Mini Shahrazad, but not

[Norm4eva]

CARDNAME
WW
Sorcery

Each player chooses one permanent they control of each type and chooses one card in hand.  (The permanent types are artifact, creature, enchantment, and land.)  Players play a MAGIC subgame starting with these permanents in play and these cards in hand.  Each player who doesn't win the subgame loses 5 life.  If the game is a draw, both players gain 5 life.
Players in the subgame can't draw cards and don't lose the game if they can't draw a card.

Okay, that might be too much text.  Basically I'm trying to force the players to play 3CB.  WW is probably not the right casting cost - on the play this is huge in the first 3 turns - but I'm using Shah as a template obv., so I figure we can go from there.

Current wording:
CARDNAME
WW
Sorcery

Each player chooses one permanent they control of each type and chooses one card in hand.  (The permanent types are artifact, creature, enchantment, and land.)  Players play a MAGIC subgame starting with these permanents in play and these cards in hand.  Each player who doesn't win the subgame loses 5 life.  If the game is a draw, both players gain 5 life.
Players in the subgame can't draw cards and don't lose the game if they can't draw a card.

[Anusien]

Although most situations are going to end in a draw (with neither player unable to deal damage to each other) the game doesn't know that.  This fundamentally won't work.

[Norm4eva]

Meh, if I weren't at work I'd do some Comp Rules digging, but there must be a contingency for stalemates.  They can't just be a result of time constraints on sanctioned play.

[parallax]

Meh, if I weren't at work I'd do some Comp Rules digging, but there must be a contingency for stalemates.  They can't just be a result of time constraints on sanctioned play.

You are so wrong. Most stalements come about due to optional actions (casting Gaea's Blessing or a Sceptered Final Fortune). As such, usually, at least one player is stalling, but if neither player has any optional actions (because they have no cards to work with and don't lose for not being able to get any more), then the game rules don't really say what to do. Both players just pass the turn to each other until they both agree the subgame is a draw (which one of the players may not wish to do because they're up a game or something).

[Anusien]

With the "not losing due to drawing a card with an empty library" both players can keep taking turns and passing without advancing the game state, which is tricky and possibly stalling.

[parallax]

With the "not losing due to drawing a card with an empty library" both players can keep taking turns and passing without advancing the game state, which is tricky and possibly stalling.

Only it's not stalling if they don't have any options that do advance the game state. I'd hate to see a ruling that you could be stalling for refusing to accept a draw from your opponent. It's bad precedent. Also, isn't it bad if a new card requires changes to the Floor Rules? I'm comfortable with modifying the Comprehensive Rules slightly if needed, but not having to redefine the Penalty Guidelines.

[dandan]

Just give them 20 turns max. The chance of a result after that is minimal. Any turns with no draw, no spells shouldn't take much time.

[Anusien]

It's easy to say "Give them <arbitrary number of> turns" but that doesn't work within the rules.

Although I misspoke slightly, it's a draw if there's a mandatory loop with no optional actions to break the loop.  So this card CAN create draws, but it doesn't necessarily.  I suppose this makes me more uncomfortable.  If both players end up with Giant Spiders and equal life total, it's possibly a draw.  This actually makes it worse, because every time a subgame gets created, a judge is going to get called.

Besides, subgames are strictly UN-fare.

[Norm4eva]

OK, so it's agreed that there's nothing in the rules that recognizes a draw solely under the circumstance of an unallowing board position.
What if the subgame created by Mini-Shah only allowed for so many turns?  We don't have to change the Floor Rules this way and determining a draw would be clear.

[GerryMander]

NO SUBGAMES PLEASE!

Has anyone ever had fun when you were forced into a magic subgame?

[asmoranomardicodais]

NO SUBGAMES PLEASE!

Has anyone ever had fun when you were forced into a magic subgame?

I have the most amazing enter the dungeon deck, incredibly fun for everyone involved. I've always thought that if you took out the under the table part of that card, it would create a very neat, non-unhinged, tutor.

[Norm4eva]

Ooh, okay, how about we fuck the subgame and just make the card initiate a new combat step?

Cage Match-razad
2RW (for example)
Sorcery

Each player chooses a permanent they control of each type and one card in hand.  Using only the chosen permanents and cards, after this phase there is an additional combat phase followed by an additional main phase.

That's kind of already a lot of text.  Is there room on there for some kind of reward for 'winning'?  How would you measure it?