[Deck's Discussion] - Keep her Confidant about 2007

[MaxxMatt]

Hi all again.

This thread is expected to be so *vintage* and nostalgic in his earth, I thought hard about his title far before thinking his content. Feel free to ask me "WHY this deck... AGAIN?"   ...I would joke with you on this issue as much as you want, but the only last, very important reason is my love for *control* decks.

4Color control is a good old woman and I'm transfixed by his scent and tortured by his glamouring gaze.
This deck is an angry female... flustered not be played again...


Would you like a deck can stall the game enough to let you feel an unbeatable superstar for more than 20 minutes?
Would you play without the need of playing for the win?
Would you like more outplaying your opponents rather than winning games?

Ok.
You approached in a "...safe place, where nothing can harm you...
..relax, take a deep breath, and make the heartbeat slower...
9...
7..
5...
3...
1.."


There are only a few things I really enjoy playing when piloting KeepHerConfidant

(2)
R Balance
R Mindtwist


Those two things are unnaturally strong bombs.
They are not going to be missed even there, where anyone seems to play Mis.Ds or CreatureLess decks
Their drawback is so little you would cry not to have added them to you rack of possible spells

Now I have to tutor for them.
It's not an easy task, but we can try.

(5)
2 Cunning Wish
R Burning Wish
R Demonic Tutor
R Mystical Tutor


There are a lot of subtle sensations when adding slow cards to a slow deck.
Am I wrong?
Am I horribly outdated?
It is not the case.
I added Wishes because of solutions' redundancy.
I both need strong sorceries and adapt instants.
Are they a necessity? Can't I substitute them with maindeck solutions or different and quicker things?

The odd answer is YES!, of course.
Merchants, Vampiric and Intuitions can search for maindeck things better than Wishes, but I preferred them because of two reasons:
1- I don't want Vampiric Tutor maindeck, but I want to be able to search for it when needed. Sideboards are filled with Instant speed spells even if I avoid playing Wishes. I can stall the game with the rest of the deck, so I'll build on my own the time needed to sometimes resolve them
2- This deck doesn't rotate onnly around resolving BlueInstants, both defensively or aggressively speaking. I want to be able to cast as much coloured bombs I can. Mystical, B.Wish and Demonic are good tools to grab almost anything. C.Wish for Vampiric also is a good way to mimic them, when you have mana on table.

At now, I have three or four different logic paths to follow on explaining my following choices.
As usual, for the ones addicted to my writings, I will come back to the base for a while.

I'm going to describe you the most thrilling 4c-manabase ever made in years

(23)
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Island
2 Undeground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Tundra
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal


Am I fool?
No, I feel really confidant on the thinning effect Fetchlands would apply to the deck and the strong protection they are inherently offering to my ( otherwise poor ) mana base. I'm going to abuse of them as much as I can. The overall cc of the deck isn't so high ( you will see it yourself ) and not more than 2 or 3 lands are needed to start building victories.
I would not play with those lands and nothing more, but those are the ones that, *simply give me mana*

Protections and drawers are not especial choices:

(18)

4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
---
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Confidant
R Ancestral Recall
R Fact or Fiction



Even the last restricted cards are an automatic addition:

(3)

R Yawgmoth's Will
R Time Walk
R Tinker


Let me count the space remainded and the needed spells to give this deck a strong, new identity
2+5+23+18+3=51
Nice!!!
I have 9 more spells to add to this bijoux!

(9)

4 Repeal
2 Gorilla Shaman
1 Sundering Titan
R Stripmine
R Timetwister



60 cards.
the work doesn't end here.
Why those cards over other ones?
Untl now, I felt really bad when playing without control board.
Shamans, Repeals, Strip, Titan and even Twister itself are board control.
Titan let me optimize at his maximum the resolution of Tinker. Have you thought since when someone would counter your tinker? Isn't it expecting something nastier than DSC? Titan steals lands. Precious Islands and different Duals. Strip itself is a strong conjuction to this Tinker effect, Twister and Y.Will are good way to enhance that effect ( not always useful ) without needing the addition of CoW, a card too slow to be played yet.

