[TMC Open] The Mana Clash Open (Midnight Edition) November 4, Stratford, CT

[iamfishman]

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From the lunatic who brings you The Mana Drain Open(Waterbury) and The Mana Leak Open(Stratford) comes the meeting of these two giants:

THE MANA CLASH OPEN 1(Midnight Edition)

When: Saturday/Sunday, November 4, 2006

Time: Satuday Night at 5:00 PM running non-stop until around 9:00 am Sunday morning.

AND THEN WHAT?: Well, then we all imvade Hometown Buffet for the largest Magic The Gathering Brunch in recorded history!

Where: Gamingetc Tournament Center and SuperStore
555 Lordship Boulevard (Exit 30 off I95)
Stratford CT 06615
1-800-380-1115 or 203-849-0186
Lodgings: If any are interested in Lodgings, please mention it in a reply to this thread. I may be able to establish a special room rate at the nearby Ramada Inn

Dopeness Factor: The limit as x approaches the value arrived at by solving the following riddle from the right of 1/x. Riddle: Two buildings are connected by a 40 foot wire of uniform weight per inch. The wire is attached the buildings at the same height above ground level. The wire hangs between the two buildings and is called a catenary. If the wire, at its lowest point is 20 feet below the position of attachment to the building, how far apart are the buildings.
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EVENT 1: TYPE 1 MANA CLASH TOURNAMENT
Registration: 5:00 PM - 6:00 PM Saturday Night
Tourney Starts PROMPTLY at 6:00 PM(To avoid a prolonged tournament, this will be strictly enforced. Latecomers will be subject to a round 1 loss.)

Cost: $20 Entry Fee

Format: Vintage

Proxies: 10 Porxies + $1 per proxy(15 proxies maximum)

Prizes/Tournament Structure: I have a unique idea for prize support/tournament structure that I hope to try out. Let me Tarrentino it for you and go backwards. I’ll give you all the reasons for why I think things should be run this way, then I will tell you how I think the event should be run, and finally, I would like you to go back to the reasons and see if they match appropriately.
1.) Because this is my first time doing this, I have no rough estimate for attendance.
2.) Top 8s/16s take FOREVER.
3.) Sometimes some may have a perfect record after swiss, and than get hosed two games of the top 8, and end up with a draft set.
4.) Tiebreakers shouldn’t matter.
5.) Final rounds of a tournament, where the top 8 going into the last round all realize they could draw one another in wastes an hour of everyone’s time.
6.) Players can know exactly what they have the potential to win.
7.) Teammates scooping to others gives an unfair advantage to some, making magic into a popularity contest.
8.) Long events suck.
9.) Insert other random reason I am forgetting here.

The tournament, regardless of how many players we have, will be run with 5 rounds of swiss. After the 5 rounds, prizes will be awarded based on standings after 5 rounds. This is what I have so far, tell me if it seems reasonable(keep in mind that the highest prizes are not on par with the highest prizes of Waterbury because more people will be receiving them(as opposed to one person in 175 winning a Lotus). Also, I welcome ideas for things I can use as choice for prizes.

Record Prize Choices:
5-0 Choice of: LOA/TIMETWISTER/$125/60 Packs
4-0-1 Choice of: 4 Force of Wills/$65/Booster box
4-1 Choice of: 2 Dual Lands/25 boosters/$40
3-0-2 Choice of: Any Dual Land/12 boosters/$25
3-1-1 Choice of: Any Dual Land/10 boosters/$20
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EVENT 2: LEGACY MANA CLASH TOURNAMENT
Registration: 11:00 PM - 12:00 AM Saturday Night
Tourney Starts PROMPTLY at 12:00 AM-Midnight Sunday Morning(To avoid a prolonged tournament, this will be strictly enforced. Latecomers will be subject to a round 1 loss.)

Cost: $20 Entry Fee

Format: Legacy

Proxies: No proxies Allowed

Prizes/Tournament Structure: * See above for numbered reasons for doing this.

The tournament, regardless of how many players we have, will be run with 5 rounds of swiss. After the 5 rounds, prizes will be awarded based on standings after 5 rounds. This is what I have so far, tell me if it seems reasonable(keep in mind that the highest prizes are not on par with the highest prizes of Waterbury because more people will be receiving them(as opposed to one person in 175 winning a Lotus). Also, I welcome ideas for things I can use as choice for prizes.

