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Author Topic: [Report] Vintage Championship - Top 8, 5th-8th Finish  (Read 5653 times)
Liek
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« on: August 15, 2006, 08:56:46 pm »

Vintage Championship report, Paul Nicolo

The championship prelim the night before didn't go so well, after beating 5C Stax in the first round, I took a bad loss to an Oath deck that was prepared for my fish-like plans (and some mull to 4 action,) and lost round 3 to a combo deck that had infi Rituals to trump my Chalice zero.

Friday night I wasn't too confident, I woke up with the same feeling. On the car ride over I changed my sideboard to better accommodate what I saw at the prelim. Still unsure with my chances of victory, I entered with the following list:

UWB Fish

3 Stormscape Apprentice
4 Meddling Mage
4 Dark Confidant
4 Voidmage Prodigy
3 Kataki, War's Wage
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours

4 Aether Vial
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Force of Will
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Island
1 Plains

Sideboard:
4 True Believer
2 Disenchant
2 Annul
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Energy Flux

The same pile I always play, this time with True Believers instead of Silver Knights in the board, and a second Tormod's Crypt over a second Jitte.

Round 1: Bomberman

Strangely, it was the same person I played round 1 of the prelim, playing the same color sleeves. I assumed he was playing Stax again..

Game 1: I keep a hand that's good against Stax, and his first play is an Island. I have a Vial, make some guys, Force of Will a Trinket Mage, and tap his Salvagers with Apprentice. I stop his attempt at going off by Vialing a Meddling Mage naming Black Lotus in response to him Salvaging it.

Game 2: I don't remember much about this game, other than messing up his mana and countering things with Voidmage Prodigy.

Round 2: Lyle, playing Control Slaver

My opponent doesn't show for awhile, so I watch Vroman's match on the left of me and Ben Carp's match on the right. Eventually a judge shows up, tells me he's registered 61 cards but only wrote 60 down or something, and has a game loss. Lyle shows up, complains a bit about having to play with 4 Goblin Welders, and we play game 2.

Game 2: He resolves a Tinker and gets Sundering Titan and kills some of my mana. I play a Sapphire and a Tundra, tap the Sapphire for Stormscape Apprentice. He Strip Mines my Tundra, forcing me to Swords to Plowshares the Titan. It resolves, and I add Voidmage Prodigy the turn after. He fights to get back into the game, resolving a Welder by Stifling a Voidmage activation. I carefully attack with some of my guys each turn until it's over.

Round 3: Dragon

Game 1: I use Lotus to hardcast Ninja on turn 1. He Bazaars some Deep Analysis's into his graveyard and plays out a bunch of mana. The Ninja was my only blue card for my Force of Will, but I decided the Ninja would hit another. The first 2 turns of Ninja bashing got me no blue cards, so I was defenseless for several turns. Fortunately, all he did these turns was play Deep Analysis and Intuition for set up. The third Ninja turn drew me Meddling Mage and Swords to Plowshares. He goes for Necromancy, I call a judge for the Oracle text to make sure I know what it does. I Force of Will, he Force of Wills back.

At this point, the Dragon enters play and I announce something like, "In response to its "permanents leaving play" trigger, Swords to Plowshares." I may have said it wrong, but he interpreted me as saying, "In response to the "when Worldgorger Dragon leaves play" trigger, etc." A judge is called, I explain my intended play, and he argues that I worded it incorrectly. However, the judge sides with me.

There are at least 2 reasons why I'm right, the two I can think of being that I can't STP the Dragon in response to its second trigger because it won't be in play, the other reason being that the second trigger wasn't on the stack because the first trigger hadn't resolved yet, all of his permanents were still in play.

Anyways, his permanents are removed and I win the first game.

Game 2: He Careful Studies and discards a Deep Analysis. I play a Vial and pass. He draws some cards and sets up some mana. On the turn where my Vial got to 2, I cast Tormod's Crypt.

He responds to the Crypt with Intuition. I respond to Intuition by activating Aether Vial, and putting True Believer into play. A judge is called, the oracle text is looked up, and the Intuition is countered. The Crypt resolves. The turn after my defenses are Vial on 2, Voidmage in hand, UU open, and 2x Force of Will 2x Blue card in hand.

Round 4: Pitch Long

Game 1: He mulls to 5. I lead with Vial, he leads with Swamp, Dark Ritual, Necropontence. He draws a ton of cards, I play some guys and Wasteland an Underground Sea. I play a Kataki against his board of Swamp and Sol Ring. He lets the Ring die and plays several Rituals, and Demonic Tutors. He casts a Brainstorm and concedes.