Are you going to ask me why Confidants over Whispers or Skeletals?
Confidants are beaters and chumpers.
Both these reasons let me think that in the economy of every game, dealing two more damages every turn make the final attack more easier to plan.
Am I going to attack with Confidants every turn? OF COURSE YES!!! Repeals and the other tools are perfect fits to both kill chumpers or let me deal with resolved threats.

Is the mana curve of the deck too high to support a full set of confidants? of course not! I will play them for almost forever!
Am I missing something?

YES!
SIDEBOARD CHOICES!!!

This is the sideboard I'm going to play in my future tourney:

(15)
--
2 Tormod's Crypt
--
2 Rack & Ruin
1 Hurkyll's Recall
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Gush
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Darkblast
1 Trickbind
--
3 Duress
1 Pyroclam
1 Tendrils of Agony

Ok, now I'm full, satisfied and calm!
Is my experience with the deck finished with this list?
Of course no!
I will write thousand lines on the matchups and secondary deeper descriptions of this deck's mechanic.
Nothing that can be cut-copyed from the past, but real ways to deal with modern metagame piloting ( or better... mastering ) this deck.

I will be back tomorrow.
Read and play this list before writing about doubts or problems!
I'll be here to fix them all!

MaxxMatt

[Mon, Goblin Chief]

Yey 4CC!

Are you sure you want to run SB Tendrils over Empty? It seems like you should often be able to win easy with a small bunch of Goblins than going for a real Tendrils kill.
24 Mana seems a little low, but is probably fine with 4 Confidants.
Why hell Timetwister and not something stronger? I really don't get why everybody wants to play that thing again, suddenly. First RepealGifts, now even 4CC? The card is just bad, at least in anything not totally focused on turn 1/2 kills. And even there draw7s are rather weak, compared to the good threats.

As for Balance, I really like that card, same for Mind Twist. But with the way the current meta looks (and creatures in your own deck in case of Balance) it might be better in the Wish-board with Duress MD instead. 

[Prometheon]

With all of those Repeals, it seems like a waste to not run at least one MD storm spell...

[AmbivalentDuck]

Erayo is so sexy with that mana base and the Repeals.

[Pave]

Hi MaxxMatt,

I appreciate your efforts with an archetype that I like and consider viable despite conventional wisdom to the contrary.  You should certainly play the deck that you enjoy and can master and metagame the most.  I'm afraid I won't be taking cues from your list just yet, however.  I gave the deck an admitedly quick run and made some observations that I think would bear out over further testing.

Your deck has loosely the same draw engine as SS (Dark Confidant).  However, it doesn't have its more reliable mana base (only 3 colours), redundant threat base (Cutpurse and Erayo in concert with Confidant), and early disruption (making way for these threats, maindeck Duress especially).  Instead it has a number of bombs and a wishboard which tax the manabase too hard.  Sometimes you have the right colour and amount of mana in time, and sometimes you don't.  I experienced good old-fashioned colour screw more than I like to.

This deck includes a single Tundra purely for Balance, but the four Confidants and two Shamans reduce the utility and power of that card dramatically in my opinion.  I have a fetchland in play but my Tundra is in hand.  There are relevant inconveniences to having only one Tundra.  I would prefer to cut white and add Empty the Warrens in place of Balance, especially given the four Repeals.  (An Erayo might even replace a Shaman here too, though it is likely that a single Erayo is far too random and conditional.)

Your Tinker only has one real target, which I find limiting but not unacceptable, but what's more he can really wreck your own (highly coloured) manabase.  You can take all the care in the world but when backed into a corner your win condition of choice may turn on you and cause you to lose.

