SCG P9 in November!!!!

[Storm]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/bd245

In November, we'll be giving two complete sets of the "Power Nine" away when the final back-to-back Star City "Power Nine" Vintage weekend of 2006 is held right here at the new Star City Game Center. That actually hadn't been announced yet... so... well... there you go.

[Moxlotus]

Sweet.  I was afraid there would be no vintage action until like March.  This will keep people talking and playing.

[M.Solymossy]

Possibly another unsuccessful event? (75 day two of the most hyped SCG yet?).

Well, I just shat on my hopes of them pulling a chicago before 07. 

[outpost1]

"Possibly another unsuccessful event? (75 day two of the most hyped SCG yet?). Well, I just shat on my hopes of them pulling a chicago before 07."

1) We had around 120 players on D1 and around 75 players on D2, but I don't define "success" solely on attendance. Yes, the attendance numbers were below expected, but I consider the event to have been quite successful overall. I thank everyone who came out to play, and hope everyone had fun.

2) One way or another, we will be returning to Chicago in early '07.

Best wishes,
 
Pete Hoefling
President, Star City Events
Wizards of the Coast Premier Event Organizer - Virginia and West Virginia
www.starcitygames.com
 
Star City Events
5728 Williamson Rd N.W.
Roanoke, VA 24012
ph:(540)767-GAME (4263)
fax:(540)265-1080
e-mail: events@starcitygames.com
 
For a complete listing of our upcoming Magic: the Gathering Premier events, please visit:
http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=15

[Komatteru]

One way or another, we will be returning to Chicago in early '07.

Yatta!!

[M.Solymossy]

Hopefully MULTIPLE times

[Dxfiler]

Yes, the attendance numbers were below expected, but I consider the event to have been quite successful overall.

I mean this respectfully Pete...

Had you been there, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't consider this weekend a success, even if you did come out ahead financially.

I don't know where to start. 

The venue, as I knew coming in... was terrible.  I've been to just about every tourney venue in New England over a span of twelve years.  This place ranks as one of the absolute worst.  The venue used to have air conidtioning, but for some unjustifiable reason (I know this isn't your fault) abandoned it several months ago.  This is the main reason why I haven't been to the site in months, skipping numerous PTQ's held there.  The parking is also a pain, and the room was cramped.  None of this came off as a surprise to me, but I know after talking to people who had never been there, they were not thrilled.  I wanted to support you guys, and that's the only reason I decided to go to this horrible venue again.  I know several players who opted not to go strictly because it was held at the Brighton Knights of Colombus.  I can tell you personally that if you guys are in this area again and choose this venue, I definitely won't be there. 

The judging was lacking severly.  This is a slippery slope for me to tread on, because I know and have judged with all of the judges involved in the event.  They approached this event very heavy-handedly, doling out warnings left and right and often forcing players to make a play on a key turn only after a minute or two had gone by.  This came up in several key matches, including a few top 8 ones (which are typically untimed).  I was told that some of this will be brought up in an upcoming thread about how judging adversely affects vintage, but some of it still needed to be mentioned here.  I have much respect for the judges, but they approached this tournament the wrong way.  This is not a Pro Tour, a GP or even a PTQ.  I'm aware it was REL 3, but the way in which the judges interacted with players in both talking to them and handing out rulings came off as sub-standard.  Just my opinion, but I know many who said the same thing during both days.  Also, it didn't help that the printer broke day two and backed up the tourney by at least an hour.

Having just one dealer severly hampers the amount of buying/selling/trading.  I know buying cards is a big, big plus for holding this event... and I imagine you held it at this hall so you wouldn't have to compete with a store.  The problem with just one dealer is that it limits the amount of financial mobility a player can have.  What I mean by that is that if a player came to SCG planning to sell some cards in order to fund the trip, they are forced to take whatever price Ben Bleweiss proposes or they are out of luck.  With multiple dealers, they can shop around and probably be able to afford dinner.  That's probably viewed as a minus from your point of view, and that's understandable.  A considerable plus would be that with multiple dealers, players would be able to increase the odds of getting whatever last minute cards they need.  Any concerns about losing business from buying/selling cards would be made up in that you can charge additional dealers for tables, and they will still gladly pay to have a seat at an SCG event.  It's not uncommon for dealers to work with other dealers, and that's usually the best outcome for all involved... especially the players.  A big allure to Ray Robillard's events is the sheer amount of dealers there, and that stimulates higher attendances traditionally.

