[Casual, Multiplayer] Kavu Predator

[JeremM]

Some friends of mine decided to start playing MtG, so after teaching them the ropes, I quickly found myself really wishing to play.  Since the only deck I have anymore is Legacy stuff (and playing against PC precons with Faerie Stompy isn't terribly exciting), I hashed together a quick decklist for a multiplayer deck.

//Lands
10 Forest
10 Plains

//Creatures
4 Kavu Predator
4 Wall of Shards
4 Skyshroud Cutter

//Spells
4 Invigorate
4 Reverent Silence
4 Reward the Faithful
4 Congregate
4 Condemn*
3 Congregation at Dawn*
3 Harmonize

*This is only in here because I don't own a playset of Swords/Calls/Tutors anymore, and really don't want to double the cost of the deck.

The idea of the deck is to lay down an early Predator, play a lot of lifegain spells for the opponents, and beat down with a giant Kavu.  Ideally, I'd get off a turn two Wall, turn three Predator, turn four play some free spells + Congregate, and go from there.

The only cards I worry about in our playgroup are that card that takes something with counters on it from Dissension, and any targeted removal.  I thought about adding in Shielding Plax, but can't really find room for it, although if needed I'd cut the Harmonizes.

Any thoughts/comments?

[Ephraim]

I like the idea of a deck built around Kavu Predator, but I think that you are possibly focused just a little bit too much on helping your opponents to gain life.  Congregation at Dawn doesn't seem like a huge problem to me as a replacement for Worldly Tutor.  Wall of Shards and Reverent Silence, however, do not seem like optimal picks, even for a deck like this.  One of the cards I'd like to see in this deck is an enchantment, so I'd cut all four Reverent Silence.  Wall of Shards isn't doing anything except enabling Kavu Predator, so I think that you could do better.  I could also see you going down to just two or three copies of Congregate, so let's say that we have nine or ten slots to play with.

I'd like to see this deck with a small red component.  Two or three copies of Collapsing Borders will boost Kavu Predator and will frequently result in your opponents ending up with no net gain in life.  Packing three copies of Fiery Justice gives the deck oodles of panache and gives you much better board control while enabling your favoured win condition.  You still need some protection from artifacts and enchantments.  This seems like a good place to use good ol' Disenchant or maybe Return to Dust, which seems like it should have higher value in a multiplayer game than in a duel.  Two copies of either is all that I would recommend.  That's a total of eight cards, which means that you can add one or two lands to the deck, which wouldn't be a bad idea anyway.

If I had full control over the direction this deck would take, here are the changes that I would implement:

-4 Wall of Shards
-4 Reverent Silence
-2 Congregate
-3 Forest
-1 Plains

+2 Collapsing Borders
+3 Fiery Justice
+2 Return to Dust
+3 Rith's Grove
+4 Mountain

If your play group doesn't strenuously object to the Judgment Wishes, you could use Living Wish in place of Congregation of Dawn and have a wishboard consisting of a single copy of each of your basic lands, one copy of Rith's Grove, one of your Kavu Predators, and utility creatures such as Viridian Shaman or Avalanche Riders.  That might let you get away with not running any artifact or enchantment killers in your maindeck.  (Of course, now that I actually go and look at the resale price of Living Wish, that doesn't exactly jive with the goal of keeping the cost of the deck down, does it?)

[EnialisLiadon]

It's probably too slow, but Armistice could possibly find a home here.  I really just like any opportunity for a crap-rare to be possibly useful.

[TopSecret]

     I remember playing against a deck back in the day,
that used free life gain cards from Nemesis, and False Cure.
Would it be worth adding Black for False Cure?

[BradWayne]

Heroes' Reunion =  WG - Instant - Target Player Gains 7 Life
Ageless Entity 3GG = 4/4 - Whenever you gain life, put that many +1/+1 Counters on This Guy

I'd be playing both the kavu and the entity, and then you can point the targeted life gain at either player, depending on what you have on board...then random healing salve or leaves becomes real good.

And also

Well of Lost Dreams - 4 - Artifact - Whenever you gain life, you may pay X, where X is less than or equal to the amount of life you gained. If you do, draw X cards.

Which could also turn out stupid.

Hope this helps.

[Ephraim]

I actually got around to building this deck.  You'd be amazed, though, how difficult it can be to find obscure, unpopular cards.  For example, I would've sworn I had a few copies of Reward the Faithful lying around, but I don't -- and you can bet your behind that I'm not going to buy them.  As you'll see, I deviated somewhat from the initial concept and from my own recommendations.  I wanted a few more "utility" slots and I also wanted a bigger portfolio of threats, since having just four Kavu Predator seemed like a tenuous strategy.

