Optimizing Control Slaver in the Fall 2k6 metagame

[Special K]

I didn't mean to miss-lead anyone but I wasn't using sarcasm

[forests failed you]

I'm shocked you don't know about this card it could be a possible addition to whatever uba-crap decklist that is currently be tested or what not.

How is this not sarcasm Arend?????   Fire Imp in Uba Stax for serious?????  You are such a kidder.

So what do you guys think Big Dups for Richmond or Trike?

[M.Solymossy]

Big Dups

[Evenpence]

Big Dups

[forests failed you]

haha, agree.  Big Dups is the stone awesome.

[Disburden]

This thread was very interesting. I was rather dissapointed by the deterioration of the thread after the lack of analysis on page 5. I have been frustrated off and on by Control Slaver as a deck to properly build. I always turn back to this deck though, as something I really adore. I will admit, though, I am now playing Meandeck Gifts. The only deck I can think of that is more frustrating to build correctly than Slaver is probably 5c Stax. There was a time when I thought the Night's Whisper version was probably best. After playing a ton of games with that build, though, I didn't like the slanting of the color organization that those three cards caused in the deck. Another thread that I was very interesting in was Demars' "Go big, or Go home" Thread on his list of Slaver with Gifts, Memory Jar, etc. I thought this was probably the most broken version of Slaver I have ever seen. But the lack of Big artifacts besides DSC and only two Welders brought of a very good discussion. Why play that deck over Meandeck Gifts? The answer was pretty unclear. To me, it seemed that the only answer was, "Because I like to use Mindslaver". That didn't seem too convincing to me.

Then I saw Brian Demars went 11-1-1 on one of his tournament reports soon after the before mentioned thread was started. The list, which was rather odd for the time, was his same old Burning Slavery list from some time ago. Funny how the list returned after there seemed to be a more broken list now availible. More Broken? Maybe not. All I can say is after this report, I was thoroughly impressed. I decided to test the list out and see if it was all piloting skill with a bad deck, or not (This is where I would now post Brian Demars' list but it is already on this thread and availible pretty much everywhere you can think of).

This is probably the best version of Control Slaver I have ever played, imo. Burning Wish is absolutely awesome as a ultility card. It gets you so many options against pretty much everything. The only downside is that you won't be able to run four SOR in the side against combo. The bright side is you can Wish for Duress. It also doesn't run the most overrated land of recent memory, Library of Alexandria. Do you know how many games I have drawn that card late into the game and wished it was Strip mine? Too many. It just doesn't do enough anymore. Turn one it is amazing. Turn four-end game it sucks. Now I know there is going to be a few responses about how Library "just wins games". I do understand that point for argument, but also you can win off strip mine, which doesn't just sit there as a Wasteland target while you try to build your hand for several turns, losing tempo in the process.

Cards that are awesome in this deck:
Goblin Welder (More so than any other list I can find right now.)
Crucible of Worlds
Strip mine
Gifts Ungiven
Sundering Titan* (I used to worship DSC, but in this deck eating lands and using Strip mine is GG).
Burning Wish* (As utility it is great. I am unsure of the Tendrils win though. I use it a lot less than I do in Gifts).
**I do not use Duplicant as I see aggro a lot and would rather just ping them with Triskelion. This is probably bad anywhere else though. Duping a DSC/Titan/anything else big is just awesome.

Cards not in the deck, which I feel, shouldn't be in Control Slaver:

Merchant Scroll - As somebody that plays Meandeck Gifts more than anything else, I will say that I am truely in love with this card. It does everything you would ever want... in THAT deck. In this deck, it is shockingly weaker and dissapointing. If you use it in Slaver then you probably use it as a one or two-of. This means you're not untapping the true potential of this card, which it is in Gifts. In Gifts you use this card throughout the entire game to get Gifts, Ancestral, and more importantly counter magic. In this deck it is a one shot deal and you already run a draw engine, not a tutor engine. This card is really good and probably someday restriction worthy. But only in a deck that runs this card as a four-of will that happen. I feel that Vampiric Tutor, Mystical tutor, and Demonic tutor are probably enough (with TFK) to get everything you need in Control Slaver. The next card I am going to mention is from the same deck.

