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Author Topic: Bomberman vs Bob-berman  (Read 14762 times)
Pathian
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« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2006, 07:14:22 pm »

this sideboard was in Simon McRae's deck for boston where he got second place.

Sideboard:
4 Chalice Of The Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Kami Of Ancient Law
2 Ronom Unicorn
2 Darkblast
3 Kataki, War's Wage

i don't understand the 2 kami of ancient law and the 2 ronom unicorn.
is there so much enchantment's at boston or do i over look something?

also where did he put the cotv on?
and what is possible to cut from your deck if playing vs fish, staxx, gifts and long?

Simon's deck has no md bounce or StPs. The Unicorn/Kami combination seems most likely to deal with Oath before it triggers since the only other answer in the deck to Oath is EngEx which is only good before it triggers
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« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2006, 01:01:47 am »

The Kamis and Unicorns are there for Oath as was pointed out earlier, also they're a house versus Dragon. Oath is an easy game 1 if they don't resolve a rod because you have trinket--> spellbomb to slow them down on top of your normal disruption. Post board Simic Sky Swallower destroys this plan, so Kamis have to come in to hate the Oath itself instead of the creature. Oath with Null rods can be a very hard matchup post board, so I felt the need to have 4 Kamis in the side although they arn't necessary. The sideboard of this deck like most others is very metagame dependant.

The extra Tormod's crypt in board is useful against Ichorid and that's it, so it was dropped. I cut 1 Kataki and added 2 Energy Flux in order to further hate Stax post-board, since it's a rough matchup for Boberman.

I'm now playing 3 Erayos maindeck because they're so freaking insane against control.

The CotVs come in on the play against Gifts and Long, and 1 Chalice comes in against many matchups in order to fetch it with Trinket. I was expecting tons of these decks in boston so thats why I ran all 4 CotVs instead of just 1 as a tutor target.

At a recent tournament here in quebec I ran swords to plowshares in the side and they were excellent, I think they help in alot of matchups so they're definatly getting a place in the sideboard.
An extra Darkblast, or other random Fish hade like Threads of Disloyalty (so good vs Grunt and Confidant) can be fit in. I've also wanted to try 4 Stifle in sideboard against Storm combo for a while, and they work well with the ressource-denial goal of the deck, but Long isnt a big enough part of the metagame up here to justify their inclusion so I haven't tried them out yet. Jotun grunt is another card I've yet to try in this deck and might be amazing post board in alot of matchups.

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Largent
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« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2006, 03:53:35 pm »

have you tested out leyline of the void any? there has been a lot of buzz about this new dredge deck and it seems like leyline is the best answer to that, not to mention it is pretty useful in a lot of other matchups as well


I plan on testing it soon im not sure how good it will be but ill let you know if i find anything
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« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2006, 06:26:57 pm »

Cunning Wish for Brainfreeze is great even when your not comboing off. Last tourament I played in, I played agaisnt Ichrid and Tormods Crypt there GY in response to them destroying it. He lost 1/3 of his deck and took him basicly the rest of his deck to set back up again. I wish for it during his upkeep, and brainfreeze him and he lost on his draw step, since there were no cards left.
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« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2006, 07:28:06 pm »

Back when I was trying to test Brain Freeze versus Combo, I actually was able to Ancestral Recall them in response to Tendrils, and in response to that I Brain Freezed them for their entire deck except for two cards. That must've been the luckiest moment I have ever experienced, and I was very fortunate when it came down to the exact math.