I'm aware of how Keeper can use Timetwister judiciously (in combination with Shaman, for instance) to gain a great advantage.  It can also serve as graveyard disruption and replenish the bombs you would tutor for.  For all that I still don't think it's worth it.  Even if I kept it I'd probably side it out most games, partly to keep Burning Wish useful.

You can't reliably use Burning (and Cunning) Wish in combination with Skeletal Scrying.  Nor can you reliably Wish for Pyroclasm and cast it that turn because of the double red colour requirement.  A three-cost Duress is bad.  You shouldn't need to Will twice.  And do you really kill via Tendrils that often?  By the time you have that much mana I'd imagine Tinker-Titan (or almost anything) would suffice.  I don't think Burning Wish is doing much.  It may be that Tendrils is sometimes needed to reverse the life loss that Confidants, Mana Crypt, and even Drain mana can cause, but that's its own problem.  I don't like steadily losing life in a deck that seeks to stretch the game out.

With Confidants over Scryings (and Decrees) you have too few Drain sinks, in my view, and too little incentive to Drain generally.  That is a major problem in deck design, I think.  Without maindeck Duress and effective combo hate post-side, I also think that fast combo decks will too easily ignore you.  For all these reasons I still believe that Zherbus's old 3cc maindeck (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=22366.0) is superior.  I simply add to his sideboard of:

1 Gush
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Disenchant
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Serenity
4 Chalice of the Void

this:

1 Repeal (or Stifle)
3 Extirpate

Strange that a change of four in 75 cards over two years could prove adequate but I really think it does.

Are there any other current multi-colour control lists out there?

[MaxxMatt]

I'm here again.
Thanks for the hints and suggestions, I would explain choices and reasons behind added cards in a more focused way, now.

Are you sure you want to run SB Tendrils over Empty? It seems like you should often be able to win easy with a small bunch of Goblins than going for a real Tendrils kill.

I don't know which one would be the best for a couple of reasons:
- For my opponent, E.Truth/E.E. is simpler to setup when compared to Stifle/Trickbind. EtW's impact has largely threated people as much as you can think: thousand of 1/1 are enough to scare anyone, so a lot of people, seeing Shamans, Confidants and Drains, would prepare dealing with Goblins.
- This deck, such as any other 4C-C one, is a Y.Will.dec . Killing people with ToA is preferred, IMHO, when planning to repeteadely hit opponents with critters until Y.Will will come down.

I will add EtW maindeck, if B.Wish would not help me winning as much as I think.
EtW, infact, is far better maindecked than ToA when trying to win with a so much *mixed* winning plan.
On the other hand, B.Wish and ToA ( despite being both off.color ) are good when you can abuse of Walk or when your Repeals/Brainstorm would have helped you rising the storm count up to 4 or 5.
Without Recoup/Walk/Gifts, EtW's plan isn't so strong. You cannot always put Goblins in play and then finish the opponent. You are often going to give him another turn to recover, instead.

24 Mana seems a little low, but is probably fine with 4 Confidants.

You can consider adding LoA or Mana#25, too.
I observed for a long time German people  perform well with 26.mana.fonts.decs too but I think that your metagame is so much control o aggro.control oriented that it could be difficultly replicated almost elsewhere. In every place Wastelands and Smockestacks and Drains are huge, there are only a thing a control.dec can do in order to survive: *don't miss a land drop*. People who are mastering control strategies usually prefer trying to win in flood situations because of their own game skill but flood still remain one of the worst way to lose balanced games. I added Repeals and Confidants. In a deeper perspective, their presence can be weighted as a balance for the *missing* mana fonts. Their best effect is not to *stall* in topdeck position and to continuosly surf through the deck searching for solutions or bombs.
 
If you evaluate this perspective, Brainstorms, Confidants, Repeals and Fetchlands will thin the deck as much as you need to both HAVE lands in play and AVOID flood/screw. Their own initial mana development is really low and they are good even if you bounce your own mox to draw cards or if you risk an U.Se against Wastelands.dec in order to maximize your own FUTURE spells. While Color.screw is possible, even with 6 fetches, I never performed mana.screw in test. This isn't an *end-all* statement, but I'm to wise to pick up a deck that can autolose games because of mana.