Creatures (16)
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Thornweald Archer
4 Kavu Predator
2 Wall of Shards
3 Giant Warthog

Spells (20)
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Collapsing Borders
3 Healing Leaves
3 Invigorate
3 Creeping Mold
4 Fiery Justice

Land (24)
9 Forest
5 Mountain
7 Plains
3 Rith's Grove

***

The Giant Warthogs are the new addition to my collection of threats.  They aren't the most amazing card ever, but I think that they'll give me a little more steam than I otherwise would have.  I may trade for a playset of Rhox for that slot.  If I am going to be "serious" about multiplayer Magic, I think that Rhox would probably be a worthy investment. I also expect Collapsing Borders to wear my opponents down.  In many games, it will slowly, but surely pick away at at least one opponent.  I also expect it to be the card that generates the most utterances of, "no freaking way."  Like Fiery Justice, it is worth almost as much for the amazement that it will generate as for the effect.

Swords to Plowshares was mentioned in JeremM's initial post and I forgot about them until I noticed them in my own collection and remembered this deck.  Healing Leaves is the card that I selected to replace Reward the Faithful.  It probably doesn't fill the role quite as well, but it was easier to get my hands on.  Creeping Mold may be a mistake.  I'm not really sure.  It seems reasonable that I should have some way of dealing with enchantments and artifacts.  As many multiplayer writers have mentioned, it's a tough decision between packing my deck with business spells and ensuring that I'm not at the mercy of an opponent when something is played with which I can not abide.  When I find a fourth copy of Invigorate, I will replace one copy of Creeping Mold.

Thornweald Archer is kind of random.  The original deck concepts were very poorly defended, though.  A Kavu Predator that remains in play for more than two turns is going to become a huge threat and that is going to make me a target.  Having a guaranteed trade on the table is going to help warn off any player who isn't determined to take me out.

I think that the politics of this deck are going to be interesting.  In different circumstances, one might spread around the love from Fiery Justice, Invigorate, and Wall of Shards evenly.  In other situations, you'll be one other player's best friend.  The tension that other players will face between surviving Kavu Predator and taking advantage of the free life gain will make for some really fun games.

[Ephraim]

I played a couple of games with this deck on Friday and it performed terribly.  Granted, I was dueling with a Type 2 deck designed to compete, but I still feel as though it did particularly little.  I definitely had too few threats.  The one or two big creatures that I was able to play presented no great challenge for my opponent's removal.  Wall of Shards and Birds of Paradise have to go.  I could also use one fewer Creeping Mold.  That gives me six slots that I can fill with more effective threats.

My 3- and 4-casting-cost slots are underutilized, so I'll look there.  Thornscape Battlemage looks especially good.  It belongs to my main colour, I can utilize both of its Kicker modes, and it provides additional removal.  I'll add three of those.  Wildslayer Elves also look pretty good, so we'll try them.  (At this point, I'm honestly just experimenting with whatever strikes my fancy in the Standard environment.  I think I'm devoting more than enough space already to the Kavu Predator theme and trying to find more space where overlaps with the need for more threats is difficult.)

[Nydaeli]

Grove of the Burnwillows is a must-have with the red splash, I think, although it's a little pricy - it provides synergy as well as much-needed color stability.

[OldGreen]

Fiery Justice is a essential card. I like to have 1 or 2 red cards that let me attack twice as well: Relentless Assault/Seize the Day.
I've tried using Lightning Helix and found it to be mediocre.

This deck has killed on the 3rd turn in a 4 player game, on the back of Skyshroud Cutter + Heroes' Reunion. There was a good article about it on MTG.com a while back as well.

[Ephraim]

Fiery Justice is a essential card. I like to have 1 or 2 red cards that let me attack twice as well: Relentless Assault/Seize the Day.
I've tried using Lightning Helix and found it to be mediocre.

This deck has killed on the 3rd turn in a 4 player game, on the back of Skyshroud Cutter + Heroes' Reunion. There was a good article about it on MTG.com a while back as well.

Is this the writeup to which you are referring?  It's the only one that I can find that involves Skyshroud Cutter, although I don't see Heroes' Reunion there.

Relentless Assault is an interesting possibility.  I very seldom consider it, but I have three copies lying around here somewhere that won't find use in any other deck.  I still haven't gotten my hands on 3 Thornscape Battlemage, so I could fill those empty slots with Relentless Assault.  If I decide that I like them, I'll probably need to rework the mana base later.  I'm pretty sure that I do not have support for three cards with RR in their casting cost.

[OldGreen]

Yes, that's the article (although I think I read more about a similar deck somewhere, maybe SCG). I'm going to add some Ageless Entities to the deck (maybe two) to make the late game a bit more viable. They should make the Lightning Helix's a bit better, and it allows you to target yourself with the Hero's Reunion once your early Predator has been dealt with.
I also run 2 Collapsing Borders, which is decent at slowly building up your Predators/Entities without making you a target.

I play R/G/w, and I haven't found the RR to be too difficult, but I have a lot of duals (both the good and bad ones). I only have 2 while spells: Primal Justice and Lightning helix, but I think that maybe at least 2 of the helix's should be StP, since it pumps your Predators.

I have 3 Worldly Tutors and 1 Primal Command, which I'd like to change to 2/2. The PC's are incredible late game, pumping your Predators or giving you life + searching out another creature.

The Lairs are really handy- I find myself hoping for them + 1/2 dual lands in my opening draw.