This of course does not mean Brain Freeze is good sideboard tech for Combo, but at that time, I thought it resulted in an auto-loss when their library was empty, and in this particular time, it won me a game. I am sure that it would have the same effect on Ichorid, as Midknight explained, as well as other decks relying on a certain card to win. When I was still testing Freeze, I casted it in response to Demonic Tutor and managed to RFG their only maindeck Tendrils and Darksteel Colossus. Yay for being extravagantly lucky versus Combo!  Very Happy
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SMac
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« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2006, 12:27:56 am »

Quote
have you tested out leyline of the void any? there has been a lot of buzz about this new dredge deck and it seems like leyline is the best answer to that, not to mention it is pretty useful in a lot of other matchups as well

I don't think leyline has a place in this deck. Its not the kind of card that I want to pay 2BB for,  and 4 CMC sucks when Dark Confidant flips one up. I'm not a big fan of mulliganning to get a hate card that takes 4 slots of your sideboard against a deck that is overhyped IMO. If I expect alot of combo i'd prefer having CotVs or Stifle//Trickbind to an easily bouncable card that doesn't even slow Necro down, and I don't see any other matchups where i'd board into 4 Leylines.

I'm now playing Jotun Grunts in side and they're crazy good, add that to the Trinket-->Tormods, the sideboard Needle and Darkblast, tons of blockers, Wastelands, Salvagers who recur crypts, Aether spellbombs etc, I don't think the Ichorid matchup is very bad even though Ancient Grudge is hella good.
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Largent
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« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2006, 12:56:09 pm »

i havent lost to ichorid yet but that may have been the result of poor piloting on their part. jotun grunt seems interesting, what do you side out to bring him in against those decks and how many?

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« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2006, 12:07:33 pm »

i havent lost to ichorid yet but that may have been the result of poor piloting on their part. jotun grunt seems interesting, what do you side out to bring him in against those decks and how many?
From the Ichorid's point of vue, I can tell you that it's difficult to play against Bob-Berman. If you add Grunt, that's even worst...
If Dredge didn't play out that matchup or test against it, he will probably make lethal mistakes...

Even without errors, the matchup is in favor of Bob-Berman.
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Largent
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« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2006, 02:04:13 pm »

From the Ichorid's point of vue, I can tell you that it's difficult to play against Bob-Berman. If you add Grunt, that's even worst...
If Dredge didn't play out that matchup or test against it, he will probably make lethal mistakes...

Even without errors, the matchup is in favor of Bob-Berman.


thats actuall really good for me because there is so much hype about this new ich deck and i dont think i have time to get in a full testing gauntlet (still trying to figure out how to beat gifts)
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« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2006, 09:50:48 pm »

This is kind of belated but I've been trying Bomberman with Merchant Scrolls and I really like them.  I've switched draw engines to AK-Intuition, also.  Merchant Scrolling into Thirst costs a lot but the 1 mana cheaper for AK has made a difference when mana's tight.  With Spellbomb, Brainstorm, and AK, I haven't had problems drawing into answers.  Merchant Scroll is a swiss-army knife for this deck.  I can tutor counters, bounce, and draw with it.  The list I've been trying is:

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Intuition
3 Brainstorm
4 Merchant Scroll
4 Accumulated Knowledge
3 Auriok Salvagers
4 Trinket Mage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Strip Mine
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Wipe Away
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
5 Moxes
3 Aether Spellbomb

3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Energy Flux
1 Disenchant
1 Seal of Cleansing
3 Disrupt
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crpyt
1 Rebuild/Hurkyl's Recall

I just changed a few cards in JR's list but it plays about the same.  When you have the combo pieces, Scroll is great for getting counters to protect it.  If you just lost a counter war, Scrolling into Recall has always been a huge help.  Sometimes, I'll lose the counter war on purpose so they think they can go for the win.  Then, I'll cast Scroll for Recall with my last counter in hand.  They walk into the counter and I refill my hand.  Sometimes, your opponent has both Chalice and Null Rod out and if you bounce them both, you win.  Scroll can grab Hurkyl's Recall or a Wipe Away for a Colossus or something else game ending.  I felt really vulnerable to other Drain decks post-board so I added B.E.B. for their R.E.B.s.  I never played with Disrupt before but it's been really helpful at stopping other Drain decks development.  When they have a mana light hand and want to Brainstorm for more Disrupt can really hurt.  A lot of times, they don't want to use other counters to protect a Brainstorm. 
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SonataOfTheCathedral
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« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2006, 03:48:47 pm »

I haven't been a fan of the AK Intuition draw engine, while Intuition the card itself can rip the game apart, it tends to be extremely situational.  If you get Intuition countered or don't draw it...AK is the most underwhelming draw engine ever. An AK for one or two is going to get you ripped apart, because it won't do enough. Bomberman is a hungry hungry hippo, it needs to draw lots and lots of cards, or it will lose because it is so underpowered at times. 