Denial pressure made by this deck isn't so strong in a  long term perspective. It would help you unbalance game situations, if you can contemporarily put pressure with Strip/Titan/Shaman/Y.Will. Otherwise, all those control board elements aren't game ending. On the other hand, trying to play a good control deck with maindecked CoWs, at now, is

Why hell Timetwister and not something stronger? I really don't get why everybody wants to play that thing again, suddenly. First RepealGifts, now even 4CC? The card is just bad, at least in anything not totally focused on turn 1/2 kills. And even there draw7s are rather weak, compared to the good threats.

I played, until now, an UB controlcombo deck. I pack in Timetwister because I NEED something can possibly regrowth my discarded Y.Will or, more generally, reshuffle all my previously gone resources. At now, I was weighting the possibility to add Gifts/Recoup to this deck. It will have dramatically added other control elements of the commonly used MDGifts.decs or ControlGifts.dec, so I rejected this idea. Without Green, the only really good thing could help me recovering from bad situation, is Timetwister. I need to put ALL my balls out in order to play Twister again Tier1s, but I discovered that the rest of the deck can help me play *asymmetrical* twisters: Shaman would force opponents to shuffle back moxen, Titan/Strip don't help him avoiding draw lands and, if you are playing G2 and G3, T.Crypts would deny him of almost half of his deck in a single shot.

Evaluating the impact of Timetwister in this perspective, IMHO, isn't worth is addition... BUT...
because of Critters damage, because of Repeals and because of the possibility to kill people via ToA, I FELT the need of this possible BOOST. Which spell can give you 7 cards without drawbacks? Not a better or undercosted one!!!

When would I play Timetwister?... uhm.. not always, not frequently, but when it is worth the risk and can let me save myself or win in a single turn with 7 new fresh cards.

As for Balance, I really like that card, same for Mind Twist. But with the way the current meta looks (and creatures in your own deck in case of Balance) it might be better in the Wish-board with Duress MD instead.

sorry, I have to go.... I will finish later!!!!;)
...to be continued

[Gort32]

If you are looking to use Timetwister to recur spent resources, that implies that you are already sufficiently well-established in mana, might Time Spiral be a better choice here?  It might sound like an odd choice and there is likely a better card to fill this slot than either one, but given your reasons for wanting Timetwister, Time Spiral looks like it would give you the same effect without you being raped by combo while your pants are down by tapping out for Twister.  Even if you cast Spiral and say go, you at least have counter mana up for your opponent's first turn with a full hand of cards.  Twister would be better for the control matches (less of a drain target, easier to protect) while Spiral might be better against combo.

I'm still in the camp of using the slot for something better, but if this effect is what you want to fill this slot with, weigh your choices.

[Mon, Goblin Chief]

I played, until now, an UB controlcombo deck. I pack in Timetwister because I NEED something can possibly regrowth my discarded Y.Will or, more generally, reshuffle all my previously gone resources. At now, I was weighting the possibility to add Gifts/Recoup to this deck. It will have dramatically added other control elements of the commonly used MDGifts.decs or ControlGifts.dec, so I rejected this idea. Without Green, the only really good thing could help me recovering from bad situation, is Timetwister. I need to put ALL my balls out in order to play Twister again Tier1s, but I discovered that the rest of the deck can help me play *asymmetrical* twisters: Shaman would force opponents to shuffle back moxen, Titan/Strip don't help him avoiding draw lands and, if you are playing G2 and G3, T.Crypts would deny him of almost half of his deck in a single shot.

Evaluating the impact of Timetwister in this perspective, IMHO, isn't worth is addition... BUT...
because of Critters damage, because of Repeals and because of the possibility to kill people via ToA, I FELT the need of this possible BOOST. Which spell can give you 7 cards without drawbacks? Not a better or undercosted one!!!