Record Prize Choices:
5-0 Choice of: 4 Sea Drake/LOA/TIMETWISTER/$125/60 Packs
4-0-1 Choice of: 4 Force of Wills/$65/Booster box
4-1 Choice of: 2 Dual Lands/2 Pithing Needle/25 boosters/$40
3-0-2 Choice of: 1 Reset/Any Dual Land/1 Pithing Needle/12 boosters/$25
3-1-1 Choice of: Any Dual Land/1 Pithing Needle/10 boosters/$20
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{{EDIT}}At the end of the night, the records of players for both events will be calculated to determine a combined match point total between the two events.  The top 8 players based on total match points will play in a bracketed top 8.  The prizes will include bragging rights as well as additional prize support, and the “Champion of the night trophy" for the winner.{{EDIT}}

Other events: More info to come

Magic Trivia
Magic Scattegories
Type 4 Tournament
Video Games(Free use all night)
Team Competition
And possibly more

[Anusien]

How insane.  Please move this to Virginia so I can go.

I like that prize structure, although it's going to make for an extremely short tournament (5 rounds as opposed to 5-6 plus top8?)

[iamfishman]

How insane.  Please move this to Virginia so I can go.

I like that prize structure, although it's going to make for an extremely short tournament (5 rounds as opposed to 5-6 plus top8?)

The shortness is intentional.  In this way I can still give away lots of prizes to lots of people(it is a wider prize structure and less top heavy) and hold a Legacy and Vintage event in the time it would take for one Waterbury Day 1.

[iamfishman]

With as many people as I think your going to get maybe you should make the legacy event 6 rounds.

I know your way saves time, and allows for alot less rounds which is nice, but I know alot of people who like alot of rounds, b/c playing magic is just awsome regardless of where you stand in a tournement record wise.

Actually, for those who like alot of rounds, they can actually play 10 rounds(5 of legacy and 5 of vintage) which is 3 more than were at The Mana Leak Open or 2 more than at a Day 1 Waterbury.

I might like having a top 8 better, because even though it can possibly hurt the player who goes undefeated in swiss... At the same time your idea hurts the guy who gets unlucky that 1 round he gets paired up vs goblins etc. and then wins out the rest of the way. But your scenario kinda favors who wins/loses when. IDK. Just saying that If I am going to be playing at an overnight magic event, and I am stuck there... I would want to play as much magic as possible.

Kyle

Actually, my method HELPS the person who loses round 1, since this person can win the same prize for going 4-1 as someone who wins 4 and loses the last round.

Because of the starting times it is concievable to complete in both tournements right?

If so, we should totally have a prize for "OVERALL CHAMPION"  Highest points at the end of the night combined over both tournements.  It doesn't even have to be a Money Prize, just like a trophy ... OR A BELT! 
EDIT: And the right to walk into the next Mana Clash, with the belt over your shoulder, with theme music. So much potential.

Ya know, no offence to the tournement structure, I actually really like it... but come on... it wouldn't be a tournement without someone being the "winner."

Good idea...I'm going to change what I said about the 1st and opposite event 2nd seed teaming and playing.

Here is a really good idea.  After both events, I will calculate the top 8 players based on both events.  Conceivably someone could have 30 match points at the end of the 2 events and be the first seed.  These 8 will play a top 8 for extra prizes, a trophy, and bragging rights.

ALSO...the Legacy tournament will be UNSANCTIONED...not because I feel it should be, but because I simply have not yet put in place the neccesary work to have it sanctioned.

[iamfishman]

Some important replies, updates, and changes:

Because of the starting times it is concievable to complete in both tournements right?

Yes, I will be running very tight rounds and adhereing to the start time of Vintage so that everyone can play in both events.

Ya know, no offence to the tournement structure, I actually really like it... but come on... it wouldn't be a tournement without someone being the "winner."

This is very true, hence my next point.

First place is going to be an endurance test.  Like the f-in' Ironman of magic.

14 rounds ... over 18 hours of magic ... and will need to go almost undefeated.  @_@

Top 8 will be vintage presumably? 

Actually, it will be 10 rounds prior to the top 8 to determine the Eternal Champion of the night.  And when you hear how you place in that top 8, you will see that you certainly don't need to go undefeated(though it won't hurt.)

This is probably going to be the greatest thing ever. Sadly this is probably going to force me to commit to building a legacy deck and buying resets x_x;;;

Here's to trying something new and being open to fun ideas.

