FCG after Planar Chaos, no powers

[Holmes]

I browsed the old topics and didn't find any recent entries of Food Chain Goblins, so here comes something to discuss about, my recent build:

Mana thingies:
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
2 Wasteland
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Chrome Mox
1 Sol Ring
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Goblins:
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Matron
3 Goblin Recruiter
3 Skirk Prospector
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter

The rest:
4 Food Chain             

Sideboard:
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Artifact Mutation
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Null Rod


Food Chain Goblins got 2 playable cards from Planar Chaos, Simian Spirit Guide and Stingscourger. The first replaces ESG's as accelerators and the second gives some hope against early Tinker + Colossus tricks or similar situations. Akroma is still a problem, though. I'm currently running 1 Stingscourger in maindeck and I'm having thoughts of adding one to sideboard as well.

I'd like to hear opinions and experiences about sideboarding against nowadays tier1-decks. Combo is still so difficult to beat. Basically I just have to try to delay my opponent's combo till I can rush for the win. Usually it just doesn''t work. I still believe in FCG. If metagame is control-heavy, this deck just rocks. It still can race any deck that can't combo out during the turns 1 or 2. Unfortunately, many present combo kills do it too reliably.

[+t]

Have you tried Rootmaze and Sphere of Resistance in the board?
 
Those are great board answers against Combo.  Rootmaze is paticularly devestating because it isn't an artifact, and thus can't be bounced by Hurkyl's.

[Harlequin]

From your list I would suggest the follwing changes:

-2 Wasteland
+2 Ancent Tomb

Firstly, your wastelands are not really that effective when your planing to win on turn 3-ish.  I think Tomb (esp in FC) will help speed you up about a 1/2 to 1/4 of a turn on the average.

-1 SeigeGang
+1 Kikijiki Mirror Breaker

I really like the Jiki (again esp in FC) becaue he lets you copy any of your "Comes into Play" triggers, and gives you some really big meat for FC. 

-1 Recruiter
+1 Matron

Recruiter can get you into trouble.  For example you Recruite and set up for a win, then they waste your tiga and play null rod... thats GG because you can't hope to play anything.  Matron can act as your 4th Recruiter, as well as your extra of any other card in your deck.  Also Foodchain for Matron->Matron->Matron->Matron nets RRRR.  Its not a great play, but it can be useful sometimes.

-1 Sometihng
+1 Goblin Welder

Unfortunatly Stingscourger is compeating with this slot.  Depending on your meta this Stingscourger might be the right call to cut for a welder.  Simply put, welder is an answer to tinker ... as well as can give you edge against stax.  Obviously his Goblin status makes him best friends with warchief, Matron, Ringleader, and Recruiter.  Another option is to cut a gempalm... but I don't like that, 3 is boarderline; lastly you could cut down to 2 Recruiters, or 2 Prospectors.

-1 Something
+1 Sharpshooter

Sharpshooter is going to be amazing if you face up against any Empty the warrens deck.  He also lets you get a possibly turn 2 win off turn 1 lackey turn 2 Foodchain.  Becuase he can make Prospector + SGC + Sharpshooter = Lethal damage nice and quickly.  This is tough to pull off, but that doesn't make Sharpshooter any less of an amazing answer to Empty the Warrens.

The other way you could take the deck is:
4 Prospectors
4 Recruiters
2-4 Goblin Charbelchers

I always thought that was a very good alternate win for FCG that liked runnin 4 recruiters.

[madmanmike25]

Glad to see some Gobbo action again.  I have been trying out SSG in EVERY deck that can play red just to see how it is and I made up a list, but it probably isn't as good as yours.  Here goes my proposed, untested list:

4 lackey
4 piledriver
4 warchief
4 prospector
4 recruiter
3 ring leader
1 sharpshooter
1 ringleader/kiki jiki
3 matron

4 food chain
4 chalice

3 ESG
3 SSG
1 mox emerald
1 mox ruby
1 black lotus
1 lotus petal
1 chrome mox
4 taiga
4 wasteland
1 stripmine
4 wooded foothills

That's just a waaaay rough list I made up after hearing about SSG, please don't tell me it sucks-I can already see that.

Do think about ESG though, Faster food chain and faster Goblin Warchief is a good thing.  A lot of your goblins can make use of that colorless mana as well. 

I don't know man, as fast as goblins can be, they still aren't as fast as most decks.  I would really reconsider taking out wasteland.

Just a small thought.


*edit.  Crap, my apologies.  I missed the 'no power' part, sorry.

[That0neguy]

I also like the Anceint tombs over wastelands.  The format is a lot faster now than when the top decks were 4cc, UR Fish, and control slaver.  Your disruption is not going to end up doing much you really do need the speed.

and I think that Stingscourger is a much better answer to Tinker > DSC than welder since it works even after they Yawg will, it works the same turn as you play it, and is much more realavent against fish.

Another card that would be interesting to include here would be empty the warrens.  It makes insane mana food chain/prospector and could probably lead to some very fast wins.

Mogg War Marshal also nets 3 mana with a food chain and 1 mana with a prospector, and should probably be considered.

