including a Beta Emerald, 4 Mana Drains, Sapphire, Ancestral, Beta Lotus, Library, and Twister.  My friends and I had a definite suspect and we found a Usenet post from his account with a "Beta Lotus for sale," grilled him, reported the incident to the police, and within a week my deck returned to me in the mail with a convenient anonymous note saying that it had been "accidentally" misplaced in the sender's bookbag (of course, we strongly believe this was theft followed by remorse/fear).  I was real lucky, but I am writing this to show that there is always a glimmer of hope that with enough pressure and focus, situations like these occasionally resolve themselves favorably. 

I'm sorry for your loss.

-Brian

 

[b-tings]

I would like to add my sympathies and best wishes to the chorus of the rest of the vintage community. When I was starting out in this game several years ago, I had a trade binder stolen that amounted to nowhere near what you've lost, and I remember what a blow it was to my countenance. The way you are handling this, Roland, is an enormous credit to a character that the TMD community has already attested to. While my collection had been more or less reduced to draft scraps and a single in-progress deck, if there is anything outside of material contributions I can do to help (I will, of course, be keeping an eye out for any suspicious dealings or cards matching your descriptions), please let me know.

[Blake-]

Roland I would just like to say that I am sorry to hear your cards were stolen, I met you once at the South MIlwaukee $400 tournement you seem like a very respectable guy.  I do not have any cards to help you out in that way but but I wish you the best in finding your stolen cards.

[Jacob Orlove]

Random though #3

Has anyone told Jacob, who's now on a cross-country road trip, about this terrible incident yet?

Yeah, Roland called me pretty much right away, so I've been using my brief online moments to keep up to date on this. I'm back home now, though, so I can finally thank everyone for the incredible support they've offered, especially to Roland, who lost far more than I did. Any financial assistance should be directed to him.

Edit: also, two other things.

1) I had asked that someone post this while I was away, but apparently no one did: I'm matching Roland's reward offer, $1000, no questions asked, for the return of the cards. I'm even prepared to extend it to anyone who turns in the thief or otherwise takes action that leads directly to the cards recovery.

2) since there are so many unique/special cards that were lost, I'm prepared to offer most/all of that reward for just those cards. Obviously, I'd rather Roland get everything back, but getting back only those cards that are difficult to sell because of their identifying characteristics (eg, my ancestral, roland's jet, etc.) is far better than nothing.

[bel_riose]

All the Italian Vintage Community is now aware of this horrible thing.

We'll watch over the Internet and in the selling lists for cards like the ones of Jacob and Roland.

Stealing cards to a player is the most disgusting and vile action another player can do. We hope Roland and Jacob con find the strength to pass through this day.

All Italian Vintage players are with you.


The Staff of TheAbyss.biz and the Italian Vintage Community

[BigMac]

If this guy is serious about "finding" the cards he truely is a miscreant.

Could be a solid lead but could also be somebody trying to get attention. either way, is sick or really dumb.

[PaRtIzAn]

hi, i'm a new member here but i'm rather well known on MOTL and thAbyss community (and the one who gave the beta p9 who should arrive at gencon for jacob orlove, as i was told)

i can guess how roland feels atm, i had a similar loss last november... 13.500 euro of stuff stolen... that's why i know the best thing he would hear is a good new, or at least a new...

i found this
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=41298

dunno if someone reported this, but i think it's worth a shot

good luck

[BigMac]

I posted to somebody posting that exact same link. I am sure to save that somewhere as those posts have been deleted.

[Illissius]

There's one problem: That thread was posted on May 27th (although it was edited yesterday... hmm). The cards were stolen on July 31st.
Edit - Never mind. Didn't notice it was a card by card copy; in that case it must have been edited in after this thread.

[Bram]

The list in that link is an exact c/p from this thread, word by word.

So either that guy is fucking around, which is both a nasty thing to do, and probably against MTGsalvation policy since in that case he doesn't have the cards, OR he actually DOES have them, in which case he's either a thief or a fence AND he's reading this thread. Either way, this should probably be cleared up.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=47021

Apparently, he posted the news there in the first place...

[BigMac]

It seems an exact copy of the list Roland posted here earlier in the thread, so either the thief has taken a short cut to copy the list or it is somebody trying to make money of this allready loathsome happening.

Either way this is a bad news person.

[NULLROD]

I've donated a mox pearl unlimited, 4x beta sinkholes mint, set of FOW's mint, set of bstorms signed, and a japanese yawg will to Roland. Everyone else please help out as much as possible.

