Gooch Gifts, a Primer? By me?

[Gaagooch]

Im sorry I dont quite see how scroll is fixing, can you possibly explain that to me more.

Scroll ... can not dig for MANA.

I'm thinking about Night's Whisper

He's referring to Night's Whisper. He wants his mana fixing at 2, but Scroll is not cutting it for him.

Im not sure he is talking about nights whisper in that situation, yes he mentions it in the previous sentence, but only as something he has just begun to think about.  Either way I do believe that thirst is much better than nights whisper as it is an instant and digs one card deeper for one more mana, sure at best it nets the same amount of cards, but digging deeper is more of an issue usually.

casting gifts for four mana is almost always never a good play

I think the word you were looking for was "rarely." 

Yea but why use one word when I can overcomplicate things and use three.  3>1

[diopter]

Either way I do believe that thirst is much better than nights whisper as it is an instant and digs one card deeper for one more mana, sure at best it nets the same amount of cards, but digging deeper is more of an issue usually.

I will have to disagree. Thirst puts you into a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation in this version of Gifts. If you pitch an artifact, you've just gotten rid of a mana source that you need to cast the other expensive spells in your hand. If you pitch two cards, you've just cast a bad Impulse. Without the critical mass of non-mana artifacts that a deck like, say, Slaver carries, your Thirsts will often force you to choose between a rock and a hard place. Mana, or gas? Gifts wants both. In a non-Slaver shell, Thirst will only give you one.

[desolutionist]

The problem with Whisper is that you'll most likely have to break a fetch to have access to B, decreasing the probability that you'll draw into a land.  Similarly, the problem with using Thirst as an acceptable means to digging for lands is that you'll most likely have to break a fetch to have access to the third mana.  You'd probably be better off with something as trivial as Sleight of Hand.

I've never had consistent mana problems with Meandeck's mana base.  I don't understand why it demands redemption.

[MaxxMatt]

@Gaagooch

Your deck can be kicked off by CotV@1.
Repeals, alotof1cc-spells and your blast in side, force you to rely on Demonic Tutor and Rebuild to fix and recover from it.
You cannot B.Wish for anything that can bounce/kill it.
Gifts ungiven cannot give a solution to it aside from setting up a quick Y.Will.
Without your 1cc business spells the deck would be extremely slowed down.

Have you got the same feelings about it?
( A simple "no", would not be an answer )

The deck itself, is a good version of TFK.Gifts.dec, but I find that M.Scrolls ( I play 2 ) are key even in a TFK based version of Gifts.dec.
If you cut Repeals from maindeck and add 2 M.Scrolls, we are going to play almost the same deck ( cut the maindecked ToA, swap Darkblast for ChainofVapor too and you would finally play with 60 cards and my exact deck ): I brought it to different tourneys and retrospectively speaking, without M.Scroll, I would have had completely different results from the good ones that I had until now.

M.Scroll + TFKs are both quality and quantity.
As MonGoblinChief said, I would never cut both of them because M-Scrols are the quality that I can "topdeck" while TFKs are the needed gas to add mana and spells to my hand.

You are going to trade counterspells and tutors ( MDGifts ) with business spells with a minor impact into the game if you cannot power them up with the proper tutorage.

Maxx

[Gaagooch]

Either way I do believe that thirst is much better than nights whisper as it is an instant and digs one card deeper for one more mana, sure at best it nets the same amount of cards, but digging deeper is more of an issue usually.

I will have to disagree. Thirst puts you into a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation in this version of Gifts. If you pitch an artifact, you've just gotten rid of a mana source that you need to cast the other expensive spells in your hand. If you pitch two cards, you've just cast a bad Impulse. Without the critical mass of non-mana artifacts that a deck like, say, Slaver carries, your Thirsts will often force you to choose between a rock and a hard place. Mana, or gas? Gifts wants both. In a non-Slaver shell, Thirst will only give you one.

Remember you do not always need to play your moxen out as soon as you draw them, in a lot of situations it is much better to hold onto off color moxen.  They will thus add to storm, or in some cases pitch to a thirst if the other cards are better than such.

