Worldgorger Goblin

[netherspirit]

Basically I love Nightmares, especially Worldgorger Dragon. Heck, I don't even do stupid mana tricks with him, I love to just drop him in and start beating. So I decided to try a similar card, here it is so far:

Worldgorger Goblin
R
Creature - Nightmare Goblin
Cumulative Upkeep: 1 life.
When Worldgorger Goblin comes into play, remove all other permanents from the game. When Worldgorger Goblin leaves play, return all permanents removed by it to play under their owner's control.
1/1

It needs flavour text, but that's not massively important until it's fully balanced. I chose to make it a Goblin because I wanted to use something small and red, and goblins are just the classic example of small red creatures. I decided to include Cumulative Upkeep for 2 reasons:
1) It means I can cost him at less.
2) He will eventually die, meaning it isn't a permanent balancer.

Current Wording:

Worldgorger Demon
 
Creature - Nightmare Demon
First Strike
When Worldgorger Demon comes into play, if you played it from your hand, remove all other permanents from the game.
When Worldgorger Demon leaves play, return all permanents removed by it to play under their owner's control.
7/5

[parallax]

This + Shock = Apocalypse.

Seriously, the power level on this is way too high.

This is also four extra creatures for Dragon combo. Also, this one doesn't require a discard outlet.

This card needs both a "if you played it from your hand" and a "if this is still in play" clause to be even remotely fair.

[netherspirit]

Ooops, forgot the from hand clause I didn't even notice the shock problem though, thanks for picking it up.

[Matt]

No. Just no.

[parallax]

Well, if it cost six or seven mana it might be okay. Then it could even be a 2/2 with haste or something.

[netherspirit]

Right, can someone please tell me what else is wrong with this? It's not like a 0/1 is hard to kill, I don't mind putting the cost up within reason.

[Harlequin]

Things that make radical adjustments to gamestate (even if they are simetrical changes) typically shouldn't be low casting cost.  Also its not that hard to kill 0/1... unless ofcourse you dont run red.  Putting this in a red deck would give you access to an on-off switch for the entire board.  Even though the ability apears to be simetrical, its not like your ever going to play it when you have some massive army, and your stareing down a lone swamp on the other side of the table. 

Maybe if it only put back into play perminents owned by all OTHER players.  But even then you have a radical gameshift for low mana.

[M.Solymossy]

I think it's fine, if it doesn't have the come-back ability.  Then it seems fine.

[parallax]

Third turn Seething Song, this, Giant Solifuge. Good game.

The ability to float mana, play this and cast a huge threat is too good. Or this and Trinisphere. A 1/1 is hard to kill if you don't have any lands in play. Aether Vial + this completely negates Wrath of God. Blowing up the world should always cost a lot of mana.

[netherspirit]

I guess, what if I cost him at 4 and increase the upkeep cost to 3 life?

I think it's fine, if it doesn't have the come-back ability. Then it seems fine.

Well then it's not a nightmare is it?

[The Atog Lord]

This card is absurd.

A one mana way to remove everything from the game? That effect should cost no less than five mana.

Oh, and don't forget that you can also tap out, play him, and shock him. You've just untapped all of your permanents for RR.

This card is way too good.

[netherspirit]

Oh, and don't forget that you can also tap out, play him, and shock him. You've just untapped all of your permanents for RR.

Hate to burst your bubble but that's already been brought up and the card modified, I'll go with what you say about the mana cost though.

[Matt]

This kind of effect is NEVER going to be playable and fair. It will always be too good or costed into oblivion. An effect this big is not fair at any playable price.

[netherspirit]

Has anyone been paying attention to the Cumulative Upkeep? I think that if I made it a quite harsh cost this may be fair and POSSIBLY playable.

[chrissss]

I think the problem with this card, is that you can play it, and then pretty much win the game. You can play it, then play a land, and do other stuff.

I suppose 5 mana is more fair though, but Still I think its too powerfull. I like the idea though.

