ErkBek
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A strong play.
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« on: February 19, 2007, 10:09:23 pm » |
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The talk of banning Yawg Will is going around again.
I’m probably going to host a few more tournaments in the next 3 months. One of which in I will be giving away a Black Lotus and at least $500 of other various cards. The prizes will be guaranteed regardless of attendance. I would probably be hosting this event in mid-April in the Chicago Area. (prob $25 entry and 15 proxies)
If I were to host this event, who would go? Please post if you would likely go. (I don’t see a poll being effective here)
How many people do you think would realistically attend this event?
If you were to make 2 other changes to the Restricted list in conjunction with the Yawg Will banning, what would they be? (I don’t want to change the format too drastically)
Thanks for everyone’s time.
-Eric Becker
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Team GWS
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Moxlotus
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Where the fuck are my pants?
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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2007, 10:25:55 pm » |
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Obv, I'd go. I don't think I'd restrict anything else. Doing anything else (like Drain/Shop/Bazaar) would be completely changing the format.
I'm not sure a Lotus tournament for this would be the best idea. I'd save the Lotus for an actual Vintage event. Plus, this could possibly scare some people off (who knows) and you don't want to eat a hundred dollar loss on the Lotus. I'd put up a Ruby or something for a WILL BANNED Type 1 event. And you'd have to make sure you'd advertise the hell out of the fact that Will is banned.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2007, 10:32:04 pm » |
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I would def. like to go, but the drive would not be pleasant.
I was trying to think about what I would play in such an environment and the field would be so wide open I couldn't even imagine it!
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Moxlotus
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2007, 10:44:10 pm » |
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I would def. like to go, but the drive would not be pleasant.
I was trying to think about what I would play in such an environment and the field would be so wide open I couldn't even imagine it!
Let's see what would not be affected at all: Oath Ichorid Belcher (sure it runs it, but its not essential at all) Dragon IT'S RAINING MEN!!!  Slaver can become U/r (and has multiple SCG top8 showings) Stax and Fish both survive--or do they? They are built to take out Will decks. Without Long and Gifts, they may need to be completely redesigned. Gifts and Long are gone. It's possible that some storm deck could still be great, but it would probably be an incarnation of The Rebuild Deck and focus its Tendrils kill on Moxen+bouncy+kill. I guess Goblins gets better, since there isn't nearly as much need for turn 1 disruption. |
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Almighty
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2007, 10:51:35 pm » |
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If it were on a Sunday, I'd be there.
I'd expect that there would be an influx of decks that smash face. Kird Ape might even show his face. Juggernauts sound pretty good too.
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magus888
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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2007, 11:51:26 pm » |
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Bomberman FTW! Everyone seems to forget this deck exists.
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Kobolds-clamp is tier 1, right?
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The Atog Lord
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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2007, 11:53:16 pm » |
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(I don’t want to change the format too drastically) To ban Yawgmoth's Will is to change the format drastically. The format would not be the same without that card. That being said, if the tournament does not conflict with school, I would try to go. I'm under two hours from Chicago, and although school often tethers me to West Lafayette, I'd make something like this if at all possible. |
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The Academy: If I'm not dead, I have a Dragonlord Dromoka coming in 4 turns
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Anusien
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2007, 12:08:48 am » |
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Keeper with 2 Gaea's Blessings instead? (I kid, I kid).
It really feels like CS would be powerful in that sort of environment. Most Stax decks gain a boost, and I feel like there would be a move towards mini-Empty the Warrens decks. CS's Welders give it an advantage versus Stax, and it's in a better position to do something silly like get Mindslaver online and wreck the control decks.
In other words, without Will the format spins back to incremental advantage, and CS gains incremental advantage better than most decks in the format.
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ErkBek
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A strong play.
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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2007, 12:50:01 am » |
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It really feels like CS would be powerful in that sort of environment. Most Stax decks gain a boost, and I feel like there would be a move towards mini-Empty the Warrens decks. CS's Welders give it an advantage versus Stax, and it's in a better position to do something silly like get Mindslaver online and wreck the control decks.