Game 2: He again mulls to 5, but I keep a one lander and waste some cards Enlightened Tutoring for a Mox Sapphire to cast Voidmage Prodigy. He Massacres it, and we both play off the top for a few turns. I draw into True Believer and some other beaters and he isn't able to kill me with what he drew.

Round 5: UBW Aggro

Game 1: He has a Tundra, so I convince myself he's playing Bomberman and play out a Chalice. We then Wasteland each other to nothing and play off the top looking for lands. He gets to lands before I do, I draw both Sapphire and Lotus, he draws Recall and Time Walk.

Game 2: He starts fast with 2 Negators, I'm forced to play out guys hoping to block and kill enough of his permanents to stop him from attacking. He Pithing Needles my Vials and Wastelands, giving him a ton of permanents to work with. I eventually get an Apprentice and a Swords, but he removes my Apprentice, so he still has a Negator active. I make the fatal mistake of failing to reveal to Dark Confidant, so the Annul I was supposed to reveal was instead revealed as the Ninja of the Deep Hours in my hand (the current ruling is to reveal hand and take damage equal to highest CMC.)

I draw Enlightened Tutor, get my Jitte. I get some counters, and have to use them for life. I end up at one, he has Negator, I have Mage with Jitte and no counters. I die. Had I the three extra life, I may have won and forced a third game.

Round 6: 5 color Stax

Game 1: I keep Wasteland, Vial, and spells on the draw. He leads with Shop Sphere of Resistance. I have the weakest opening ever, Wasteland, go. He Has some more artifacts that aren't lock pieces, I fail to draw a land and pass. He plays a Smokestack, I draw a land for the Vial.

He puts the Stack to 1, I manage to get a second Vial into play by ripping another land. Next turn I Wasteland his City of Brass, leaving his board with 2 Workshops and a ton of artifacts. During my upkeep I Vial Kataki into play and sacrifice my Vials. I draw Plains and play it. During his upkeep he loses all of his artifacts, and the moment he puts the Sphere in the bin I Swords to Plowshares his Welder. He is left with 2 Workshops and nothing else. I draw Black Lotus, play 2 Confidants, and on the first turn of revealing I hit Force of Will and Ninja. I go down to 6, and have lethal on the board. I don't kill myself, so I attack for lethal.

Fortunately, he didn't know he could let stuff die to Kataki and weld them back into play in response to other Kataki triggers.

Game 2: I Energy Flux all of his stuff, but he has double Welder and Triskelion. He welds it in and shoots me a bunch.

Game 3: I play Chalice zero and Vial, he plays City of Brass, Sol Ring, Chalice one. I am relieved, no Welders to deal with, but distressed, since he has a ton of mana. I play a Meddling Mage and decide to name Smokestack or something. Every time I don't name Balance they have it, so he Balances and I'm left with almost nothing. I disenchant his Sol Ring and topdeck into some guys, and he plays a Crop Rotation into his Chalice. He is frustrated way too much at this point, I'm able to win easily from there.

Round 7: UBW Aggro again.

Yuck, another aggro mirror. And it's at the highest playing table, so there's a crowd. Obviously, I play like an idiot for most of it.

Game 1: I have a turn 1 Vial, he Ancestral Recalls, I Ancestral Recall, and I get a Dark Confidant to reveal a ton of extra cards. I manage to run him over with a ton of guys.

Game 2: I have a Vial again, but I find myself behind early as he has a Confidant drawing him extra cards. He removes my first few guys, and establishes a strong position. He has early Vampiric and Demonic Tutors, which I believe resulted in Ancestral Recall and a Phyrexian Negator that I Swords to Plowshares.

A few turns later I make a ridiculously stupid play. It involved Meddling Mage and Aether Vial. I wanted to Vial out the Mage before his mainphase, but I didn't want the Vial activation to be Stifled, since I needed the 2/2 on the board. I decide to Vial during his upkeep, before he does anything. In my stupid thinking, I forget he has Dark Confidant. Obviously, the correct play is to wait for him to reveal, and Vial out the Mage and name what he reveals. So instead, before revealing to Dark Confidant, I Vial out a Mage, and name Phyrexian Negator.
 
He reveals a Phyrexian Negator to his Dark Confidant. I guess I'm just that lucky.

Anyways, a few turns later, I draw my Jitte and get it active and kill every guy he plays thereafter. How lucky.