However im still not sure that this build addresses the problems that killed FCG in the first place:  Its not fast enough to race control sometimes, let alone combo.  I think that it is this reason that goblins is not going to be a upper teir deck anytime in the future.

Also a freind of mine was goofing around and made counterjoblins, which was bassically mono red goblins splashing for time walk ancestral and 3 daze and ended up splitting a mox a couple months ago.  Maby that could help improve the combo match up?

[Holmes]

Thank you very much for the replies. I'm going to answer step by step.

First, playing Ancient Tomb over Wasteland. I've been thinking that, but Ancient Tomb gives me hard times when playing the lousiest match-up, any tendrils-combo. Each time I use tomb I take 2 damage, meaning my opponent needs to build up one storm count less. That can be a problem against any TPS-variants, especially with Mana Crypt hitting me for 3 each upkeep (usually) and the fetchlands also giving life loss. Also, there is no disruption in maindeck except for the 2 Wastelands and disruption (or luck) is the only way to delay opponent's combo for the perhaps critical one turn I need to get my combo working.
Nowadays even control decks can win during the first three turns, so FCG needs those wastelands. I have also tested and tested and tested, and found out that 1 Ancient Tomb plus 1 Mana Crypt is enough. This deck can't produce enough red mana compared to colorless mana it can produce. Wish I had those moxen..

Second, Rootmaze in sideboard. I haven't actually thought of that earlier. It is an interesting idea and I should get a playset for testing. That might be one decent sidecard in this combo-heavy meta.

During the weekend I also cut one Recruiter for a Matron. It's doable and doesn't break the consistency of the combo. An extra Matron also gives me steadier Stingscourging.

I'm not a fan of Welder in this build, because I always want a first-turn Lackey no matter what, and Stingscourger deals with the biggest threats from Tinker. People also have md-answers for Welders since it's played a lot.
Kiki-Jiki is considerable, but I can't think of anything to get out. Also, it is quite expensive (5cc) so it will hardly see any playtime as a one-off unless you get the combo working. And by that time you win anyway.

Empty the warrens is usually mentioned nowadays, but I see it being a non-goblin, non-mana, non-food chain card that only wins more if you are already winning. All the crucial cards need to be tutorable with Matron. ETW can't be tutored and it isn't crucial. So far no slots for that one.

[Holmes]

One thing I've been thinking is maindeck hate cards.
FCG has basically nothing before siding, now I have 2 wastelands plus the creature removal goblins. Chalices in md would be nice, but I'm afraid of screwing my own manabase or lackeys. Has anyone played Null Rod in maindeck? It would be huge, but it is very difficult to cut anything.

[AmbivalentDuck]

I strongly recommend the maindeck Rootmazes as you run so little artifact acceleration and it doesn't cost you a whole turn to play with the SSG and ESG's around.

[Holmes]

Any ideas what to cut if I maindeck the Mazes? It's quite a tight package, still. I'm still a bit suspicious about maindecking anything that doesn't head for a fast win. Root Maze could be crappy vs. control games, where deck's strategy is just to rush as fast as you can. First game against combo is no chance for FCG whatsoever.

[Norm4eva]

What about that 1/1 for 1R who puts a Goblin into play when he CIP/leaves?  You spend at most 1R, you get RRRRR back from him and his men.  Seems like perfect fodder for Food Chain.

[Holmes]

What about that 1/1 for 1R who puts a Goblin into play when he CIP/leaves?  You spend at most 1R, you get RRRRR back from him and his men.  Seems like perfect fodder for Food Chain.

It just isn't necessary. When you go off, you have all the mana you'll ever need from Ringleaders, Lackeys, Prospectors and SGC-tokens. Basically suggested goblin is just a vanilla goblin. All the goblins in the deck have a spesific purpose and that is just too random. All the listed goblins are straight better because they do something. It is used in extended goblins, though, but it's a totally different deck.

[acidfreak]

Anyone care to comment on my decklist?

// Mana 23
    1 Stomping Ground
    8 Mountain
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Taiga
    4 Wooded Foothills
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Lotus Petal
    3 Simian Spirit Guide

// Goblins 33
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Piledriver
    4 Goblin Recruiter
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    4 Goblin Warchief
    4 Skirk Prospector
    4 Mogg War Marshal

// Spells 4
    4 Food Chain

I like the prospector/war marshal very much in this deck since they are basically a mana engine that is synergetic with the rest of the deck as they are goblins. Also it gives the possibility to win through quick mini-combo's (for example recruiter-> stack ringleader, warchief, war marshal, piledriver, piledriver with a prospector in play etc) in case you don't draw food chain.
I also wanted to fit in Rite of Flame and Wasteland but I just can't find the space for it.

[Holmes]

I like the prospector/war marshal very much in this deck since they are basically a mana engine that is synergetic with the rest of the deck as they are goblins. Also it gives the possibility to win through quick mini-combo's (for example recruiter-> stack ringleader, warchief, war marshal, piledriver, piledriver with a prospector in play etc) in case you don't draw food chain.
I also wanted to fit in Rite of Flame and Wasteland but I just can't find the space for it.