[Caboose]

Hi, I am MD from MTGS. Anyone who knows me there knows that I have a terrible sense of humor. I do not have Roland's cards, nor do I know where they might be. In fact, if you click the spoiler at the bottom, it reveals what the thread is truly about. I thought it was pretty obvious that it was just a joke. And yes, I know that it is wrong to make light of Roland's situation. Let me remind you that I was the first to raise awareness on MTGS about it. I know it is a serious matter, but I didn't think that Roland would see it. I just wanted to get a few cheap laughs out of my friends.

I sincerely hope Roland finds his stuff, and I am very sorry he got his hopes up. I will be going to MTGS next to change the thread back to the way it used to be. I hold Roland in the highest regard as a magic player, and I am ashamed of my actions. Some jokes work, some don't. I am just sorry this got so big in only a couple hours.

Roland, I will try and make this up to you any way I can. I will loan you cards for GenCon if you need any, or I'll take you out to lunch or something.

Once again, Roland, Orlove, and the entire Vintage community has my most sincerest apologies.

- Kyle

[BigMac]

I sincerely hope Roland finds his stuff, and I am very sorry he got his hopes up. I will be going to MTGS next to change the thread back to the way it used to be. I hold Roland in the highest regard as a magic player, and I am ashamed of my actions. Some jokes work, some don't. I am just sorry this got so big in only a couple hours.

It shows how much the community is watching everything and maybe this will show the thief that the net is closing around him. That leaves him with two choices. Trying to sell the cards and get caught doing that or turn in the cards and perhaps recieve somekind of goodwill token for giving the cards back. That was what Roland and i think jacob as well would rather want. They just want their cards back and get it over with. So, thief, if you are reading these boards, be sure you will get caught eventually otherwise. Safe Roland and Jacob a lot of time and return the cards.

[Caboose]

It shows how much the community is watching everything and maybe this will show the thief that the net is closing around him.

Exactly, I never thought anyone would see it besides the people I linked to it. If you took the cards, good luck putting them anywhere on the net, as the community will find it immediately. Not only is turning the cards in better for the thief, but it would just be a good thing to do for Roland. Waking up to his IM's gave me the most terrible feeling to see his pain, and I didn't even take his cards. I can only imagine what the thief is feeling if they see any of these threads.

Once again, I hope the community realizes I missed on my joke and was man enough to come admit it. I am still on the lookout for his stuff, and will be taking the list to GenCon to hopefully nail the guy trying to unload them in the TCG hall.

[Changster]

@ Caboose - Apology accepted and I hope it doesn't happen again under any circumstances.  Thank you for clearing that up immediately after I talked to you online. 

With the tournament Ray Robillard held yesterday, I think Jacob and I will be able to recover some of our losses with the generous donations.  I appreciate everything this community stands for and the support from every member.  You guys are seriously the best!

-Roland   

[adamsand267]

i have been watching this post with great interest from day one and a cople thinks just floor me
1.i find it amazing that people feel sorry for this guy for loseing his and a play partners cards.....i mean come on...some lessons are harder than others but we do have to learn sometimes.
2.if he was some scrub no one and i mean NO ONE would give a crap less about his loss....but because hes the vintage champ WE should rally around him and donate to his cause(were were you when someone stole MY collection?)oh thats right im just a scrub.
3.has anyone thought about craiglist?i buy and sell a ton of stuff on there and can stay fairly (anonomse  SP).just a thought.
4.let me state this:I DO HOPE YOU GET YOUR CARDS BACK....BU AT THIS POINT DO YOU(OR ANYONE) THINK THIS WILL HAPPEN???
sorry   just had to get that off my chest.i quit playin 8 years ago when my stuff got stole from me(and yes it was alot of stuff)wont go into it but lets just say that it was well over what was lost here.did i get it back NO...did i try....yup....
good luck in your search
adamsand267

[iamfishman]

i have been watching this post with great interest from day one and a cople thinks just floor me
1.i find it amazing that people feel sorry for this guy for loseing his and a play partners cards.....i mean come on...some lessons are harder than others but we do have to learn sometimes.
2.if he was some scrub no one and i mean NO ONE would give a crap less about his loss....but because hes the vintage champ WE should rally around him and donate to his cause(were were you when someone stole MY collection?)oh thats right im just a scrub.
3.has anyone thought about craiglist?i buy and sell a ton of stuff on there and can stay fairly (anonomse  SP).just a thought.
4.let me state this:I DO HOPE YOU GET YOUR CARDS BACK....BU AT THIS POINT DO YOU(OR ANYONE) THINK THIS WILL HAPPEN???
sorry   just had to get that off my chest.i quit playin 8 years ago when my stuff got stole from me(and yes it was alot of stuff)wont go into it but lets just say that it was well over what was lost here.did i get it back NO...did i try....yup....
good luck in your search
adamsand267

I understand the point you are trying to make here.  But it is completely irrelevant.  Why? Because the situtation is different.  Let me explain.

