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Author Topic: U/W Control  (Read 3599 times)
wraith985
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thewangbanger
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« on: September 28, 2006, 04:28:48 pm »

This is my take on U/W:

Land (24)
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Adarkar Wastes
2 Azorius Chancery
8 Island
6 Plains

Creatures (7)
4 Court Hussar
3 Serra Avenger

Instants (20)
4 Mana Leak/Remand
4 Rune Snag
4 Cancel
3 Repeal
3 Condemn
2 Tidings

Sorceries (7)
4 Compulsive Research
3 Wrath of God

Enchantments (2)
2 Sacred Mesa

I personally think Serra Avenger is pretty sweet (we just had this discussion on #TMD); combined with Court Hussar and the board control/counterspell package in the deck, I don't know if the deck could ever actually lose to aggro, barring an insane draw. It beats for 3, trades for random 3/3, leaves you counter mana open on turn 4, and on and on it goes. It also wins the game in 7 turns while just sitting around holding off weenies. I think the key is just being willing to trade it off for random 3/3 to preserve life points; it's not actually the win condition per se, though it certainly helps. I considered Akroma for a slot, but it's just super expensive - 8 mana is a bit much to swallow. Sacred Mesa is the win condition for this deck; it's just amazing. Counter Disenchant and Stone Rain and you're golden. Finally, I think Compulsive Research + Tidings is just a superior draw suite to Whispers/Think Twice/Careful Consideration; especially Tidings, where you basically just win the game when it resolves. Six mana is a lot to pay for one card, even if it is one card every turn.

EDIT: Sideboard options - CoP: Red, Disenchant, Teferi, the 4th Wrath and Condemn, maybe some Ghost Quarters or something. Osyp had the idea of using the Shadow Looter dude in the control mirror and that sounds pretty good too Smile

Anyway, this is all just theory, so take it as you will.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2006, 04:42:53 pm by wraith985 » Logged
Roxas
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« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2006, 06:54:49 pm »

I just took wraith's list for a spin, with -1 Cancel +1 Wrath, -2 Tidings +2 Careful Consideration. It's been doing pretty well. As we discussed in IRC, I don't feel that Avenger necessarily helps the deck win more often, but it does help win the deck win sooner. While this might feel like "win more," I imagine that it would help the deck more frequently win a match inside of fifty minutes.
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« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2006, 07:09:21 pm »

Why no Flagstones?
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wraith985
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« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2006, 08:32:14 pm »

No particular reason, just decided to go with basics to see how the mana works out. Flagstones can substitute for basic Plains later, I guess.
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Roxas
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« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2006, 01:31:42 am »

After a shitload more testing, I have made the following changes to wraith's list:

-1 Cancel
-4 Compulsive Research
-2 Tidings
-1 Adarkar Wastes
+4 Think Twice
+2 Careful Consideration
+1 Urza's Factory
+1 Wrath of God

I know I was skeptical about Think Twice before, but after playing a bunch, I realized that this deck really, really wants to have as many of its cards as possible be instants. Also, Compulsive Research is a fairly juicy target for counters; Think Twice isn't, because if they counter it, it's the same card advantage either way. Similarly, Careful Consideration is valuable if you want to leave countermagic open in case of Rumbling Slum or Giant Solifuge or some other huge guy, but at the same time need/want to dig. In control mirrors, the discard is almost irrelevant since you're just going to dump your Wraths and Condemns.

Also, Sacred Mesa is super mega ultra awesome. Its reprinting is almost surely a conspiracy by Hasbro to sell more My Little Pony toys, but wow does it win a lot of games. It basically auto-wins a control mirror if it resolves, and it also usually ends the game against aggro once you reach enough mana to make a couple tokens a turn while also leaving countermagic up. Still, I think two is the right number, because you rarely want multiples and the Angels are better in the midgame.

My current sideboard is:
4 Circle of Protection: Red
4 Sacred Ground
4 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
3 Disenchant
« Last Edit: September 30, 2006, 11:57:15 am by Roxas » Logged

Machinus
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« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2006, 02:11:51 am »

After looking over the card pool I've been thinking a little about UW in the new standard, mainly for reference. Does anyone know what this deck is going to look like? What about this:

4 Whelk
4 Wrath
4 Cancel
4 Repeal
4 Think Twice
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
4 Whispers   
4 Condemn   
         
10 Island
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Adarkar   
4 Plains
2 Chancery   
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« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2006, 11:37:54 am »

That seems like an interesting change Roxas.  The Urza's Factory definitely needs to go in, I've been playing the list a bit too and have seen others with [the factory], it is really strong.  Is Think Twice strong enough to sub for research?  I haven't played it outside limited, but will definitely give that a shot.  Looks like it is getting to be a pretty good list.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2006, 12:42:57 pm by LordHomerCat » Logged

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Roxas
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« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2006, 01:29:50 pm »

Enemy utility lands such as Scrying Sheets and the UrzaTron are proving to be problematic. I'm now cutting Urza's Factory, another Adarkar Wastes, and an Island for three Ghost Quarters.
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wraith985
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« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2006, 07:13:12 pm »

Think Twice is really good...gives you something to do with that spare mana that you're going to have lying around. I endorse that change wholeheartedly.
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Anusien
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« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2006, 10:46:27 am »

Think Twice gives you double the card advantage that any other solution does before turn 7 or so for the same mana cost.  It's really, deceptively good.
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« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2006, 01:43:59 am »

My very brief flirtation with Type 2 saw me develop an affection for Perilous Research, principally in combination with Flagstones of Trokair.  This combination nets a card at instant speed for 1 blue and 1 other and fixes mana.  I tried Chromatic Star to additionally fuel Research in the absense of a Flagstones and otherwise fix mana again (Lightning Helix so sorely tempted me).  The tempo loss of 1 colourless that Chromatic Star effects (in being cast) I found negligible - I was looking for something to do on turn 1 anyway.  Lategame, Perilous Research on it's own is fine, cycling excess lands or signets.  It's also a nice response to any removal aimed at my side of the board.  I even tried it in combination with Vexing Spirit, who can be damn handy even on his own provided you pay the upkeep only once or twice (though by all means ditch your hand to swing for the win).  I wanted a deck that beat control in the style of Weisman's old Roc Deck.  One incarnation appeared thus.

24 lands

4 Looter il-Kor / Lightning Helix
4 Serra Avenger
4 Vexing Sphinx

4 Ancestral Vision
4 Perilous Research
4 Chromatic Sphere / Psionic Blast
4 Condemn
4 Remand
4 Spell Snare

Ancestral Vision got me the cards (against aggro at least) but those cards weren't cheap or busted enough to abuse the massive tempo that Ancestral traditionally provides (you don't draw moxen).  A fun experiment anyway.  The best cards were Perilous Research (with 4 Flagstones of Trokair), Remand and possibly Condem.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2006, 03:50:11 am by Pave » Logged
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