[New Card Discussion] Children of Korlis

[brianpk80]

For those hating Tendrils of Agony, forget Trickbind.  This is more what the doctor ordered. 
Source: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/spoiler/time-spiral/#1284

Children of Korlis   
Creature - Human Rebel Cleric 
Sacrifice Children of Korlis: You gain life equal to the life you've lost this turn.
1/1

This has got to be the most viable 1-drop printed since Stormscape Apprentice.  Not only does it fortify Fish against Tendrils based combo, but it also is extremely useful against another of Fish's weak matchups, aggro.  If necessary, it also turns the tables on extreme life loss from a Dark Confidant having revealed a Force of Will or even a Darksteel Colossus if you incorporate that alternate win into a Fish build.  Note that there is (currently) no clause prohibiting its use to recoup life lost due to mana burn, so if you have multiples in play and feel like gaining a lot of life then go for it.  Additionally, it clearly opens up a lot of bizarre combo possibilities with life-oriented enchantments like Necropotence, Illusions of Grandeur, Zur's Weirding, and others.  I am sure broken things can also be accomplished by finding a way to recur this guy.  A truly amazing weenie. 

I give it five stars. 

-BPK

[Harlequin]

Best card to be printed in this set by a large margin.  DEFINATE inclusion in fish. 

After the printing of this card, I think white will basically be required in fish.  Combo is going to have alot of catching up to do after this set is in print. 

[Metman]

This is a huge boost to aggro considering it has trouble against combo.  If this card takes off like I think it should every deck will need to run MD creature removal and/or bounce.  This creature makes white a whole lot stronger.  Dare we talk about WW?

[wethepeople]

Opponent: Drop Tendrils for 22.
Player: Resp.
Player taps Aether Vial.
Player puts Children of Korlis into play from hand.
Player sacrifices Children of Korlis.
Player's life total is now 42. (+22)
Player's life total is now 20. (-22)
Player: my turn?

 

[Moxlotus]

Opponent: Drop Tendrils for 22.
Player: Resp.
Player taps Aether Vial.
Player puts Children of Korlis into play from hand.
Player sacrifices Children of Korlis.
Player's life total is now 42. (+22)
Player's life total is now 20. (-22)
Player: my turn?

 

Um, how do you gain a bunch of life before you lose it? 

[wethepeople]

i was thinking of whether or not that even worked, as noobish as this may seem, if they Tendrils you for say 22 and put you to zero, wouldnt you lose, even if you had Children of Korlis in play?

i guess i typed that MWS situation a little wrong.

[brianpk80]

Um, how do you gain a bunch of life before you lose it? 

You wait until every copy of the Tendrils has resolved except for the first one to make it lethal, and then you sacrifice the Children. 
You will probably end up losing no less than 2 life but should not be much more than 6. 

-BPK

[wethepeople]

Um, how do you gain a bunch of life before you lose it? 

You wait until every copy of the Tendrils has resolved except for the first one to make it lethal, and then you sacrifice the Children. 

-BPK

ah right, i understand that now. I tend to forget Tendrils works as several different spells rather than one massive one. Children of Korlis makes me happy.

[BreathWeapon]

It's good, but it isn't great. It just gives Tendrils another card to remove in order to go off. I don't see it being better than Meddling Mage or True Believer at that rate, it's not like Fish needs another anti-combo card in an already favorable match up that doesn't use all of the best anti-combo creatures as it stands.

It should be a good card in 1.5, Extended and Standard.

[brianpk80]

It's good, but it isn't great. It just gives Tendrils another card to remove in order to go off. I don't see it being better than Meddling Mage or True Believer at that rate, it's not like Fish needs another anti-combo card in an already favorable match up that doesn't use all of the best anti-combo creatures as it stands.

It should be a good card in 1.5, Extended and Standard.

The key difference here is the casting cost.  W versus UW is a world of a difference when playing a deck that goldfishes frequently on the first two turns.  Meddling Mages and True Believers rarely come down on the first turn and additionally, this gives Fish a very palpable combo threat with an AEther Vial @ 1.  It's also the only 1 drop versatile enough to both stop a lethal Tendrils and buy you time against a Colossus or Angels, not to mention the fact that it gives you more options in managing your Dark Confidants.  This doesn't even begin to consider the combo possibilities it brings on its own, including more tricks in Trix and finding a way to indefinitely recur this guy.  That said, a Fish player isn't going to cast the Children and sit around doing nothing for the rest of the game.  While there may be miracle draws where the storm player draws into Ancestral -> Lotus, Chain of Vapor, Demonic Tutor after this hits, most of the time, the added impediment of having to bounce this guy amidst Dazes, FoW's, and Stifles before going off is going to thwart the calculation enough that the Fish player should end up having bought enough time to couple the Children with more disruption: a Meddling Mage naming Chain (or Massacre post-sb), a Null Rod, a Strip Mine, Duress or even just a sick arsenal of counters.  If they run Vials, then forget trying to bounce this guy.  And he's flexible enough against the format that most Fish decks will be playing him maindeck in spades, possibly prompting a resurgence of Vials due to his great Ninja interaction.  Really, this creature isn't just good; it is great.

