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Author Topic: [Results] Kettering Legacy Tournament T8 and Commentary  (Read 3139 times)
CapitanJon
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« on: September 11, 2006, 09:12:43 pm »

The Breakdown of the Kettering Lotus tournament T8, brought to you by Jon Wilkerson and Phil Cape:


Here are the deck lists in order of Finish:

Winning Decklists:

Jon Wilkerson(CapitanJon)
Erayo Affinity

//Artifact Creatures//
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Frogmite
3 Myr Enforcer
3 Ornithopter

//Other Creatures//
4 Disciple of the Vault
3 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant

//Artifacts//
4 Cranial Plating
4 Aether Vial
1 Tormod's Crypt

//Other Spells//
4 Thoughtcast
2 Repeal

//Artifact Mana//
4 Lotus Petal
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers

//Other Land//
3 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Glimmervoid

//Sideboard//
4 Duress
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Darkblast
3 Engineered Plague
2 Moriok Rigger


Phil Cape
Ravager Affinity

//Artifact Creatures//
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer

//Other Creatures//
4 Disciple of the Vault
3 Somber Hovergard
2 Atog

//Artifacts//
4 Chromatic Sphere
3 Cranial Plating
2 Tormod's Crypt

//Other Spells//
4 Thoughtcast

//Artifact Mana//
3 Lotus Petal
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Great Furnace

//Other Land//
3 Blinkmoth Nexus

//Sideboard//
4 Shrapnel Blast
3 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Darkblast


These cards are cards we agree on for obvious reasons:

Ravager
Disciple
Worker
Frogmite
Thoughtcast
Citadel
Seat
Vault
Nexus

These cards are where we show variations in the number of cards:

Lotus Petal

Phil: I only played three because i played a bunch more land than Jon, lotus petal is best when you have a bunch of cards that say "Affinity for Artifacts". Allso, I didn't want to cut the third blinkmoth nexus and i wasn't prepared to cut an artifact land.
Jon: I wanted more zero drop artifacts to maximize Erayo and lotus petal plus repeal is a combo.

Cranial Plating

Jon: There were 6 flying creatures in my deck, and I wanted to maximize plating hits.
Phil: I think Cranial Plating makes it possible for them to eat my tempo when invest 3 mana in an attack that can be thwarted by a one mana spell.  Its obviously stil good at killing people, but drawing two can sometimes leave you threatless.

Myr Enforcer

Jon: Because i play Erayo I wanted some cheaper spells so that i could play more spells per turn  (See- Ornithopter).
Phil: I wanted to push the aggro decks around with big creatures.

Tormod's Crypt

Phil: Every time i played somebody at the Pando Tourney I sided in three--i settled on two main to minimize the number of potentilly dead cards in my main deck.
Jon: I wanted another zero drop and tormod's crypt seemed pretty good against the format, I didn't play more because i Expected a more Aggro Meta.

These are cards the we did not have in common:


Aether Vial

Jon: Vial seems like one of the most powerfull cards in the archtype, it allows me to keep land light hands (you'll notice that i only play 16 lands and 4 lotus petals).  I had 7 colorless mana sources in my deck so vial helped to smooth out the Disciple and Erayo drops.  It helped once in the tournament with keeping it a zero counters and dropping an ornithopter in front of a goblin lackey.

Phil: I only have 14 creatures that i can ever play off it, and you want to play all of hose creatures early, so playing a turn one vial is the same as playing a turn one worker in terms of making your affinity spells better.

Erayo, Soratami Ascendant

Phil: I tested Erayo for a while, but it always made me hold my affinity cards for an extra turn so I eventually replaced it with somber hovergaurd.
Jon: I play a little slower than Phil, so I like to keep cards in my hand while Phil likes to play out his hand.

Ornithopter

Jon: Erayo... Cranial Plating... Nuf said.
Phil: I wanted my cards to do something on their own, i played somber hovergard so that i still had the flyer for cranial plating though.

