[Deck/Primer] Dread Return Ichorid - aka Cookie Monster

[meadbert]

First of all I had no idea that you could reuse Gemstone Caverns!!! I am going to have to look into that more carefuly.

Regarding Serum Powder here is my take.  I starting playing Meandeck Ichorid a lot and I quickly determined that whether or not I won was VERY dependant on having Bazaar on turn 1.  Putrid Imp and Brainstorm is not a terrible way to win but it was a bit slow and control decks will just counter the brainstorm and try to combo out.  Stax can destroy that plan with Chalice@1.  The other option is tutoring up Bazaar.  Yes you can tutor for Bazaar consistently but there are two problems.  First you are slowed down by a turn.  Second, there are a host of ways to stop the tutor.  Force of Will, Chalice@1 and Duress are 3 common ways to lose your tutor for Bazaar.  All in all I did not like it.  Every time I kept a handwith just Vamp I would have this bad feeling in the pit of my stomach.  I felt the same as when I open up with Crop Rotation in Turboland.  If I get Strip Mine then great but if it is Forced then I am screwed.  At first this drawback was not noticed because who counters Vamp Tutor or Imperial Seal.  After two fisted testing I quickly determined that countering the tutors is the best strategy and from there Ichorid lost it's main advantage which is it's resilience to counter magic.  I then settled on Serum Powder because it was an uncounterable way to get Bazaar on turn 1 the vast majority of the time.  There are still huge problems.  Pithing Needle on the draw is one of them.

[nataz]

on caverns:

.4 (chance to draw it in your opening hand) * .5 (chance that you won't be playing first) =.2 or 20% where you can actually cast it. You can't even count on the 20%, because some of those times you won't want to pitch something. If it worked like leyline, where you can either go first or second, that would be fine, but it doesn't, which means that 80%+ of your games it's a useless card in your deck.

[Evenpence]

on caverns:

.4 (chance to draw it in your opening hand) * .5 (chance that you won't be playing first) =.2 or 20% where you can actually cast it. You can't even count on the 20%, because some of those times you won't want to pitch something. If it worked like leyline, where you can either go first or second, that would be fine, but it doesn't, which means that 80%+ of your games it's a useless card in your deck.

Sideboard to bring in when on the draw?

[Glix]

Even maindeck, the .4 isn't really accurate because of the way this deck plays.  Any card not in your opening hand is going to the yard anyway, or being removed to powder.  In addition, you mull like crazy.  It's not a gaurenteed thing, but it could work nicely.  If anything, I was just happy to finally think of a way to use Caverns .

I see what is meant by ghoul being overkill, and perhaps it is, but I will say that if the deck used Champion instead of Ghoul, I would not have lost my matches at the Mana Clash.  I was playing Control Slaver, and had I been given one more turn game one, I would have won with tinker into memory jar, and decking my opponant.  Game 2 I might not have won, but I could have vamped up a Crypt and saved myself for a while.  That Ghoul really ended the game quickly, giving me no time to respond.

Why for gods sake did they neuter Caverns like they did?  So unneccessary...  Still, I think it's an interesting option, if not a feasible one.

I will say this, if Caverns is to be used, I would also use Rotation and V-tutor, which really open up options (albiet not on a common basis).  If nothing else, this allows for a turn 2 win.

[policehq]

Again I'll say, Sutured Ghoul will speed up the game if you play it without any protection of Cabal Therapying the turn before, but it is a risky move. If you were holding Echoing Truth or whatever bounce you might have been running, Your opponent would've been dead fast.

So turn 3 Sutured Ghouls can be faster wins, but when you're playing it safe, turn 4 Sutured Ghouls might as well be Laquatus's Champions because they win the game as soon as they come into play anyway.

-hq

[nataz]

Even maindeck, the .4 isn't really accurate because of the way this deck plays.  Any card not in your opening hand is going to the yard anyway, or being removed to powder.

No, .4 is accurate unless you are using powder to search for caverns. Otherwise, as you do mull, your % gets even worse. If you are mulling/using powder to get caveren, thats just silly. What 4 cards would you want to remove in ANY ichorid list to get a 20% chance of having this in play? At least with any onther spell/land/critter it has the chance to be at least marginally useful. If the gemstone gamble doesn't pay off, there is nothing you can do with it. It doesn't dredge, it doesn't feed ichord, it doesn't draw cards, attack, etc. There are just so many better options when looking at a 60 card deck.

