[Results] Blue Bell Tournament 3-31 (pics)

[ashiXIII]

I came from the Lehigh Valley 

I come from Allentown and it is about 45 mins to 1 hr.

You come from fucking everywhere, huh?

[desolutionist]

I came from the Lehigh Valley 

I come from Allentown and it is about 45 mins to 1 hr.

You come from fucking everywhere, huh?

Lehigh Valley is a county.  Allentown is a city.  Pennsylvania is a state. 

fucking retard

Wow, inappropriate.  Full Warning for violating Rule 2, Inflammatory Posting (flame).  -DA

[ashiXIII]

I came from the Lehigh Valley 

I come from Allentown and it is about 45 mins to 1 hr.

You come from fucking everywhere, huh?

Lehigh Valley is a county.  Allentown is a city.  Pennsylvania is a state. 

fucking retard

Philadelpha is the state. Everyone knows that, n00b.

[Godder]

Either this thread gets back on topic, or it gets locked.

[Sporkcore]

This was my first time at a Blue Bell tournament, and I had a great time. I got to meet new people and play some type 1. I'd like to thank the Forino brothers for the ride and next time Roland, I might let you win first round  .

[MISTERTREK]

Well I guess it's time I responded to all this. First though, I'd like to thank everyone who attended. It's great that we continue to expand our player base. I feel that the quality of play that the events are now offering is definately a major factor for the attracting of new players. So, that brings us to the issue of prize support. Personally, I feel the quality of prize support has gotten better since we first started back in November 2005. If the "old time" players think back, I didn't even offer a piece of power for 1st place at the first few events. Then I started giving away power for 1st, but 2nd place was usually a minor prize, with 3rd and 4th just getting $20 table credit. But now, I feel that 1st-4th has a nice structure. Yes, there have been times where I gave away 2 pieces of power, although that 2nd piece was a Timetwister both times. And, perhaps the Library was not as good as a Workshop or a Twister, but I also feel that to always offer the same prize would get boring. I do like to mix up the prize support to offer something different that may be attractive and keep things fresh. If you look at the overall "BIG" picture, was a Jet & Library combo not just as good as the Pearl & Workshop from the prior event? Plus the 3rd & 4th of the foil Sol Ring & Beta Swords, matched up nicely with the duals from the last event. But, it was a nice DIFFERENT package. So, yes it would be nice to go from a poor prize structure to a top 8 all power prize right away, but relistically that is not going to happen. And by relistically, that does include the business factor as part that answer. I know that players don't often care about that end of it, and rightly they shouldn't, but I do have to look at that end of the answer. Sometimes, my structure is based on me just happening to find something cool at a reasonable price, and unforunately, since I no longer have a physical store, I must rely on E-Bay most of the time to pick up the support. 

One direction that I do not wish to go is the "if we get this many players the support will be this, but if we get this many players the support will be that" To me, that is just an invitation for problems. I like to say that this is what my support is, so that everyone knows what to expect when they decide to attend, not a what if.

So, where do we go from here? I think with the quality of play that the events offer, we can continue to attract new players. And with that I think I can continue to slowly increase the prize support. These two factors will work hand in hand TOGETHER. So, the next question I have for all of you is: should I increase the support for 1st-4th or start to offer support for 5th-8th as well?? Please let me know.

The next issue is the judge. I fully agree that I need a working judge, not the judge by commitee that has been happening with the dozen or so judges that play in the events (once again, thank you for the help that many of you have provided doing this). I have tried through both networking and posting on the DCI judge search page. Any help that anyone could provide in this area would be greatly appreciated.

Finally, Id like to say that I feel that 50 player events can be in our future. Through continued strong competition, hard work on my end to offer increasingly better support and promotion of the events, on your part by bringing new players into the T1 community, and by keeping the fun playing atmosphere that the CCGames events are famous for. Good Luck to us all, and see you soon.