Round 8: Paul Mastriano, playing Pitch Long.

We intentionally draw at the first table (which, due to silly table numbering systems for all of the events, was table 61.)

Quarterfinals: Robert Vroman, playing Uba Stax

Game 1: I lead with Aether Vial, he plays a Barbarian Ring, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Chalice 2. I can't play Mage, so I pass. We trade a bunch of cards, Swords for Welder, Swords for Duplicant and my 2/2. I end up with 2 Mishra's Factories, which he handles with a Port and a Wasteland. I'm waiting to find another creature, as his life is at 6. He plays an Uba Mask, which I let resolve, then forcing me to Wasteland his Bazaar. He finds a Smokestack, so we begin racing.

It comes down looking like he'll get to keep 2 things, and I'll lose everything. On the last turn I have to keep fighting, I draw a Dark Confidant and Vial it out. That reveals a Wasteland, which takes out his Shop, which will force the Smokestack to clear both boards. The Confidant also attacks him down to 2.

Both boards are clear, he plays a Chalice on zero. At this point I have 2 Voidmages in hand, and no lands, with only 5 lands left in my deck. I find a land, and play a Vial. He finds a Bazaar the turn after. I Vial up to 1, and pass. He plays a Workshop, a Null Rod, and burns to 1. Obviously I draw Force of Will the following turn, obviously.

He continues to gas up with the Bazaar, I sit and draw Ninjas and Force of Wills. I have to counter some stuff that will kill my land, and he eventually finds a Crucible, to go with basic Mountain and Barbarian Ring.

Game 2: I keep 3 lands, Chalice, Meddling Mage, Ninja, Force of Will. I play Chalice on zero, and I Force of Will a Welder, and play the Mage on turn 2. I think for awhile, and decide that he has a Tangle Wire in his hand, and I name that. Two turns later he has a Bazaar, 2 Welders, and a Heretic, he gets a Duplicant in the yard with Bazaar, and a couple turns after that he has the ability to weld Tangle Wire and Uba Mask every turn during my upkeep.

Unfortunate, as he had no Moxen, so my Chalice did nothing, and he had triple Welder.

I sell my packs to a nearby dealer (I would have liked to open the Italian packs, but hotel rooms, gasoline, parking, $75 entry fees, and food all cost money that I didn't have,) all of my friends have finished day two of the VS Pro Circuit a long time beforehand, so they quickly force me to leave, preventing me from watching the remainder of the top 8.

And the whole end of the report thing:

Props:
-Pam Willoughby and RIW Hobbies, for being awesome and constantly supporting myself and others.
-Brian Demars, for having faith in me, and constantly believing that I would make top 8, even when I thought I wouldn't (and for letting me have the Lotus the week before at the RIW tournament.)
-All of the RIW crew for giving me a way to get to Gencon and a hotel to sleep in.
-Ed, for letting me use his DCI Factories in the top 8, and Mitch, for letting me use his foil Japanese cards.
-Everybody that played and judged the tournament.

Slops:
-Me, for being an idiot at times (many times, actually.)
-Poor prize payouts.
-$75 entry fees.
-Goblin Welder, for killing me a lot.
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Machinus
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« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2006, 09:58:14 pm »

Thanks for the report, and congratulations on your performance.
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« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2006, 04:32:40 pm »

Congrats on the finish and nice report.

Couple of questions regarding the deck...

Are there any changes you would make to the list after playing at the championshiop?
Is Ninja of the Deep Hours still needed in the deck even though you have Dark Confidants?

What is the worse matchup for the deck?

Thanks for the report, btw.

[Edit]  Have you considered Withered Wretch as a creature since it forces Welder.dec and Dragon to go belly up?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2006, 04:37:16 pm by Sephiroth_FFVII » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2006, 04:55:07 pm »

Congrats on the finish Paul.

I'm sick of you crushing 5c Stax.  Why do you think your matchup vs. Ubastax is so poor whereas the 5c matchup is favorable?  Wouldn't you think it would be the opposite (with bombs like Balance, etc)?

Anyways congrats and I hope to see you on the 27th (if you can make it!)

Regards,

Pac
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« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2006, 06:38:15 pm »

Good job and good report.  I believe the correct thing to say when playing against dragon is to STP "In response to the dragon's come into play effects"
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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2006, 10:03:50 pm »

I'm really glad to see fish do so well, even if it was with Vials. Wink  Congratulations on the finish.
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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2006, 02:11:10 am »

Quote from: Sephiroth_FFVII
Couple of questions regarding the deck...