As for sideboarding this in, meh, maybe. But again, I feel like there are better options for the SB even in just b/g.

[ryanjohnson]

hey, anyone here consider blessed wine as an option? ichorid desperately needs card draw and life gain.

Welcome to TMD. Please try not to make comments which add nothing to the discussion. In other words, if it isn't worth saying, please do not say it.

This joke wasn't funny the first time it got you banned. This time, though, we'll skip right to the punchline.

Everyone else: please don't reply to posts like these. Report them to the moderators instead.
-Jacob

[LouGodKingofDustBunnys]

hey, anyone here consider blessed wine as an option? ichorid desperately needs card draw and life gain.

Can you please explain this? Ichorid and Ichorid like decks don't need card draw or Lifegain...Hell most decks don't need lifegain, and even more then most Aggro decks don't need it. So, if you would be so kind, could you explain why you said what you said?

[policehq]

As I said before, Gemstone Caverns greatly increases the speed at which the deck operates if you are playing Putrid Imps, as it is Chrome Mox/Mox Jet 3-6.

Here is one sample that I just goldfished:
First opening hand -
Bayou
Bayou
Ichorid
Unmask
Chrome Mox
Serum Powder
Dread Return

I activate Serum Powder to get 7 new cards, and they are:
Bazaar of Baghdad
Putrid Imp
Gemstone Caverns
Golgari Grave-Troll
Chalice of the Void
Serum Powder
Ichorid

I remove Serum Powder from the game to play Gemstone Caverns with a luck counter. I play Putrid Imp, discard Golgari Grave-Troll to give him flying, play Bazaar of Baghdad and dredge out three more Ichorids (I know, luck, because they are the only three left) as well as other Dredgers. During my second upkeep, the 3 Ichorids come into play, and I don't have an Ashen Ghoul in my graveyard, but I activate Bazaar during upkeep since Ashen Ghoul doesn't have to recur at the beginning. I come upon one and get creatures on top of it (including Troll and Imp discarded from Bazaar). I attack for 14 and have enough creatures to Therapy the opponent twice and Dread Return Laquatus's Champion.

Putrid Imp + Gemstone Caverns in multiples will speed Ichorid up by a full turn. An unplayable Unmask (if you don't have other black cards you can afford to remove from the game), a Serum Powder, a non-Bazaar land, an extra Leyline of the Void, Black Lotus, Chrome Mox, many things can be removed from the game for Gemstone Caverns. If Putrid Imp doesn't abuse it, then your ability to recur Ashen Ghoul consistently turn 2 by activating Bazaar of Baghdad will, or playing Vampiric Tutor. I personally don't run Crop Rotation because I try to mulligan into a Bazaar, and after one activation Black (or games 2 and 3, green) mana is more important to me.

If Gemstone Caverns isn't in your opening hand, it's just as good to your game-plan as an Overgrown Tomb/Bayou fetchland would be: it will probably get dredged out and be insignificant. When it is in your opening hand, broken things happen.

-hq

[President Skroob]

I would stray from Gemstone Caverns simply because I think being on the play is really really good for Ichorid's proactive disruption suite. If you're planning to be on the draw every time, you're just not getting as much as you want to get out of Chalice of the Void and Unmask. There is a world of difference between a Chalice for 0 on the play and on the draw, and there is a similar difference between Unmasking their best business spell on the play as opposed to on the draw.

And if you ever expect to be choosing to play, Gemstone Caverns is a superiorly useless card in this deck. If you sideboard it and bring it in on the draw, then maybe, but I find that there are tons of cards that I want to pack in the sideboard that are much more useful than the narrow situational uses of Gemstone Caverns.

[policehq]

I don't think you realize how many dead cards are in your opening hand...

On the play, it is more difficult, but often manageable with another City of Brass, Chalice of the Void, Unmask, etc. in your opening hand, especially considering that Unmask/Chrome Mox are often unplayable in that situation.

With Steve's last article on Meandeck Ichorid, I feel that maindeck and sideboard cards are sorely misplaced. He puts 4 Brainstorm in the sideboard in place of Leyline of the Void, where game 1, you are almost immune to disruption and can feel free to dredge ~30 cards from your deck, but game 2, everyone has an answer.