Misdirection - Another card from Meandeck Gifts. Ofcourse is has been used in many other decks over the years, but most importantly right now it is used in Pitchlong and MDG. I will admit that I have not yet tried this card in a full testing gauntlet within a Control Slaver deck. Just from outside analysis of this card I feel it would just be dissapointing, just like Merchant Scroll always is. I doubt you're going to be able to Misdirect decks that are using this card more efficiently. If I want to squeeze in a full compliment of Scrolls along with Misdirection then why am I not playing the deck designed to use them better? Because using Mindslaver is cool? Since when is that a solid argument? These are the questions I ask myself when I see lists where it seems the player wants their petdeck to be something else, but they are in denial.

Fact Or Fiction - I seriously am starting to hate this card in Slaver. I have never used it to where it has won me a game just on it's own. I have lost games where this resolved and for four mana, I would just run Gifts instead. Gifts gets what you want, it gets Slaver and big artifacts as well as the Strip Mine Lock. Fact can just suck when you need it to be really good for you. Same Mana as Gifts and not as good as Gifts when you run so many different threat components. If you're not going to run Gifts then the Fact slot should just be something else useful for your metagame, or maybe Memory Jar.

Other Cards that may be worthy in (Non or) Burning Wish lists

Tendrils of Agony - I don't want to sound repetitive. So I'll just say that Gifts uses this win condition better and I hardly use it in Burning Slavery. Wish is good for finding answers and Deep analysis. Meandeck Gifts plays this main now, which is even faster than before. I can see the usefulness of the win, but is it good enough here?

Fire/Ice - I have always liked this card as a random answer to a metagame. Right now, though, it seems worse than ever and just not powerful enough. I think if Slaver wants to compete it has to become stronger and not try to be Gifts at the same time. This is what lead me to cut this card and adapt to a more broken Demars' Style list.

Memory Jar - I really like playing around with this card. I think it's really good, but so far I would just like to Strip lock someone and win. Memory Jar can be clunky sometimes. I am still on the fence about this card though because using Welder to draw 14 cards in one turn is pretty much the most broken thing ever.

Wipe Away - I just don't like it. It seems chunky with double U and probably at best a Sideboard card. If I used it maindecked it would probably be used to cast Force of Will more than anything else. 

With all this said, if I was to play Control Slaver seriously right now, my list would look like so:
Critters:
1 Sundering Titan
1 Triskelion
3 Goblin Welder
1 Gorilla Shaman

Control Elements:
4 Mana Drains
4 Force of Will
1 chain of vapor/ another bounce depending on Tendrils.

Draw and Tutors:
4 Thirsts
4 Brainstorm
1 Mystical
1 Vamp
1 Demonic
1 Gifts Ungiven

Artifacts:
5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal * Demars doesn't use this, which I feel is wrong. I would much rather have this over two bounce spells. Drain= Good.
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mindslaver (With Gifts Ungiven, one is enough.)
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 tormod's Crypt

Wins:
Yawgmoth's Will
Time Walk
Tinker
Ancestral Recall * (this is meant to be a joke over SCG discussions)
Burning Wish (I do have Tendrils in my board, but like I said, it's not used much).

Land:
1 Strip mine
3 Polluted Delta* I would much rather have 5 fetches over a Citadel. I don't like lands that don't make blue mana and I already have Strip mine here.
2 Flooded Strand
3 Island (could use combinations of snow-covered, whatever. I have never Gifted for snow lands. Also fifth fetch could be another basic)
Tolarian Academy
3 Volcanic island
2 Underground Sea


Sideboard:
1 DA
1 Rolling Earthquake (This card is crazy good)
1 Tendrils
3 REb
3 Duress
1 Jens (not sure here)
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 more slots for Wish/Meta.

With everything I have said here I hope that I have resurrected the thread and in doing so have brought more discussion. Control Slaver is a very good deck and I would like to see people talk about it more often instead of just seeing it as a piece of dead meat on the side of the road. It is far from it. It is just something completely hard to build correctly, as I mentioned in the first paragraph. Thanks for reading my post.

Nick

[hitman]

Recoup is busted in this deck.  I threw it in for fun once and I never took it out.  I've taken 5 turns in a row with this card (only once though)!  I've been able to replay Tinker or get it out of the graveyard.  The list of cards it's good with is pretty big:  D.T., Tinker, Yawg Will, Burning Wish, Time Walk, D.A., Pyroclasm, and Duress.  I haven't been playing Slaver very much lately but I always get around to testing it against whatever deck I'm playing at the moment.  I agree with Disburden.  Slaver is still very strong. 

Sidenote -  What do you guys think of Lightning Dart in the sideboard?  The 1st turn Welder with Bazaar hurts when I have no Force.  I've been thinking I need a faster answer to Welder than Triskelion.  Stax shouldn't Chalice for 2 against Slaver.  It kills Grunt, too.  I think it gives me more options than Fire/Ice in the sideboard.

