Myriad Games Bonus Tournament sans Yawgmoth's Will?

[TopSecret]

     I think that liking or disliking the potential banning of Will in Vintage is irrelevant to this tourney's premise.
There has been heated debate about the place of Yawgmoth's Will in Vintage,
and this tourney would provide information about this topic.

     There is nothing harmful to be gained from information.
As an additional bonus, this tourney could present an interesting metagame shift for players,
or absolutely nothing could change in the usual decking showings.

     The results would be interesting, regardless of what happens.
   And, no doubt this tourney would be fun. 

    PS: For a tourney name, how about Myriad Games Vintage Light Tourney?

[Hi-Val]

This is an absolutely terrible idea.  To people that are angry at losing to random Yawgmoth's Wills, dont play type 1.

I don't want to sound like a douche here, but I didn't see any option in the voting for "this is a terrible idea" because I don't think Myriad cares if it's terrible or not. At least 21 people right now think it's a good enough premise to play with.

And isn't "if you don't like Will, play another format" exactly what's going on here? This is a completely different format, where's the issue?

[Shock Wave]

I have very little interest in doing this. I don't think that it will prove much, because people won't want to test an entirely new format for just one event. This means most likely you will just get a random hodgepodge of normal decks without Will.

I can only spend X amount of time on Magic now that I've graduated, and honestly I'd rather spend it playing Type I. It's not like it wouldn't be fun for non magic purposes (both during the event and after the event), but if I'm only allowed X fun/month, I'm going to budget accordingly.

If I do get to hit up a second event this month, it will be going with you all to Eld's event.

But hey, if it floats your boat and draws a crowd, why not.

P.S.
Tyler, you still owe me dinner from like 2 years ago. Thats right, I'm keeping track of the interest bitch.

Just play Ichorid and stop your whining!   

@ Dan: I will donate an entry fee to your tournament to help support your prize pool via Paypal if you hold this. 

I second that. I will donate to support prize pool.

[forests failed you]

The store where I work is holding tournament on St. Patrick's day for a Mox Emerald.  The premise of the tournament is every card has to either be Green or tap for green mana, and other than that uses the Vintage banned / restricted list.  Does that mean that we think every other card should be banned?  Obviously not.

Just because they are holding a tournament without Yawgmoth's Will doesn't mean anything.  If Myriad games can get enough people who want to battle without Yawgmoth's Will, good for them.  There is nothing wrong with holding creative tournaments that reward player's for being creative and thinking outside the box.  The only concern I would have with holding a Yawmoth's Willess tourney is that you might get less participants that if you had a standard tournament.  But the only way to see is if you actually try it out.

[Outlaw]

I think you're missing the point. People aren't mad about losing to topdecks, people are sick of yawg will centric decks. Gifts and Long are probably the format's most defining deck's, both which are built on the same card, Yawgmoth's Will. Will has set the standard for decks in vintage so high, that some people feel that its limiting the diversity of decks in the format. 

I would love a event without will. Im just so sick of losing to completely random wills.
This would also promote rogue decks, giving the format alot more variety then what is now (slaver, gifts, and long are dominating tournaments around the globe, coincedently they all run will Wink). Also my dad would get a kick out of playing his old sui list.

But you would probably get better attendance for a myriad legacy event. Either way it would be fun.

Thats what I was refering to

[desolutionist]

I have very little interest in doing this. I don't think that it will prove much, because people won't want to test an entirely new format for just one event. This means most likely you will just get a random hodgepodge of normal decks without Will.

I can only spend X amount of time on Magic now that I've graduated, and honestly I'd rather spend it playing Type I. It's not like it wouldn't be fun for non magic purposes (both during the event and after the event), but if I'm only allowed X fun/month, I'm going to budget accordingly.

If I do get to hit up a second event this month, it will be going with you all to Eld's event.

But hey, if it floats your boat and draws a crowd, why not.

P.S.
Tyler, you still owe me dinner from like 2 years ago. Thats right, I'm keeping track of the interest bitch.

Just play Ichorid and stop your whining!   

@ Dan: I will donate an entry fee to your tournament to help support your prize pool via Paypal if you hold this. 