If someone tomorrow died of the common cold, would it be a big deal...Yes.  What about if someone died from catching cold 100 years ago...No.

You seem to be implying:
1.) Since you, possibly playing a different format, with a different community of people(nothing like the type 1 community), lost cards, probabbly in a less saddening situation than Roland, almost a complete decade ago, and you obviously still hold a grudge about it, we should not feel sorry for Roland.
2.) That because you are a self-appointed Noob, and have not found magic players who care to help you in a time of need(which I'm sure has correlation with your sparkling personality), you just assume that no other "scrub" every receives the time of day when they lose cards.  How about you do your research and ask the many "unknown" magic players that lost decks at Waterbury that I have helped out by donating some stuff.

I'm sorry if I sound steamed, but it is no surprise that you can't understand the actions of this community, because it sounds like you are a very pestimistic person.  Perhaps after I get back from Gencon, I'll send you some extra cards...will that heal the wound?

We don't need such negativity added onto the issue at hand here.  I guess my mom said it best:

"If you don't have something positive to say, don't say anything at all."

[adamsand267]

this will be my last post on here just due to the response i got from the guy above.
you know it was all type 1 cards and yes it was a type one tourney(yup before it was called "vintage")
and yes your mom was right.....think about it yourself.
what was stolen:1 ea a/b/u/ power, duals,2 playtsets drains,2 playsets fow,plus my loaded stax deck,plus my fully loaded English breakfast,plus my keeper deck.so you figure it out.....makes what was lost at ng kinda pale in comparison.
and as i stated before:seeings how I'm not a type one champ at the time no one really noticed....which was cool with me...just trying to figure why anyone would want to help this guy out....
so like i said in my last post i do hope he gets his stuff back.....but seeing how we are a week out from when this happened.....i will keep my fingers crossed for him and my eyes open on craiglist and Eba........
good luck in you quest....
tom

[M.Solymossy]

you quit eight years ago... when Shops were 30 and drains were 10.  and power was 100 ea.  And you're right.  We don't care, because
1) we don't know you
and
2) you're a douche.

I feel INSULTED that you're so negative towards roland. I have nothing but respect for roland, ever since I met him in 2004.  To this day, he's been my most enjoyable match.  And I met JOr<3 in Richmond, and he too, is one of the nicest people I've met.
The three nicest people I met playing magic are Rich Shay, Roland Chang, and Jacob Orlove.  So yes, I CARE and I WILL Donate.  They didn't deserve it.

[BigMac]

Adamsand,

I do not know you and i do care for your loss. To explain why the whole community is distraught by this is of who those two persons are. They have been important with the building of the current community. And yes, it is more probable that well known people get more help with a loss. However, this community has evolved to the point that i think every noob losing this many cards would receive the same support and help to find them. Especially when the cards are so well marked as the ones stolen now.

I do not know roland yet have been busy scanning the net for them cards. I go with the overall oppinion of the community that he deserves our help. If somebody has so many supporters, that is not just for anything.
I do know Jacob as he has been to my country and we all met with him. But even if I had not met him i would be trying to help as he is donating so much of his time and effort to this community, he deserves our help.

So that is that. If you had lost your cards now it would be regarded the same i reckon. The community has changed a lot over the last eight years, and for the better i believe.

[orgcandman]

Actually, I'm going to partly agree with adamsand here. I remember a while ago, I had a similar situation come up: Someone stole $300 from me.

When the subject of donating money back to me to pay for my loss came up, Jacob offered the following quote:

If anyone wants to martyr themselves and break the cycle, why dont you just buy the fake off him for what he paid for it and destroy it yourself? You would get my vote for the nicest human alive, and you would resolve the issue, and you would definitely break the cycle. No takers? I am not surprised.

I don't want to sound harsh here, but any american who can afford power can generally afford to lose $300. It's massively unpleasant, but nowhere near the end of the world. If someone is going to give away $300, there are far better charitable causes than Aaron's friend, even though he is no doubt a good person.

And if you're about to ask why I don't rip people off in order to get more money for charity, it's because it's wrong not only to defraud people, but also to try to make that kind of decision (where their money should go) for them. They could even be buying the power so that they can run a charity tournament.

While I'm not saying this is exactly the same situation, it's similar enough where I'm going to say that Adamsand is correct in that if the member of the community who lost power isn't a prominently recognized community, mostly people would just say "oh, that sucks man."