@Gaagooch

Your deck can be kicked off by CotV@1.
Repeals, alotof1cc-spells and your blast in side, force you to rely on Demonic Tutor and Rebuild to fix and recover from it.
You cannot B.Wish for anything that can bounce/kill it.
Gifts ungiven cannot give a solution to it aside from setting up a quick Y.Will.
Without your 1cc business spells the deck would be extremely slowed down.

Have you got the same feelings about it?
( A simple "no", would not be an answer )

The deck itself, is a good version of TFK.Gifts.dec, but I find that M.Scrolls ( I play 2 ) are key even in a TFK based version of Gifts.dec.
If you cut Repeals from maindeck and add 2 M.Scrolls, we are going to play almost the same deck ( cut the maindecked ToA, swap Darkblast for ChainofVapor too and you would finally play with 60 cards and my exact deck ): I brought it to different tourneys and retrospectively speaking, without M.Scroll, I would have had completely different results from the good ones that I had until now.

M.Scroll + TFKs are both quality and quantity.
As MonGoblinChief said, I would never cut both of them because M-Scrols are the quality that I can "topdeck" while TFKs are the needed gas to add mana and spells to my hand.

You are going to trade counterspells and tutors ( MDGifts ) with business spells with a minor impact into the game if you cannot power them up with the proper tutorage.

Maxx

Cotv@1 hurts gifts, no doubt, but ive always found people to chalice at two first.  If my deck that is only a few scrolls away from your deck then doesnt your deck get equally shut down by cotv @ 1, yes you can topdeck your merchant scrolls to find your bounce, but I can also win through cotv @ 1, because it is not at 0 or 2.  As I previously stated more often than not my opponents who know I am playing gifts will play cotv at one of two costs, zero, and two.  One does stop me from playing a lot of my spells, but doesnt it also retroactively hurt that deck too?  I have never had a problem with chalice for one because when my opponent plays it for one I am happy that I can still play moxen, mana drain, dt, walk, recoup, wish, etc.  If I was worried about cotv@1 I would play socerey speed bounce/artifact removal in my sideboard so that I could wish for it, but it is a non-issue imo.  I also will not play this deck without maindeck ToA it makes things so much easier, and I would consider cutting burning wish before such, as a lot of people have considered now anyways.  It is probably the weakest card in the deck, and since I have picked the deck back up since writing this I have already cut darkblast as it is usually trash. 

[MaxxMatt]

About CotV@1

Sorry man, but your statements doesn't functions at all.
The scenario is MW.dec that start with CotV@1 during the first turns of the game.
Not when you have established some sort of control.
Your deck can't play
4 BS
1 Ancestral
1 Mystical
1 Vampiric
1 Darkblast
2 Artifact Mana
No Repeals on CotV
NoBlastsInSide

No Tool in your side to B.Wish for
No quick way to deal with CotV@1 PLUS other threats

Against this situation, your plan is:
1) hope to draw Rebuild or Demonic
2) TPC
3) 10 spells + ToA

You can't manipulate the deck properly to consistently do 2) or 3), especially because CotV@1 isnt' THE ONLY opponent's threat but ONE of them.
You can't consistently do 1) because of the lack of possible mana development or addiitonal manipulation

Your scenario, is too much semplicistic.
CotV@1, played by the right deck, is far more than threatening to you ESPECIALLY because it avoid both mana development AND spells manipulation.
And, most of all, your additional tools for permanents ( Repeals ) don't function on it.

THIS is the reason for my questions or argument.
Our decks, can be "similar" to mine, but they are "strategically" different.

IF some opponent would start land mox CotV@1, I have ( despite your reasoning )
2 or 3 M.Scrolls for Rebuild
1 B.Wish for Shattering Spree.
I can Gift for solutions faster than you, if I'm in NEED of getting rid of that hate spell, too.

Our decks are "similar" but they have strategically different solutions.
I thought about not losing to single cards too, when choosing my own "maindeck toolbox".
These solutions are the "key" here.
I'm not questioning the strategy behind your deck, but your own approach to this problem.
Saying that you can "circumvent" it, from my experience, means that you didn't face similar scenario too often.

