Fastbond deck

[Jasper]

I decided to a deck to the idea I had seen quite some time ago in the local store. I don't know whether such a deck has been posted on before, but I didn't find anything. I came up with this (I know, it's far from perfect):

// Lands
    4 Bayou
    4 Tropical Island
    2 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
    4 Undiscovered Paradise
    1 Glacial Chasm
    4 Glimmervoid
    3 Forbidden Orchard

// Spells
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    4 Dark Ritual
    1 Imperial Seal
    3 Zuran Orb
    4 Horn of Greed
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Lotus Petal
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Timetwister
    1 Time Walk
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Fastbond
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Regrowth
    4 Crucible of Worlds
    3 Brainstorm
    3 Squandered Resources

Now, I figured that the deck needed a way to play around counterspells. I had some ideas of playing duress and cabal therapy, but I don't know how to get them in the deck in the best way. Does anyone have any suggestions on anti-counter measures?

[OfficeShredder]

The topics "Turboland/Oath" and "Let's do the time warp again" down the page both cover decks using a fastbond combo.

I really like the Oboro, palace in the clouds tech, both as a standalone with horn of greed and with fastbond in play.  I suppose the big question is whether you think the tendrils kill is the best, or whether it would be worth it to run a land that can kill once you go infinite (cephalid coliseum, barbarian ring, etc.... actually, those might be the only two.  I don't remember).

My biggest concern with the deck (as was with the turboland/oath deck) is that you have no disruption power.... most combo decks run 6-8 counters, and maybe duressess, while control decks can run 8-16, and maybe duresses (although 16+duress is pretty high).  The easiest way to fight this is to just run counters yourself, unfortunately, force of will wouldn't really work because you have very little in the way of blue cards unfortunately, and you don't want to keep UU open for mana drain, so you're kind of stuck on casting counterspells. Room is tight, but maybe you can cut mystic tutor (which really has very little to tutor for anyway), regrowth, squandered resources and glimmervoid for 4x duress at least. 

[Jasper]

cutting mystic tutor might indeed be a good idea (it was in there to tutor for a tutor)

squandered resources -- I tried different numbers, but it really helps out when you need mana to play horn of greed, crucible of worlds or something like that and it goes infinite with fastbond + crucible (and preferably the horn)

regrowth is there to recover from disruption.. so is it right to cut it? (as it almost always serves a great function no matter the circumstances)

So you would suggest running fewer lands?

[meadbert]

This should link to the top Turboland finishes at recent SCG tournaments.  I am Albert Kyle and Ben Moy is my main play test partner so I could go into detail about the top two decks and why each card was chosen.

The Turbo Oath thread has some ideas.

A list from the SCG database.

Two more ideas I have not mentioned are about TPS oriented Turboland decks.  These are basically lists that I ripped from Travis LaPlante and then played around with.

First I will answer your questions.  To dodge counterspells you can use Academy Ruins.  Basically you will have the stronger draw engine so you can keep putting your best artifact on top of your library and eventauly your opponent runs out of counters.  In theory this is great.  In practice I have not liked Academy Ruins so much.

A Combo list:
3 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bayou
4 Tropical Island
1 Cephalid Colliseum (Great!!!)
1 Oboro, Palace City in the coulds (good, but it's legendary so no need for 2)
1 Tolarian Academy (broken)
1 Academy Ruins (prett bad so far.  Mostly used to recur Jar)
1 Library of Alexandria (Pretty weak)
1 Strip Mine
1 Mishra's Workshop (This could be higher but I don't run 4 Crucibles)
1 Glacial Chasm

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Horn of Greed
1 Memory Jar (Totally busted)

1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal (not so good)
1 Mindtwist (Great!!!)
1 Sickening Dreams (better than Tendrils)
1 Vampiric Tutor

1 Excavation
1 TradeRoutes
1 TimeSpiral (amazing at time, dead other times)
1 Time Twister
1 Tinker
1 Braingeyser (good)
1 Time Walk
1 Gush  (bad, very bad)
1 Fact of Fiction
1 Echoing Truth
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mystical Tutor

4 Exploration
1 Fastbond
1 Regrowth

This list represents what I have been testing for a few months and not what I would recommend.