In other words, without Will the format spins back to incremental advantage, and CS gains incremental advantage better than most decks in the format.
That's why most people say that you should ban Will and Tinker together. |
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Team GWS
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The Atog Lord
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« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2007, 01:17:30 am » |
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That's why most people say that you should ban Will and Tinker together. Assuming, that is, that most people support either of them being banned. Myself, I don't -- but then, that wouldn't stop me from attending a Vintage or Vintage-esque tournament nearby. |
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The Academy: If I'm not dead, I have a Dragonlord Dromoka coming in 4 turns
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2007, 02:46:32 am » |
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Banning Tinker has never been necessary, and will never be necessary. Will stands alone in that respect.
Don't forget that Control Slaver can actually lose to decks like Goblins, RGbeats, and Fish, and they can get randomly blown out in a lot of matchups (looking specifically at Oath here). I would not expect CS to do well, simply because the meta would be too random for it. However, that does not preclude a CS deck from winning, if someone shows up with the correct-in-retrospect MD and SB.
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Team Meandeck: O Lord,
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dicemanx
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« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2007, 08:18:02 am » |
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If I found the time to play, I'd certainly try this event. While I don't feel that YWill needs to be banned to diversify the format (although a few key restrictions would have the desired effect), it would still be interesting to see what decks would rise to the forefront. At first I thought that CS and WGD would be at the top, but after some thought I'm not so sure.
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Without cultural sanction, most or all our religious beliefs and rituals would fall into the domain of mental disturbance. ~John F. Schumaker
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Harlequin
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« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2007, 08:35:21 am » |
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I think it would certainly be interesting. I think it would have alot of "trickle down" effect in the meta.
Obviously the decks that would be most hurt would be:
Rit combo
Gifts/Drain combo
and I think CS.
CS is the "jack of all trades" Most of CS's busted wins are achieved on the back of Yawg. Yawg is essentially the only real tool that CS has to beat a deck like fish or aggro.
So now that top of the piramid is chopped off ... where does that leave us? Fish and Stax. Fish and stax are both hate decks, so I think they may find that they have no one left to hate on. These types of decks often do well against combo but can have problems with "muscle" style hate-aggro or prison-aggro decks.
I think that muscle control decks would do very well. Here would be my top picks for muscle decks:
Shop Agro (with shop control elements)
something like Legacy Threshold / Vintage Gro
Agro-combo like Legacy Goblins or FCGoblins
Oath or Oath-Combo
Now given that, a combo deck like Salvagers, 2LBelcher, Dragon, Reanimator, worker/staff, squirlcraft? could come from behind and be the new "Fast" deck... and sweep undefeated in a forgiving aggro-meta.
It seems like it would be a format of "All those decks that are too crappy for vintage, but banned in legacy"
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dicemanx
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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2007, 01:37:48 pm » |
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On a side note, perhaps it would also be interesting to have such events to test the unrestriction of certain cards that many deem to be fairly safe. For instance, aside from the obvious cards like Voltaic Key, we debated about borderline cards like Mind Twist, Fact or Fiction, Dream Halls, Black Vice, or even Gush, but it still remains unclear whether these cards are worthy of their restriction. Some additional prizes could perhaps be offered to highest placing decks that feature, for example, 4 copies of the unrestricted card to offer some incentive for them to be played. FoF or Gush wouldn't need incentive, but cards like Mind Twist or Voltaic Key might.
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Without cultural sanction, most or all our religious beliefs and rituals would fall into the domain of mental disturbance. ~John F. Schumaker
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BC
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« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2007, 03:54:47 pm » |
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If you're putting up a piece of power, I'm going to make the trip whether Will is banned or not. If you were to make 2 other changes to the Restricted list in conjunction with the Yawg Will banning, what would they be? (I don’t want to change the format too drastically)
I suppose if Will is banned, Burning Wish could be unrestricted. But like you said, this may unexpectedly change the format too drastically. |
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JuJu
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« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2007, 06:33:18 pm » |
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Uhm. Unrestrict Entomb, or LED maybe (Though, that would make Bomberman insane)
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�We Seek The Ring...�
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Methuselahn
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« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2007, 08:52:13 am » |
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I may go. I'd have to know the specific date first. I'd try to bring 1-2 others with me. I can only see myself coming out for a lotus event.