He also wasn't being a jerk towards Roland. He, in fact, told Roland a good place to search, and said he hoped Roland found the cards that were lost.

I'm going to stand behind Adamsand, not because I want to go against the grain but because he's got a very good point: What if Roland were a noname?

Again, I'd gladly let Roland or Jacob, or anyone for that matter borrow cards at tournaments. However, I don't think I'd donate to this because it's not my job to fix their problems, just like it's not their job to fix mine.

And for those who will say its not the same situation, it basically is:
I wasn't paying attention, and someone walked away with $300 of my money.

Yay for fundamental irrationalities in human behavior!

[NULLROD]

As far as Jacob being one of the nicest guys on TMD, I'm not really sure where that's coming from. 2 years ago, when I started becoming really serious about T1, I remember IM'ing jacob after he won the SCG with meandeck oath. He simply blocked me on AIM, and refused to have any contact with me at all. I can't really relate to jacob, but if he has such a strange attitude towards people especially from TMD, that's really terrible, and says something about his personality.

I was a bit pissed when I learned that the cards I had given to Roland were not going to be used by him, but instead, were going to be used by Jacob, but whatever. That's Chang's call. Chang is a nice guy, but I can't say that I can say the same about Jacob.

[Eddie]

As far as Jacob being one of the nicest guys on TMD, I'm not really sure where that's coming from. 2 years ago, when I started becoming really serious about T1, I remember IM'ing jacob after he won the SCG with meandeck oath. He simply blocked me on AIM, and refused to have any contact with me at all. I can't really relate to jacob, but if he has such a strange attitude towards people especially from TMD, that's really terrible, and says something about his personality.

I can only speak for myself. If someone I don't know tries to contact me through messenger or something, the first thing I do is block them. That's not being impolite, that's protecting yourself from various spam crap. I only know Jacob as a nice and friendly person, so I'm sorry your impression is otherwise.

[Anusien]

It depends on how you handled yourself over AIM.  If you were polite and respectful and just had a few quick questions like, "What is your boarding strategy in X matchup?" or "In matchup Y, are you the beatdown or the control?" I'm sure he would have been very helpful.  He is a very busy guy, and if you were asking him for information that is readily and freely available on the net, or even worse, asking him for the premium Oath article Stephen wrote (was the original Oath article premium?), I can understand him being very short.

[Jacob Orlove]

Actually, I'm going to partly agree with adamsand here. I remember a while ago, I had a similar situation come up: Someone stole $300 from me.

When the subject of donating money back to me to pay for my loss came up, Jacob offered the following quote:

If anyone wants to martyr themselves and break the cycle, why dont you just buy the fake off him for what he paid for it and destroy it yourself? You would get my vote for the nicest human alive, and you would resolve the issue, and you would definitely break the cycle. No takers? I am not surprised.

I don't want to sound harsh here, but any american who can afford power can generally afford to lose $300. It's massively unpleasant, but nowhere near the end of the world. If someone is going to give away $300, there are far better charitable causes than Aaron's friend, even though he is no doubt a good person.

And if you're about to ask why I don't rip people off in order to get more money for charity, it's because it's wrong not only to defraud people, but also to try to make that kind of decision (where their money should go) for them. They could even be buying the power so that they can run a charity tournament.

While I'm not saying this is exactly the same situation, it's similar enough where I'm going to say that Adamsand is correct in that if the member of the community who lost power isn't a prominently recognized community, mostly people would just say "oh, that sucks man."

He also wasn't being a jerk towards Roland. He, in fact, told Roland a good place to search, and said he hoped Roland found the cards that were lost.

I'm going to stand behind Adamsand, not because I want to go against the grain but because he's got a very good point: What if Roland were a noname?

Again, I'd gladly let Roland or Jacob, or anyone for that matter borrow cards at tournaments. However, I don't think I'd donate to this because it's not my job to fix their problems, just like it's not their job to fix mine.

And for those who will say its not the same situation, it basically is:
I wasn't paying attention, and someone walked away with $300 of my money.

Yay for fundamental irrationalities in human behavior!

Re=reading what I wrote, I see parts that I agree with, and parts that I don't. First of all, $300 really is a much smaller amount to lose--if I had had a piece of power stolen, I probably wouldn't have even mentioned it on TMD, unless it was very identifiable. However, I was definitely wrong to say that people should do nothing. I was looking at it as "should the community give you $300 or not?" when the real question is "how much should the community give you". Clearly, there's no call for it to be anywhere near the full value of your loss, but likewise, I'm pretty sure that $0 isn't the right number either.