Gemstone Caverns is amazingly useful, though tested very little compared to Dread Return, and I think more time is needed to show whether it is anonomously passable or overkill.

-hq

[meadbert]

Actually PoliceHQ may be on to something here.  I pretty much never board out Unmask on the play but I usually am willing to board it out on the play.  The same is true for Chalice of the Void although that only occationally comes out on the draw.  With so many cards that could come out on the draw a sideboard card that is very valuable on the draw is an interesting option.  Do not forget Gamble as a possible use.  Being able to gamble for Bazaar turn 1 and play it is pretty good. 

[cssamerican]

As for sideboarding this in, meh, maybe. But again, I feel like there are better options for the SB even in just b/g.

Playing Gemstone Caverns from the board is solid in theory despite what people including myself might first think. The only time you will not get to play a game on the draw post-board is if you lose the first two games of a match. Ichorid has a relatively difficult strategy for many decks to combat game one, especially if it is on the play. The likelihood of winning the first game with Ichorid is probably higher than the average deck, so the likelihood of your next game of the match being on the draw are higher than most. Thus it makes sense to have a boarding strategy that improves your game while on the draw when you have a minimal amount of information. Now, I know most people will say that there are other cards that will do more to impact your rate of success versus various decks than this land will, and they are absolutely correct. But I bet they can’t name a card that improve you rate of success versus every deck in the format when on the draw. Half the deck you wont even be sure what they are bring in against you for hate; will it be Leyline or Crypt? See it isn’t that it is great in one or two match-ups that you might not even see in the tournament, it is that it is good in every match-up you will see in the tournament. That has to account for something. Plus other than a good way to remove enchantments (Emerald’s Charm) and a good way to remove artifacts (Ancient Grudge) what else is so essential that its worth giving up a potential advantage in every game post-board on the draw? 

Edit: When it comes to a deck that breaks all the rules of the game we have to start thinking out of the box. This is the only deck I have seen where Black Lotus is somewhat sub-par in, and Gemstone Caverns is actually playable in. Working on this deck has made me began to evaluate cards in a completely different way.

[nataz]

Playing Gemstone Caverns from the board is solid in theory despite what people including myself might first think.

I disagree. In theory, its terrible...only useful 20% of the time. In practice, it also ended up being bad. I'm not just talking theory, I did a non-insignificant amount of testing. It was bad.

Ichorid has a relatively difficult strategy for many decks to combat game one, especially if it is on the play. The likelihood of winning the first game with Ichorid is probably higher than the average deck, so the likelihood of your next game of the match being on the draw are higher than most.

That’s an awfully huge assumption there, and in my testing not really true. Ichorid has good, bad, and even match ups pre-board with the meta-game. Sure, it's a control killer at heart, but aggo-control and combo would like to have a word with you. I'm going to ignore stax for the moment because It's not really around, although you could probably lump it broadly in the same category as control pre-board. Still, thats half to 2/3's of the meta game that you are hardly running over. 

Now, I know most people will say that there are other cards that will do more to impact your rate of success versus various decks than this land will, and they are absolutely correct. But I bet they can’t name a card that improve you rate of success versus every deck in the format when on the draw.

Chain of vapor and Emerald Charm. Do I get a cookie?

what else is so essential that its worth giving up a potential advantage in every game post-board on the draw? 

Ratio's are more essential. Think of it this way, what are you going to bring in post SB game 2. Heck, lets say you are on the draw. You are going to want to bring in some amount of grudge/chain to deal with crypt. Lets say 2-3 slots there. Then, you may want to bring in charm if they have access to leyline (everyone does). Lets say 2-3 slots there. That’s a possible 6 cards you are SB in. Now SB in 4 caverens for a total of 10 cards.

Now, find 10 cards to take out of the deck, and then tell me if you actually have a better chance now that you've so diluted your deck, or if it would have been better to just SB in answers? Keep in mind this will only work 20% of the time. Keep in mind you now can't run those petrified fields, or careful studies, or extra duress effects, or pithing needle, or whatever those 4 slots could have been. Answers that work all the time, not just rarely.