Top 8 should obv. be a Beta booster draft.

I agree, unfortunately I don't have a Beta Set.

What I do have are a Revised Set, and Antiquities Set, and an Arabian Nights Set. 

The top 8 will be a Revised, Arabian Nights, Antiquities Rotessiere Draft.  All 500+ cards from these sets will be laid out on a table, and players will take turns choosing one card.  When all the cards have been selected players will make a 40 card limited deck adding any number of basic lands of their choosing.  This will be the format for the top 8.  Truly an Eternal Event. The top 8 will be using my sets for the draft, but they WONT get to keep the cards, the prizes will consist of other things.

How do I make it into this top 8 of the night?

Simple.  At the end of BOTH tournaments, the total number of match points in both events for each player will be calculated.  The top 8 players according to these totals will be placed into the top 8 for additional prizes and the prize of the title "Eternal Champ of the Night."

What are these extra prizes?

Good question.  I'm not sure yet.  The winner will at least get a trophy.  Since I have no idea of attendance I may have to base this added prize support on number of total entrants.

What about the Brunch, Magic Scattegories, Magic Trivia, etc?

I'm going to try this.  Have Magic Scattegories and Magic Trivia while the top 8 are drafting and playing.  This could happen right after a Brunch (which would be awesome if we can arrange to have tons of yummy food delivered there.)  I will be looking into this.

The only thing that concerns me is the start time for legacy. I know I'd drop dead playing that late, never mind starting that late! I understand you want both groups to be able to play, and it does sound like a great idea and a lot of fun, I just think you'll lose a lot of people to sleep deprivation and have a lot of play mistakes for us old fogeys.

Somethings that I really want people to understand are:
1.) This is not replacing TMD Open or TML Open.
2.) This is something FUN(lets not forget this reason for playing magic) that I thought of when I think of parties I have gone to with fellow magic players.  Granted, their will be no drinking, but all the comrodary and fun of a night of hanging out with buds and playing magic sounds like something I really was psyched about organizing.
3.) If you are not coming, that is okay with me.  I don't expect this to be the size of a Waterbury.  That said, there will be alot of people having alot of fun, and if you want to be part of this, don't miss out.  Start planning now.
4.) If people came down for the one day Legacy Event, what is wrong with a one night event.  Simply adjust your sleep schedule for that day.  Drive Friday night, Sleep Satruday Day, and you will be right as rain for playing.

I'm just going to reiterate my concerns about an all-night event that is 6 hours away from where I live.

I don't see any benefit to running this all night (instead of all day, or over two days), unless me and whoever I might take with me not being there is a benefit.

Again, this tournament, because of its overnight structure, is much more condusive to local(New England, New York, New Jersey) players.  I realize this.  This is NOT to say that I don't want others to come up for the event, just that I don't know what to tell you about being upset about the difficulty of attending if you have a 12 hour drive.

I don't care if the event is sanctioned or not. It's all about playing in a cool tournament.

QFT...however...

Also, sanctioning=good, why would you want it unsanctioned? That's the only thing I don't understand. Even if you don't use your eternal rating, then you shouldn't care about it. For me, it's a good way to remember past tourneys as well and check to see who the people I played against are...

As I have said, I simply have not really had the time to look into sanctioning.  Its not as though I am against it.  However again...

In regards to that. If ray cannot sanction the tournament. Dragon's lair in West Springfield will sponsor the sanctioning of the legacy event.

All I am waiting for is a response from Ray himself.

Bill

Bill, call me. 860-618-3412.  Let's talk about this possibility.

I'm not sure how I feel about the way you're running the prize support, Ray. let me think on it a bit and I'll get back to you.

You never got back to me with your opinions

Ray - I know GamingEtc. has a no outside drink policy. Is coffee going to be provided? God knows we'll need it.

Good question...I'll see if they will make an exception for this.  God knows, people will need it.

Is their a deal for playing in Both?

There is not.  This is simply because my prize support is based proportionally on the number of players.

This tourney sounds fun as hell. I don't see anything wrong with it. Jager bombs seem necessary for this type of event though!
AoD

Sorry, as was said, alcohol will be strictly prohibitted and anyone drinking on premises will be asked to leave.  I hate to be the party pooper, but there will be minors and so I would have no tolerance for such a situation.

[iamfishman]

I will probably go to this no matter what, but I have some concerns about the tourney, and they all relate to your proposed top 8 draft scenario.