I'll be making the official post for the next event soon, so keep an eye out for the notice!!  Mike

[ashiXIII]

Well I guess it's time I responded to all this. First though, I'd like to thank everyone who attended. It's great that we continue to expand our player base. I feel that the quality of play that the events are now offering is definately a major factor for the attracting of new players. So, that brings us to the issue of prize support. Personally, I feel the quality of prize support has gotten better since we first started back in November 2005. If the "old time" players think back, I didn't even offer a piece of power for 1st place at the first few events. Then I started giving away power for 1st, but 2nd place was usually a minor prize, with 3rd and 4th just getting $20 table credit. But now, I feel that 1st-4th has a nice structure. Yes, there have been times where I gave away 2 pieces of power, although that 2nd piece was a Timetwister both times. And, perhaps the Library was not as good as a Workshop or a Twister, but I also feel that to always offer the same prize would get boring. I do like to mix up the prize support to offer something different that may be attractive and keep things fresh. If you look at the overall "BIG" picture, was a Jet & Library combo not just as good as the Pearl & Workshop from the prior event? Plus the 3rd & 4th of the foil Sol Ring & Beta Swords, matched up nicely with the duals from the last event. But, it was a nice DIFFERENT package. So, yes it would be nice to go from a poor prize structure to a top 8 all power prize right away, but relistically that is not going to happen. And by relistically, that does include the business factor as part that answer. I know that players don't often care about that end of it, and rightly they shouldn't, but I do have to look at that end of the answer. Sometimes, my structure is based on me just happening to find something cool at a reasonable price, and unforunately, since I no longer have a physical store, I must rely on E-Bay most of the time to pick up the support. 

One direction that I do not wish to go is the "if we get this many players the support will be this, but if we get this many players the support will be that" To me, that is just an invitation for problems. I like to say that this is what my support is, so that everyone knows what to expect when they decide to attend, not a what if.

So, where do we go from here? I think with the quality of play that the events offer, we can continue to attract new players. And with that I think I can continue to slowly increase the prize support. These two factors will work hand in hand TOGETHER. So, the next question I have for all of you is: should I increase the support for 1st-4th or start to offer support for 5th-8th as well?? Please let me know.

The next issue is the judge. I fully agree that I need a working judge, not the judge by commitee that has been happening with the dozen or so judges that play in the events (once again, thank you for the help that many of you have provided doing this). I have tried through both networking and posting on the DCI judge search page. Any help that anyone could provide in this area would be greatly appreciated.

Finally, Id like to say that I feel that 50 player events can be in our future. Through continued strong competition, hard work on my end to offer increasingly better support and promotion of the events, on your part by bringing new players into the T1 community, and by keeping the fun playing atmosphere that the CCGames events are famous for. Good Luck to us all, and see you soon.

I'll be making the official post for the next event soon, so keep an eye out for the notice!!  Mike

The prize structure is great, Mike. I don't think anyone is complaining about it. If you'd like to increase it, I'd suggest doing so for 1st-4th and not 5th-8th. I'll PM you with the e-mail addresses of some local DCI certified judges.

[Khahan]

Mike,
As you and I discussed, I think you work on the prize support for 1-4 and continue to beef that up.  5th-8th had their chance at a prize and while it sucks to just miss....you can't provide everything.

One thing that may help is some more input from the players at the tournament.  For the regulars and those planning on attending future Blue Bells, assume the prize support is something along the lines of:
power/drain, drain/X/X  or power/library/X/X or power/power/x/x (on occassion) or power/workshop/XX...

What would you like to see in those X slots?

Personally, I liked the 3rd and 4th place prizes being 'different'  versions of Vintage staples. I'm very happy w/ Beta versions of sol rings, demonics or foil judge/promo versions. I also wouldn't mind seeing multiple U duals in those slots, either or a group of FoW.  Multiple foil confidants, ichorids etc.   Basically cards that have good saleability.  If I end up winning a set of FoW...but I know I can resell them very easily.  Those are the kinds of things I like seeing for 3rd or 4th. Any other ideas?

[Midknight]

Blue Bell is alot of fun, whatever the prizes are im sure I wont miss out on the tourament.

Another thing you could do that might help Mike, is by also putting result slips on the tables with a drop off box, instead of having to go up and tell you who won. I do like how you have the table mark, unlike before you had to find who you were playing and sit at a random spot.

For twenty bucks, I think your prizes are decent. You have to remember when Starcity has P9 touraments the cost is I think 30, which is a big increase.

Yes I agree with everyone else, you do need a Judge. I think one good Judge would be enough since most of the players dont have rule questions and its not like its a huge tourament.

I am just glad you promote T1 in this area. Without you having them I would have to travel so much further to go to a tourament.

[Nehptis]

Prize support is great, play is competitive and the tournies are great.  Any enhancements are just icing on a super cake!