Glimmervoid

Phil: I didn't play Glimmervoid because it isn't an ancient tomb and it doesn't turn into a 1/1 flyer
Jon: I liked being able to play BB to attach Cranial Plating to one of my flyers for blocking tricks

Somber Hovergard

Jon: Phil used Affinity Spells more than I did, I played ornithopter because it was an artifact and Somber Hovergard
Phil: It's 3/2 Flyer for U, it doesn't die to kataki, serenity, and its very expensive to P. Diddy away

Atog

Phil: I wanted another creature that survives Kataki and Serenity, and it's good against red decks, it can also give you the quick goldfish you need vs non-interactive combo.    Plus i needed something to do with the Great Furnaces.   Wink
Jon: I cut the red from the deck, which I later regretted because i would have loved shrapnel blast in the board

Chromatic Sphere:

Jon: I felt that with my two colored mana base, that chromatic sphere wasn't needed
Phil:  I have a lot of colored spells (relatively), and I wanted another cheap artifact to raise the affinity count-- the cantrip was important for increasing my chances of seeing my unfair cards.

3rd and 4th Place:

Richard Frankelin
UBW Fish

//Creatures//
4 Dark Confidant
4 Meddling Mage
3 Joten Grunt
3 Mother of Runes

//Other Spells//
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
1 Counterbalance
4 Swords to Powshares
2 Duress
2 Stifle
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Vindicate
4 Brainstorm
4 Serum Visions

//Land//
1 Plains
4 Underground Sea
4 Tundra
3 Wasteland
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand

//Sideboard//
3 Null Rod
3 Serenity
3 Engineered Plague
3 Perish
3 Hydroblast

Phil: Serum Visions Seems awful, as does counterbalance, mother of runes, and running two duress.  If your plan is  disrupting their mana, commit to that plan. If your plan is to attack their hand, commit to that.  Don't play sub par cards just to fill your curve--bend our curve to accommodate better cards.  Aether vial is a good one drop that advances your plan.  Chrome Mox is another quality option to allow you to skip the one drops entirely. I'm not even sold on brainstorms--which is sacrilege, i know.  I think the deck needs more creatures and more vindicates, I don't really like the Dazes, i would like to see Remand or Memory Lapse instead. Trinket Mage is an intersting option that opens up a lot of good cards, like cursed scroll ( At this point Paul Nicolo says"//SARCASM// Needs more Bonesplitter..." Phil Followed with "I'll kill you"...) Either Phyrexian Furnace or Tormod's Crypt, Pithing Needle, and Engineered Explosives and it gets you a Top which is a combo with fetchlands.

Jon: I can't see why you would play Counterbalance when the only top manipulating cards are brainstorm and serum visions, also Mother of Runes doesn't seem to be doing what she is good at, which is protecting a hoard of creatures (there is only 14 creatures in this deck).


Stephen Bogemes
Not My Goblins

//Creatures//
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
3 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

//Other Spells//
4 AEther Vial
3 Swords to Plowshares

//Land//
4 Wasteland
3 Rishidan Port
4 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Plateau
4 Bloodstained Mire

//Sideboard//
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Disenchant
2 Armageddon
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast

Jon: In a format with so many creatures i can't see playing less than 4 Gempalm Incinerator, and I heard you say that you took out Kiki-Jiki out in every game two... do you think there's a reason for that.  Pyrokines owned me in game two, but when i had ravager on the board with two 4/4's it didn't do what you wanted it to.  Playing the white version is th absolute correct decision hands down, only because Swords to Plowshares is amazing.

Phil: I wonder about the 3 Incinenerator, but with swords it may be correct.  I don't think that Tormod's Crypt is better than Pyrostatic Pillar in th combo match-up. Sharpshooter looks worse without prospector in the deck but seems fine anyway.  Pyrokinesis is a beating out of the board. It's just goblins, it does what it does and its a pretty much given as to whats in the list at this point.