Also graveyard hate is annoying as it is, but I usually won't counter it because I have ways around it, but if it kills yours draw engine then you are in trouble. So now you have REBs being annoying as ever plus Tormod's Crypt ends your draw? Probably not worth it. There are other alternatives to AK if you want extra draw, Merchant Scroll being one of them, but there are many more.

It seems as if I am the only one playing Mana Leak anymore as well. It's such a good card in this deck, it holds the fort down vs. Pitch Long and everyone complains about losing to it but I am like 6-0 vs it in tournament play. It's even good against Gifts! They usually try to be the aggressive deck in that match but Mana Leak gives you extra counters which are super important.
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« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2006, 04:18:21 pm »

Sonata - Could you give me some suggestions for an alternative draw engine?  I know Thirst but sometimes it's been too slow for me; not because of the amount of cards it draws but because of how fast I can draw cards at all.  I have Pithing Needle for Tormod's and no matter what draw engine I use, they'll have R.E.B. for it.  After the first 2 or 3 turns, AK becomes an all-star for me.  I'm not trying to argue with you.  I'm just explaining why I changed it.  If you have better options, I'm more than willing to try them out.  I don't actually Intuition for AK all that much.  It's usually for combo pieces but also works well with the AKs.  I like AK because it works well with Merchant Scroll, though.  Thirst off a Scroll costs 5 for 2 cards (or rarely 1).  AK off Scroll costs 4 for 1, 4 for 2, 4 for 3, and 4 for 4.  At the worst, Scroll is cheaper for one less card.  At its best, you get +2 cards for 1 less mana.  AKs not my only draw.  I have Spellbomb, Recall, and Brainstorm for early on.  It's just worked so well for me since I tried it but I can't say anything concrete because I haven't tested opposing decks exhaustively.  Thanks for the reply.
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Evol daN
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« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2006, 08:31:53 pm »

This is not a seriously crazy draw engine… but it draws cards and deals with about every problem I have run into with Bomberman, well every problem but my poor play and Misdirection.

I have found that Repeal is amazing in Bomberman. Seriously, this card as a 3 of is a serious boost in the early game, throwing Lions, Hounds, Sol Rings, Bobs, Welders, Chalice, Rods, and Crypts right back up into peoples faces.

It is especially nice to Repeal a perm against an opponent who has 0 cards in hand and just tapped bazaar… see ya later chalice@0, Planar Void, Welder, or whatever, have a nice afterlife.

Repeal is especially hot with M Mage as you can bounce a perm then Mage him out. Or how about my personal favorite, M Mage something like Drain or Force only to Repeal the Mage after you get one and think they have shuffled their's away!

Last I am not even going to discuss the synergy between LoA, Repeal and moxen… OMG I hit Library!

OMG Repeal, I should not devulge tech.
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« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2006, 11:20:19 pm »

it holds the fort down vs. Pitch Long and everyone complains about losing to it but I am like 6-0 vs it in tournament play.

Except for that one time.

Have you tried Remand?
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SonataOfTheCathedral
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« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2006, 02:49:08 am »

Oh yes, I remember Herbig pwned my ass in the Top 8 of Boston. Savage meandecker you are.
 
There are alternative draw engines to TfK, put your mind to it. I got mine, which is TfK and it is pretty darn solid for me.

On the topic of Remand, Herbig I love the card to bits and pieces, but it doesn't correctly fit the role of the deck. Bomberman has a tough time playing the tempo role, and Remand is the master of tempo cards. I think in Bobherman it has merit, but not in clunky control deck like mine. Try to think as Bomberman as the last viable control deck in the format, it's how I play it and do well with it. Just sometimes you luck out and combo off with it. ; )
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« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2007, 08:51:35 am »

I have a sort of noob question, but this is the open forum anyway so... here goes.