-BPK   

[wethepeople]

Really, this creature isn't just good; it is great.    

You soo stole that from the Frosted Flakes commercial.

[brianpk80]

You soo stole that from the Frosted Flakes commercial.

Guilty as charged.
But hey, you know this guy is going to be sick in my new Oath of Ghouls Fish deck.

-BPK

[wethepeople]

You soo stole that from the Frosted Flakes commercial.

Guilty as charged.
But hey, you know this guy is going to be sick in my new Oath of Ghouls Fish deck.

-BPK

As soon as I saw that you posted a New Card Discussion I knew that it would have some relation to your Oath of Ghouls deck, this will of course see play in your deck because you can sac it, then return it at the begining of your upkeep with Oath, and never lose a life. woohoo!

[Tin_Mox5831]

It's a neat little dude that appears to have a few good applications. Pitch Long, however, can deal with him the same way they can deal with every other utility critter Fish comes up with: Massacre. He's real interesting, don't get me wrong, but nobody's going to shelf their Dark Rituals just due to this guy.

[someone_unimportan]

Also, if tendrils storms up to 19 spells, it does nothing. You go to 2, sac this gain 18 life to 20, then take 20 more damage

[Roxas]

The biggest significance of this card is that it's yet another "deal with this guy or die" card that the Tendrils decks have to deal with, and it still attacks to boot. While this on its own probably wouldn't bother storm combo all that much, don't forget that it will usually be used in tandem with Force of Will, Meddling Mage, True Believer, Null Rod, Stifle (and maybe its new Split Second variant), and other cards like Orim's Chant. This critical mass of cards that must be dealt with helps give U/W(/x) fish a serious wall against combo, provided that it gets a turn or two in which to cast them.

[brianpk80]

Also, if tendrils storms up to 19 spells, it does nothing. You go to 2, sac this gain 18 life to 20, then take 20 more damage

Correct.  Unfortunately for storm combo however, this pretty much never happens in the first few turns of a game.  Storm at 19 happens very rarely and is usually the product of Mind's Desire or Bargain + some other bomb or Rebuild/Chain of Vapor + Yawgmoth's Will, both conjunctions of which take some serious set up to get going.  By the time the storm player is in the position to cast 20 (!) spells, the Fish will have either eaten him alive, or pinned him down with another Children, a Meddling Mage, Null Rod, Glowrider, Wasteland, Planar Void, an ill-timed Duress/Cabal Therapy, etc.   

It's a neat little dude that appears to have a few good applications. Pitch Long, however, can deal with him the same way they can deal with every other utility critter Fish comes up with: Massacre. He's real interesting, don't get me wrong, but nobody's going to shelf their Dark Rituals just due to this guy.

A good UW Fish player will know you have boarded in Massacre and isn't going to walk right into it.  The fact that you can't win until resolving Massacre is probably enough to stretch the game out for a few additional turns during which Fish will either play a Meddler naming Massacre, Extract you, Draw into Stifle, Grunt your graveyard, Daze your Grim Tutor (so long Tundra, Massacre is 2BB again), Develop a Vial, Waste your Underground, play Chalice @ 1, or do another one of the horrible Vintage-hate tricks Fish is known for.  As much as a proud Gifts or Long player would find it in poor taste to admit, UW/Uwb Fish is probably its worst matchup right now.  Having this hell on wheels that comes down a turn earlier isn't going to make it any easier for storm.   

That said, nothing limits Children of Korlis to Fish exclusively.  I would sideboard it if I played Burning Slaver and I'd also capitalize on the Tundra to run Balance and maybe even Swords to Plowshares in the sb.  I'd sideboard it if I played 5C Stax.  I'd put it in my Oath sideboard (gotta love the color-boost you get from four Forbidden Orchards); I'd even be happy to Oath it up against combo.  It's going to do a lot more than Razia anyway in that "less than three turns long" storm matchup.  I'm not saying that this is the end of all storm combo, just that it's an undeniably strong hoser that levels the playing field a lot. 

-BPK
 

[Fortifitakitors]

I don''t know if I am right or wrong but this would be beyond broken in vintage.

(Yawgmoth's Bargan or Necropotence) + Children of Korlis= Card advantage for any player, that resolves Bargain or Necro, go to 1 life, gain it all back it again. But the big question is paying life the same as losing it?

[Raakam]

I'm honestly amazed by this card. It strengthens Fish and Cullen Control against its worse matchup - combo.