First of all, I love the idea of a top 8 eternal draft.  It makes me want to go and provides incentive to really work hard on both formats.  With that said, people should be guaranteed to be able to play in both formats, because that seems like the only real way of making top 8.  My concern lies with the fact that rounds can go long, especially with the type one being first.  With the tourney schedule set up as is, it is very conceivable that people who play the final round of the vintage tourney miss the chance to play in legacy because of rounds going long.  Even with strict enforcement of 50-60 minute rounds, there's going to be overlap every single round of at least ten minutes, and that's being generous.

...(edited for space)

Anyway, the nightmare scenario is one that nobody wants.  It's bad for the players, it's bad for the store, and it's bad for you as the tourney organizer.  My suggestion is to either push the legacy tourney back by half an hour - an hour, start the vintage tourney 1-2 hours earlier, or just make a guarantee that anyone who plays all five rounds of the vintage WILL be able to play in the legacy tourney, regardless of extenuating circumstances that can and will occur.

If you can guarantee people will be able to play in both tourneys, there's no doubt you'll get a rise in attendance.  Especially with the added incentive of top 8 draft.  Again, the concept is great, but if players don't have the opportunity to play in both tourneys, there's no way in hell they have a shot at it.

Which brings me to one final concern, albeit minor: what kind of prizes are we talking for top 8?  I understand you're doing the draft mainly for fun/bragging rights for the players, and I respect that IMMENSELY, but it'd be cool if there were some significant prizes to go along with top 8.  With the top 8 draft, you're asking players (although its only 8) to play another tourney, which could go anywhere from two to six hours additionally for each person.  I'm guessing minimum two because of the setup for the draft, the actual draft, and then the first round of top 8.  Also, the players don't keep the cards, since they do belong to you.  That raises another concern: I hope you do decklists, because otherwise you're going to have the remote possibility of one or more players in top 8 ganking your cards.  The community is great and all, but there's always a couple shady ones, and you never know if one or two slip into top 8.

So, that's all my concerns in a nutshell.  :p  Again, I'm probably going regardless, because I <3 your tourneys, but I hope that some or all of what I brought up could be addressed by you, because I really want to see this event do well.

- Dave Feinstein

Dave,

Your concerns are very valid, and those things you said had already crossed my mind.  I realize I didn't make the first definitively clear though.

1.) Players who play in all 5 rounds of the Vintage event will be guaranteed AT LEAST 30 minutes(but much more if it is available) before it starts to prepare to play in the Legacy event.  This I promise.

2.) On top of all other prizes given(keep in mind that those who top 8ed probabbly earned mega prizes through the other events), I'll probabbly throw in AT LEAST a mana drain for first(more based on attendance), and some blue duals for 2-4, and packs for 5-8.  Please note that those people making top 8 already have likely won about 200 or so worth of prizes from their high performances in one or both events.  I never like to have the prize support be TOO top heavy, and so I am looking to really get a large game of Magic Trivia and Scattegories going with tons of prizes, to try to "spread the wealth around".

3.) As it looks right now, I will have a setup so everyone can watch the top 8 draft and eat breakfast/brunch.  Then, while the top 8 matches are being played, run the largest games of Magic Trivia/Scattegories so far to date.

4.) For the money cards in those sets that are being rotessired(sp?) there will be proxied.  Off the top of my head that means LOA, Bazaar, Workshop, and Blue Duals.  Past that I will be keeping the top 8 decks in the top 8 area(players may leave their deck with a judge to piss or whatever) and decks of those who lose will be collected by a judge.

[Harlequin]

4.) For the money cards in those sets that are being rotessired(sp?) there will be proxied.  Off the top of my head that means LOA, Bazaar, Workshop, and Blue Duals.  Past that I will be keeping the top 8 decks in the top 8 area(players may leave their deck with a judge to piss or whatever) and decks of those who lose will be collected by a judge.

Just a thought: Maybe get some people from around the TMD and M:tG community to make the proxies, and have them be part of the prize (maybe not for the blue Duals).  I'm 100% for the idea of non-money "bragging right" prizes.  Like a one of a kind, Play mat*  with "Spirit of the Night" or something on it, Pimp player's art Proxies, etc etc.  Like you said, if you do well in the other rounds then you've gotten your 'bank' from those 2 tournements.  I think the top 8 should be about the bling.