How does bomberman win? I can't see a win condition anywhere aside from beats, and the tournament report usually goes "And then I combo off for the win." I understand the infinite recursion with the Salvagers and black lotus, as well as drawing cards with spellbombs... but how do you kill?
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« Reply #46 on: January 02, 2007, 09:04:20 am »

I have a sort of noob question, but this is the open forum anyway so... here goes.

How does bomberman win? I can't see a win condition anywhere aside from beats, and the tournament report usually goes "And then I combo off for the win." I understand the infinite recursion with the Salvagers and black lotus, as well as drawing cards with spellbombs... but how do you kill?

Casting and recasting explosives for whatever cc you need, blasting away opponent's field. Then attack turn after turn while keeping an hand full of counters. It's not really a finishing combo, just a combo which put yourself in an almost perfect win position.
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« Reply #47 on: January 02, 2007, 10:30:39 am »

...And some builds have a couple of cunning wish's, which can fetch brainfreeze for the win.

But don't underestimate the ability to completely wreck your opponents board, time walk, and sitting with 4-7 counters in hand.

/Zeus
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« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2007, 12:53:27 am »

so i managed to take 3rd day 2 of waterbury with a modified list of bob-bomberman, i think it is a really strong list if anyone wants specific details of the tournament i can write up a small report i just wanted to make sure there was any interest first!


ps. bomberman still rocks
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SonataOfTheCathedral
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« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2007, 01:53:38 pm »

I would love to see a report. I didn't do so hot with Bomberman this weekend, so I would like to see your build and maybe I can get some inspiration on where the deck should go.
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« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2007, 02:42:35 pm »

Congratulations on your finish, it's great to see this deck doing well outside of quebec. I heard you were running maindeck Jotun Grunts and Misdirections, i've wanted to try Mis-D as aditionnal disruption, but the high casting cost (for confidant flips) allways turned me away from it. I've been playing 2 Grunts main and 1 sideboard for a little while now and they've been excellent, especially with the rise in popularity of Ichorid decks.
The list I played in the CQV (Quebec Vintage Championship) finals is posted here: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=31666.0, however it's tuned for our meta which is more aggro-control and alot less combo than in the States.   

I'd definately be interested in seeing your build and a report if you have the time, and as you said, Boberman still rocks.
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Largent
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« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2007, 03:21:03 pm »

okay gentlemen, the report/ and decklist are up in the tournament results thread!! enjoy!!

(here's the link)

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=31759.0
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« Reply #52 on: February 11, 2007, 02:27:24 am »

does anyone even care about this deck anymore? if so i would love to continue discussion on it. thanks.
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« Reply #53 on: February 11, 2007, 03:01:33 am »

I'd love to hear peoples thoughts on the use of Extirpate, since it is a powerful new card in one of the decks main colors
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« Reply #54 on: February 14, 2007, 01:13:33 pm »

does anyone even care about this deck anymore? if so i would love to continue discussion on it. thanks.
Yes I care about this deck. I have been playing it, ever since I seen how well it did up in Rochester, last June.

There are many different versions of Boomerman. I am personally playing blue, white, and red version. What advantages do each one have over the other.

The version i'm playing, has access to what I think is a very strong sb. The main deck doesnt really gain much from red other than Pyrite Spellbomb and Cunning Wish for a red sb Instant. Here are the red sb cards I choose to run.

2 Red Elemental Blast     So good agaisnt more than half of the field.
1 Pyroblast                    Run both to get around Meddling Mages.   
3 Flametongue Kavu      This is probably the best anwser to fish.
1 Rack and Ruin             Wish target, and heavy artifact base deck.

I might as well show you the rest of my sb. Since I already went over half of it.