[asi]

Also, flavorwise this card bends so many rules. A worldgorging Goblin? That is something Dragons do and other mystical big creatures (sad there are no Beholders in Magic, by the way). An expensive Goblin doesn't justify that kind of thing, even if it would be explained in the storyline (like Slobad's planeswalking was) it would seem silly, but not in the good Goblin-Assassin way (that card was well designed, by the way). A lot oft he expensive Goblins (5+ mana) care about other goblins (Assassin, Siege-Gang Commander, Goblin Marshal, Skirk Fire Marshal), with only some exceptions. You could make it the Goblin Assassin way of card (When another Goblin comes into play, remove a [random?] permanent from the game. Return it when ~this~ leaves play), to give it at least some Goblin-Flavor (mmh...Goblin Flavor  )

[netherspirit]

Bare in mind it's a NIGHTMARE goblin, so it's not going to be a traditional goblin, what if I were to give a creature type like Wizard or something? That way it could be like a spell or experiment etc has gone wrong.

[asi]

Still, it's a goblin, so it parents were Goblins (well, one might be a nightmare. Don't want to imagine this.). It would probably still live under the ancient goblin traditions that all Goblins have lived under so far, so it will always remember its ancient Goblin roots. It's like Razorfin Hunter; a fish might have raped his mother, but he doesn't care and still uses his reddish powers to hunt creatures in the sea (yes, it's also a blue ability, but not a really merfolkish one).

[netherspirit]

Yes but it's going to be a Nightmare to, so it will have a dark and warped mind. Meaning it will care less about its Goblin traditions and more about serving Chainer and co.

[Anusien]

Aside from being tutorable with Goblin Matron, why is this a Goblin and not something much more interesting that fits the flavor?

[netherspirit]

Aside from being tutorable with Goblin Matron, why is this a Goblin and not something much more interesting that fits the flavor?

Because:
a) I wanted it to be read, due to the obvious link with Worldgorger Dragon.
b) There's no way this could have this destructive AND have a big body.

Which creature type fits those categories? - Goblin.

[nietzsche]

Goblin makes some sense as it falls into the line of the pyromancer and the wizard.  Name idea; Goblin Wand Master.  Flavor text, "Finally, after 63,271 lost eyebrows,  the goblins mastered the wand."  or some other throw back to pyromancer.

[Matt]

b) There's no way this could have this destructive AND have a big body.

On the contrary, I feel that there is no way something this destructive could FAIL to have a big body. Little guys don't blow up the world.

[nietzsche]

They do with huge ass uncontrollable wands in their hands.

[Matt]

Then make the wand be powerful and leave the goblin out of it.

[netherspirit]

Yeah but then it can't be a Nightmare Right, I'm determined to keep the mana cost playable, and beings you guys seem to want a big body how about this:

Worldgorger [Creature]
4RR
Cumulative Upkeep: 3 life, discard a card from your hand.
When ~this~ comes into play, if you played it from your hand, remove all other permanents from the game. When ~this~ leaves play, return all permanents removed from the game by it to play under their owner's control.
5/5

Does that seem a bit better?

[Darkenslight]

What about this one:

Worldgorger Master 
Creature - Nightmare Wizard (R)

When Worldgorger Master comes into play, if it's still in play, remove all other permanents you control.  When Worldgorger Master leaves play, reutn all permanents removed by Worldgorger Master to play under its owner's control.

If Worldgorger Master's power or toughness would be reduced, remove it from the game instead.
3/2

[Matt]

Yeah but then it can't be a Nightmare Right, I'm determined to keep the mana cost playable, and beings you guys seem to want a big body how about this:

Worldgorger [Creature]
4RR
Cumulative Upkeep: 3 life, discard a card from your hand.
When ~this~ comes into play, if you played it from your hand, remove all other permanents from the game. When ~this~ leaves play, return all permanents removed from the game by it to play under their owner's control.
5/5

Does that seem a bit better?

Um, no, obliterate + a 5/5 is not better. Wiping the board and leaving you with a creature all in one card will ALWAYS be too good until you price it into oblivion - like 8, 9, 10 mana. This card is effectively "win the game" and there is no way to price that fairly, and that is why it is a mistake to make such a card.

[nietzsche]

Everyone wants a big creature, but why does that big creature have to have big power?  A 0/10 that destroys the world seems kind of weird, but it would make sense flavor wise as a goblin/ wizard/ demon/ whatever that blew up the world then lost all its power.

[netherspirit]

Everyone wants a big creature, but why does that big creature have to have big power?  A 0/10 that destroys the world seems kind of weird, but it would make sense flavor wise as a goblin/ wizard/ demon/ whatever that blew up the world then lost all its power.

Ah, I like the idea. How about a 1/[Insert big number] though so he can actually do damage? I mean, come on, he's still gonna have a hefty cumulative upkeep cost.