--CotV@1 from MW.dec, usually means that you are usually going to face more simialr threats too ( Wires, SoR, Smokestacks, Trini )
--CotV@1 from Oath are terrible to face too, because they avoid your search for the few spells that can let you face a quick Oath
--CotV@1 from Fishes.dec help you think they have an higher curve = powered decks to face = D.Confidants + Shamans + Bouncers + Ninjas + counters + other hate spells.
--CotV, if played by a smart player, against such a deck, would be charged @1 instead of @2, because 50% of the deck is singlehandly shut up for a while.

I'm not harsh, just sad  :/

Just my 2 cents.
Maxx

[Gaagooch]

About CotV@1

Sorry man, but your statements doesn't functions at all.
The scenario is MW.dec that start with CotV@1 during the first turns of the game.
Not when you have established some sort of control.
Your deck can't play
4 BS
1 Ancestral
1 Mystical
1 Vampiric
1 Darkblast
2 Artifact Mana
No Repeals on CotV
NoBlastsInSide

No Tool in your side to B.Wish for
No quick way to deal with CotV@1 PLUS other threats

Against this situation, your plan is:
1) hope to draw Rebuild or Demonic
2) TPC
3) 10 spells + ToA

You can't manipulate the deck properly to consistently do 2) or 3), especially because CotV@1 isnt' THE ONLY opponent's threat but ONE of them.
You can't consistently do 1) because of the lack of possible mana development or addiitonal manipulation

Your scenario, is too much semplicistic.
CotV@1, played by the right deck, is far more than threatening to you ESPECIALLY because it avoid both mana development AND spells manipulation.
And, most of all, your additional tools for permanents ( Repeals ) don't function on it.

THIS is the reason for my questions or argument.
Our decks, can be "similar" to mine, but they are "strategically" different.

IF some opponent would start land mox CotV@1, I have ( despite your reasoning )
2 or 3 M.Scrolls for Rebuild
1 B.Wish for Shattering Spree.
I can Gift for solutions faster than you, if I'm in NEED of getting rid of that hate spell, too.

Our decks are "similar" but they have strategically different solutions.
I thought about not losing to single cards too, when choosing my own "maindeck toolbox".
These solutions are the "key" here.
I'm not questioning the strategy behind your deck, but your own approach to this problem.
Saying that you can "circumvent" it, from my experience, means that you didn't face similar scenario too often.

--CotV@1 from MW.dec, usually means that you are usually going to face more simialr threats too ( Wires, SoR, Smokestacks, Trini )
--CotV@1 from Oath are terrible to face too, because they avoid your search for the few spells that can let you face a quick Oath
--CotV@1 from Fishes.dec help you think they have an higher curve = powered decks to face = D.Confidants + Shamans + Bouncers + Ninjas + counters + other hate spells.
--CotV, if played by a smart player, against such a deck, would be charged @1 instead of @2, because 50% of the deck is singlehandly shut up for a while.

I'm not harsh, just sad  :/

Just my 2 cents.
Maxx

I dont understand how your deck can gifts faster for answers.  You run merchant scroll, chain of vapor, rebuild, and dt.  Does challice for one not do the same thing to your deck?  In order to have wish for shattering spree you also need two red mana up, and against a deck that is playing challice of the void, as soon as you show them a non-basic im pretty sure they are showing you a wasteland.  So now you have to depend on having a fetch to fetch out the other red, or have the other volc, and mox ruby in play.  In combination with drawing burning wish.  I do not think that is a very efficient way to deal with the threat.  Wish for echoing ruin seems so much stronger, it ultimately does the same thing but costs less red mana when you do cast it, and should your opponent have out two challices, it destroys them both without needing an extra red mana.   I also do not agree that challice one is a strong play against gifts, IMO chalice zero slows them down much more, and stunting gifts mana growth is key in winning the matchup.  If they have a challice zero out already then and only then could I see them thinking about challice one, but again I still think two is stronger, esp. since most gifts decks are also running scroll which gets hit at two.  I usually dont cast gifts for solutions to problems, I use tutor effects or card draw to find them, when I cast gifts I want to win the game on my next turn.  Yes, it can be used as a tutor into my "toolbox" but I like to think of it as my win spell, in a game where it resolves, I should be winning. 