1 Disenchant                 Wish Target
2 Seal of Cleansing         Null Rod, Challise, Oath, etc.
1 Sword to Plowshares   Wish Target
1 Echoing Truth            Wish Target agaisnt Empty the Warrens
1 Fact or Fiction            Wish Target, sb this in agaisnt control
1 Tormods Crypt            Graveyard hate at its best
1 Engineered Explostive  Empty the Warrens tokens go bye bye

Let me go over, what I think are the staples to this deck.

3 Auriok Salvagers         Combo piece, put opt on a clock, returns artifacts.
1 Ancestral Recall          Best card drawing spell, in the game!
1 Time Walk                Combo off drawing out the deck, play all creatures then take an extra turn
4 Brainstrom                Cheap card drawing spell. Works great with fetches and Trinket Mages.
4 Force of Will              Best counterspell in the game.
4 Mana Drain                Drain mana works great with Salvagers, Trinket Mages, Thrist, and Wishes.
4 Trinket Mage             2/2 beater + tutors up any artifact in my deck
7 Moxes-Lotus-Sol Ring   Mana acceleration + combo piece.
1 Tormod's Crypt          Tutor target, way to many decks use the graveyard.
1 Explostives                Tutor target, deals with Empty the Warrens, I hate that card.
1 Pithing Needle            Stops Wastedlands, Bazaar, Belcher, Goblin Welders, and whatever else
2 Aether Spellbomb       Stops Tinker Colossus, bounces Trinket Mages, replay to search for artifact
                                  Tricks with combat damage on the stack. Combo piece.
1 Pyrite Spellbomb         A must if you decide to splash red. Kills Welders, Confidents, Meddling
                                  Mages, Shamans, and more!!
16 Lands                      Some Version run 17, I would like to try to fit another one in but its hard
                                  I run 5 fetch lands, 3 Tundra, 3 Volcanic Island, 3 Island, 1 Library, 1 Acad


These are cards that im not completly sold on but I run in my version.

4 Thirst for Knowledge   I have dout about this. I want my moxes in play not my gy. Theres got
                                  to be a better card drawing spell out there?
3 Mana Leak                 Very strong at the beginning, but sometimes turns into a dead card,
                                  you can still pitch it to Force of Will, this deck needs the extra counters,
                                  since it doesn't run as many hate cards as fish has.
2 Cunning Wish             Some perfer Merchant Scroll, over Wish. Which one is better???
1 Sensi's Divining Top    Adds another artifact to pitch, works well with fetches and Trinket Mage

Here are some cards I thought about playing in the main deck.

Strip Mine                     Destroys any land
Artifact Lands                So I don't have to pitch my moxes, to Thrist for Knowledge.
Merchant Scroll              Play this over the Cunning Wish
Repeal                          Cantrips, Merchant Scroll target deals with Null Rod and Chalise for a turn
Fact or Fiction                More card drawing

Heres are some cards I thought about playing in the sb.

Ormi's Chant                  Wish Target
Misdirection                   Wish Target
Jotun Grunts                  Massive Creature for two mana, Eats up gy
Wipe Away                    Split second bounce Wish Target
Empty the Warens          Storm, hard to counter
Trick Bind                      Wish Target
Meddling Mage                I thought about it, but theres no room for it.

The only main disavantage, I see from the white blue is the mana base is alittle less stable. With Wastedlands decks on the decline. I Think this version is better.

Looking at the blue, white, black version,you gain Demonic Tutor, Yawgmoths Will, Nights Whisper, Skeletal Scrying, and Duress. I have not yet tested this version. I think this version looks really strong. Maybe run the Nights Whispers, over the Thrist for Knowledge. The only problem I see with that is its a sorcery.

I notice when I play this deck, I play it more like a control deck, than a control combo deck. I think thats my biggest weakness, in playing this deck. Boomerman is very forgiven, I made tons of mistakes playing it in games, and it still won me the game.

I will go over some of the mistakes, I have made. So you don't do the same.