You have cut off the Commanders, I see. It gives you the opportunity to shoot the opponent down instead of attacking (Moat or something.)
You also should add those Wastelands, it's your best card against combo in game 1. I have settled down to 2 copies. 3 might be playable in some meta, but 4 is too much and screws sometimes your mana. Especially when people can just fetch a basic land, which is a popular thing to do nowadays under the fear of Wasteland. Try adding 4th spirit guide, take the petal out. And how are you doing without Gempalm Incinerators? I've been thinking of cutting them off, but removal is maybe still too necessary because of Jotun Grunts, Confidants, Welders etc.

I'm not a fan of marshall, because it just creates vanilla goblins, and not enough of them. That might just be me, though, because I always try to go for the combo win and Marshal gives no contribution to that.

You also don't need S. Ground and should try to add Mana Crypt and Ancient Tomb or two. They are just insane in the deck. Try also replacing mountains and one foothills to get 3 x Bloodstained Mire in md. That way you wont get manascrewed if opponent names Foothills on Needle.

[acidfreak]

Here is my updated list:

// Mana 26
6 Mountain
4 Taiga
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

// Spells 4
4 Food Chain

// Goblins 30
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Lackey
3 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Recruiter
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Goblin Warchief
4 Skirk Prospector
3 Mogg War Marshal

Sideboard:
4 Null Rod
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyrostatic Pillar (not sure about this one, its for storm decks, maybe final fortune and try to race them is better, or chalice of the void?)
3 Naturalize

I've found that with Mogg War Marshal you don't need Siege Gang Commander anymore, as you can just generate 20+ goblins by stacking the marshals among the other goblins from a recruiter and ping em to death with Sharpshooter. I need to fit in at least two Gempalm Incinerators, but i'm not sure what to take out to free up two spots. I also have two ancient tombs but im worried that if i fit in more colorless land i might start getting mana issues.

Just a thought: Would it be worth to make a transformational sideboard with 4 duress and 4 Cabal therapy in addition to the land destruction package to improve the combo matchup?

[AmbivalentDuck]

Against combo, you want Leyline, Root Maze, Chalice, or Red/Pyro Blasts.  Duress and Cabal Therapy will be *way* too slow and take too much of your tempo.  The same goes for Strip Mine/Wasteland.

[Holmes]

I've been thinking of the sideboard also lately. You only need to think of combo matchups, so 4 Chalice, 4 Root Maze, 4 Null Rod is a good start in my deck. Then perhaps 3 Artifact Mutations for some random welder decks. I've been thinking also of putting Root Mazes to maindeck, but don't know, haven't been playing for a while.

[AmbivalentDuck]

You already beat Stax and Fish easily, don't waste SB slots on matchups you're sure to win.

You need to beat Gifts and various Tendrils builds.  Since you need to be the *aggressor* to win those matchups, use proactive disruption like Leyline, Root Maze, and Chalice.  And maybe 3x Tormod's Crypt.

Null Rod requires getting to turn 2, or wasting turn 1.

[Holmes]

You already beat Stax and Fish easily, don't waste SB slots on matchups you're sure to win.

You need to beat Gifts and various Tendrils builds.  Since you need to be the *aggressor* to win those matchups, use proactive disruption like Leyline, Root Maze, and Chalice.  And maybe 3x Tormod's Crypt.

Null Rod requires getting to turn 2, or wasting turn 1.

How about Pithing Needle? It stops Polluted Deltas and Senseis's Divining Tops. Does it have a chance? Tormod's Crypt I totally forgot, it's definitely great against combo.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Pithing Needle is *reactive* disruption because you're just wasting a card if you don't *know* it will hit that game.  Root Maze also shuts down fetches, but actually affects how they combo out and hoses certain Stax builds as a side benefit.

You want 4 maindeck Root Maze.

[Darkenslight]

Is there any potential in MBing two Goblin War Strike and singleton King for a kill out of nowhere?

Example: from acidfreak's list:

-2 Waste
-1 Recruiter
+2 War Strike
+1 Goblin King

[AmbivalentDuck]

War Strike is an extremely conditional card that's only better than Goblin Grenade if you have at least 6 Goblins in play...that is, if you're solidly winning.

As for Goblin King, the pump effect is weak and the mountain walk is *never* relevant because it's almost inconceivable that your opponent will actually block your creatures (and have a mountain in play).  Cutting a Recruiter (which can let you shout 'I win' after it resolves) to play something worse than Goblin Grenade is not worth it.  If you want additional/direct damage, just add Grenades.  I'm sure you'll find that they're relatively inefficient and seldom contribute to your goal of winning before Gifts can resolve EtW or Tendrils with a high storm count.

[Vegeta2711]

The best anti-combo cards you can board in -
Chalice of the Void
Duress
Null Rod
Root Maze
REB (Sort of. These actually aren't that good, but they simply are more likely to resolve than Null Rod)
Stifle

Personally I'd probably just board in like 4 Chalice, 3/4 Duress, 3/4 RM and hope for the best. Pillar is shitty and wins maybe two out of every ten games you try to play it. If I wasn't using Root Maze, splash a Volc or two and run Stifle.