Worldgorger Goblin

[nietzsche]

Everyone wants a big creature, but why does that big creature have to have big power?  A 0/10 that destroys the world seems kind of weird, but it would make sense flavor wise as a goblin/ wizard/ demon/ whatever that blew up the world then lost all its power.

Ah, I like the idea. How about a 1/[Insert big number] though so he can actually do damage? I mean, come on, he's still gonna have a hefty cumulative upkeep cost.

Cumulative upkeep isn't OK here - the set so far has a tone of counter related cards, so cumulative wont see any light there.  On the other hand something like "at the begginning of your upkeep you lose 7 life or sacrifice [CARDNAME]" should work well enough.

[Matt]

Everyone wants a big creature, but why does that big creature have to have big power?  A 0/10 that destroys the world seems kind of weird, but it would make sense flavor wise as a goblin/ wizard/ demon/ whatever that blew up the world then lost all its power.

Because that is so very very not-red.

[netherspirit]

Right, I'm going to edit the current wording with people's suggestions and see what you guys think.

Everyone wants a big creature, but why does that big creature have to have big power? A 0/10 that destroys the world seems kind of weird, but it would make sense flavor wise as a goblin/ wizard/ demon/ whatever that blew up the world then lost all its power.

Because that is so very very not-red.

I really dunno what to make of that Matt. It probably does make sense but I'm just not getting it.

EDIT: I've just changed the wording, now it needs a new creature type, any ideas?

[Matt]

Red is not a defensive color.

[netherspirit]

Red is not a defensive color.

Ah, ok, I get what you meant now. Any thoughts on the new version?

[Harlequin]

I think it would be better if the Upkeep was not a choice.  Haveing this dude just sit around and be able to reset the board, then not pay for him, and resume the game seems out of flavor.

Angel of Singularity 3RW
   
Creature - Nightmare Angel
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep Pay 4 life for each permenant you control.
When Angel of Singularity comes into play, if you played it from your hand and Angel of Singularity is still in play, remove all other permanents from the game.
When Angel of Singularity leaves play, return all permanents you do not own removed by it to play under their owner's control.

"She studied the ways of the Worldgorger so she would have the skills to defeat it... " - Boros Storyteller.
4/4


This way, you need to be 4 life ahead of your opponent when you play this card.  There is a harsh insentive for you to NOT play cards, and a stricter punishment if this is removed from play (ie you don't get your cards back).  It is an all or nothing win condition if your ahead in the life race in the late game.

  I changed the name and creature type and added a color to give it some much needed flavor.

[netherspirit]

Harlequin: I like the card ability, and I shall change the current wording. But unless everyone else thinks it should be a white angel I'm going to keep it red, how about a demon for creature type?

[LordHomerCat]

I HATE "if you played it from your hand" on these, there has to be a way to design this ability so that its safe to leave that ugly ugly clause off.  For instance, just make stuff return to play tapped and you alleviate the problems of WGD2.0, and of making this guy a super turnabout.  The "if he is still in play" seems like a good plan though, so he isnt just a cheap Decree of Annihilation.

On another note: Why are you making this card?  I don't get the point behind such a ridiculous effect.  Making a card thats like "14UUUUU, Instant, You Win the Game" is not an interesting card, nor is somehting like "RRRRRRR, Sorcery, Both Players take 20 to the head".  Making cards that just basically end the game are not at all exciting, and making this guy cost like 6 million mana AND have some ridiculous drawback like Cum Upkeep: 5 life or something is just trying to hard to fit the effect somewhere.  Maybe this just isn't an effect that should go on a creature?

[parallax]

Returning the cards to play tapped doesn't neuter the combo with Animate Dead. You just end up using Caller of the Claw instead of Laquatus or other infinite mana wins.

[netherspirit]

Why are you making this card?

I guess it's just my attempt at a less broken Worldgorger Dragon.

[parallax]

Why are you making this card?

I guess it's just my attempt at a less broken Worldgorger Dragon.

Worldgorger Dragon, when played normally, is not broken because it doesn't wipe your opponent's board away! It is a significant drawback on a strong flying creature. Removing your opponent's board, on the other hand, is not a drawback. In many situations, it's actually a benefit. A benefit which is even better when it leaves a sizable creature in play. As such, it would need to be costed like a benefit. Look at the cost of Obliterate. Then imagine an Obliterate that gave you a creature. The fact that this card returns everything back to play is irrelevant, because 90% of the time, it will never happen.

[Harlequin]

I think the easiest way to make this creature fair is to design it around:

When Angel of Singularity leaves play, return all permanents you do not own removed by it to play under their owner's control.

It sovles any of the animate dead tricks, and makes the card signifigantly more risky.

[LordHomerCat]

Returning the cards to play tapped doesn't neuter the combo with Animate Dead. You just end up using Caller of the Claw instead of Laquatus or other infinite mana wins.

That means you must have Caller in the yard or 2G open when you cast animate.  That is sufficiently un-scary.  You don't get to mill with bazaar if everything CIPT.

[parallax]

Returning the cards to play tapped doesn't neuter the combo with Animate Dead. You just end up using Caller of the Claw instead of Laquatus or other infinite mana wins.

That means you must have Caller in the yard or 2G open when you cast animate.  That is sufficiently un-scary.  You don't get to mill with bazaar if everything CIPT.