I was playing agaisnt Gifts, I had a Explostives@ zero. My opt and I both had a Tormod's Crypt on the board. I went to blow the Explostives and said in response i'll Crypt you. Since my opt never blow his Crypt and never responced with a spell or ablility, The Priority never got pass back to me. For it being my turn I was the active player, so I choose to do something and if not I have to pass the Priority to my opt. What I should have done was blow the Tormod's Crypt first then blow the Explostives.

When I was playing in the top 8 agaisnt Gifts, The second game I was able to combo off, but not knowing if it would work or not, I justplay the control game, outdrawing my opt. My board had
Explostives @ zero,  Auriok Salvagers, Black Lotus, Spellbomb and plenty of other mana. My Opt had a Tormods Crypt on the board. What I should have done was sac the Lotus to add 3 White. If my opt try to remove my Lotus from the game return it to my hand in response with the Salvager. Then with Lotus back in my hand, I should have blew the explostives, lossing nothing valueble in my gy.

My mind that day, was already drain and I wasn't thinking right. I still won the game anyways. Another way I could have done it was, blow the explostives while the lotus was in play. My opt would have had to sac the Tormods Crypt before all the zero mana artifacts would have been put into the gy. But the way I explain it the first way is the best way, because it also gives me, three mana floating with the lotus. I had in my mind that something wasnt going to work and my opt had a trickery, I was confused.

I hope you enjoyed my info. If you have any tips or like to share anything about this deck, please post it. I was a bit board today since I didn't go to work because of the icy roads.
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« Reply #55 on: February 14, 2007, 11:14:12 pm »

does anyone even care about this deck anymore? if so i would love to continue discussion on it. thanks.
Yes I care about this deck. I have been playing it, ever since I seen how well it did up in Rochester, last June.

There are many different versions of Boomerman. I am personally playing blue, white, and red version. What advantages do each one have over the other.

The version i'm playing, has access to what I think is a very strong sb. The main deck doesnt really gain much from red other than Pyrite Spellbomb and Cunning Wish for a red sb Instant. Here are the red sb cards I choose to run.

2 Red Elemental Blast     So good agaisnt more than half of the field.
1 Pyroblast                    Run both to get around Meddling Mages.   
3 Flametongue Kavu      This is probably the best anwser to fish.
1 Rack and Ruin             Wish target, and heavy artifact base deck.

I might as well show you the rest of my sb. Since I already went over half of it.

1 Disenchant                 Wish Target
2 Seal of Cleansing         Null Rod, Challise, Oath, etc.
1 Sword to Plowshares   Wish Target
1 Echoing Truth            Wish Target agaisnt Empty the Warrens
1 Fact or Fiction            Wish Target, sb this in agaisnt control
1 Tormods Crypt            Graveyard hate at its best
1 Engineered Explostive  Empty the Warrens tokens go bye bye

Let me go over, what I think are the staples to this deck.

3 Auriok Salvagers         Combo piece, put opt on a clock, returns artifacts.
1 Ancestral Recall          Best card drawing spell, in the game!
1 Time Walk                Combo off drawing out the deck, play all creatures then take an extra turn
4 Brainstrom                Cheap card drawing spell. Works great with fetches and Trinket Mages.
4 Force of Will              Best counterspell in the game.
4 Mana Drain                Drain mana works great with Salvagers, Trinket Mages, Thrist, and Wishes.
4 Trinket Mage             2/2 beater + tutors up any artifact in my deck
7 Moxes-Lotus-Sol Ring   Mana acceleration + combo piece.
1 Tormod's Crypt          Tutor target, way to many decks use the graveyard.
1 Explostives                Tutor target, deals with Empty the Warrens, I hate that card.
1 Pithing Needle            Stops Wastedlands, Bazaar, Belcher, Goblin Welders, and whatever else
2 Aether Spellbomb       Stops Tinker Colossus, bounces Trinket Mages, replay to search for artifact
                                  Tricks with combat damage on the stack. Combo piece.
1 Pyrite Spellbomb         A must if you decide to splash red. Kills Welders, Confidents, Meddling
                                  Mages, Shamans, and more!!
16 Lands                      Some Version run 17, I would like to try to fit another one in but its hard
                                  I run 5 fetch lands, 3 Tundra, 3 Volcanic Island, 3 Island, 1 Library, 1 Acad


These are cards that im not completly sold on but I run in my version.