The thing about gemstone caverns is that it makes you greedy. Sure, every once in a while, you will get to live the dream. Turn 0 gemstone, opp turn 1 cropper -> bazaar or something. But do the odds, and think how unlikely that is. Heck, use gemstone + gamble for the black source + bazaar on turn 1. Now do the math on gemstone (.2) plus gamble in hand (.4) ...

If anyone wants to try it, I even worked with bad cards like mental note just to help out the problem of gemstone but nothing to do with it. You can't count it as a black source for ashen, because most of the time it's not.

heck, maybe I'm really wrong about it, I have been wrong about ichorid in the past. But everything that I've done with cavern seems like its just being cute, not good.

EDIT*
I was really excited for like 2 hours about petrified field. I thought it brought the land back into play, not into hand. Imagine 4x of those in the deck, so good, so good. Then someone pointed out durring a test game that it didn't work that way. I am such a noob. This is a perfect example of why I could be very wrong about the gemstone's !

*sigh*

[cssamerican]

That’s an awfully huge assumption there, and in my testing not really true. Ichorid has good, bad, and even match ups pre-board with the meta-game. Sure, it's a control killer at heart, but aggo-control and combo would like to have a word with you. I'm going to ignore stax for the moment because It's not really around, although you could probably lump it broadly in the same category as control pre-board. Still, thats half to 2/3's of the meta game that you are hardly running over.

Maybe you are right, but I always feel game one is mine to lose before I start playing. I guess I look at it like this, if Control and Stax combine to be more than 50% of the meta than I am looking pretty good. Plus I don't consider combo to be any worse than 50-50 since I am running 8 discard spells, Chalice, and Leylines in the main. That really only leave creature based decks as my bad to less than good match-ups.

Now, I know most people will say that there are other cards that will do more to impact your rate of success versus various decks than this land will, and they are absolutely correct. But I bet they can’t name a card that improve you rate of success versus every deck in the format when on the draw.

Chain of vapor and Emerald Charm. Do I get a cookie?

Not really because you forgot to finish reading that paragraph:)
Plus other than a good way to remove enchantments (Emerald’s Charm) and a good way to remove artifacts (Ancient Grudge) what else is so essential that its worth giving up a potential advantage in every game post-board on the draw?

Ratio's are more essential. Think of it this way, what are you going to bring in post SB game 2. Heck, lets say you are on the draw. You are going to want to bring in some amount of grudge/chain to deal with crypt. Lets say 2-3 slots there. Then, you may want to bring in charm if they have access to leyline (everyone does). Lets say 2-3 slots there. That’s a possible 6 cards you are SB in. Now SB in 4 caverens for a total of 10 cards.

Now, find 10 cards to take out of the deck, and then tell me if you actually have a better chance now that you've so diluted your deck, or if it would have been better to just SB in answers? Keep in mind this will only work 20% of the time. Keep in mind you now can't run those petrified fields, or careful studies, or extra duress effects, or pithing needle, or whatever those 4 slots could have been. Answers that work all the time, not just rarely.

I wasn't clear on how I was using it, that is my fault. When on the draw I am boarding out Gemstone Mines for Gemstone Caverns. So, I am not diluting my deck anymore than I otherwise would. I not going to debate the percentages of how many time I benefit from them when they are boarded in because that is hard to figure out when you likely will not keep a hand unless it has Bazaar, and your running four Serum Powder to increase mulligan efficiency. Twenty percent my be right on, perhaps someone could do the math on this and figure it out. What I do know is that if I don't draw one in my opening hand it is likely I will never draw one anyway; therefore, many of its drawbacks are a mute point. If I do have one in my opening hand and I have the ability to discard dredge cards or the ability to remove hate cards like Leyline of the Void before I play and activate my Bazaar, then I am going crazy a turn earlier than I otherwise could. This dramatically increases the likelihood of me winning in many cases.

[policehq]

Nataz, the main reason that you are wrong is that you feel instants are required in the deck to play Gemstone Caverns. I only play two: Vampiric Tutor and Ancestral Recall. Mental Note will always be rubbish in this deck. For Caverns to be a solid turn zero play, I could have Putrid Imp, 1 of 2 instants, Cabal Therapy in hand, work up to a Chalice @ 1, Ashen Ghoul going to the graveyard (and most likely recurred turn 2), etc. If it is not a solid turn 0 drop, it is not a solid land drop it all, and it will be discarded to Bazaar like SO many other cards in the deck.