I second that. I will donate to support prize pool.

If the prize pool is big enough, a lot of us from Pennsylvania will make the trip.

[Myriad Games]

Glad to hear that there's a lot of interest (about 2/3 of local players so far). To clarify, we're not planning on making this a regular event or trying to establish a new format. We think this would make an interesting special event to complement (not replace) our regular monthly Vintage tournament series.

To give you an idea of prize breakdown, we use a scaling structure that awards prizes to the entire top 8, with each place scaling up based on attendance.

1st place: Mox Emerald at 20 players, Mox Pearl at 24 players, Mox Ruby at 28 players, Mox Ruby + Myriad Money at 34 players, etc.
Prizes for 2nd – 8th places will also be based on attendance.
2nd place is generally about 1/3 - 1/4 of 1st place.
3rd and 4th place are generally about 1/3 - 1/4 of 2nd place.
5th - 8th places generally receive 3+ booster packs.

Each of these prizes is in Myriad Money (store credit) so that each winner has the flexibility to get what they'd like, whether it's any of our wide variety of singles (including higher end stuff like Drains, Bazaars, etc), packs, sleeves, dice, or any of our wide variety of board and card games. Basically you customize your prize. There is also a buyback available on the top 4 places for those who would like to simply receive a business check to cash.  Easy split options are available for the Top 4 or Top 2, depending on player preference.

We also have a variety of bonus side events and activities to make sure everyone has a great time! Here's a review of you can expect at this tournament to complement the fun of the main event. All of these bonus events and prizes are free.

Bonus Preregistration Dual Land
Best Deck Name Contest
Tumblin' Dice Side Tournament
Vintage Draft Tournament
Myriad Gear Challenge
New Player Bonus Booster Packs
Best Tournament Report Prizes

We've already had 3 people let us know that they'd be interested in donating to the prize pool, which we very much appreciate. As a small token of our appreciation for these folks, who cannot attend at present, they will be entered in our Preregistration Bonus Dual Land drawing. If someone wins who is not from the local area, we will mail the bonus Dual Land to them.

For those of you who are considering traveling from a distance, would you be more likely to attend this event if it were to take place back-to-back with one of our regular events (say March 24th for our classic Vintage and March 25th for Vintage Light (Type 1.1)? Or would you prefer to have this on a separate weekend, like April 1st? There are two hotels literally around the corner from Myriad Games, and we're very conveniently located just a quarter mile off Exit 2 from I-93. We may even add a prize for furthest traveled and/or offer a bonus to players that attend both days.

Thanks again to everyone for the feedback and comments. Keep the suggestions and votes coming. I will make a final determination and begin final scheduling after this weekend.

We will also be providing our usual detailed tournament report to allow everyone to see the results of this event.

[Sam Best]

I am against this. There are answers to every card in this format. You can stop yawgmoth's will with other cards. There are plenty of cards in the game to hate out yawgmoth's will. Tormod's Crypt and Planar Void are two of them. Yes decks like gifts does have cards to handle this, but that is the whole reason they were added to the deck. Plus its not 100 percent true anyways that yawgmoth's will wins games. Ancestral Recall is a very powerful card so why not ban that?

[zeus-online]

I am against this. There are answers to every card in this format. You can stop yawgmoth's will with other cards. There are plenty of cards in the game to hate out yawgmoth's will. Tormod's Crypt and Planar Void are two of them. Yes decks like gifts does have cards to handle this, but that is the whole reason they were added to the deck. Plus its not 100 percent true anyways that yawgmoth's will wins games. Ancestral Recall is a very powerful card so why not ban that?

Name just 1 card in magic which can't be answered? That's a really bad argument...hell lets unrestrict everything - We've got FoW...why worry?

/Zeus

[Jank Golem]

I am against this. There are answers to every card in this format. You can stop yawgmoth's will with other cards. There are plenty of cards in the game to hate out yawgmoth's will. Tormod's Crypt and Planar Void are two of them. Yes decks like gifts does have cards to handle this, but that is the whole reason they were added to the deck. Plus its not 100 percent true anyways that yawgmoth's will wins games. Ancestral Recall is a very powerful card so why not ban that?