[MaxxMatt]

I dont understand how your deck can gifts faster for answers. 
You run merchant scroll, chain of vapor, rebuild, and dt. 
Does challice for one not do the same thing to your deck? 

If you switch Repeals with M.Scrolls, look at those simple situations:
We both have a CotV@1 to face.
No broken things to do.
Maybe sometimes happens.

We both drew into nothing for a while ( long time or short time, unnecessary detail ), because CotV stops us from manipulating the deck fast.
We have some islands.
It make perfectly sense because we are playing against a lock deck or a denial one.

Then I draw into M.Scroll. I can bounce things with Rebuild ( or another 2cc global bouncer if it is game2&3 ).
You would draw into Repeal, instead.
I have a solution while you have nothing for at leastanother turn

If I want to get rid of Chalices with Gifts, I can use this stack:
Demonic, M.Scroll, Recoup, mana.
It is easier to accomplish this goal with M.Scrolls into the deck.
You can do the same, but maybe, you have to put YWill into the stack to be sure to get rid of CotV.
It is more mana/resources angry.
No?

In order to have wish for shattering spree you also need two red mana up, and against a deck that is playing challice of the void, as soon as you show them a non-basic im pretty sure they are showing you a wasteland.  So now you have to depend on having a fetch to fetch out the other red, or have the other volc, and mox ruby in play. 
In combination with drawing burning wish.  I do not think that is a very efficient way to deal with the threat.

How is going to talk about efficiency?
I had removals in side to avoid some probable autolosses from unexpected T.Crypts, Rods or Chalices or combination of them.

Without an artifact removal B.Wish target in your side, you can't even try to accomplish this difficult goal.

Wish for echoing ruin seems so much stronger, it ultimately does the same thing but costs less red mana when you do cast it, and should your opponent have out two challices, it destroys them both without needing an extra red mana. 

Maybe your are right with Echoing Ruin, but I'm playing Shattering Spree because it can affect different targets even if with more coloured mana. I have 3 Volcanics to better support all the red cards in my sideboard.
Shattering Spree, can even target things under CotV@1 without removing it from the table.
If both the opponents can be equally damaged by that Chalice, I can even fizzle the first S.Spree copy of the spell, leaving into the stack the remaining ones.

On the other hand, I fetch for Volcanic really carefully and I always leave me the option to search for them.

I also do not agree that challice one is a strong play against gifts, IMO chalice zero slows them down much more, and stunting gifts mana growth is key in winning the matchup.  If they have a challice zero out already then and only then could I see them thinking about challice one, but again I still think two is stronger, esp. since most gifts decks are also running scroll which gets hit at two.

We could talk about this argument for almost forever, but I want to add a deeper insight before dropping this argument at all: It depends on the game and when you are going to face thos damned chalices.

Early chalices are good at a lower cc.
If you had resolved a couple of moxen, playing it for 1 or 2 is better.
If opponents are fearing your game ending 3cc spells, you would play them at 3.
If he used some of his resources, you have to accomodate the cc of the chalices according to those previous plays.

This a percentage-game, you can calculate how many good cards are you going to lose with single chalices during the early turns of the game.

If you face CotV@0 and @1 before you build your own mana on table, you are going to pitch ALL you 4cc spells to FoW, if you are lucky.
If you are going to face CotV@2 after you resolve some mana, they are almost a non issue at all. You can go around them in thousands of ways but it isn't part of my arguments.

Here I'm going to underline some crucial different things.

Statistically speaking,
MDGifts, usually suffer CotV@0 and CotV@2 more than any other Chalice
Control-Gifts, usually suffer CotV@0 and CotV@1

With the word "suffer", I'm mean "high percentage of dead cards in our hands".

I usually dont cast gifts for solutions to problems, I use tutor effects or card draw to find them, when I cast gifts I want to win the game on my next turn.  Yes, it can be used as a tutor into my "toolbox" but I like to think of it as my win spell, in a game where it resolves, I should be winning. 