The prizes awarded were in very rough condition.  This is admiteddly minor, because it only affects those who made top 8, and they are making out financially no matter what.  Still, the difference between a "good" piece of power and a "fine" piece of power is anywhere from $50 to hundreds of dollars.  If you're going to charge $30 a head, I don't see why you can't give out better conditioned prizes.  Which bring me to my final point:

$30 entrance fee: I have mixed feeling on this.  I know that the prizes are flat out better than other circuits, but would it really be too much of a financial blow to lower the entrance fee slightly, or at least give a combined discount for both days?  You'd be surprised at what a $5-10 difference could do in terms of attendance.  Yes, you may lose money in the short term by lowering entrance fee, but in the long term you'll undoubtedly get more players eager to come back.  I personally know of at least six players, some who are very big SCG supporters, who opted not to play day 2 strictly because of the $30 entrance fee.

That's about all I have.  I did this post not to attack SCG, but to inform you that the event definitely needs work.  All I want to do is see your event flourish, because it helps vintage.  I top 8'd and still have doubts about going to another SCG event, but I probably still will because I appreciate your attempt to help type one grow, and I understand you're trying to make money while doing this.  I respect that.  I just worry that you won't get as many players the next time you come in this area because of how poorly this one was.  Just my two cents.

- Dave Feinstein

 

[forests failed you]

yatta indeed

[The M.E.T.H.O.D]

I think you guys severly underestimate the time and planning it takes to pull off an event like the SCG series of tournies. Despite Boston being NO WAY NEAR their home where their stock is they did a very good job of supplying most of the popular vintage staples at a decent price. In order to provide this kind of tournement they have to be the only vendor at the event. The prize structure (even in that condition) is significantly more then most other events and because of the legacy these tournements/waterbury have people are expecting that kind of prize almost every time.

The location for fine. It comfortable fit all the players in the room. It was kinda hot and maybe the parking was off but it is very hard to find a suitable location for a large group of people for such a long time with certain financial constraints. s

As for the judging I feel that they did the best possible job they could. Judging a format like vintage especially when proxies are involved are very hard and it takes a lot of "work" to even have an average knowledge of rules. They handed out penalties in the same form that would occur in sanctioned formats. The only glaring "problem" I saw was that they were overly enforcing the stalling/playing in a reasonable time thing.

Despite a couple of minor hiccups it was a very good event and the only thing that can come out of this is them reading this thread and maybe having a couple more things to consider for the future.

Ashok

[Roxas]

In addition to what JD said, this is a good read concerning slow play:

http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=290682&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Basically, Sheldon and other high-level judges make the following point: slow play is slow play, regardless of the format and complexity or importance of the decision being made.  You certainly can take reasonable amounts of time to stop and think, but the game must also advance at a reasonable pace.

[Dante]

In addition to what JD said, this is a good read concerning slow play:

http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=290682&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Basically, Sheldon and other high-level judges make the following point: slow play is slow play, regardless of the format and complexity or importance of the decision being made.  You certainly can take reasonable amounts of time to stop and think, but the game must also advance at a reasonable pace.

Yah, with the threads both on SCG and TMD about slow play and playing in a reasonable amount of time, regardless of complexity.  Of course if you didn't follow TMD/SCG a couple months ago, it might be a shock, but for anyone who has followed these forums, shouldn't be a shock at all.

[outpost1]

First of all, I'd like to thank everyone for the feedback. Most of it has been positive, and I appreciate that. However, there is always room for improvement, so I'd like to address Dave Feinstein's original post...

"The venue, as I knew coming in... was terrible.  I've been to just about every tourney venue in New England over a span of twelve years.  This place ranks as one of the absolute worst.  The venue used to have air conidtioning, but for some unjustifiable reason (I know this isn't your fault) abandoned it several months ago.  This is the main reason why I haven't been to the site in months, skipping numerous PTQ's held there.  The parking is also a pain, and the room was cramped.  None of this came off as a surprise to me, but I know after talking to people who had never been there, they were not thrilled.  I wanted to support you guys, and that's the only reason I decided to go to this horrible venue again.  I know several players who opted not to go strictly because it was held at the Brighton Knights of Colombus.  I can tell you personally that if you guys are in this area again and choose this venue, I definitely won't be there."

Despite conducting what I believed to be adequate research, I was not aware of these problems before Saturday. However, after receiving site feedback from Ben and Chris (my two on-site buyers), I have already made the decision not to use the venue again. If anyone was unhappy with the venue, please accept my apologies. I am currently looking for a better site in the Northeast, so please feel free to send any suggestions to outpost1@starcitygames.com.