Wasting sideboard slots on it is something I won't do. Gemstone Mines have been long gone.

-hq

[cssamerican]

Wasting sideboard slots on it is something I won't do. Gemstone Mines have been long gone.

-hq

Do you realize that you can NEVER get color mana out of it when your on the play? If so how has this affected your play when going first? It just seems like having only four color producing lands would severly limit your odds of getting colored mana in your opening grip when going first. Has this not been a problem for you?

[meadbert]

Gemstone Caverns is terrible on the play which is why it has been mentioned as a sideboard card.  On the draw it is great and I would imagine it would almost always be boarded in.  Normally a card you board in half the time is good.  To me it also really helps support Duress.  You pretty much always want to drop Bazaar on turn 1.  This means you must wait till turn 2 to cast Duress.  On the draw this is after your opponent's second turn.  Duress has lost a lot of its power by then.

Gemstone Caverns seems useful for allowing a turn 1Duress along with Bazaar.  Then you can start bringing back Ashen Ghouls on turn 2.  It really does improve the deck.  The question is what can you take out of your sideboard to make space?  Maybe it is not worth cutting anything.

Has anyone here tested Petrified Field?  I continue to find it to be a huge bomb, but unfortunately it does not work well with Colored Versions of Ichorid.

[nataz]

Has anyone here tested Petrified Field?  I continue to find it to be a huge bomb, but unfortunately it does not work well with Colored Versions of Ichorid.

I ran about 50 test games with it after I realized that it didn't return lands to play (so good, so good). Basically it lets you play a land from your GY on your Mainphase turn 3. This assumes t1 -> bazaar, turn 2->field, t3 -> pop field, play land. The question becomes, do you want to play a land on turn 3.

In most verions of ichorid you don't have a hand, so you are looking at lands that do something, flashback cards, or animating a ashen on turn 4.

Lands that do something: bazaar, strip mine
flashback: ray of rev, grudge

While it doesn't really speed you up all that much, it does pretty much ensure a t4 win (either by getting yet another bazaar or getting that last creature for dread returns), adding inevitability to the deck. It's also nice to grab a bazaar after you've been hit with a turn 1 wasteland. The field for me has been really good with serum powder because it maintains your hand size while allowing you to mulligan, this is obviously really important because you are losing a card a turn via bazaar.

Overall I would have to say I kinda like it. I'm basically using a version of this deck, with the major relevant changes being a mana base of 4 field + 2 bayou, adding a strip, and some grudges, while only having 2 ashen.   

the math,

turn 1 start 7
bazaar -1 (6)
activate +2 (8) -3 (5 new cards)

turn 2 start 5
activate +2 (5 + 2 dredge) -3 (4 + 0 dredge)
draw +1 (4 + 1 dredge)

Meaning one of those 4 cards has to be a field, and you have used less then 3 cards up to that point on disruption (unmask, chalice, leyline). It can be hard to keep a workable field if you are using unmask, but it is doable, especially if the last dredge card in your hand t2 is an imp.

An obvious downside is that e-charm is less good with this kind of mana setup. Fields is only a mana source if a bayou is in the gy, .: leyline is rough times. Something to consider...maybe SB out fields and SB in caverns against a known leyline deck?

[Gabethebabe]

Two things about this deck.
I think Strip Mine is a 100% addition to this deck. Why would you omit this excellent free disruption card? It is one of those cards that you love to see in your opening hand or in your fist bazaar activation.

Devouring Strossus > Hypnox?
The CIP abilility of Hypnox is of course irrelevant, but it´s an 8/8 flyer without drawbacks.
How relevant is the extra P/T and the trample/regenerate ability of the Strossus, as opposed to its significant drawback of its upkeep ability (I mean, play Strossus, your opponents activates a well timed crypt and you will be without Strossus food.)

[policehq]

My reasoning for not including Strip Mine is that if my deck is performing optimally, I wouldn't be able to play Strip Mine until the third turn, and by then, it either will have been discarded to Bazaar of Baghdad or ignorable by the opponent.

Devouring Strossus would ideally come into play with a Dragon Breath, and Ashen Ghouls and Nether Shadows would possibly be able to stay and keep him around for a second turn. However, I'm sure that his trample ability is very significant.