I suppose that my previous lines would explain why sometimes, bad timing and the lack of a good  mana development would prevent you from playing "winning" Gifts during opponents' EoT.


Maxx

[Mon, Goblin Chief]

Im not sure he is talking about nights whisper in that situation, yes he mentions it in the previous sentence, but only as something he has just begun to think about.  Either way I do believe that thirst is much better than nights whisper as it is an instant and digs one card deeper for one more mana, sure at best it nets the same amount of cards, but digging deeper is more of an issue usually.

]As for the Scroll-issue, diopter got it right, I look for a spell that fixes mana for a cost of two or less but is not as crappy as Sleight of Hand. This is the only reason I think about going below four Scrolls at all, because for any other purpose, Scroll is simply superior.
Thirst for Knowledge is in my opinion a rather crappy card for Gifts-variants. It does not fix my mana early enough because it costs 3 and at the same time usually forces me to discard the mana I search for or have cast a three mana card that is worse than Impulse at two. I might run one, just to have more options for the draw-Gifts once I have established my mana, but even there I'm rather sceptical. I think both Night's Whisper and Skeletal Scrying (just because you can play it for B1 if necessary and you never have to discard the mana you're searching) are superior to TfK for Gifted, as is Bob (TfKs value changes once you include more rather weak artifacts like Titan, Crypt or Explosives MD, though, but that is an error in itself, imo).

Remember you do not always need to play your moxen out as soon as you draw them, in a lot of situations it is much better to hold onto off color moxen.  They will thus add to storm, or in some cases pitch to a thirst if the other cards are better than such.

No, but if you can actually just keep your mana in hand, you drew enough mana, typically meaning you win anyway, especially if you can Scroll for Gifts instead of playing TfK....

CotV: I think 0 is still the most dangerous number, because after first turn, you can use your Brainstorm in response and get your fixing. Amusingly, the biggest reason I think CotV hurts so much is one that Gaagooch considered strategically bad: I can not do the Mana-Gifts into Will any more. Not being able to go for Lotus with Will disarms your early assault quite a bit, too. Overall, everything that doesn't attack my manabase is a lot less of a threat to me than what does.

I usually dont cast gifts for solutions to problems, I use tutor effects or card draw to find them, when I cast gifts I want to win the game on my next turn.  Yes, it can be used as a tutor into my "toolbox" but I like to think of it as my win spell, in a game where it resolves, I should be winning.

This is where all the argument  comes from and even the existence of the old SSB. You're using Gifts Ungiven, while the rest of the players here abuses it by utilising all the options it offers instead of seeing it as a finisher. Once you resolve Gifts, even for the utility piles, you usually win, exactly because it gives you the solution plus a chosen bonus-card. As an aside, the more artifact mana I have, the more likely is it that Gifts "just wins", so why would I run TfK and discard the arti-mana?

Repeal: I'd love to have room to play more solutions, but as usually CoV and Rebuild/Hurkyl's are enough to solve stuff, I'd rather include more spells that are better at finding me mana or cards to win with. Don't get me wrong, I really like repeal, I just don't see me ever running it over Merchant Scrolls.

ToA maindeck: I was always skeptical about running more than just Wish and DSC for winning, as usually you have no problems with killing the opponent once you overpowered them. What Tendrils md allows, though, is to easier use a one turn opening to actually end it right there and then instead of having to keep fighting. This is the reason why, atm, I start liking that option more and more. It also reduces your need for red mana immensely, which is nice.

[Gaagooch]

I dont understand how your deck can gifts faster for answers. 
You run merchant scroll, chain of vapor, rebuild, and dt. 
Does challice for one not do the same thing to your deck? 

If you switch Repeals with M.Scrolls, look at those simple situations:
We both have a CotV@1 to face.
No broken things to do.
Maybe sometimes happens.

We both drew into nothing for a while ( long time or short time, unnecessary detail ), because CotV stops us from manipulating the deck fast.
We have some islands.
It make perfectly sense because we are playing against a lock deck or a denial one.