Invigorate is a great idea. I'll add those and the Creeping Mold (or maybe wasteland), as I found that Maze of Ith just wrecks me, as I usually only have 1 huge creature at a time, and I seldom want to extend for 2 for fear of sweepers in a large game. Sometimes I do put 2 out, just because 1 Primal Justice or Reunion can turn them into lethal damage.

I think what I'm still lacking is a way to get them back once they die, as they are always heavily targeted/swept, and I really only have a few really good creatures. Maybe Genesis or Eternal Witness- other suggestions?
The only other issue is flying creatures. I've thought about Decimate (decent in multi-player)

I've found this deck to be fairly weak 1-1, unless you get the Predator + pump and they get no creature kill, which is mainly luck. The 'each opponent' clause of the Cutter is what makes this deck shine (well, and negating the drawback of several other good spells).

Hull Breach is the best anti-artifact/enchantment card I've found, but I wouldn't mind something similar that gave life as well.

[Harlequin]

For Casual/Multiplayer decks I find that AEther Web goes a long way if my deck is ill-prepaired to deal with evassion creature.

Also Wall of Shards isn't bad either against flyers / early attackers.

[OldGreen]

Wall of Shards is Perfect! Makes having a Predator on the board a bit more important.

[wiley]

This is the version that I have run in casual circles for a while now.

// Lands
        1 Forest
        1 Plains
        4 Bayou
        4 Savannah
        4 Scrubland
        4 Windswept Heath
        2 Wooded Foothills
// Creatures
        4 Kavu Predator
        3 Shriekmaw
        4 Skyshroud Cutter
        3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
        3 Mother of Runes
// Enchantments
        4 Ghostly Prison
// Spells
        2 Condemn
        3 False Cure
        4 Invigorate
        4 Swords to Plowshares
        1 Balance
        2 Regrowth
        3 Reverent Silence


I chose to go with black over red since it gave me another 'combo' route with false cure and gave me shriekmaws to deal with threats that were just too big.  Obviously cost wasn't in my mind, I just used the cards I had laying around, though I did cut back on the number of balance.  I never really tried to tune the deck to a large degree and just left it as a glass canon that would roll to magus and blood moon and counters.  One of the biggest problems with this build was that the combo could simply hide for upwards of 6 turns and you would be dead in the water.  A bonus is that it can easily kill all of your opponents on the second turn.

just my 2 cents.

[OldGreen]

Some more cards I've been putting into this deck:
Seeds of Innocence: destroy all artifacts, controllers gain life = to converted mana cost
Jungle Shrine makes: r/g/w
Primal Command: target gains 7 life + get a creature.
Reverent Silence: everyone gains 6 life, destroy all enchantments

Some I'm considering:
Energy Bolt: (x damage or x life to anyone)
Evolution Charm: (return a kavu, make it fly over deathtouch)

Some I cut:
Eladamri's Call: too slow/costly
Wall of shards: useless without a kavu - I may go back to 1)
Altar of Bone: don't have enough creatures to sac, other fetches are better

What I'm looking for are more creatures that have useful effects, since I have 8+ creature tutor cards.  I have 1 birds in right now (for blood moon). What other singletons might be handy?

I'm able to play with only 20 land, since I can do the combo with 2 lands, and go get it again with 3 (Congregation at Dawn). The Ageless Entity and Primal command are for longer games (I only have 2 of each).

I had one very satisfying game against a fully powered Stax deck where I used several StP and a Kavu to win, and another where I was 1 mana off casting the Seeds of Innocence in my hand and blowing him out 4 turns in a row (he kept destroying my land or increasing the cost of spells 1 every turn). Overall I'm having a blast playing it. Every person I show it to/play it against gets a kick out of it.

[fuller]

hey guys. i made this deck and recently took it to a casual turny at my college and took first. the competition wasnt to stiff, but i think that this deck has the possibility to be played 1/1. here is my list


creatures
3      Kavu Predator
3     Skyshroud Cutter
3     Sylvan Safekeeper


Spells
3     Fiery Justice
3     Heroes' Reunion
4     Invigorate
4     Living Wish
4     Reverent Silence
3     Seize the Day
4     Swords to Plowshares
4     Worldly Tutor


Lands
4    Brushland
2    City of Brass
9    Forest
3    Gemstone Mine
4    Grove of the Burnwillows


Sideboard
4      Gaddock Teeg
1    Kavu Predator
1    Skyshroud Cutter
1    Sylvan Safekeeper
3    Vexing Shusher
4    Naturalize   
1    Gemstone Mine


This List is more expencive than most others posted but the extra cash goes along ways. the masive amount of creature grab means that you will almost always get the cards required to "go off" and have shroud. with kavu predator, silvan safekeeper, and skyshroud cutter at three each, and 4 each of worldly tutor and living wish, you more or less are running 7 spots of "kavu predator" as well as the safekeeper and cutter. i dont run the wall because i would rather play kavu on turn 2 or three with a safekeeper in play and then swing. i think the wall gets in the way. the sideboard is VERY improtant to this deck. tell me what you guys think.