The idea of the above deck is to basically draw your whole deck and then cast Sicken Dreams for 20 with Glacial Chasm in play.  Usually I lead with Mindtwist to empty my opponent's hand.  If that does not work then you can always play Twister and start all over.
If Sicken Dreams is RFGed then you can generate obscene amounts of blue mana By constantly playing and saccing Tolarian Academy.  Then you can Braingeyser your opponent for 50 to deck him.  Be sure to Mindtwist him first so your Geyser is not misdirected.  Also keep in mind that Mindtwist can be misdirected.
Your third win condition is to bounce your Horns with an Echoing Truth and then use Fastbond and Crucible to recur Cephalid Colliseum and infinte amount of times targeting your opponent.  Eventually you will deck him.

In an ode to RobertDiGregorio from SCG (Where did this guy go?) I must mention Plagiarize.  It is a blue instant that costs u3 and it says till the end of the turn replace all of your opponent's draws with a draw for you.  It is amazing in response to Brainstorm, Thirst for Knowledge, AK for 4 and of course Ancestral Recall.
At worst you play it during your opponent's upkeep and get a 2 for 1 trade.  This is hardly amazing but that is it's worst use and it is not bad.

It is totally busted with Draw 7s.  I mean going Plagiarize, Time Twister is pretty much good games since you now have 14 cards and your opponent has 0.

It is great with Horn of Greed out.  Just play it during your opponent's upkeep and then you steal their draw and their land drop too unless they want you to get another draw.

Anyway I used to bring in Plagiarize and Seed Time (green instant speed time walk) from the board to deal with control decks.  They actually work well together because you pass your turn with 4 mana up.  If you opponent play an eot Intuition or Gifts or Mystical then you play Seed Time and take another turn.  If he plays EOT Thirst or Brainstorm then you wreck his hand by stealing his draws with Plagiarize.

Anyway I discovered one game that Cephalid Colliseum and Plagiarize are totally sick together.  You just target your opponent with Colliseum after plagiarizing him and now you draw three cards and your opponent discards 3.  That is some serious card advantage.  I think Plagiarize belongs main deck as do more Cephalid Colliseums.

At a minimum
I would go:
-1 Gush
-1 Fact or Fiction
+2 Plagiarize

-1 Academy Ruins
+1 Cephalid Colliseum

Gush is terrible and does not belong in a deck with only 4 Islands.  I can easily hardcast it but why spend 5 mana and only draw 2 spells when Plagiarize nets two cards for 4 mana.
Fact or Fiction is pretty good since it can get 3 below average cards.  This is barely better than Plagiarizes worst case and again, Playing Plagiarize in front of a Jar activation is so broken.  Plagiarize is a random hoser versus other combo decks.
I could see dropping Imperial Seal to go to a 3rd Plagiarize.  Also Library of Alexandria is pretty terrible since this is a combo deck.  I mean there are some combos involving Fastbond Trade Routes and Library but basically it is pretty bad.  I could see going:

-1 Imperial Seal
+1 Plagiarize

-1 Library of Alexandria
+1 Cephalid Colliseum


SIckening Dreams is better than Tendrils in the mid game because you can always wreck SS's board by doing a Sickening Dreams for 2.  Tendrils is pretty dead till you are ready to win.

Oh, if Fastbond is RFGed you can still win by using Echoing Truth to bounce all of your explorations.  Then replay them.  Then play 4 more lands.  Repeat.

I have considered adding Mind's Desire and Mishra's Factory or Elvish Spirit Guide for the infinite Time Walk engine but I have found the three main deck win conditions to be enough for the main deck.  I usually have at least one Sickening Dreams in the board as anti fish tech and also get get my win condition count over 3 to survive Jester's Cap.