2 changes. Well, I'd make Time Vault awesome again. It's obvious now that Wizards just needed to use "time counter" and Time Vault was crippled because of it. The other change, hmm. Maybe larger sideboards?
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Smmenen
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« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2007, 10:48:54 am » |
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Why make it more complicated than need be.
Banning Will is more than enough to make this tournament interesting.
I would advise against any other changes.
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Klep
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« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2007, 11:23:20 am » |
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Why make it more complicated than need be.
Banning Will is more than enough to make this tournament interesting.
I would advise against any other changes.
Agreed. I wouldn't be able to attend, but this event would be exceedingly interesting. |
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So I suppose I should take The Fringe back out of my sig now...
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Cross
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« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2007, 12:09:28 pm » |
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I don't really get the point of this excercise, why not just play a legacy tournament?
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the GG skwad
"109) Cast Leeches.
110) You win the game."
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Smmenen
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« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2007, 12:42:09 pm » |
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I think that just goes to show how much Yawg Will defines Vintage and underscores how interesting a tournament without Will would be.
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forests failed you
De Stijl
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« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2007, 12:57:00 pm » |
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It might just be a more interesting exercise to test out with your friends. Personally, I wouldn't spend time preparing for a tournament format that does not exist, nor would I attend a 'no Yawgmoth's Will' event. Either way, I'd be interested to know what ended up winning if you did run the event.
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Grand Prix Boston 2012 Champion
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Cross
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« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2007, 02:35:55 pm » |
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I think that just goes to show how much Yawg Will defines Vintage and underscores how interesting a tournament without Will would be.
I actually think if any card Lotus would be the one to ban. When comparing the tournament to Legacy I meant it more bcause of the mechanic of banning cards for being too powerful. |
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the GG skwad
"109) Cast Leeches.
110) You win the game."
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ErkBek
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A strong play.
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« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2007, 12:53:53 pm » |
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I don't think I'm going to go through with this. It seems like I'd be better off holding a normal tournament with that type of prize support.
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Team GWS
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Disburden
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« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2007, 05:14:26 pm » |
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Damn you.
That would've been so cool.
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Unrestrict: Library of Alexandria and Burning Wish.
Location: Carmel, NY (Putnam County)
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unknown.root
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« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2007, 06:17:24 pm » |
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Not only am I interested in this I would be willing to donate to the prize support.
Just imagine if one day if the players split with what the DCI says and branch off with a list that truely reflects the game.
Or what if wizards notices that the players want a change this bad they "REALLY" look into changing the format.
before I get flamed I'm just saying what if, i really don't give a rats anus what changes as long as workshops are legal.
Kevin
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- TEAM GWS -
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Hi-Val
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« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2007, 11:01:18 pm » |
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You know what this event will be called, don't you?
THE UNWILLING.
gewd gawd I am clever.
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Team Meandeck: VOTE RON PAUL KILL YOUR PARENTS MAKE GOLD ILLEGAL Doug was really attractive to me. |
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zeus-online
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« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2007, 04:50:58 am » |
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What do people think would be played? I'm thinking: Drains: U/W Bomberman U/B 'Tog...maybe with green for Berzerk U/R Slaver - possibly with blood moon? U/B TutorTinker Sensei, sensei combo-control ...Keeper?  U/R ETW ? Mono U Masknaught? Shops: Stax - With more anti creature measures Workshop Aggro Maybe something with metalworker? Combo: Charbelcher Dragon Willless long ? TPS? Aggro - Aggro/Control U/W Fish Goblins - Either Food chain or U/R Counter goblins Bombs over baghdad? (Bazaar madness) U/R Fish? Suicide black? Masknaught? TNT ? /Zeus |
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« Last Edit: March 06, 2007, 11:12:35 am by zeus-online »
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