Then I draw into M.Scroll. I can bounce things with Rebuild ( or another 2cc global bouncer if it is game2&3 ).
You would draw into Repeal, instead.
I have a solution while you have nothing for at leastanother turn

If I want to get rid of Chalices with Gifts, I can use this stack:
Demonic, M.Scroll, Recoup, mana.
It is easier to accomplish this goal with M.Scrolls into the deck.
You can do the same, but maybe, you have to put YWill into the stack to be sure to get rid of CotV.
It is more mana/resources angry.
No?

In order to have wish for shattering spree you also need two red mana up, and against a deck that is playing challice of the void, as soon as you show them a non-basic im pretty sure they are showing you a wasteland.  So now you have to depend on having a fetch to fetch out the other red, or have the other volc, and mox ruby in play. 
In combination with drawing burning wish.  I do not think that is a very efficient way to deal with the threat.

How is going to talk about efficiency?
I had removals in side to avoid some probable autolosses from unexpected T.Crypts, Rods or Chalices or combination of them.

Without an artifact removal B.Wish target in your side, you can't even try to accomplish this difficult goal.

Wish for echoing ruin seems so much stronger, it ultimately does the same thing but costs less red mana when you do cast it, and should your opponent have out two challices, it destroys them both without needing an extra red mana. 

Maybe your are right with Echoing Ruin, but I'm playing Shattering Spree because it can affect different targets even if with more coloured mana. I have 3 Volcanics to better support all the red cards in my sideboard.
Shattering Spree, can even target things under CotV@1 without removing it from the table.
If both the opponents can be equally damaged by that Chalice, I can even fizzle the first S.Spree copy of the spell, leaving into the stack the remaining ones.

On the other hand, I fetch for Volcanic really carefully and I always leave me the option to search for them.

I also do not agree that challice one is a strong play against gifts, IMO chalice zero slows them down much more, and stunting gifts mana growth is key in winning the matchup.  If they have a challice zero out already then and only then could I see them thinking about challice one, but again I still think two is stronger, esp. since most gifts decks are also running scroll which gets hit at two.

We could talk about this argument for almost forever, but I want to add a deeper insight before dropping this argument at all: It depends on the game and when you are going to face thos damned chalices.

Early chalices are good at a lower cc.
If you had resolved a couple of moxen, playing it for 1 or 2 is better.
If opponents are fearing your game ending 3cc spells, you would play them at 3.
If he used some of his resources, you have to accomodate the cc of the chalices according to those previous plays.

This a percentage-game, you can calculate how many good cards are you going to lose with single chalices during the early turns of the game.

If you face CotV@0 and @1 before you build your own mana on table, you are going to pitch ALL you 4cc spells to FoW, if you are lucky.
If you are going to face CotV@2 after you resolve some mana, they are almost a non issue at all. You can go around them in thousands of ways but it isn't part of my arguments.

Here I'm going to underline some crucial different things.

Statistically speaking,
MDGifts, usually suffer CotV@0 and CotV@2 more than any other Chalice
Control-Gifts, usually suffer CotV@0 and CotV@1

With the word "suffer", I'm mean "high percentage of dead cards in our hands".

I usually dont cast gifts for solutions to problems, I use tutor effects or card draw to find them, when I cast gifts I want to win the game on my next turn.  Yes, it can be used as a tutor into my "toolbox" but I like to think of it as my win spell, in a game where it resolves, I should be winning. 

I suppose that my previous lines would explain why sometimes, bad timing and the lack of a good  mana development would prevent you from playing "winning" Gifts during opponents' EoT.


Maxx

But you are missing the part where repeals are a catch all, they arent soley there to bounce challice, they can bounce anything, sure  they cant bounce challice for one, or zero if a cotv 1 is out.  But they bounce the threats that I have to deal with until I can draw into a bomb.  Im not arguing into you changing your list because I know I would not change my list either if someone told me too.  Your list works for you, and my list works for me, I understand there is logic behind every card you play in your deck and every choice you make.  I have also taken all this logic into putting together my own deck and I have decided this to be the absolute best list for ME to play.  As for how I play the deck that is realative to my play style as using gifts as more of a combo-control deck than stictly control.