5th - 8th Place:

5th Place goes to CancerStix--
UGW Gro

Lands-18
4 Tundra
4 Trops
4 Windswept
3 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest

Trips-13
4 Brainstorm
4 Serum Visions
3 Portent
2 Mental Note

Beats-12
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Quirion Dryad
3 Meddling Mage
1 Mystic Enforcer

Control Elements-17
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Pithing Needle
1 Disenchant
1 Naturalize ( This should have been another Disenchant…we all do dumb things sometimes)

Sideboard
2 Hydroblast
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Worship
3 Armageddon (the only card I never boarded in…High Tide combo was a no show)
1 Pithing Needle
1 Meddling Mage
1 Mystic Enforcer
3 Jotun Grunt
Kyle Boggemes (Michigan State Champion)
Badfinity

//Maindeck//
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Atog
2 Berserk
4 Frogmite
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Myr Enforcer
2 Pithing Needle
3 Cranial Plating
4 AEther Vial
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Worker
3 Ornithopter
2 Mishera's Factory
4 Vault of Whispers
1 Glimmervoid
4 Great Furnace
4 Tree of Tales
4 Darksteel Citadel

//Sideboard//
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Engineered Plague
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Naturalize
2 Pithing Needle

At this point I would like to point out that Kyle Boggemes (our current Michigan State Champion and T8' Finisher of the very first Legacy Worlds) has very sloppy handwriting and misspelled most of his deck registration sheet.  He also owes me 4 Tormod's Crypt.

Phil: Hey what's a thoughtcast?  And why would you ever take it out?  I like the explosiveness of a berserk for the purpose of the combo matchups, but it seems bad against removal spells.  I also dislike his MD needles, as i often found them without good targets. Thus, they moved to the sideboard.  Factory is worse than Nexus, in my opinion, as the flying is often relevant. His Sb seemed OK, but it probably had too may colored cards in it, diluting your game plan when you bring in several.  Plague in particular seems unnecessary, as goblins is a great match-up for you without it. 

Jon: While testing the deck i wanted berserk but when i went down to 2 colors i couldn't play them.  Phil and I both agree on the nexus over the factory. I can't wrap my mind around playing an affinity deck without playing thoughtcast.


Nate Hulley
Rg Goblins

//Maindeck//
4 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Skirk Prospector
3 Siege Gang Commander
4 Aether Vial
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Lackey
3 Wasteland
3 Rishidan Port
2 Stomping Grounds
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
6 Mountain

//Sideboard//
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Tranquil Domain
3 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast

Jon: I saw Goblin Tinkerer so some great things.  IMO this is a much better goblin build because the number of gempalms is correct and the Sharpshooter+Prospecter combo is great especially with 3 Siege-Gang Commander.  Phil and I were talking and we think that goblins in Legacy could be Mono Red and be much more explosive and rely less on a splash for swords, or tranquil domain, to keep the mana base stable.

Phil: First of all, this guy probably shouldn't have top8ed, not because of anything he did, but rather because i watched my Friend playing my RDW completely misunderstand his sideboard plan and spend over ten turns scrolling and double scrolling with an ensnaring bridge in play... except he kept hitting irrelevant monsters rather than his opponent, who was at 11.  Finally, he drew a siege gang commander and murdered him across the bridge.  Then he got a good draw g3 and bashed. As to his list, i cant understand the 3/3 waste/port split.  One has got to be better than the other, and i suspect that less than four wastelands is a mistake.  I guess tranquil domain  from the board is there to beat the hate, but i would rather just try and run through it than add another color. At least twice i saw stomping grounds be relevantly worse than taiga, so obviously that would've helped. His goblin selection seems fine, but i would probably put in a bullet breaker for the mirror, like Pyromancer or King.

Nam Tran
RGSA

//Maindeck//
4 Ravenous Baloth
4 Flametongue Kavu
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Eternal Witness
3 Troll Ascetic
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Anger
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Viridian Zealot
4 Survival of the Fittest
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
12 Forest
2 Mountain

//Sideboard//
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Pyroclasm
3 Tangle
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Genesis

Phil: I can't possibly believe that 4 FtKs is correct maindeck, regardless of how aggressive this format appears to be.  I also can't see why this deck would not play another color, as it is very easy to do and gives you a lot of power.  Wastelands aren't a good enough reason, as a green deck should not care much about it, given its ability to accelerate mana.  I also wonder abut the sideboard pyroclasms--i guess no one will ever see them coming, as they kill most of your men too.  Tangle seems quite janky against aggro- your game plan doesn't appear to be tempoing them out but rather to gain incremental card advantage off cip guys.  Tangle buys you a little time, but it doesn't really solve any problems or further your own plan.  Pillar MD might be OK, but it seems like a clear cut sideboard card.  I would rather play something that fit my engine to disrupt combo decks. 