[Outlaw]

Recoup is busted in this deck.  I threw it in for fun once and I never took it out.  I've taken 5 turns in a row with this card (only once though)!  I've been able to replay Tinker or get it out of the graveyard.  The list of cards it's good with is pretty big:  D.T., Tinker, Yawg Will, Burning Wish, Time Walk, D.A., Pyroclasm, and Duress.  I haven't been playing Slaver very much lately but I always get around to testing it against whatever deck I'm playing at the moment.  I agree with Disburden.  Slaver is still very strong. 

Sidenote -  What do you guys think of Lightning Dart in the sideboard?  The 1st turn Welder with Bazaar hurts when I have no Force.  I've been thinking I need a faster answer to Welder than Triskelion.  Stax shouldn't Chalice for 2 against Slaver.  It kills Grunt, too.  I think it gives me more options than Fire/Ice in the sideboard.

Why would you run recoup in control slaver when you could just play a deck thats specifically geared to abuse it more?  And Recoup is hardly very good with Deep Analysis? I dont completely understand running gifts ungiven in control slaver either?  You dont abuse it in a way that Gifts does, its used as a more clunky inuition isnt it?  Also a turn 1 welder can be answered still by lava dart and darkblast, and they ensure that it stays dead. 

[hitman]

Sorry I wasn't more clear.  I didn't mean they were "good" necessarily.  I meant these are the options you have to use them with in the deck.  I just listed the sorceries.  In the harder matchups, Recoup has saved me because they couldn't wipe my graveyard in time and I could replay a game winning spell.  It makes their counters a little less relevant for the bombs in the deck, it makes the gifts piles harder, it lets me reuse D.T. and Time Walk early on to get me ahead.  As a one of, I like it better than Lotus Petal because I'll be more likely to have it when I need it.  The argument for Lotus Petal is first turn Drain.  I use to play it but i had it so rarely that I cut it when I put Recoup in.  Recoup can be relevant every game but Petal wasn't for me.  It worked for me so I never took it out.

[Disburden]

Recoup is busted in this deck.  I threw it in for fun once and I never took it out.  I've taken 5 turns in a row with this card (only once though)!  I've been able to replay Tinker or get it out of the graveyard.  The list of cards it's good with is pretty big:  D.T., Tinker, Yawg Will, Burning Wish, Time Walk, D.A., Pyroclasm, and Duress.  I haven't been playing Slaver very much lately but I always get around to testing it against whatever deck I'm playing at the moment.  I agree with Disburden.  Slaver is still very strong. 

Sidenote -  What do you guys think of Lightning Dart in the sideboard?  The 1st turn Welder with Bazaar hurts when I have no Force.  I've been thinking I need a faster answer to Welder than Triskelion.  Stax shouldn't Chalice for 2 against Slaver.  It kills Grunt, too.  I think it gives me more options than Fire/Ice in the sideboard.

Why would you run recoup in control slaver when you could just play a deck thats specifically geared to abuse it more?  And Recoup is hardly very good with Deep Analysis? I dont completely understand running gifts ungiven in control slaver either?  You dont abuse it in a way that Gifts does, its used as a more clunky inuition isnt it?  Also a turn 1 welder can be answered still by lava dart and darkblast, and they ensure that it stays dead. 

This was the biggest point in my post. Thanks, Outlaw. Why run cards from Gifts when Gifts is just absolutely better at abusing those cards two fold? Also I run Petal for firs turn Drain possibilities, true. I also use it because I don't run Citadel. This is important since it balances out the fact that you lose an artifact without Citadel in the deck like Demars uses.

[Prometheon]

Why would you run recoup in control slaver when you could just play a deck thats specifically geared to abuse it more? 

I see this argument come up all the time, and it just seems stupid to me. Just because one deck uses a card "really well" doesn't mean that it shouldn't be included in other decks where it is still powerful. If I run Bazaar in my Stax deck, should I cut it because "if you want to run Bazaar, why not run a deck designed to abuse it, like Ichorid or Dragon?"

Obviously a deck with 1 Gifts Ungiven isn't going to abuse Recoup as well as a deck with 4, but does that somehow make Recoup a terrible card in Slaver? No, and it's a logical fallacy to think it does.