Name just 1 card in magic which can't be answered? That's a really bad argument...hell lets unrestrict everything - We've got FoW...why worry?

/Zeus

I think the argument he is trying to make here, or at least the argument I would try to make is that if Yawgmoth's Will is such a good card that it needs to be banned; why aren't people running more answers to it? In theory the metagame should compensate for the brokeness of will by running more and more answers, which is not happening now. Just to be clear I would go to this tournament, but I don't support banning Will.

[carlossb]

I think the argument he is trying to make here, or at least the argument I would try to make is that if Yawgmoth's Will is such a good card that it needs to be banned; why aren't people running more answers to it?

Maybe because they are either playing faster decks abusing Will to combat other Will-centered decks, and because the other part of the Vintage community (the greatest part, by the way) has demonstrated time and time again that it´s very slow at adaptation.

[nataz]

Hey, you know what is really fun? Myriad Games. You know whats really stupid? Dragging the BnR list into this thread. I’m not really a fan of will being banned either, but if Dan can draw the numbers (and it looks like he can), more power to him.

Legacy would still be hawt though. Maybe as a side event at one of your Vintage events (like single elim, after round 4)

[Smmenen]

I think you're missing the point. People aren't mad about losing to topdecks, people are sick of yawg will centric decks. Gifts and Long are probably the format's most defining deck's, both which are built on the same card, Yawgmoth's Will. Will has set the standard for decks in vintage so high, that some people feel that its limiting the diversity of decks in the format. 

I would love a event without will. Im just so sick of losing to completely random wills.
This would also promote rogue decks, giving the format alot more variety then what is now (slaver, gifts, and long are dominating tournaments around the globe, coincedently they all run will Wink). Also my dad would get a kick out of playing his old sui list.

But you would probably get better attendance for a myriad legacy event. Either way it would be fun.

Thats what I was refering to

Be careful not to assume that people who want to play in a Will-Less tournamnet have the same motivation.    You can't impute a single intent to the collective decisionmaking of dozens of people.   Oftentimes we are, ourselves, conflicted and mupltily situated in terms of what drives us. 

[Demonic Attorney]

The purpose of this thread is to gauge interest in a proposed tournament event.  The purpose of this thread is not to invite theoretical debate about the need for changes to the Vintage B/R list.  In fact, there's already a thread devoted to that issue in Open.  Please direct any responses on the B/R issue to that thread.  Thank you.

[iamfishman]

I don't play Will, so I don't mind one bit.

As such I am in favor of trying something new.

Hoever, I will support a Myriad event(when I can make it) whether Will is banned or not.

Ray

[EnialisLiadon]

I think this is a great idea.  People who think that this is a stepping stone for banning will are all missing the point.  The tournament is something different, something fresh.  It's a fun experiment to see what would vintage be like without our most broken and insane card.

If I didn't live a very long ways off, I'd definately go.  I'd probably play U/R slaver or 5c dragon, depending on how many proxies are allowed.

[Godder]

This could just as easily end up proving that Will isn't as big a problem as some think it is, so I say run it and enjoy .

[Myriad Games]

This event will be held on March 25th back-to-back with our regular Vintage Tournament on March 24th.

This will avoid overlap with GP: Massachusetts and allow people who are traveling from a distance to stay overnight and attend both events.

We'll look forward to seeing everyone in about a week for a great weekend of Magic!

Links fixed.
-Godder

[Myriad Games]

Myriad Games takes this opportunity to publicly thank those who would like to donate to the prize pool of this event, despite not being able to attend due to distance and/or other considerations.

Thank you for the support!

If you would like to donate to the prize pool for this special tournament, simply send your donation to paypal@myriadgames.com.
All donations will go directly toward increasing the prizes for this tournament.

As a token of our appreciation for your support, we will enter your name into the Free Dual Land Drawing twice. If you win, we will notify you via email and mail the Dual Land to you right away.

As with our regular monthly Vintage events, the report from this special tournament should be posted within a week of the event, with a comprehensive summary of the metagame and full Top 8 decklists.

Thanks again!

[Myriad Games]

The tournament report for this event has been posted here.