Jon: I never really got a chance to watch this deck in action, so I can't really say much...  I cant imagine that wastelands are good enough not to run black for Recurring Nightmare, and P-Diddy from the board to kill affinity.  I'd also like to add more squee's.


Props:
RIW Hobbies.
Pam Willoughby, for being awesome.
Disciple of the Vault and Arcbound Ravager, for being unfair.
The Michigan Legacy community, for embracing us.
John Scamihorn and Brandon Adams, for putting the Event together. 
The Store that let us trade Marit Lage tokens for duals straight up.
Kettering University for hosting the event.
Brian De-Mars for helping us test and allowing us to bask in his awesome presence.  Viva la scarf!
Paul Nicolo for getting us into this format, and for pushing that Drunk guy at Wheat and Rye when he was talking shit. 
John Scamihorn, for guiding me to the tournament, lending Brian De-Mars cards, and playing the 43 land deck.  'cause that deck's sweet.
RIW Hobbies.
SpencerforHire, for having insight into an archetype that is not yet ready for the format.
Cancerstix, for being a leader in the legacy community, and also for giving De-Mars cigarettes so i didn't have to. 
Jacob Gillham, for lending Wilkerson cards.
KrzyMoose, for kissing my ass hard in his tourney report. 

Slops: 
Chrysler ave, for having a crane on it instead of a bridge.
Josh Wyludka, for pointing 130245483619746397 points of burn at his opponents creatures with active Ensnaring Bridge. 
That one guy who yelled fuck 961984369 times in one sentence.  Dude, chill.....
That drunk guy at Wheat and Rye, as well as the clowns with penis balloons at same... it made everything very surreal.
Ari Lax.
Dennis Barger.
Onelovemachine, for not coming with. 
"Dirty" Di Shi.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2006, 06:37:53 pm by Bardo » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2006, 11:47:33 pm »

It was kind of funny because the TO gave us the decklists and we were looking over them while we were drinking at the bar after the event.

The UBW Fish deck was running one random copy of Counterbalance.  I was a bit tipsy at the time I was looking at the list, and the last slot in the decklist was 1 Counterspell, and then the Counterspell was crossed off and Counterbalance was written in its place.  I thought it was the most random thing ever.  I strictly remember saying:

"Lets randomly play Mother of Runes, 2 Stifle, 2 Duress, and to top off the randomness 1 Counterspell.... No wait, not random enough, 1 COUNTERBALANCE to combo with my Brainstorms!!!"

I mean the deck was obviously good, it made top eight, but I thought the one Counterbalace was the most random thing ever.
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« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2006, 11:54:17 pm »

It was kind of funny because the TO gave us the decklists and we were looking over them while we were drinking at the bar after the event.

The UBW Fish deck was running one random copy of Counterbalance.  I was a bit tipsy at the time I was looking at the list, and the last slot in the decklist was 1 Counterspell, and then the Counterspell was crossed off and Counterbalance was written in its place.  I thought it was the most random thing ever.  I strictly remember saying:

"Lets randomly play Mother of Runes, 2 Stifle, 2 Duress, and to top off the randomness 1 Counterspell.... No wait, not random enough, 1 COUNTERBALANCE to combo with my Brainstorms!!!"

I mean the deck was obviously good, it made top eight, but I thought the one Counterbalace was the most random thing ever.

Thank you.  We try.

The reason we thought Counterbalance would be better is because of the lowish curve on the deck combined with the fact that it was a more solid card than counterspell for the purpose of a single copy...  And I just wanted to see fish go crazy with Counterbalance.  Whether the card in specific was good enough damn that list did something right.
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« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2006, 11:57:23 pm »

Wow, this is pretty fun.  T8 lists will get into SCG whenever.