-hq

[President Skroob]

Two things about this deck.
I think Strip Mine is a 100% addition to this deck. Why would you omit this excellent free disruption card? It is one of those cards that you love to see in your opening hand or in your fist bazaar activation.

Devouring Strossus > Hypnox?
The CIP abilility of Hypnox is of course irrelevant, but it´s an 8/8 flyer without drawbacks.
How relevant is the extra P/T and the trample/regenerate ability of the Strossus, as opposed to its significant drawback of its upkeep ability (I mean, play Strossus, your opponents activates a well timed crypt and you will be without Strossus food.)

I believe the big reason that people cite when talking about Strossus is the fact that Dragon can't pay his upkeep to smash your face in with your own creature.

[meadbert]

It really sucks to bashed in by Dragon animating your own creatures.  This is one reason that Symbiotic Wurm is no longer in my list.  Right now their best target is a 6/1 Gigapede that dies to NetherShadow easily enough.

If you run Petrified Field then Strip Mine is amazing since you basically have 5 ways to get a turn 3 Strip Mine out.  I find this matters a lot since I usually wait till turn 4 to win.  Getting Strip Mine is like a Time Walk almost.

In the non Petrified Field versions Strip Mine steals a land drop from a Bayou and now you cannot hardcast a therapy or Duress or bring out Ashen Ghoul.  It slows your opponent down but you also lose a lot of tempo.

[Harlequin]

I think people are looseing sight of true speed and fast disruption for a deeper grasp on long-game problems.

Putrid Imp / blue cards are not what you want to add to the deck.

Look at the original list,  Cards that require mana are:

4 Ashen Goul
2 Duress
2 Darkblast (which was chosen for it's dredge 3 coupled with marginal utility .. honestly this may as well be golgari thug)

More mana dependant cards means you need more mana ... savvy? So unless your cutting these 8 cards for Imp, then you should need to add mana.  At which point you are diluting either the free disruption OR the dredge capabilites of the deck and/or detracting from the consistancy of the deck.

So now go ahead and make the arguement that Ashel Ghoul is weaker than Putrid Imp.  I disagree because in order for Imp to be good, you need 2 things: 1) imp in your opening* hand, and 2) mana in your opening* hand.  If you meet both conditions then imp there is an arguement to be made that imp is > Ghoul.  For Ghoul to be good, you only need to meet the mana condition.  If you have the mana, then a dredged ghoul is as good as (if not better than) a Ghoul in the opening grip.  For all other intensive purposes they are the same (unmask, ichorid, etc).

*by opening hand, we all know I mean opening hand + any cards drawn that are not dredged (which should be around 3-4tops).

I think in the near future, you see Jer and I running mana in the side board.  For matches where the mana dependant cards change.  Adding in an Mox Emerald and the 3rd Overgrown is probably the plan (in place of LftL). 

Adding Gemstone Cavern seem like a terrible Idea.  It adds an additional degree of conditionality to your opening hand.  In that you need to seen the Cavern in your actual opening hand.  If your on the play with an active bazaar you've got your opening hand +3 cards in which to find colored mana.  Cavern does not afford you those extra 3 cards.



Casting a wider net of answer only draws the deck thin.  The deck is already packed with a high degree of FREE disruption, and it has a solid FREE win condition backed by additional FREE disruption that you can play out of your graveyard.  I would say that at least 50% if not more of the games the deck plays out with no mana in play.  The mana is a nessisary contingency plan to help the deck cope with some very common threats as well as add resilance in the form of Ashen Ghoul.

[policehq]

Your opening hand + cards drawn off Bazaar + xsmall number of cards you actually have to draw when you are unable to Dredge must have one black mana source to activate Ashen Ghoul, or you're running just Ichorids and Nether Shadows (and the better lists I've seen in this thread aren't running the latter).