To fight combo I board in 4 Sphere of Resistance and 4 Duress.  It is usually not enough but you have to try something.

[Jasper]

Nice list, gives me a lot to tinker with

[Jacob Orlove]

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[netherspirit]

I'm currently running Echoing Truth, Hurkyl's Recall and Rebuild for bousing opposing Null Rods and Chalices, my Horn of Greeds, and my own artifacts if I want to combo off and kill with Tendrils. Might be worth thinking about.

[Rittler]

A Combo list:
3 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bayou
4 Tropical Island
2 Cephalid Colliseum (Great!!!)
1 Oboro, Palace City in the coulds (good, but it's legendary so no need for 2)
1 Tolarian Academy (broken)
1 Academy Ruins (prett bad so far.  Mostly used to recur Jar)
1 Strip Mine
1 Mishra's Workshop (This could be higher but I don't run 4 Crucibles)
1 Glacial Chasm

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Horn of Greed
1 Memory Jar (Totally busted)

1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mindtwist (Great!!!)
1 Sickening Dreams (better than Tendrils)
1 Vampiric Tutor

1 Excavation
1 TradeRoutes
1 TimeSpiral (amazing at time, dead other times)
1 Time Twister
1 Tinker
1 Braingeyser (good)
1 Time Walk
1 Fact of Fiction
1 Echoing Truth
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Plagiarize

4 Exploration
1 Fastbond
1 Regrowth

I'm asking myself what u would replace the Time Twister with, if u didn't own one...cause this decks seems really interesting to me, but I couldn't get a Time Twister for a tourney next week. Also I ask myself if this might be better than the deck in the "Let's do the Time Warp again"-Thread in a field of Fish, Staxx, Gifts and Long.

Pls let me know what u think...

Thanks...

[OfficeShredder]

The deck in "Let's do the time warp again" has trouble consistently goldfishing fast enough to put pressure on combo decks from my testing, so it definitely still needs some serious tweaking

[meadbert]

Timetwister is actually pretty important because it allows you to keep drawing through your deck infinitely if need be. If it is a matter of proxies I would actually drop a mox before Twister.  Replacing an off color mox with a land helps color screw and makes Horns more powerful.  Workshop can also be dropped.

If you are in a 0 proxy environment and you just don't have the Twister then I would actually consider throwing Sundering Titan in there.  Basically your win conditions can be a bit fragile without Twister and Titan is a decent backup win condition.  You can Tinker him out and this deck is as capable of hardcasting him as any deck in the format.

Other ideas to toy with are running rainbow lands (City of Brass, Gemstone Mine, Undiscovered Paradise) and then you can play Bombs like Wheel of Fortune, Enlightened Tutor and Argivian Find.  Enlightened Tutor find Black Lotus, Fastbond, Horn of Greed, Memory Jar and Crucible of Worlds.  Argivian Find gets any of those back.

Undiscovered Paradise's drawback is actually an advantage sometimes because with Horn's out when you replay it you might draw cards.  Usually Shops, Crucible and Bazaars become better with the rainbow base.

The Rainbow base also allows Ray of Revelation and Ancient Grudge out of the board.  Both are great sideboard cards.
Barbarian Ring also becomes worthwhile since it is a nice win condition and deals with Meddling Mage, Goblin Welder and other annoying creatures.

[Rittler]

Hey Guys,
I now tinkered around with the deck a bit and recently came up with a deck that looks....quite different...