Are there any changes you would make to the list after playing at the championshiop?
Is Ninja of the Deep Hours still needed in the deck even though you have Dark Confidants?

What is the worse matchup for the deck?

Have you considered Withered Wretch as a creature since it forces Welder.dec and Dragon to go belly up?

Ninja and Confidant work together very well. The deck wants to draw a ton of cards, having both is very good. Sometimes Dark Confidant might danger my life total, and Ninjas can remove him from play.

Goblins is my worst matchup, by far. As far as decks people play, I consider Bomberman and Uba Stax to be my worst matchups. Bomberman has a bunch of creatures that can block things, and I've never beaten Uba Stax in a tournament (although I've only played against it twice.) Also, Oath decks with sideboards prepared for Fish give me problems.

Withered Wretch costs BB, so it really can't go into my deck. I don't even play enough black for Vampiric Tutor or Duress.

If I made any changes to the list, I'd get the second Jitte back into the board somehow. The Disenchants haven't been so great lately, so they might go, but I'd be afraid of going into a tournament without a card like Disenchant to answer random  cards that might bother me. I might cut the 2 Disenchants for a Jitte and a Seal of Cleansing (to E-Tutor for.)

Quote from: PacmanXSA
I'm sick of you crushing 5c Stax.  Why do you think your matchup vs. Ubastax is so poor whereas the 5c matchup is favorable?  Wouldn't you think it would be the opposite (with bombs like Balance, etc)?

Anyways congrats and I hope to see you on the 27th (if you can make it!)

While 5c stax has more bombs, Uba Stax has far better mana, tons of Barbarian Rings, Tangle Wires, and a sideboard full of cards that are really good against Fish. And Uba Stax is piloted by Robert Vroman.

I'll try to make it to your next tournament, and hopefully I'll get some people to come with me this time.

Quote from: yespuhyren
Good job and good report.  I believe the correct thing to say when playing against dragon is to STP "In response to the dragon's come into play effects"

Yeah, that's what I was intending to do, I just said it in a somewhat misleading way.

Quote from: Yare
I'm really glad to see fish do so well, even if it was with Vials. Wink  Congratulations on the finish.

Aether Vial is the nut high, definetly the best 4-of in the deck.

Thanks for all the feedback.
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2006, 02:19:52 am »

Great Report Paul!

I was really happy that you made to eight.  I honestly don't know anybody who has put as much effort into improving their game in the past year as you have, and I'm really glad that it is starting to pay off in spades for you.

I told Steve that I thought you were a lock for top eight the week before GenCon, thanks for kicking ass and not making me look dumb.  Man, I get so sick of being right all the time!  jk

Anyways, congratulations on a job well done.

Cheers,
Brian

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« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2006, 08:38:58 am »

I believe the actual prediction was: "If a good fish player (i.e. knows exactly what they are doing in every respect) goes 3-0, they will make top 8."  I agreed.  One fish player has historically been in the vintage champs top 8.  Good jorb.  And way to represent.
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« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2006, 03:07:16 pm »

A few turns later I make a ridiculously stupid play. It involved Meddling Mage and Aether Vial. I wanted to Vial out the Mage before his mainphase, but I didn't want the Vial activation to be Stifled, since I needed the 2/2 on the board. I decide to Vial during his upkeep, before he does anything. In my stupid thinking, I forget he has Dark Confidant. Obviously, the correct play is to wait for him to reveal, and Vial out the Mage and name what he reveals. So instead, before revealing to Dark Confidant, I Vial out a Mage, and name Phyrexian Negator.
 
He reveals a Phyrexian Negator to his Dark Confidant. I guess I'm just that lucky.

Anyways, a few turns later, I draw my Jitte and get it active and kill every guy he plays thereafter. How lucky.
This kind of intricate technical timing stuff is invaluable to new players and pro's.   Thanks for pointing this stuff out, and thanks for giving a detailed report!


Slops:
-Me, for being an idiot at times (many times, actually.)
-Poor prize payouts.
-$75 entry fees.
-Goblin Welder, for killing me a lot.