[desolutionist]

So, where do we go from here? I think with the quality of play that the events offer, we can continue to attract new players. And with that I think I can continue to slowly increase the prize support. These two factors will work hand in hand TOGETHER. So, the next question I have for all of you is: should I increase the support for 1st-4th or start to offer support for 5th-8th as well?? Please let me know.

I'd rather see concentrated prize support for 1st-2nd than any other configuration.  (Or even only a Lotus for 1st)  But I don't think it matters to most people, including me, how you decide to distribute prizes.

[ashiXIII]

So, where do we go from here? I think with the quality of play that the events offer, we can continue to attract new players. And with that I think I can continue to slowly increase the prize support. These two factors will work hand in hand TOGETHER. So, the next question I have for all of you is: should I increase the support for 1st-4th or start to offer support for 5th-8th as well?? Please let me know.

I'd rather see concentrated prize support for 1st-2nd than any other configuration.  (Or even only a Lotus for 1st)  But I don't think it matters to most people, including me, how you decide to distribute prizes.

I personally like good prize for first, okay prize for second,  and "well, at least I got SOMETHING" for 3rd/4th.

I would like to see something like BB blue duals for 3rd/4th, although I realize that's a step up from what we have now.

[MarkPharaoh]

Glad to see someone rocking with Oath in my absence.  Maybe i'll come to the next one.  Hopefully Colby will come to.

[Midknight]

I would like to see Colby get back into magic. I dont think hes played for the past 2 1/2 months. The last time he went to a tourament was when we went down to the last pre-release. I havnt really seen or talk to him much afterwards. He also hasnt been showing up at all, at are local card shop. I think hes addicted to World of War Craft with Dan. For that reason I think thats why Dan didnt go to the last two.

[Zarathustra]

They call it "World of WarCRACK" for good reason.  Once you click, you life is their's....::maniacal laughter::

On that note, I'm hoping to get to some Blue Balls, I mean Blue Bells sometime soon.  I miss hanging with you guys and I miss playing Vintage.

-DShell

[kev]

Mike-
I'd prefer good prizes for 1st and 2nd then smaller prizes for all of the top 8. Honestly though, I'm gonna come no matter what the prize structure is because it's a Type 1 tournament thats always fun.

Also, I am going to repeat this because it was cool the first time you had it

I also think you should bring back the Type 1 side event. If people are really going to continue to travel from long distances, it would be cool to have another chance to play if you scrub out

[ashiXIII]

Mike-
I'd prefer good prizes for 1st and 2nd then smaller prizes for all of the top 8. Honestly though, I'm gonna come no matter what the prize structure is because it's a Type 1 tournament thats always fun.

Also, I am going to repeat this because it was cool the first time you had it

I also think you should bring back the Type 1 side event. If people are really going to continue to travel from long distances, it would be cool to have another chance to play if you scrub out

Agreed. Something like a $5 or $10 event starting alongside the last Swiss round of the main event, or with the top 8 of the main event. You'd get all the people who scrubbed in the Vintage event to play, as they normally wouldn't play in any of the other events.

[MISTERTREK]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for all your input so far, keep it coming!! The T1 side event was definately on my agenda, especially since the participation in the Extended & Legacy events the past few times has been less than expected. I was thinking about a $10 entry, single elimination with something like a Drain or Alpha/Beta dual for 1st. If we get enough players, perhaps a 2nd place prize as well. joe thanks for the leads on judges, I know both guys pretty well.

Mike
CCGames

[Midknight]

Heres the reason why I would like to see the prizes spread out nicely in the top 8 or top 4.  So once you top 8  or top 4 your not gambling that much. This will also help from people wanting to split, since its less to gamble. Maybe something like this would be great.

Heres a roundabout on what the cards cost on ebay

1st  Workshop   $180 card
2nd  Bazaar of Baghdad    $170 card
3rd  Grim Tutor   $125 card
4th  Mana Drain   $85 card

So this would cost you around $560

Now that would be cool if you did somthing like this but its kinda expentive

1st  Beta Underground Sea $260
2nd Beta Volcanic Island  $210
3rd  Beta Tundra   $150
4th Beta Tropical Island  $140

So this would cost you around $760

Now im sure the last one is out of qustion since it would cost you close to $800 but that would be awesome. Or maybe if you had one like this charge an extra five bucks or something. You could also possibly do a huge one like once are twice a year that cost five dollars extra and give out better prizes. If you have better prizes people are going to be more willing to travel further to go to them. I would like to keep Bluebell growing. I love type one.