When would I play Timetwister?... uhm.. not always, not frequently, but when it is worth the risk and can let me save myself or win in a single turn with 7 new fresh cards.

This sounds a lot as if you want a Twister in your wishboard for those rare occasions :p Now you've got room for the MD Empty

Just on another note, I hate hate hate Tinker by now (I was so happy to realize I could cut it for EtW when that was printed). It's just such a huge setback if it gets countered. I always find myself reshuffling it with BS when I have it in hand before having effectively won already. And it forces you to run hard to cast artifact fat MD...

Finally, the deck that won the last big (~90 players) tournament here in Paris (yes, I moved, so I'm not really a German player any more. Doesn't change my mana base-concerns ) did run Teferi MD. This card is actually amazing, even with its wicked CC.

[Sean Ryan]

What a nice piece of nostalgia!

I 2nd the notion of EtW - seems very Keeper-esque.  Titan over DSC in 4cc? You get more of an emphasis on shutting down mana but in many matchups you may be on the losing end of the trade here. 

How about Crucible to further mana support and threats?  Possibly in the SB if not maindeck.

I would also like to see one of those  Repeals become a Tormod's Crypt. 

Maybe a Counterbalance/Tops to go with the Confidants... on second thought, nah.


Thanks for the post MaxxMatt its in good spirit...even if not the most competive.  (Funny how both Vroman has posted in a similair vein).

Sean

[zeus-online]

Crucible is simply too slow, everytime i've tried to make 3cc/4cc/Keeper work in the past couple of years i've reached that conclusion. It's only good if you draw the nutz, like lotus, crucible, strip mine - And without FoW backup it's not always enough.

/Zeus

[forests failed you]

Crucible is NOT too slow, and futhermore its actually really good in a deck like this. 

I hate Sundering Titan in this deck.  You are playing 4 colors, be serious... Half of the time you play this card you are going to be in jeopardy of hurting yourself more than you are hurting them.

Cut that guy and play Darksteel Colossus.  He's a fine man, and a very solid win condition for a counterspell deck.

I won two Mox tournaments playing Keeper in Michigan about a year ago.  I would strongly advise you to play 1 maindeck Isochron's Scepter in the deck.  It gives you a second strong Tinker target.  And with Cunning Wish an alternate win Scenerio...  You can wish for O. Chant.  Looks kind of spicy, good luck!

[MaxxMatt]

hi all,

I start from the bottom, with comments and possible explainations about mine and your writings.

I noticed different thought among the ones answered here.
The argument is pretty simple and fully argumentable.

If you take it alone, in a good mixed metagame, CoW itself is good and can prove to be solid protecting your own mana base.
The problem arise only when you try to put it in a SLOW deck, with a SLOW friend ( Stripmine ) and with FAST&FURIOUS opponents.
The nuts consist on a CoW with a tutor for an answarable Stripmine.
You need a full turn in order to POSSIBLY kill one of his lands.
If he build the deck in a good way, you have to protect yourslef from his OWN subsequent turn.
He can build a stable mana base simply pulilng out moxen and without missing a land drop.
They can Walk into another turn and simply neglect your own effective denial recursion for another unexpected turn.
On the other hand, if you have CoW out, you can be tapped out and with a single FoW in hand.

Is it STRONG? Yes.
Is it NEEDED? No, especially because the deck consist on a crucial COOL way to optimize a "paradenial" strategy without the need of Maindeck CoW.
Titan kill opponents lands faster than CoW+Strip and Stripmine can be tutored and recurred when needed, in order to slow down a bit opponents.

Is it BETTER than a fully and stable Strip recursion? Of course not!
Is it FASTER than the previous described game situation and is it less clunky? OF COURSE YES!

Which is the WORST among the problems a good 4ccontrol.deck has? Be predictable, static and ... uhm... SLOW!
I added as much control elements I can choosing them ONLY among the ones that effectively DO SOMETHING when I resolve them.