How did GenCon justify a $75 entry fee?  Was the Mox Pearl commissioned for such a high price? I hear rumors of "packs of cards" as prizes.  To be fair, getting first place and being T1 Vintage World Champ is pretty tight, getting 2nd or 5-8 is pretty sweet in a Sanctioned No-Proxy event, but $75? How much does it cost to be a "T2 Champ"?
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« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2006, 03:52:03 pm »

Gencon entry was $75 for a 4day pass. The event was a $6 entry.  Prizes to top8 were just packs (of RGD, CSP, and a few Italian Legends).  In other words, they were a good deal cheaper than a piece of power like SCG gives out, for an overall more expensive tourney.  Thats why the prize support sucks for a Vintage event, given the cost of entry required.
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« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2006, 05:22:30 pm »

Hi and congratulation for your result Very Happy


I just have a few question on our building.
We have build a similaire deck in France with some differences:
As you have pointed out, this deck wants to draw tones of cards. Have you tryed Dimir Cutpurse for the ninja's slot ? It can often win the game by itself.
Were the mishra's factory very usefull ? We often had problem with colordeath during playtests and tournaments, and we didn't run them.
Concerning the spot removal, we ran 2 swords, and 2 Echoing Truth, but that was mainly a metagame call, have you been always happy with the 3 swords ?
You don't run brainstorm or top, how do you fell without them ? Also, no tutor (demonic or vamp) ?

Again, gratz for your result Wink
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« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2006, 01:03:44 pm »

I don't like Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, or Brainstorm in a Fish deck because they don't actively hurt the opponent. Fish doesn't have time to mess around, you have to mess with your opponent's plans as quickly as possible. Also, I commonly name Brainstorm with Meddling Mage.

Basically, you can only play Mishra's Factory in the deck if you play Aether Vial. Without a Vial, casting some of the creatures can be tough. But all of the good things Factories do make them worth having.

Dimir Cutpurse isn't right for this deck. Ninja has synergy with Meddling Mage, and you'd have to put Aether Vial up to 3 to get Cutpurse into play. But his effect is pretty powerful, I might try it out.

Swords to Plowshares is a weird spot in the deck. I hate having to play 3, as they are really bad against Long for the most part, and Gifts for the most part. Every time I board them out against Gifts they have Tinker and Force of Will in thier opening hand, though.

Anyways, I think 3 is the right number. Thier primary job is to stop the deck from losing to Tinker randomly. Echoing Truth might be ok, but it costsmore and doesn't stop Goblin Welders very well.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2006, 09:42:22 pm by Liek » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2006, 04:15:07 pm »

Congrats man!

What does your list look like when you get 10 proxies? I assume you play more Moxen right?
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« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2006, 07:54:57 pm »

I'm curious of your opinion on Jotun Grunt in the post Gencon world. Would he make a squeeze into your deck? If so what would you cut?
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« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2006, 08:20:25 pm »

I don't think so Nicolae.  I'm pretty sure that he would have just borrowed extra power from me if he had wanted to play other moxes.
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« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2006, 09:20:59 pm »

Way to go Paul!! Finally, a Vintage Champs T8er who actually talks to me. I knew you would be in top 8, as I was telling Steve all day so repetively that he threatened to force-feed me my Angel Stompy deck.  Sorry about the second T8 loss to Vroman, but you definately went down swinging. Congrats again!
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<Allan[CHN]> End my turn
It is now turn 2 (dre4m)
dre4m plays Gemstone Mine from Hand
dre4m plays Mox Emerald from Hand
dre4m plays Black Lotus from Hand
dre4m plays Mox Ruby from Hand
dre4m plays Mox Jet from Hand
dre4m taps Mox Ruby
dre4m plays Goblin Welder from Hand
dre4m sacrifices Black Lotus
dre4m taps Mox Jet
dre4m plays Smokestack from Hand
dre4m taps Gemstone Mine
dre4m taps Mox Emerald
dre4m plays Sphere of Resistance from Hand
<dre4m> pass
<Allan[CHN]> ....gg
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« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2006, 09:46:10 pm »

Yeah, I only play one Mox. Seems silly, I know, but additional Moxen don't really do much for this deck. I know how flawed it sounds, but Tundras and Underground Seas are useful than a non-blue Moxen.

The only spot Jotun Grunt can take is Kataki's, since they are both white cards. As the deck is the blue card/Force of Will ratio is a little poor, when I added the Dark Confidants it lowered the blue count to about its minimum. So, if Jotun Grunt proves to be better than Kataki, I'll play it. I keep imagining a scenario where you put thier Recall back into thier deck and they search for it and cast it again, I don't want that to happen...

Anyways, since I haven't played in an event where Coldsnap was legal, I haven't tested the deck/format with anything from Coldsnap. So, I honestly don't know how good the Grunt is, but I'm seeing a lot of positive comments about him in Fish decks.

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