[Komatteru]

What sorceries do you plan to Recoup?  Let's see.  There's Demonic Tutor, Tinker, Time Walk and....that's it.  The others shouldn't be in the graveyard, otherwise something has gone wrong.  You shouldn't need to Recoup Tinker unless you're awful (since you should have won already with the Tinker), so that leaves a whole two other cards.  Of course, you're meaning to set up Will with a Gifts Ungiven (of which there is probably a single copy)...you can do that by getting VT, MT, DT, and Lotus with the Gifts--and hey, all those cards do something on their own!

[Prometheon]

I'm not saying Recoup is neccessarily a good card in Slaver, I was just saying that the argument "if you're gonna run card x, you may as well just play deck y instead, because it utilizes it better" is extremely poor.

[forests failed you]

I think that with the speed of the Metagame right now, Tormod's Crypt in a MUST include in the maindeck.  It has been really good to me lately.  Ichorid, Long Variants, and Gifts are all extremely popular at the moment, and Tormod's Crypt is the best tempo based answer to all of these decks in most situations.

Also, I've been cheating on mana and running only 24 sources in the last few events.  I think it is fine, and it hasn't been a problem.

My janky mana base is as follows.

3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Snow Island

2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand

1 Tolerian Academy

1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl

1 Mana Vault
1 Sold RIng
1 Mana Crypt

1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus

[Outlaw]

Why would you run recoup in control slaver when you could just play a deck thats specifically geared to abuse it more? 

I see this argument come up all the time, and it just seems stupid to me. Just because one deck uses a card "really well" doesn't mean that it shouldn't be included in other decks where it is still powerful. If I run Bazaar in my Stax deck, should I cut it because "if you want to run Bazaar, why not run a deck designed to abuse it, like Ichorid or Dragon?"

Obviously a deck with 1 Gifts Ungiven isn't going to abuse Recoup as well as a deck with 4, but does that somehow make Recoup a terrible card in Slaver? No, and it's a logical fallacy to think it does.

Well simply put... Why dont run a card that does something better than something that does something sub-par?  Gifts is built to use gifts and recoup to make their opponent have no correct pile to give to you upon casting.  1 Gifts is an over costed Intuition (setting up a lock isnt necessary, its just flashy), and why run Recoup when the cards you would be recouping (like JD said) shouldnt be in the yard anyways?  You get access to basically DT and Time Walk, and  therefore wouldnt another card just would be more suited in its position?

[forests failed you]

1 Gifts is fine.  Its a bomb.

It is basically a good Fact or Fiction.

If FoF were a better card drawer I would play it.  But its not.  Gifts is a more versitile card that ALWAYS hits.  Unlike FoF.

[Outlaw]

1 Gifts is fine.  Its a bomb.

It is basically a good Fact or Fiction.

If FoF were a better card drawer I would play it.  But its not.  Gifts is a more versitile card that ALWAYS hits.  Unlike FoF.

What are your normal Gifts targets?  Cause if it is in fact mystical, vamp, demonic and lotus like perhaps how JD said to find will, Imperial seal finds will for B.  If your using it to put big dumb artifacts into the bin Entomb does that for B or Intuition for 2U.

[MuzzonoAmi]

Gifts gets whatever you need. You need to think of as a Fact where you get to chose the top cards of your library, not as a super tutor.

[Metman]

I've played a single Gifts Ungiven in Slaver for a while now.  The game state really depends on what I get but an early Gifts on turn two or three more often than not a grab Demonic, Time Walk, Ancestral Recall, and Tinker.  There isn't an easy way out of it for the oppenent.  They have to give you Time Walk and Ancestral because Demonic gets Yawg and no deck abuses Tinker like Slaver.  Forcing an oppentent to give you a Time Walk and Goblin Welder is also devastating.  Already have Goblin Welder online?  Grab the 4 biggies.

The problem with putting Entomb and ImpSeal MD is that they are too narrow, especially Entomb.  I had considered Intuition but hate the idea of the oppenent getting to chose which goes into my hand.  With Gifts you can force certain cards in hand.  I think that if Intuition were played in Slaver you would find it to be either an expensive way of finding Ancestral recall or an expensive way of tutoring for Yawg or Tinker.  For one more cc in Gifts you get an aditional card, which is well worth it.

[SonataOfTheCathedral]

What I find myself often doing with Gifts Ungiven is playing it EoT, for just Mindslaver and 7/10. Weld whichever flavor I need in Eot.

[forests failed you]

I do everything with Gifts.  It just gets there.

Sometimes you want to Entomb, sometimes you want to gas up, sometimes you want to set up a Yawgmoth's Will.  It depends upon the scenerio.  A common pile is after you Yawgmoth's Will and cast time walk, you just Mystical for Gifts and set up a Slaver lock.  Plus, it is really spicy for setting up the Tendrils Win.  This has been a big factor in game threes where I am at risk of drawing.