Am I going to put in it DSC and CoW? HELL, NO!
Why? Because you have to sometimes tap you out with some amount of mana.
Has this mana development a cool effect once used for them? NO!
Are they game ending the subsequent turn? HELL, NO!!!
Are they predictable and easily answerable? HELL, YES!!!

Sadly... I have to regret the use of CoW, even if I miss it sometimes, when the game slow down and when I have random of subpar opponents.
Maybe, a single Tutorable CoW can be added in side, for stability reasons.

You are true about the possibility to lose one or two lands when hitting with Titan.
On the other hand, I have to describe you the game situations WHEN, I have to abuse of Tinker as fast as I can and for porpouses FAR different rather than killing people with 7/10.

PitchLong, TPS and GoodControl decks have EXTRASTRONG mana bases. 2x Swamp or Multiple Islands and a lot of fetches, make my stripmine a null denial effect and shaman only a noisy man, rather than a Bomb. Against them, you have to put out balls and put a fast Tinker. Is DSC the right way to deal with them? Of course no. They can bounce it WHENEVER they want, possibly even needing to tutor for  a solutions. It is hit by ANYTHING Combo and ControlCombo decks, usually pack in. For these reasons, I have to fetch for Islands, wait their  first or second lands drop, put out a Tinker and STEP THEM BACK OF 2 TURNS IMMEDIATELY, stealing a Swamp/U.Sea and an Island in a single shot! Is this game over? Of course not, but you are heading the game from a superior point of view! You negate them the possibility to abuse of stable mana fonts. A resolver Titan, translate itself in at least into two times walks for you, while DSC would have been nothing more than a noisy fly to bounce back. 

It is perfect to deal with UW and UWB Fish decks too. They need their own lands FAR MORE THAN you. They have to resolve M.Mage and Confidants, both colors out, they will lose ALL their lands in a single kick and they have to wait for other mana fonts from a deck with an unusual low mana count. If they don't keep a StP or a Bouncer in hand, they suddenly LOSE the ability to fast deal with 7/10 that instantly can be compared with DSC, when racing people without mana at their disposal.

Of course, more the game went on, and far more are the possibility that you have had the need to resolve both Shaman and Confidant, doubling the possibility to lose a Volcanic or an Undergroound. The deck, on the other hand, is STUDIED to pretty well perform with 2 or 3 mana fonts on board. Confidants and Repeals and Brainstorms are FAST way to search for Fetches and Fetches themselves will protect you from losing your own lands: simply don't search for lands as soon as they are put on board, especially if you are optimizing your plays to resolve a cool TinkerForTitan.

Feel free to add DSC in that slot, but my reasoning are far wiser than they can appear to a quick glance.
I usually play with DSC main and Titan on board in almost ANY other deck.
This version of 4c-c can support the change that I made from side to main: you would enhance the strenght of a "so-so" spell ( such as Tinker can be considered in a pure control deck such as this one ).

As i previously state, I want things that can functions by themselves.
EtW and Teferi are, IMHO, good replacing for Tinker and Titan.
Even Meloku, can be tried in Teferi Slot, too.
Those cards, are really good when you are back and you have to win.

Feel free to exchange winners configuration as much as you can in order to find the BEST configuration.
At now, I would keep Timetwister maindeck, I will keep B.Wish for *alternate winning conditions* and I can think to abuse of only two other slots for additional winners.
If you think about HOW the deck usually perform, Shamans and Confidants usually bring opponents down in life and additional kill conditions are *incidental*.
If you are going to steal some lands and some artifacts, if you are going to draw cards freely, THEN, you can even win your own Penis! ... especially if opponents are girls

On the other hand, both Meloku, Teferi and EtW are cards worth trying.
I tested them in different deck and I LOVE THEM ALL SINGLEHANDLY.
For this deck, I simply choose to play the one that, IMHO, seems to HELP more on establishing control, with a little mana development ( that is the BEST part of my argument, even if it is the latter: Tinker cost 3 and I have fewer mana fonts than other 4cc decks).