Here are some possible repercussions of his inclusion:

- Makes Aether Vial that much better.
- Pithing Needles to make an appearance in combo?
- Massacres every which way.

While Wizards printed this little gem, they also did create that red storm spell (1R) that does 1 damage to target player or creature which will probably make an abundant appearance as very solid removal against this little guy and as an accelerated kill condition for combo.

[brianpk80]

I don''t know if I am right or wrong but this would be beyond broken in vintage.

(Yawgmoth's Bargan or Necropotence) + Children of Korlis= Card advantage for any player, that resolves Bargain or Necro, go to 1 life, gain it all back it again. But the big question is paying life the same as losing it?

Yes, you would be able to restore the life paid if you used it.  However, while it may open the possibility of a reinvigorated Trix deck, most decks that run Bargain and Necro tend to win so instantaneously that gaining the life back is an unnecessary afterthought. 

-BPK

[The Atog Lord]

What a neat card! As Jesus said, while this guy per se won't destroy combo, he adds to the list of cards which Aggro can play which really slows down Combo. And he's the first one-drop to join that club.

If Massacre becomes a huge issue, there is nothing making Fish avoid the 5-c mana base. Heck, there are even enough decent nonplains lands that tap for white like Karakus that while not likely it would be possible to build something involving those.

This guy will be useful outside of just the combo match, too. He's a Spore Frog against aggro, meaning that while not amazing in the mirror he'll be perfectly fine. In Legacy against Goblins and Burn, he's either a Flagbearer or a Timewalk.

[Dxfiler]

I actually don't like this card in type one that much.  It's applications, while varied, don't seem to be enough to warrant its inclusion over True Believer, Stormscape apprentice, or even Savannah Lions.  TB shuts down tendrils guaranteed, as well as gifts/intuition/duress... stormscape apprentice is alot more useful in dealin with colossus than this guy, who buys you one turn... and lions are lions! :p  Ok, so maybe it could take the Savannah Lions spot, but I'm pretty sure I'd stick with apprentice or TB over this.  If combo completely and totally blows up, then yes it makes sense maindeck.  As it is, I personally don't think this card is needed, but I could see it in the sideboard (although not over orim's chant).

- Dave Feinstein

[sundering jerk]

BY THE BEARD OF ZEUS!!!!!!!   That does it! I will have to add white to every deck now! I can't wait to necro, bargin, contract, and confidont my life up, while gaining game winning advantages.

I think this will change the format forever.   .......   Or maybe darkblast will just be run in every deck, who knows

[zeus-online]

Hmm he might be good against Storm combo, but something like gifts can (atleast to my experience) often storm for 40+ (although i usually stop when i hit like...24 or something).

He's definetly playable, but not exactly a card that's gonna blow the whole meta away.

I'm wondering if wizard's really had it with storm combo anyway? looks like they've printed like 3-4 answers to it in one friggin' block, hell one friggin' SET.

/Zeus

[Phi]

Ok, let's say that you're facing a tendrils with 20 damage. And you have 2 of these guys on the table. You sac one of them when you're down to 2, gain 18 life, suffer the last 2 damage, and then sac the other. Does the second one give you 20 life, so that you'll end up to 38? Or just 2 life, so that you'll end up to 20?

[Implacable]

38 is the answer that you're looking for.  Yes, that is ridiculous.  Good luck getting high enough to storm that out!

[wethepeople]

Ok, let's say that you're facing a tendrils with 20 damage. And you have 2 of these guys on the table. You sac one of them when you're down to 2, gain 18 life, suffer the last 2 damage, and then sac the other. Does the second one give you 20 life, so that you'll end up to 38? Or just 2 life, so that you'll end up to 20?

I highly doubt you will get out two at once though, it would be nice if that did however happen.

I am sure the card will be gotten around, a simple mini-tendrils as bait should get most players to fall for it then like 5 turns later they will hit you with a big one. Until a few minues ago i didnt even realize that the Tendrils player also gains the life. This gives them quite a while to get going again. I would no longer consider this the best answer to Tendrils, but it certainly helps.

[49 Cents]

Ok, let's say that you're facing a tendrils with 20 damage. And you have 2 of these guys on the table. You sac one of them when you're down to 2, gain 18 life, suffer the last 2 damage, and then sac the other. Does the second one give you 20 life, so that you'll end up to 38? Or just 2 life, so that you'll end up to 20?

I highly doubt you will get out two at once though, it would be nice if that did however happen.

Why? A 1cc 4-off isn't that unlikely to get out, it seems..

Especially with Vials.

[zeus-online]

Erhm, the point is that you have to draw two before the combo player attempts to go off.
I don't find myself swarming in copies just because i got a full set of them in my deck

/Zeus

[Guli]

Lim-Dul's Vault would practicly become a Demonic tutor at instant speed with this guy out. Im thinking

Rituals/Necro/Lim-Dul's Vault/Demonic/Childrens