"The judging was lacking severly.  This is a slippery slope for me to tread on, because I know and have judged with all of the judges involved in the event.  They approached this event very heavy-handedly, doling out warnings left and right and often forcing players to make a play on a key turn only after a minute or two had gone by.  This came up in several key matches, including a few top 8 ones (which are typically untimed).  I was told that some of this will be brought up in an upcoming thread about how judging adversely affects vintage, but some of it still needed to be mentioned here.  I have much respect for the judges, but they approached this tournament the wrong way.  This is not a Pro Tour, a GP or even a PTQ.  I'm aware it was REL 3, but the way in which the judges interacted with players in both talking to them and handing out rulings came off as sub-standard.  Just my opinion, but I know many who said the same thing during both days.  Also, it didn't help that the printer broke day two and backed up the tourney by at least an hour."

Our judges work extremely hard, but they are human, and as such, occassionally make mistakes. That said, if anyone ever has an issue with the judging at one of our events, please provide us with specifics and we will do our best to address those concerns.

“Having just one dealer severly hampers the amount of buying/selling/trading.  I know buying cards is a big, big plus for holding this event... and I imagine you held it at this hall so you wouldn't have to compete with a store.”

We only chose the Brighton Knights of Columbus because it seemed like the best option. I would actually *prefer* to host the events at large stores like the old Pastimes store in Chicago or Millennium Games in Rochester. If you know of any stores that may be interested in hosting future events, please have them contact me at outpost1@starcitygames.com. However, I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for us to start offering additional dealer tables at our P9 events.

“The prizes awarded were in very rough condition.  This is admitedly minor, because it only affects those who made top 8, and they are making out financially no matter what.  Still, the difference between a "good" piece of power and a "fine" piece of power is anywhere from $50 to hundreds of dollars.  If you're going to charge $30 a head, I don't see why you can't give out better conditioned prizes. $30 entrance fee: I have mixed feeling on this.  I know that the prizes are flat out better than other circuits, but would it really be too much of a financial blow to lower the entrance fee slightly, or at least give a combined discount for both days?  You'd be surprised at what a $5-10 difference could do in terms of attendance.  Yes, you may lose money in the short term by lowering entrance fee, but in the long term you'll undoubtedly get more players eager to come back.  I personally know of at least six players, some who are very big SCG supporters, who opted not to play day 2 strictly because of the $30 entrance fee. That's about all I have.  I did this post not to attack SCG, but to inform you that the event definitely needs work.  All I want to do is see your event flourish, because it helps vintage.  I top 8'd and still have doubts about going to another SCG event, but I probably still will because I appreciate your attempt to help type one grow, and I understand you're trying to make money while doing this.  I respect that.  I just worry that you won't get as many players the next time you come in this area because of how poorly this one was.  Just my two cents.”

I appreciate the feedback, and will be discussing this entire thread at the next meeting with my event staff.

[nataz]

meh, since Pete is apparently reading this...

I went day 1 and had a blast, BUT...

Location:

the location could have been better. Lack of air conditioning was a pain, but I never really had any space issues, at least not above and beyond what I'm used to at any random magic event. While I would have liked to have more space, especially in the first few rounds, playing crowded upstairs was certainly better then what looked to be the other option; extending the play area to a room (read: dungeon) downstairs.

Parking may or may not have been an issue, but since I arrived only mins before the event started and opted to just double park in a random car from out of state next to the venue (which later turned out to belong to the judge) I had no real issues with it.

As far as venues go, I give it a C. Certainly not a failure, but not all that comfy either. It would have been a lot worse if it had gotten warmer (which I think it did on Sunday, but I was only there on Saturday). Still, there must be something better in the area.

Judges:

I had a couple of interactions with the judging staff on day one and found them quite helpful.

-I had to get my decklist back because it had been taken before I could mark down what I had proxied (which was my fault for arriving late)

-I had them make me a proxy of a necromancy at the last min because I had lost mine between Maine and Boston, and my proxy turned out like ass b/c of all the text

- And I had to clear up a match slip discrepancy round 4.

All three times I was treated fairly and professionally, so no complaints from me there. As far as the slow play issue, I heard about it in the Top 8 right after it happened, and while I felt bad, I really wasn’t that surprised. I know that slow play in vintage had been discussed on SCG and on TMD, and the Head Judge made an announcement about it at the beginning of the event. Some thing along the lines of, "Even though we know this is vintage, and being mindful of complex situations, don't expect to get away with 2 + min decisions...". I figured it would come around and bite someone in the ass, and I guess it did. Bad beats Nate, but at least you did make the top 8.

as a final grade for judges, I give them a personal A. Everything else was just hersay, and even thou I was there I never actually saw any of the contentious stuff happen (i.e., "fake lotus", Slow Play in the Top 8, etc).