So here is my new list:

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Brainstorm
2 Gifts Ungiven
1 Cunning Wish
1 Tinker
1 Echoing Truth
-11-

1 Fastbond
4 Exploration
1 Recollect
1 Living Wish
1 Crop Rotation
1 Regrowth
-9-

1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Argivian Find
-2-

1 Sickening Dreams
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
-3-

4 Horn of Greed
4 Defense Grid
3 Crucible of Worlds
-11-

1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
-7-

1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Bazaar of Bagdad
1 Cephalid Colliseum
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Island
1 Tolarian Academy
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
-18-


This is the best Combo-style Turboland.dec I built all day.
I played it on MWS and if you manage to get a Defense Grid out on turn 1 (which is quite easy), you can easily combo off without interruptions. Of course opposing Combo-Decks are a problem, but if you manage to hold them off long enough or are fast enough I guess you can win even that one (guess this is where the Sideboard is important)
I don't know if Defense Grid is better than...lets say FoW or Drains...but actually they do quite good - what I really like about them is: you get em out and you kind of don't have to care anymore. I mean it makes it easier to cast bombs, such as Fastbond, off your hand, cause you got that Defense Grid out there. And with Wastelands and Strip Mine as backup...that solves lots of problems quite easily.

For the sideboard I'd come up with something like this:

1 Darkblast
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Argivian Find
1 Barbarian Ring
3 Trygon Predator
1 Sickening Dreams
1 Stroke of Genius
3 Sphere of Resistance
1 Sundering Titan


I also should have mentioned that I won't be able to borrow a Lotus and a Twister, so I didn't include those in my list. Perhapes I manage to get a Mishra's Workshop then that one might be included.

I think I don't have to explain much of the cards right here, cause most should be obvious by now...
but...

I included that single Recollect, since sometimes you get to make Gifts piles and then it makes it much easier for you to get what you want.
I included Crop Rotation, since it helped me all day long getting the land I specifically needed...
I came up with Defense Grid, since it's a card which people don't expect...and fits my game plan quite good...

So let me hear what you guys think about it...

Rittler

P.S.: I know that there are 61 cards in my deck...just don't want to take any of them out...

[meadbert]

Your list looks pretty good but it will roll over and die to Grim and Pitch Long.  Combo in general will probably be a problem.  If Combo is not prevelent in your meta then you are fine.  If it is prevelent then you will probably need at a minimum 4 Sphere of Resistance and 4 Duress in your board.  By the way I like that you found room for Brainstorms.  They are great, however generally with Brainstorm you are better off with a Fetch mana base so you can get rid of unwanted cards.

[Rittler]

Concerning the metagame...

This deck was/is made for a 32 players final tournament....

...and I guess the field will be something like:

~10x Fish
~4x Long/Pitch
~7x Staxx
~3x Gifts
~3x Oath
~3x Mask


That's just what I expect there to be...

Concerning the manabase - do you really think it would be better to go with Fetchlands and Duals when playing four colored?

lmk...

[OfficeShredder]

Concerning the manabase - do you really think it would be better to go with Fetchlands and Duals when playing four colored?

Well, fetchlands are the main reason brainstorm is powerful

[Rittler]

Hmm....

There are only 9 lands that could be changed into a Fetch-Dual manabase:

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
1 Island

I could do something like:

2 Polluted Delta
1 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
2 Flooded Strand

But that seems much more fragil to me than the rainbow base...I wouldn't even have a standartland anymore...

[OfficeShredder]

Hmm....

There are only 9 lands that could be changed into a Fetch-Dual manabase:

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
1 Island

I could do something like:

2 Polluted Delta
1 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
2 Flooded Strand

But that seems much more fragil to me than the rainbow base...I wouldn't even have a standartland anymore...

 Between vampiric, demonic, enlightened tutors, and crop rotation, along with tinker and 2x gifts, you probably have enough shuffle effects that brainstorm will be fine.

[Jasper]

I know I am reviving an ages old topic, but I wanted to show what the deck has evolved to (in those few times I actually took the deck and played/modified it. I'll explain my choices this time . As I only play Vintage in MWS and I somehow ended up with a very bad version of the deck (did I really add the white wish??) I had to rebuild a large part of it and it's consistency is still subpar.