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

I do everything with Gifts.  It just gets there.

Sometimes you want to Entomb, sometimes you want to gas up, sometimes you want to set up a Yawgmoth's Will.  It depends upon the scenerio.

This is it exactly.  Certain cards like Entomb, Intuition, and Fact or Fiction may be more efficent at serving specific purposes or in certain situations, but they are narrower.  Gifts' versatility is what makes it better.  I really didn't understand this until I actual started playing with the card.  It really is amazing.

[forests failed you]

Also, I tutor for Gifts a lot playing Control Slaver.  Fof is usually at its best in a midgame top deck war.  In that kind of situation GIfts is almost always better, because it draws you more cards, and gives you a higher quality of cards than Fact can.

[The Atog Lord]

I hate to beat a dead horse, but the basic question remains. If using Gifts Ungiven, why not simply scrap the Control Slaver cards and build a deck around Gifts itself?

Consider Meandeck Gifts -- a Gifts Ungiven is usually game-ending in this deck, and it requires no clunky or bulky setup card like Goblin Welder. Meandeck Gifts further handles combo much better than Control Slaver -- Misdirection and Merchant Scroll are much better in the crucial early game than clunky cards like Mindslaver or Duplicant. Moreover, Meandeck Gifts is simply better able to leverage Gifts than Control Slaver.

I don't mean this to say that Gifts is better than Control Slaver; I've defended Control Slaver against that accusation many times myself. However, if building Control Slaver with multiple copies of Gifts, I suppose that I'm not clear on how that is actually better than a dedicated Gifts deck.

[Outlaw]

I hate to beat a dead horse, but the basic question remains. If using Gifts Ungiven, why not simply scrap the Control Slaver cards and build a deck around Gifts itself?

Consider Meandeck Gifts -- a Gifts Ungiven is usually game-ending in this deck, and it requires no clunky or bulky setup card like Goblin Welder. Meandeck Gifts further handles combo much better than Control Slaver -- Misdirection and Merchant Scroll are much better in the crucial early game than clunky cards like Mindslaver or Duplicant. Moreover, Meandeck Gifts is simply better able to leverage Gifts than Control Slaver.

I don't mean this to say that Gifts is better than Control Slaver; I've defended Control Slaver against that accusation many times myself. However, if building Control Slaver with multiple copies of Gifts, I suppose that I'm not clear on how that is actually better than a dedicated Gifts deck.

Thats exactly what I was trying to touch base on earlier, there must be a better card that can go in that slot for control slaver that would be much more efficient.

[warble]

if building Control Slaver with multiple copies of Gifts, I suppose that I'm not clear on how that is actually better than a dedicated Gifts deck.

As my current build of Control Slaver includes multiple copies of Gifts Ungiven, I'll chime in here.  Control Slaver, as you have stated many times, is a deck that is able to win by inches.  Gifts Ungiven is a deck that explodes, or loses, in the first couple of turns.  While both decks are extremely vulnerable early, Gifts Ungiven ensures the quality of its cards and "it's winning chance" by running mystical scroll, 4 copies of Gifts, more protection, and a stable basic island mana base.  As a result of this, it would appear that Gifts Ungiven has a "stronger early game" than control slaver, while possessing many of the same vulnerabilities.  However, what are the threats that CS can take care of easily that Gifts has issues with?

One, and certainly the most obvious, would be STAX.  Running Rebuild is a simple answer, but there is a very real possibility that the mana development of the gifts deck can be completely destroyed by STAX and this would mean that the STAX deck wins.  CS, quite simply, has more answers.  With more metagame slots open, CS is more adaptable and able to take down specific metagames.  Does this mean that Gifts cannot do the same thing?  Certainly, because CS is attempting to survive the early game with the knowledge that a late game against anything except Gifts/Dragon will be a landslide.  Gifts, against any deck with mana denial, relies solely on it's island mana development and fast wins to get it out of the early game.  It's a very reliable plan, but not adaptable.  Thus, to slaughter I would play CS metagamed, while to have more consistent wins I would play Gifts.

Stating that one deck has a more consistent early game plan against all decks while another has a more versatile, finnicky early game plan that can be unstoppable would be precisely what a comparison between Gifts and CS yields.  Back to the issue of Gifts Ungiven, this consistency versus versatility is precisely why Control Slaver cannot support a full complement of 4 Gifts Ungiven.  Those slots are dedicated to the CS gameplan, to the early answers, and to the metagaming.  To run a full complement of Gifts Ungivens would be suboptimal because CS never, ever wants to be boxed into a single gameplan.  To do this would completely change the way CS is played and reduce the number of metagame slots.