Im not sure he is talking about nights whisper in that situation, yes he mentions it in the previous sentence, but only as something he has just begun to think about.  Either way I do believe that thirst is much better than nights whisper as it is an instant and digs one card deeper for one more mana, sure at best it nets the same amount of cards, but digging deeper is more of an issue usually.
[/quote
]As for the Scroll-issue, diopter got it right, I look for a spell that fixes mana for a cost of two or less but is not as crappy as Sleight of Hand. This is the only reason I think about going below four Scrolls at all, because for any other purpose, Scroll is simply superior.
Thirst for Knowledge is in my opinion a rather crappy card for Gifts-variants. It does not fix my mana early enough because it costs 3 and at the same time usually forces me to discard the mana I search for or have cast a three mana card that is worse than Impulse at two. I might run one, just to have more options for the draw-Gifts once I have established my mana, but even there I'm rather sceptical. I think both Night's Whisper and Skeletal Scrying (just because you can play it for B1 if necessary and you never have to discard the mana you're searching) are superior to TfK for Gifted, as is Bob (TfKs value changes once you include more rather weak artifacts like Titan, Crypt or Explosives MD, though, but that is an error in itself, imo).

Remember you do not always need to play your moxen out as soon as you draw them, in a lot of situations it is much better to hold onto off color moxen.  They will thus add to storm, or in some cases pitch to a thirst if the other cards are better than such.

No, but if you can actually just keep your mana in hand, you drew enough mana, typically meaning you win anyway, especially if you can Scroll for Gifts instead of playing TfK....

CotV: I think 0 is still the most dangerous number, because after first turn, you can use your Brainstorm in response and get your fixing. Amusingly, the biggest reason I think CotV hurts so much is one that Gaagooch considered strategically bad: I can not do the Mana-Gifts into Will any more. Not being able to go for Lotus with Will disarms your early assault quite a bit, too. Overall, everything that doesn't attack my manabase is a lot less of a threat to me than what does.

I usually dont cast gifts for solutions to problems, I use tutor effects or card draw to find them, when I cast gifts I want to win the game on my next turn.  Yes, it can be used as a tutor into my "toolbox" but I like to think of it as my win spell, in a game where it resolves, I should be winning.

This is where all the argument  comes from and even the existence of the old SSB. You're using Gifts Ungiven, while the rest of the players here abuses it by utilising all the options it offers instead of seeing it as a finisher. Once you resolve Gifts, even for the utility piles, you usually win, exactly because it gives you the solution plus a chosen bonus-card. As an aside, the more artifact mana I have, the more likely is it that Gifts "just wins", so why would I run TfK and discard the arti-mana?

Repeal: I'd love to have room to play more solutions, but as usually CoV and Rebuild/Hurkyl's are enough to solve stuff, I'd rather include more spells that are better at finding me mana or cards to win with. Don't get me wrong, I really like repeal, I just don't see me ever running it over Merchant Scrolls.

ToA maindeck: I was always skeptical about running more than just Wish and DSC for winning, as usually you have no problems with killing the opponent once you overpowered them. What Tendrils md allows, though, is to easier use a one turn opening to actually end it right there and then instead of having to keep fighting. This is the reason why, atm, I start liking that option more and more. It also reduces your need for red mana immensely, which is nice.

Im abusing Gifts just as much as the next guy, but it is the win spell in the deck, yes sometimes it wont win you the game and will merely help set up a win, but most of the time once you resolve gifts you win the game.  Playing thirst in my deck meaning it has more raw drawing power usually means I never have problems with mana and thus do not need to waste many gifts piles on four mana sources.  Pitching a mox here and there to thirst is also not always a bad thing.  Do not forget that you are also going to draw cards throughout the course of the game that you really dont need in your hand.  (Darksteel Collosus, ToA, Tormods crypt, Recoup)  Im not saying that you will always draw these cards as it is a rather short list of cards, but obv. other cards are situational as well, but you can discard two cards to thirst and still be in relatively good shape.  I think thirst optomizes gifts to the point where gifts does become your winning card, or the finisher.  I fail to see how im not abusing gifts just as much as the next person because I tend not to use it for four mana sources?