Oh man, Erayo?  Fucking hate that card; it wrecks so many strategies so hardcore.  That might be better than something random and bad in Affinity, since it makes it hard to generate a critical mass of removal.  Not sure if it's better than just beating down though.
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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2006, 10:17:58 am »

Nate (the Goblins player) is a local player who I helped make his deck the night before the tournament. I offered to lend him the 4th Port, 4th Waste, and the 2 Taigas but he wouldn't take them.

Tranquil Domain comes from my testing and the testing of a lot of other people. Rifter/Wombat (R/W Control and Mono-white Control), Confinement, and Angel Stax didn't show, but Rifter and Confinement are popular enough decks that auto-losing to their MD enchantments is bad. Also, without any sort of Dralnu's Crusade/Goblin Kings/etc plan (which I think hurts the deck), you run the risk of being ran right out of the game with Engineered Plague. Tranquil Domain is simply the catch-all that turns a lot of bad matchups that go into late game into good matchups that don't hit late game very often.

With 8 fetches and 6 basics, there is absolutely no reason why your manabase should be unstable. The only decks that can abuse running nonbasics to begin with are Stax and 43Land builds, but those don't show up much. 2 Taiga simply do not destablize the manabase if only fetched/played when needed. This deck basically is mono-red.

I'd like to note the sideboard, because I don't think Nate had a chance to truely show it off. It's designed to fix the combo matchup while still providing general hate for Threshold. The mirror was neglected, which I think should be addressed either MD or in the Tranquil Domain spot. At a larger event, I would expect more combo to be at the top tables. The 4/4/4/3 Chalice/Crypt/REB/x board gives Goblins the extra turn or so it needs to race the combo FT of 3/4.

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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2006, 10:21:48 am »

Quote
I thought the one Counterbalace was the most random thing ever.

It is the most random thing ever.  It was originally a Counterspell, but we basically decided while Counterspell can only counter one threat, Counterbalance can counter ten.  Thus, because I only needed to fill one slot, Counterbalance got it.

Also, the 2/2 Duress/Stifle split aren't that random, and they worked out pretty well.

Mother of Runes is also a house in the format, but perhaps not in that particular tournament, as most of the threats I encountered were Artifacts.  She kicks Goblins' ass, though.

Running AEther Vial and some of the other changes Phil suggests would change the deck quite a bit.  I found this build to work for me.
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« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2006, 09:45:02 am »

That was so savage at the bar when Fishalo got all up in that dude's face for messing with Josh Ludka.  I would never have expected that to happen, Fishalo is always so chill;  but if you mess with his friends he turns into a fing beast!
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« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2006, 12:36:11 pm »

Quote
Paul Nicolo for getting us into this format, and for pushing that Drunk guy at Wheat and Rye when he was talking shit.
  Whoa!  I would have never guessed that Paul would do something like that!  Mad props Paul.  Standing up for your friends is very honorable. 
A long time ago, I could have used some friends like that.  I got pounded in the back of the head by some dude I had never even met before.  The scar is still there.  My 2 friends and my brother stood there watching, doing nothing, while I was faced off with this dude and two of his buddies.  That was the only fight I ever remember losing.  Yes, an ambulance was required.
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« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2006, 02:37:43 pm »

@CancerStix:

I would have your back in a fight

@Liek

You were completly savage, even if you did get us kicked out of the bar!
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« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2006, 03:59:14 pm »

I'd have your back in a bar fight Cancerstix.  Unfortunately I have the broken arm, so we'd probably both just get out asses kicked.  But, nonetheless, it'd be on.
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« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2006, 11:24:50 pm »

It may or may not had been a showdown.

But the outcome was indeed a trip to another restaurant.
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« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2006, 05:11:24 pm »

Way to go Phil and Jon.  I  I really wanted to play in the flint tourney but couldn't beceause of other responsibilities.  Nice post by the way.  You should definitely think about writing more tournament reports this way.  RIW members win enough tournaments so that shouldnt be a problem.

Congrats on your win once again.

Vivek
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