I think you need to ask the people maybe have them take a vote when they hand there deck list in at the next bluebell to see if people would be in favor to spend and extra five bucks to have better prizes. This would also be interesting to see how the turnout is for better prizes. I like the $20 tourament fee but I would be willing to spend an extra $5 once in awhile for better prizes. What do you people think about this?

[Khahan]

While I don't like the idea of having Beta versions of duals for first (lets face it, from a pure utility aspect, its still a card that can be purchased for $35 to $40), I do like the idea of an extra $5 for overall increased prize support.  Mike did this once with the Black Lotus. He polled everybody there and I believe got a resounding yes.   I can't imagine the response would be any different if he took the poll at the next tournament.

As for prizes, I'd like to continue seeing 1st place be filled by power. After that, single set-high value cards (like drain, workshop etc) are good for 2nd place with an occassional BB dual for variety.

[Nehptis]

I think the prize support was fine last month.  I agree with Khahan that Power is better than Pimp for the top 2 prizes.  Meaning a Mox or LOA is preferred over Beta Lands.  IMO, a structure like Mike had last month works fine.

If $20 Entry:
1st = Mox or Timewalk (UNL)
2nd = LOA, Bazaar, Timetwister (UNL), or Grim Tutor
3rd = Any Card in $30-$40 range (pimp cards like DCI Foils work well here)
4th = Any card in $20 range or entry fee returned.  Let's face it you were 4th, you did good but not great.  Thanks for coming here's your Entry fee back.  I split 3rd and 4th last month and we got back basically our entry credit, which was fine.

I think it's better to build some more support before raising the tournament fees.  Having a side event is a good idea to increase support and keep people playing who scrub out of the main event.

[Midknight]

Im not complaining about the prizes. Something better would just top off the icing on the cake . I love playing at Bluebell, I have played there alot, not missing a single one for like the past 11 or so.

You see for me, I would rather have the beta duals over power. Reason why is I already have the P9 and all the other great pieces, even though I never play with my power I have pimp out proxies of it, and playing with the real, is just to risky even though 95 percent of the people there are decent. I would like to build up my Alpha-Beta Collection. But honestly im kool with, whatever the prizes are. Always have been always will be.

[yespuhyren]

Trade power for beta duals + more then...if you are only getting a beta dual for first then I'd rather have power because that is beta sea + some trade value.

[MISTERTREK]

Well, all of this info has been quite helpful. It looks like that from the majority of the posts, that I'm pretty well on target with the prize support. The T1 side event definately will become part of the line-up too. So, if any other suggestions pop into your minds, don't hesitate to keep this thread going. See you soon...Mike

[Khahan]

Mike has announced his next tournament and apparently took all the suggestions to heart. I think this is his best prize structure yet (barring a double P9 event).

[desolutionist]

Mike, not trying to be rude, but you have to stop switching dates on us.  A lot of us work and schedule off on the first date we hear (it was scheduled for the 26th at the last event)

I'm assuming something happened with the college, finals, and graduation.

[MISTERTREK]

Hey Shawn, sorry about that & understandable on the date change, that's why I marked it as *tentative* on the flyer and was verbaly saying to watch for an official posting on the event. The college decided to close on the holiday weekend this year and that removed that date being available and all other May weekends were booked. I didn't not want to have an event for 2 1/2 months, so Vicki and I worked out the deal to do May 19th at Infinite Quests. Hope you can still make it. I should have the June date confirmed by the 19th.

[desolutionist]

I'll definitely be there.  I was speaking for the people that I know missed out on the last event because of a date change and the people who will be missing out for this event.

But no offense intended, I understand that certain things are unavoidable.

@infinite quests - I heard they charge for the amount of time that you're there (in the building) because of computer games.  (Even if you're not actually playing one)  Will it be this way for the tournament?

[MISTERTREK]

No, there will not be a charge for attending the tournaments.

[MISTERTREK]

I have had several people ask if we will make Future Sight legal for our next T1 event since it will be DCI legal less than 24hrs from the start of the event. Although I have been hesitant to legalize sets before the official date, I will leave it up to you this time. Please respond on this post if you want or don't want FS to be legal for the main and side T1 events. I will make the decission based on your input. (Note: T2 is sanctioned and cannot change). Also, I have updated the Champions standings on our site if you'd like to check the new standings. www.collegevillecards.com