Infernal Verdict

[ghostchild]

Infernal Verdict
BB
Sorcery
Target player discards two cards. You may draw a card. If you do, you lose 6 life. Otherwise, you lose 2 life.

Inspired by the "Ritual Redux" thread, I made this card as a new Hymn to Tourach and I think it's fair but powerful. For 2 mana, even with loss of life, it has to be non-random.
I am definitely open to it being simply "Target player discards two cards and you lose 2 life" though.

Current Wording:
Infernal Verdict
BB
Sorcery
Target player discards two cards and you lose 2 life.

[Matt]

Yeah, where in the world did the cantripping part come from? That's so random.

It's generally a bad idea to try and make "fixed" versions of older, too-good cards. #1 because people almost never actually fix it well, #2 because it's kind of boring, #3 because it's almost always already been done (See Stupor, Wrench Mind, and the Fall half of Rise/Fall for fixed Hymns).

[Mindstab_Thrull]

I agree, it's hard to rebuild Hymn to Tourach in a 'fixed' manner. At this point, they seem to feel  {2} for a Sorcery "Discard two cards", possibly with a minor benefit (Waking Nightmare is Arcane) is fair. And of course they're *not* going to give us Instant discard without a fight. That being said, you might get away with something like:


Sorcery
Target player discards two cards at random. You lose three life for each card discarded this way.

Still a very strong card nonetheless. Lose the 'random' and make it 2 life, maybe. But it's so hard to get two cards for two mana without using a second colour (see Gerrard's Verdict for a good example).

[Matt]

The random part is why people hated playing against Hymn so much.

[Anusien]

It's fairly sure that discarding two cards has to cost at least three.  Wizards doesn't want 2 mana discard to be able to take lands.

[parallax]

Discard two for with a drawback a la Wrench Mind is fair. It's the random discard that made Hymn so nasty. "Target player discards two cards. You lose 4 life." would be fair at .

[asi]

Discard two for with a drawback a la Wrench Mind is fair. It's the random discard that made Hymn so nasty. "Target player discards two cards. You lose 4 life." would be fair at .

4 life is too much, really. Wrench Mind very often does make your opponent discard two cards, and it was unspectacular, not to say bad. I think 2 life are okay for 2 non-random discards.

[ghostchild]

I'm sort of disappointed that the optional cantrip isn't liked. I still enjoy that aspect of the card, as it feels very black. Maybe this makes more sense:

Infernal Verdict
BB
Sorcery
Target player discards two cards. You may draw two cards. If you do, you lose 8 life. Otherwise, you lose 2 life.

This makes it more like a black "Drain" effect, but for your opponent's hand.

[Matt]

All those life losses are just complicating the card. You should just make it: opponent discards 2, you draw 1 for 2BB. It's slightly  harder to play than Unnerve and slightly better (in a one player game).

It's also a step up in power and mana from Unhinge.

[Anusien]

I'm sort of disappointed that the optional cantrip isn't liked. I still enjoy that aspect of the card, as it feels very black. Maybe this makes more sense:

Infernal Verdict
BB
Sorcery
Target player discards two cards. You may draw two cards. If you do, you lose 8 life. Otherwise, you lose 2 life.

This makes it more like a black "Drain" effect, but for your opponent's hand.

That's ridiculously broken.  Ancestral for BB (in pure card advantage) in the color that can turn around and drain life you back?  A hair too ridiculous.  I think Matt is spot-on with his tweaks.

[parallax]

I think you need to decide what kind of card you're trying to make. If you want a discard-two that cantrips, increase the cost. If you're trying to make a discard-two for two mana with a drawback, then lose the cantrip. Don't try to do both at once.

Your current card is busted beyond words. This is actually +1 card advantage compared to Ancestral Recall. Any card that you feel compelled to add "lose 8 life" to is probably just broken to begin with.

[ghostchild]

Okay, I have quickly realized the power of the current card, and I'm now thinking it should be the simplest spell possible. So discard 2 lose 2 it is.

[parallax]

Yay! Good card. Sort of like a reverse Night's Whisper.

[Mindstab_Thrull]

Maybe 3 life, then?

[Matt]

Maybe 3 life, then?

Nah, this is fine as is. It's worse than a too-good card (hymn), not worse than acceptable alternatives (wrench mind), and not really comparable to NW (BB vs 1B, and discard is often worse than draw).

[parallax]

I think 2 life is fair. Non-random discard isn't that bad.

My comparison to Night's Whisper was thematic (two cards, 2 life), not power-wise. Obviously, discard and draw are very different animals.

[Mindstab_Thrull]

Sounds like a general consensus has been reached on it then..

Infernal Verdict

Sorcery
Target player discards two cards. You lose two life.

Looks like a good card to me.