I do need to add, though, that everyone needs to figure out on their own what they think a reasonable amount for the community to give is, and to give no more than their share of that amount. If you feel that you've given enough, then you have (even if "enough" is $0).

NULLROD: I went back and checked my AIM logs from late 2004, and I couldn't find anything from you. What sn were you using at the time?

[Bram]

I'm going to stand behind Adamsand, not because I want to go against the grain but because he's got a very good point: What if Roland were a noname?

In that case, virtually noone would care. And those who would (such as BigMac), would probably not offer financial assistance to a noname. Does that answer your question? This is not the situation, however. Chang and Orlove ARE name players, and people DO care. Deal with it.

A point that has not been touched upon yet is that if n00bmastah69 with 3 posts to his name shows up saying he lost 20,000 bucks worth of cards, and would we please reimburse him, I'd politely tell him to go fuck himself. Wouldn't you? Fact is, I consider some people on these boards friends, as I'm sure many people do. So what's wrong with helping out a friend?

And for those who will say its not the same situation, it basically is

There IS a real difference between your situation and Chang/Orlove's. That difference is about $19,700. I don't start threads everytime I get shortchanged at the pub, but when I'm arsed out of an amount that could buy me a sports car, I might call upon my friends, too. Besides, neither of them asked for money or assistance - it was offered spontaneously. Beyond that, I didn't side with Jacob in the thread you referred to, either, so I believe I'm not being hypocritical in disagreeing with you.

As far as Jacob being one of the nicest guys on TMD, I'm not really sure where that's coming from.

Well, all I can say is that I really like the guy. He's never had any reason to 'suck up' to me; he's always been higher up in the TMD hierarchy than me (plus I'm not much a Vintage celebrity anyway) and yet he's always been nothing but nice to me and everyone I can think of. When visiting The Netherlands, he stayed over at my house, and he turned out to be pleasant company in person, too. But you can't like everyone, can you? While I'm basically a nice guy, there's probably some people that can't stand me, too. That's life.

[orgcandman]

A point that has not been touched upon yet is that if n00bmastah69 with 3 posts to his name shows up saying he lost 20,000 bucks worth of cards, and would we please reimburse him, I'd politely tell him to go fuck himself. Wouldn't you? Fact is, I consider some people on these boards friends, as I'm sure many people do. So what's wrong with helping out a friend?

Absolutely nothing is wrong with helpin out a friend. But there have been a million and one+ posts telling us we need to donate and help out, and when one person says "Well, I feel bad but why should I help out?" (a legitimate question) he was insulted, called despicable, and met with full force animosity. And it's a good question. I merely gave an example of when people didn't help out (which is fine), and said "Why should the community treat Roland Chang differently than some other person?" I've got no problem donating to Jacob, but that's something he and I would settle out of the boards anyway.

And for those who will say its not the same situation, it basically is

There IS a real difference between your situation and Chang/Orlove's. That difference is about $19,700. I don't start threads everytime I get shortchanged at the pub, but when I'm arsed out of an amount that could buy me a sports car, I might call upon my friends, too. Besides, neither of them asked for money or assistance - it was offered spontaneously.

The difference in money doesn't really matter when we're discussion the principle. And I didn't get shortchanged at the pub either, but that's an issue over and done with. The point that you made there was, "If people were so concerned why didn't they donate?" and it was said there "Well, there's no reason to fix the misfortunes of others since there are many more deserving things to spend money on"

I'm not asking for anything, and that includes being told that I'm a jerk, or non-member of the community because I don't donate to the Roland Chang Relief fund 2k6. I'm not interested in being told that I MUST capitulate and donate. For those who say "Oh no one said you have to" read the posts. The undertone is that I'm a dipshit if I don't.

An awful thing happened. Hell, when I first saw it, I immediately expressed my sympathies to Jacob. I know Jacob enough to care about donating what I can to him. But, telling me I need to donate to YOUR friend is pretty shitty, agreed?

As far as Jacob being one of the nicest guys on TMD, I'm not really sure where that's coming from.

From the fact that he really is. Everytime I've met him, he was always pleasant, amicable, and able to discourse on a range of subjects that was more than just "Oh man lets turn this card and that card sideways"

Plus, he has double the mise.

[Anusien]

Plus, he has double the mise.

So true. I was playing at my first ever real major event at SCG Richmond in September 2005.  I was on WtF v3.0, and I beat BBS in my round 1.  I'm carrying a foil Dumb Ass and a Mise as a sort of "avatar".  I get paired up as Jacob Orlove, and so I introduce myself, and try to keep my calm.  I put out my avatar, Mise side up.  He brings out his box and counters with Doublez Le Mise.  Needless to say, I lost.