4 Thirst for Knowledge   I have dout about this. I want my moxes in play not my gy. Theres got
                                  to be a better card drawing spell out there?
3 Mana Leak                 Very strong at the beginning, but sometimes turns into a dead card,
                                  you can still pitch it to Force of Will, this deck needs the extra counters,
                                  since it doesn't run as many hate cards as fish has.
2 Cunning Wish             Some perfer Merchant Scroll, over Wish. Which one is better???
1 Sensi's Divining Top    Adds another artifact to pitch, works well with fetches and Trinket Mage

Here are some cards I thought about playing in the main deck.

Strip Mine                     Destroys any land
Artifact Lands                So I don't have to pitch my moxes, to Thrist for Knowledge.
Merchant Scroll              Play this over the Cunning Wish
Repeal                          Cantrips, Merchant Scroll target deals with Null Rod and Chalise for a turn
Fact or Fiction                More card drawing

Heres are some cards I thought about playing in the sb.

Ormi's Chant                  Wish Target
Misdirection                   Wish Target
Jotun Grunts                  Massive Creature for two mana, Eats up gy
Wipe Away                    Split second bounce Wish Target
Empty the Warens          Storm, hard to counter
Trick Bind                      Wish Target
Meddling Mage                I thought about it, but theres no room for it.

The only main disavantage, I see from the white blue is the mana base is alittle less stable. With Wastedlands decks on the decline. I Think this version is better.

Looking at the blue, white, black version,you gain Demonic Tutor, Yawgmoths Will, Nights Whisper, Skeletal Scrying, and Duress. I have not yet tested this version. I think this version looks really strong. Maybe run the Nights Whispers, over the Thrist for Knowledge. The only problem I see with that is its a sorcery.

I notice when I play this deck, I play it more like a control deck, than a control combo deck. I think thats my biggest weakness, in playing this deck. Boomerman is very forgiven, I made tons of mistakes playing it in games, and it still won me the game.

I will go over some of the mistakes, I have made. So you don't do the same.

I was playing agaisnt Gifts, I had a Explostives@ zero. My opt and I both had a Tormod's Crypt on the board. I went to blow the Explostives and said in response i'll Crypt you. Since my opt never blow his Crypt and never responced with a spell or ablility, The Priority never got pass back to me. For it being my turn I was the active player, so I choose to do something and if not I have to pass the Priority to my opt. What I should have done was blow the Tormod's Crypt first then blow the Explostives.

When I was playing in the top 8 agaisnt Gifts, The second game I was able to combo off, but not knowing if it would work or not, I justplay the control game, outdrawing my opt. My board had
Explostives @ zero,  Auriok Salvagers, Black Lotus, Spellbomb and plenty of other mana. My Opt had a Tormods Crypt on the board. What I should have done was sac the Lotus to add 3 White. If my opt try to remove my Lotus from the game return it to my hand in response with the Salvager. Then with Lotus back in my hand, I should have blew the explostives, lossing nothing valueble in my gy.

My mind that day, was already drain and I wasn't thinking right. I still won the game anyways. Another way I could have done it was, blow the explostives while the lotus was in play. My opt would have had to sac the Tormods Crypt before all the zero mana artifacts would have been put into the gy. But the way I explain it the first way is the best way, because it also gives me, three mana floating with the lotus. I had in my mind that something wasnt going to work and my opt had a trickery, I was confused.

I hope you enjoyed my info. If you have any tips or like to share anything about this deck, please post it. I was a bit board today since I didn't go to work because of the icy roads.