Thus, an early black mana source is important. SINCE it IS important, Putrid Imps belong in the deck because they can start dredging on the first turn under some circumstances. Also, there is this situation:

Opening hand:
City of Brass
Putrid Imp
Golgari Grave-Troll
Unmask
Bazaar of Baghdad
Ichorid
Dread Return

Option one:
Turn 1 - City of Brass, Putrid Imp, (?)Unmask removing Dread Return(?). Discard Troll to Imp for flying, dredge him turn 2 draw phase, play Bazaar and activate it.

or

Turn 1 Bazaar of Baghdad, draw two, discard Golgari Grave-Troll + 2. Turn 2 draw phase dredge Golgari Grave-Troll, play City of Brass, Imp, discard Troll, activate Bazaar.

These two have the same speed Dredging-wise, but now you have 2 damage from a flyer every turn (adds up to 6 most games) starting on turn 2 instead of turn 3. Or you have a Shock + Cabal Therapy food after sneaking a look from Unmask instead of just food for Cabal Therapy (or, with your deck, nothing else to play at all). You have a recurring source of discard to keep Troll dredging for Pithing Needle and Wasteland.

You're running 4 Ashen Ghouls. I trust you plan on using them even though I have enough time getting a black mana source out of my opening hand with 4 Bayou 4 Tomb 1 Jet 1 Chrome. If you didn't run an 8 card combo, you could have room for a mana-base, but I don't think I've gotten anywhere with that argument.

If your plan is to activate Ashen Ghouls, Putrid Imp should not be a problem for your mana-base. -end-

-hq

[meadbert]

By playing Putrid Imp instead of Bazaar you are not getting to look at the top two cards of your library.  If one is a Bazaar, Chalice or Unmask that could be crucial.  That is much more important than attacking for an extra 2 on turn 2.

[dicemanx]

Suppose that hand didn't have the Bazaar in it, and had some non-castable card. Would you mulligan?

Suppose the card was a Leyline (if you're playing it main) or a CotV. Would you mulligan?

I'd think that Putrid Imp would offset the need to mulligan so aggressively for Bazaar.

I'm also surprised that WGD would dictate the choice of large animateable creature (Hypnox versus Strossus). Is WGD really seen that frequently? Would it really concern you that they might animate the Hypnox rather than getting a WGD in the grave and just winning immediately? It seems that the stars would have to be in alignment for WGD to be animating your big man (look at what has to happen: you have to face WGD in the first place, then have WGD either not find a WGD in time or you get a Leyline turn 1, AND to top it off you have to mill enough to get the Hypnox into the grave but not enough for you to flash back Dread Return OR dredge into enough creatures that could otherwise overwhelm the animated Hypnox. Hypnox is only a 3 turn clock for WGD).

[The Atog Lord]

One option I'll propose for a Big Black Monster is Nicol Bolas. He's black. Dragon can't very well hurt you by animating him. And best of all, if you are unable to find a Ghoul, a Dragon-Breathed Elder Dragon Legend would be likely to end the game in a single hit anyways.

[nataz]

Problem with shrinking the big black guy is that the smaller he gets, the less reason you should have him in there. Really, from a dmg standpoint, krosan is the best, but he isn't black. Being black in the deck does so much because it pitches to unmask, imprints on chrome, counts for ashen and shadow, and gets eaten by ichorid. All of those add up to why krosan got cut for me.

The problem with going smaller though is the entire point is to make it more likely to get those last points of dmg in via sutured, with as little investment as possible. This allows you to "go off" with dread returns with a much smaller gy then normal, but at the expense of using a slot for the big guy.

Finally, only after being black, and being big (...tuxedo anyone?...) does animate utility come in. I mean how often are you bringing back something that’s not sutured? Sure other critters have better abilities, and may be better animate targets then strosis, but that’s only third on the list of importance.   

assuming 3 power for most of the critical removable creatures

Krosan = 4 creatures
Strosis = 3 creatures
Bolas   = 2 creatures

There are a bunch of cards that I would like to see in the maindeck (grudge/darkblast/etc) and at a certain point in time you have to ask yourself if they would just be better.

[Vegeta2711]

Honestly I don't think I've ever had a problem getting to whatever the lethal point was for Ghoul out of like 40-50 games as long at the 'big guy' was 6 power or more. The big power guy is only ever going to come up if you only got to dredge like twice. It's like why the old Ichorid decks cut LFTL eventually, yeah it was amazing if you only got like 2 dredges because you could still power lethal tog, but if you were dumping half your library into the grave it didn't really matter unless statistics decided to ream you.

EDIT: Actual games, not goldfishes.