Price: 

It's expensive, and I didn’t realize that until I thought about how much it would cost to play both days. Expensive is a bummer, but the prize payout is really good. Considering the price of power, the cost of renting a location, and moving staff around, it is tough to complain. Would I like it cheaper, sure. Will I pay the 30 bucks if that’s what it takes to keep this going indefinably, yes. SCG doesn't have to do the vintage pro tour, and we need them probably a lot more then they need up. I'll take what I can get if they are willing to host in NE.

Overall impression, I think I've been spoiled by Waterbury. I went to this even thinking how much of a blast it was going to be, like Waterbury on steroids. I mean if Ray (a man who does this in his spare time as a side project) can make Waterbury so amazing, imagine what SCG (a big CCG company) could do. I was wrong, and this was nothing like Waterbury. It was fun, and it was big, but it wasn't the same, and I'm not sure why. It could very well just be me. I will say that I appreciate Ray even more now then I did before, and I am even more bummed that I missed the last Waterbury this summer.

All in all, SCG Boston is a good thing. It may be a little more mechanical, less community oriented then I'm used to, but it is still a huge event. It gets people motivated, and it gets the format moving. Its something to test for, and something to get excited about. 18 pieces of power in 2 days is nothing to scoff at, especially if its done with any regularity. This event did have its bumps, (location, parking, possibly judging), but I figure there is a learning curve. SCG came a long way with not guarantee to make this happen, and I'm willing to forgive small errors in the hopes that they will learn from their mistakes and make it even better next time.

-carter   

[AbouTreeFiddy]

Star city tournaments are great, I have 2 personal issues, 1 of which has already been addressed.

1:please not in brighton ever again.  already fixed!

2:prize support for top 16 in an event > 100 people.

In the past, top 16 received italian legend packs.  I understand that they may not be available, or the cost is too great.  My solution:

remove the timetwister from the top 8 draft.

No one really cares if they receive a timetwister in addition to a black lotus.  The first place prize support suffers a loss of about 20% from losing timetwister, but, they just won a black lotus.  They will still be happy, I know I still would be.  I know a bunch of people over the course of time that have decided not to go to another SCG event because the prize support blows when you don't make top 8.  You should at least be making your money back in prizes  if you go 6-2 or 6-1-1 and get fucked by tie breaks.

take the estimated 180-200$$ value of the timetwister and distribute it  to places 9th-16th in CREDIT with SCG.  No one that plays T1 actually needs packs.  We do need the cool pimp cards you guys stock.
 
 9th   40$ credit
10th  30$ credit
11th  25$ credit
12th  25$ credit
13th  20$ credit
14th  20$ credit
15th  15$ credit
16th  15$ credit

[LotusHead]

I personally think it's a gift to us that the series is continuing.  For those of us who aren't blessed with the privilege of having Waterbury less than a 15 hour drive away, the SCG circuit is all we get for these sorts of events.

Some of us are stuck with P9 series that give 1 peice of power per tourney! (We love you Eudemonia/Who's On First!!!)

Others get even even less.

Just keep Vintage going guys!

[bdg4life]

Have you come up with the dates for this?

[Kermit_the_PutZ]

Ive searched high and low for the date on the starcitygames forums... and still have no info.

can we please have a DATE for the weekend?... November is a busy month for everyone and the earlier we know the date, the better we can plan

[Tha Gunslinga]

The sooner you release dates, the more people you'll have in attendance.  I have THREE people who will definitely be coming, and up to 5 more that want to come, but we need to ask off work and plan time away from school, and we need to know dates ASAP.

[MishraTron]

can we please have a DATE for the weekend?...

I need a date too. Anyonme know any single ladies? (NO FAT CHICKS!)

[matt_v]

11/18 and 11/19. I'll be posting the event listing later today.

-Matt

[Tha Gunslinga]

I love you.

[bdg4life]

Im hoping you guys move it up atleast a week, 4 days before thanksgiving will really hurt the attendence.

[matt_v]

Im hoping you guys move it up atleast a week, 4 days before thanksgiving will really hurt the attendence.

That would put it on the same weekend as GP New Jersey.

-Matt

[Illuvatar Reborn]

Hopefully MULTIPLE times