First, I think the black is much, much stronger than the red in this deck. The cards it gives you are much stronger in Scrying, Will, Confidant (which you didn't even mention for some reason...) and especially Duress. Duress is insane right now, and it helps out your combo matchup which isn't exactly spectacular. You shouldn't need the red at all. The REBs/Pyros are easiliy replaced by the Duresses. The FTKs are unnecessary against Fish. It's hardly played, and you already have a good matchup anyway. The Rack and Ruin is unnecessary and can be replaced with some sort of bounce. This gives you the Duresses out of the 'board in black, and it gives you Confidant in the main. Confidant is good against everything in the format, save combo.

Additionally, I can't believe you don't like Thirst in this deck... This deck is in no way as mana hungry as some of the other Combo/Control decks (Read: Gifts/Slaver) and can usually afford to pitch Moxen. Additionally, you rarely even need to pitch Moxen with all of the random utility cards the deck runs, and even if you do have to pitch something important, you have Salvagers to get it back! How broken is that?! Anyway, there should always be something to pitch.This deck supports Thirst better than any other deck ever has, including Control Slaver. (Although it does occasionally have more broken plays coming from CS, the artifacts they run to support it cost so much mana that they clog your hand when you don't have Thirst. The artifacts in this deck are at least always somewhat useful) There is no way I would ever run a Bomberman list without running the full set of Thirsts.
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SonataOfTheCathedral
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« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2007, 01:05:01 am »

You can play AK Intuition over TFK, but I think it is a bit underwhelming. I was so draw hungry with this deck I needed Black for Skeletal Scrying, so I can stay on top of my opponents game. Duress and Massacre proved worthy as sideboard slots.
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« Reply #57 on: February 15, 2007, 12:49:02 pm »

Is the work being done now with Bob-berman trying to turn the deck to be more controlling.  My friend Largent who has had success with the deck plays it more like a fish deck than its UW equivalent.  The traditional UW build is certainly a control deck because it runs Drains, Leaks, Forces etc. and just happens to run 7 or so creatures.  The UWb build is more content to just play creatures and disrupt the opponent with Duress, Tormod's, Chalice, Force, and so on.  Unlike other fish builds it has the added bonus of being to just combo out which gives it more resilency against hate like Empty the Warrens, not mention EE has an option.  I'd like to see the list you are testing Elias because if your running Thirst + Skeletal Scrying are you also running drains to support them.  It seems like a cool idea to have traditional Bomberman splashing black for MD Confidant and sideboard options.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2007, 12:51:58 pm by Gekoratel » Logged
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« Reply #58 on: February 15, 2007, 08:16:46 pm »

I want to try to find time, for testing the black version. Its hard because theres, not many Vintage players in my area and I hate testing on Magic Workstation.

I believe it depends on the match-up, when compairing Duress to Red Elemental Blast. I see problems with both of them. Duress is better agaisnt storm decks. REB is better against blue control decks. So I think its more of a meta game call. In certain decks, I think both are equal like control combo (Gifts). That deck is Mono Blue except a few black and red cards, but does kill with storm. It also runs 4 brainstorms. If a good gifts player knows your playing Duress, there try to hold back there Brainstorm. If they have something in there hand, they don't want you to take.

Problems I have with Duress.

Only hits a card in there hand, usually there respond to hide there best cards, with a Brainstorm. Duress is a sorcery, if they play there bomb the same turn they draw it, Duress does nothing. It can't touch creatures or land, not a big factor, but sometimes it matters.

What I love about Duress.

It removes problem cards, that counters have trouble dealing with (STORM & SPLIT SECOND). Very good against Grim-Combo decks. You see there entire hand. Baits out counters, card drawing, and etc.

Problems I have with REB.

Only counters a blue spell. Doesn't stop storm or split second.

What I love about REB.

Best card agaisnt blue control decks. Helps win the counter war. One mana counterspell. Helps stop your spells from being counter.

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SonataOfTheCathedral
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« Reply #59 on: February 16, 2007, 09:57:08 am »

Don't be afraid to FoW a Brainstorm when playing Duress. I do it whenever necessary. Granted you are going down a card, but you still get the best card in their hand.
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