You can still draw the game. Besides, this guy on his own isn't scary, but 4 WGD and 4 this guy? Dragon is a redundant enough combo already.

[netherspirit]

Right, what if I add a non life cost, like random discard? ie "at the beggining of your upkeep discard 2 cards at random from your hand, if you don't sacrifice ~this~".

Or I could make it something like "whenever you play a card, sacrifice ~this~".

Either of those sound ok?

[parallax]

Hasn't this happened before? Cards with incredibly strong abilities with unflavorful drawbacks tacked on in lieu of actually fixing the power level of the card? If you want this effect on a card, you should be willing to pay for it.

Worldgorger Demon

Creature - Nightmare Demon
5/5
Flying, Haste, whatever
When Worldgorger Demon comes into play, if you played it from your hand, remove all other permanents from the game if it's still in play.
When Worldgorger Demon leaves play, return all permanents removed by it to play under their owner's control.


I'm pretty sure "You win the game." costs 12 mana.

[netherspirit]

Parallax: I LOVE that, I don't care that it's completely unplayable, every set needs junk rares, and you never know, it could see play in some weird R/G mana acceleration deck.

[parallax]

You can feel free to remove the "if it's in play" clause. The "combo" with Fiery Conclusion now costs 14 mana rather than 2. I think we can allow 14-mana 2-card Apocalypses.

You might want to play around with the keyword abilities. At this cost, they're largely irrelevant, but it might be more "sporting" to allow the opponent to chump-block this guy in an attempt to recover.

P/T should come immediately after the type line.

[netherspirit]

Can I get away with making it bigger? I mean, this guys a Demon, he's just blown up the world, and he's still got enough energy left to get over summoning sickness, what's the most I can get away with P/T wise?

[parallax]

He just blew up the world. He can take his time consuming its remains. The card is more interesting if the opponent has a chance, however slim, of recovering. I could condone 6/6, maybe 7/7 if you remove haste. But I like 5/5 because he's still in range of some decent removal spells. Maybe 6/5 or 7/5 would be okay. Don't push him too hard, though. He already has a ridiculously powerful ability.

The "if it's in play" clause would allow instant speed removal to save the world from being destroyed. Is that desirable?

[zeus-online]

The "if it's in play" clause would allow instant speed removal to save the world from being destroyed. Is that desirable?

As a fan of most super villains, i vote against the attempt to save the world!  :lol:

Anyway, at that cost i think its almost "fair" for him to actually let you win the game like 95% of the time.

I can almost imagine the art for this guy...sweeet!

/Zeus

[Illissius]

Hasn't this happened before? Cards with incredibly strong abilities with unflavorful drawbacks tacked on in lieu of actually fixing the power level of the card? If you want this effect on a card, you should be willing to pay for it.

Worldgorger Demon

Creature - Nightmare Demon
5/5
Flying, Haste, whatever
When Worldgorger Demon comes into play, if you played it from your hand, remove all other permanents from the game if it's still in play.
When Worldgorger Demon leaves play, return all permanents removed by it to play under their owner's control.

This is the first card in the thread which doesn't make me want to throw up, which is commendable.
A couple of minor nitpicks:
- Demons should be black. Eating the world is also sort of black. (I'm advocating B/R here, not monoblack.)
- "whatever" should probably be "trample"

I'm pretty sure "You win the game." costs 12 mana.

It actually costs 3, 9, 15, or 21, depending on whether you go by Yawgmoth's Will, Tooth and Nail, Door to Nothingness, or Fireball. But 12 is also reasonable.

[netherspirit]

Right, so he needs to have black to be a demon, and he needs to cost a lot, would it really make much difference if we made him R/B and turned the cost into hybrid symbols? (How do I get them btw? I saw them used on the Puzzle Box thread but haven't worked out how to do it.)

[Matt]

He doesn't HAVE to be a demon you know.

But yeah that is also the first version I didn't vomit at too.

[Godder]

(How do I get them btw? I saw them used on the Puzzle Box thread but haven't worked out how to do it.)

I believe they were linked in using the img tags and images from another site. To see precisely how he did it, go into the thread, click 'quote' on the first post (top right corner of the post) and steal the tags from the resulting quote.

[netherspirit]

He doesn't HAVE to be a demon you know.

Yeah, but who doesn't like a nice big beefy demon that rips the world up? Unless anyone's got any better suggestions on creature type?

EDIT: I've changed the P/T to 7/5.

[parallax]

I don't really like using hybrid mana on cards that don't need it. Is there any compelling reason to use hybrid here other than to justify his Demonhood? Kamigawa actually had a couple mono-red demons. There are plenty of other creature types this could still be. The biggest problem with this card now is just that it really wishes it could be a dragon, but then I like it better without flying anyway. Other creature types this could be: Giant, Beast, Lizard, Djinn.

[Illissius]

Eating the world sounds very characteristically black to me, and also something a Demon would be likely to do. This is why I think it should be a Demon, and it should be black. I don't care either way about hybrid mana, it could just as well use plain .
If not Demon, then Djinn isn't bad.

[nietzsche]

A djinn seems really cool (a genie who went made and blew everything up) but does wizards still do djinn?

[netherspirit]

Kamigawa actually had a couple mono-red demons.

Well then, a demon it stays.

EDIT: Back to mono red now.