To answer the presence of Gifts in the metagame, I personally advocate the use of Gifts' protection engine (2 Misdirection) in Control Slaver.  While it appears that this is just copying Gifts, in fact it is utilizing two metagame slots to completely undo the entire advantage that Gifts has over CS.  Sure, Gifts might have a pyroblast in the main to swing the advantage back a little, but once the early Ancestral vanishes Gifts vs CS is almost even (riding on top of an early mindslaver activation, as always).  This is because after the initial turns, our Gifts will win with protection just as easy as the Gifts player's Gifts.  That means more win conditions for Control Slaver, at instant speed.  That's a heck of a reason to play Gifts in CS.

[Outlaw]

This is because after the initial turns, our Gifts will win with protection just as easy as the Gifts player's Gifts.  That means more win conditions for Control Slaver, at instant speed.  That's a heck of a reason to play Gifts in CS.

But this isnt quite true, because when I cast Gifts (I am a dedicated gifts player) I am going to win the game.  When a CS player casts Gifts it may put them in a position to win the game, but lacking cards that Gifts has prevents them from sealing the deal on the spot. 

[hitman]

I know Slaver decks don't abuse Gifts like decks dedicated to it but the point of Slaver decks is to overwhelm the opponent with small advantages that just win.  Gifts is insane at doing that.  Gifts is just an insane card.  You could probably fit it into a lot of blue decks and it will do well in them.  Slaver doesn't usually combo so Gifts won't give you the one turn win most of the time (though it definitely could).  Gifts decks are designed to win quickly.  Slaver wins slower so Gifts effect on the game will be slower, too.  It's just how it's used.  It's used in Slaver to advance the Slaver gameplan way ahead of where it would be without it.  It's used in Gifts decks to advance their gameplan way ahead of where it would be without it.  It's like saying Welder shouldn't be used in Slaver because it's even better in Stax. 

[Prometheon]

I hate to beat a dead horse, but the basic question remains. If using Gifts Ungiven, why not simply scrap the Control Slaver cards and build a deck around Gifts itself?

Consider Meandeck Gifts -- a Gifts Ungiven is usually game-ending in this deck, and it requires no clunky or bulky setup card like Goblin Welder. Meandeck Gifts further handles combo much better than Control Slaver -- Misdirection and Merchant Scroll are much better in the crucial early game than clunky cards like Mindslaver or Duplicant. Moreover, Meandeck Gifts is simply better able to leverage Gifts than Control Slaver.

I don't mean this to say that Gifts is better than Control Slaver; I've defended Control Slaver against that accusation many times myself. However, if building Control Slaver with multiple copies of Gifts, I suppose that I'm not clear on how that is actually better than a dedicated Gifts deck.

I am still not seeing this logic. At all. It's generally accepted that Tinker -> Memory Jar is runnable in Slaver, but Tinker -> Jar is SO much more broken in Long decks. If you're gonna run Tinker-Jar you may as well play Long. Arend's slaver list runs maindeck Misdirections. Everyone knows that Misdirection is a card that's good in pitchlong and gifts. He must be crazy.

In fact, if you're going to run Yawgmoth's Will, why not just play Grim or Pitch Long? They abuse it so much better with all of their fast mana!

Just because one deck abuses the hell out of a card does make that card exempt from inclusion in other decks. Gifts is a busted card, and Gifts (the deck) abuses that brokeness to a very large extent. Just because Slaver isn't built around the card doesn't mean that it can't contribute to Slaver's gameplan. There is no royal decree that says "if you're going to run card x, you may as well just make the 59-56 card leap and play deck y instead."

[hitman]

I don't know if this has already been discussed but has anyone tried Mana Leak to improve the early game.  Maybe 3 would be good.  It's not uncommon to have a blue land drop and an off color mox.  3 Leaks would help the Slaver keep in control of the early game while setting up.  4's too many cause you pretty much only want it early and as maybe a 1-of.  3 should consistently get one in your opening hand.  2 may not be worth the space cause it may not be consistent enough.  A lot of people run Lotus Petal to help the odds of a blue artifact and blue land drop turn one for Drain but maybe Leak would be better than trying to depend on cards like Petal for the early game.  I don't want to lost a colored mana source that early in the game.