Decklist:

// Lands
    1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
    4 Undiscovered Paradise
    4 Glimmervoid
    1 Cephalid Coliseum
    1 Crystal Vein
    1 Strip Mine
    2 Wasteland
    3 City of Brass
    1 Glacial Chasm
    1 Tolarian Academy
    1 Mishra's Workshop

// Spells
    1 Mox Sapphire
    2 Zuran Orb
    4 Horn of Greed
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Lotus Petal
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Timetwister
    1 Time Walk
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Fastbond
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Regrowth
    4 Exploration
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    4 Pact of Negation
    1 Imperial Seal
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    2 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Crop Rotation
    1 Hurkyl's Recall
    3 Nix
    4 Dark Ritual

Breakdown and explaination:

    1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds

It's a bomb in the deck, but I finally agreed it's legendary supertype excluded a second copy

    4 Undiscovered Paradise
    4 Glimmervoid
    3 City of Brass

I chose for a rainbow mana base
Paradise is actually quite good in the deck, as its drawback often works in your advantage

    1 Cephalid Coliseum
    1 Crystal Vein
    1 Strip Mine
    2 Wasteland
    1 Glacial Chasm
    1 Tolarian Academy
    1 Mishra's Workshop

Some utility lands. Cephalid coleseum is your alternate kill, strip mine/wasteland can go for a soft lock with crucible. After my last change (see moxen) Tolarian Academy has actually had a dramatic decrease in value and I may end up cutting it. I have no more than one workshop
 

    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Lotus Petal

My last change was actually to cut the two moxen that aren't in the deck's main colors for two nixen. I tended to be a bit flooded and I would rather cut the moxen than lands. This may still turen out to be a mistake.

    2 Zuran Orb
    4 Horn of Greed
    1 Fastbond
    4 Exploration
    2 Crucible of Worlds

Core of the deck. Creates different ways of going infinite, going near-infinite and (very) soft locks.

    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Imperial Seal
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Crop Rotation

Tutors.
Imperial seal: Sorcery drawback is severe, but I think it is still worth playing. Often you will be casting your tutor mid-combo anyway, following it up with drawing a card (not being able to respond to a horn trigger is a pity though)
Enlightened tutor: Rather good, it searches effectively half of your deck, as all your combo cards are enchantments, artifacts or lands
Crop Rotation: Man, why did nobody tell me this card was missing from my original list? Fetches you the other half of your deck. This was also the card that convinced that when adding it an Oboro less would not hurt the deck.

    1 Timetwister
    1 Time Walk
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Regrowth

Nothing special there.

    4 Dark Ritual

Some acceleration. Allows turn one (sometimes even before land drop) horn of greed. Now that I am looking at this they might be one of the least vital cards in the deck - I may end up cutting one or two.

    1 Tendrils of Agony

Still like tendrils for the kill. You can often play it before you go completely infinite to gain life (for fastbond - only when you are really low on life) or even for the kill if you can already get the storm count high enough.

    4 Pact of Negation
    3 Nix

My protection suite. Incidentally all of them are from Future Sight. Nix counters all de facto standard counters in the format except mana drain, which is much easier to play around than the format defining free spells. When the opponent is in a soft lock they may also be used to counter moxen/lotus.
So far they have been rather good for me, but I do still consider trying out Red Elemental Blasts instead. For a similar mana cost it does the important thing Nix does - they counter free counters, but they also counter mana drains - which is compensated by the fact that they do not counter moxen.

    1 Hurkyl's Recall

Some general utility that comes in handy in a few matches. It lives by the fact that if you go off you will practically draw all your cards - you usually do not want to draw it. It both returns your horns (eg to safely go recur Cephalid Coliseum) and serves as a random out in some cases. At times it can save your artifacts from an opposing destruction spell, but as it's a singleton that chance is not all that big.
I have been considering moving this card to the sideboard and add in a Research(/Development) as to (1) be able to get specific hate into your deck, to (2) get an out to something standing between you and your victory condition and to (3) function as an anti-extirpate card. However, 1 and 3 are not too well done without at least two copies and 2 is mostly served by the Recall already (platinum angel).



What are your thoughts on the choices I made/yet have to make? Do you have any suggestions for the deck?