And if there are some ppl in the top 8 who are like "f- that, I'm not playing for a friuty play matt and a trophy over getting some sleep" then let top 9 take his/her place.

* - as a special note, Ray, please go back to the cloth play mats as prizes.  The vinyl / Psudo-leather ones from the last TMD Open are "sad face"  Jer generally play with it face down so the cards slide better on it.

[Anusien]

Needs more coin flipping.

[insertnamehere]

Dragon's Lair will be sponsoring the sanctioning for the Legacy Tournament.

[The Chosen One]

Thoughts? Predictions? Thrashtalking?


Bring it all  out!!!!!!!

[Mr. Nightmare]

I'm not one for trashtalking, well, yes I am.

The EPIC Syn is going to HANDLE this event.  Expect at least 3 of us in the top 8.

[Nastaboi]

I live on a wrong continent, but there will be our national Legacy Champs on Sunday. I will beat face and write a report afterwards.

[The Chosen One]

24 hours left!!!!! Are you ready? I am. Prepare for the " IRONMAN OF MAGIC"!!!!!!

Who would be psychotic enough to have a 3 format event sometime? Imagine a 18(or more) hour event spanning legacy, extended(or standard), and vintage! I am not really recommending such a thing(but hey Ray if you did it, you know people would show).

Looking forward to meeting people there! I will be wearing a Family Guy Tshirt sporting Stewie "you are under my control". Will I be playing slaver? Hmmmmm

[The Chosen One]

less than twelve hours!!!! Is everyone sleeping? What a bunch of wussies!!!!!!! :lol:

[emidln]

It would have to be Legacy, Vintage, and Mental Magic or Type 4. Can you imagine an marathon including Mental Magic as the last round?

[jazzykat]

I hope everyone in the NE is going. I went to a Mana Drain Open a long time ago and I really enjoyed playing there as everyone was nice. Good luck to you all.

[Machinus]

If anyone has any information about the Legacy part of this tournament, please share it!

[LSD/Cruise]

I'm not one for trashtalking, well, yes I am.

The EPIC Syn is going to HANDLE this event.  Expect at least 3 of us in the top 8.

You, Herbig, Bryant, and the rest of the EPIC Syndicate crew better brake that tournament. I'll be around the Midwest cheering you guys on.

[Bardo]

Discussion thread in the other forum merged with this one. - Bardo

[The Chosen One]

why does real life have to suck so much? I was on my way to the tournament and my fiancee called me with a plumbing emergency at home. Wtf    Seriously bummed, hope everyone has a good time without me...

[jazzykat]

why does real life have to suck so much? I was on my way to the tournament and my fiancee called me with a plumbing emergency at home. Wtf    Seriously bummed, hope everyone has a good time without me...

Don't feel so bad...I live in New Mexico

[Bardo]

Update from Mr. Nightmare. Posted at The Source:

There were 45 for the Legacy Event, 36 for the Vintage.

I ended the Legacy portion 4-1, after winning game one against Landstill (after him breaking his Standstill to Stifle a fetch, which I then remanded, since he had no other blue up), and he scooped. Herbig went 3-2 with Solidarity also, Wastedlife went 3-2 with TES, losing only to triple Meddling Mage and triple FOW in one match, and losing game 3 vs. Goblins due to siding one of his Burning Wish targets into his deck. Jim Lampman (regged as "Jim") went 2-3 with Train Wreck, but to be fair, he lost to me, and he scooped to Herbig.

I made top 8, as did Herbig, and we got to draft the stupid sets, which was mad fun. I drafted a shitty g/w deck, and since it was like 7am at the point of deck construction, screwed up my mana and lost in the t8. Mike drafted R/B with Colossus of Sardia and Meekstone (Savage combo), and lost to the eventual winner in the t4. Awesome time, again, and thanks sooo much to Ray and to all who went, and to The EPIC Syn for both driving the furthest to go, and for taking 1/4 of the top 8. God we're awesome.

So, what was the Top 8?

[Angel of Despair]

Well, I went, I scrubbed out...and I went home to sleep. I tried to find out what the top 8 was but I never really got a straight answer. I know Mr Nightmare and Herbig were in it..but it was a draft...and everyone was tired I'm sure...Either way it was the most fun I've had playing magic!

[Sporkcore]

Dave Feinstein, Chris Atkinson, and I think Nate Piese also made top 8. I can't remember the name of who else T8'd, but the person who gt first posts on the Drain under Rock Lee.