Hi man, nice to be the *good old fashioned lover boy* for you all this time
I would put a bit more emphasis  on Titan and Crushed Lands.
I usually don't pull out more than a single Island and ONE Dual land during the first two initial turns.
When you are playing with keeper, you would recognize HOW STRONG would be not to quickly act proactively with lands, because the deck can offer NASTY mana situations, especiallly UNEXPECTED ones. If you are wise, there are really few possibilities that a resolved Titan ............................. ............................. ..................



to be continued

[Zherbus]

There's a few schools of thought in regards to multi-colored control that you have to resolve in your own mind before committing to a build.

1) What is the correct type of resource to attack? If it's mana, then load in the two Shamans and Crucible/Strips (btw, I don't think you can run Shamans without Strips and be entirely effective). I personally think the proper mode of attack right now is the hand, thus I still believe in 4 Duress + Mind Twist + Balance. I don't think Crucible is slow - it's fine, but the deck space for it commits you to a strategy to a degree. My last build was solid because I wasn't trying to play the Wasteland game in an environment full of basic lands (both Fish and Slaver had plenty) and combo, it allowed me deck room for extra acceleration and more basics which meant faster bombs, bigger Decrees, bigger Scryings, and more resiliance to opposing Wastelands. Also, post board I could have a strong Chalice for X much more regularly.

2) Some multi-colored control deck players believe in the "mini-combo". A mini-combo would be something like Tinker-Colossus, Scepter-Chant, or even stuffing a single Gifts in there. I don't disagree with this concept, though you have to make sure it's not going to make your harder matchups worse. On a basic level, if you're destroying combo and other control decks, packing a Razormane Masticore might be good if you're losing to Fish. But if your hardest matchup is Fish, then Scepter-Chant isn't likely to solve it since they run Null Rod. If you go the Tinker route, the Titan is rarely going to be better for you than your opponent as others have mentioned.

3) Are there cards that confuse your role? Dark Confidant is a great card, but out of theme for pure control. As a control player, you play the game at instant speed. You want to resolve your draw spells at your opponents EOT to avoid being tapped out for Sorcery-speed spells. Also, Confidant can make other decks job easier in a way you cannot control, whereas Scryings can at the worst cycle for 1.

4) Is this deck viable, or am I wanting to play something different? Fundimentally, Confidant is a clock... for yourself. When it's in a control deck, strategically the inclusion seems flawed. I could see it at home in Fish certainly, but also something else 4 Duress, Cabal Therapy, and maybe Exalted Angel (that would probably ending up being worse than Fish).

Strange that a change of four in 75 cards over two years could prove adequate but I really think it does.

Pave, I don't think you're too far off.

I can't really start posting my own lists here, sorry. It's not only rude to MaxxMatt, but I like knowing stuff is solid before someone takes my lists as recommendations.

[Pave]

@MaxxMatt

Tinker-Titan can certainly win games against 'Pitch Long, TPS and good control'.  If that's your focus then fair enough.  But Titan can lose you the game against Stax and Fish.  Both of these decks attack your mana and you aid them in this cause with Titan.  Stax needs only a Welder and Fish only a Swords or bounce (or even a lowly Stormscape Apprentice in play) to negate your threat and put you dramatically behind.  These match-ups cannot be ignored in my judgement because they are traditionally difficult for 4cc.

I added as much control elements I can choosing them ONLY among the ones that effectively DO SOMETHING when I resolve them.

Dark Confidant resembles Crucible in this respect - it demands main phase mana and does nothing immediately.  For this reason I don't play it in control.

[zeus-online]

I can't really start posting my own lists here, sorry. It's not only rude to MaxxMatt, but I like knowing stuff is solid before someone takes my lists as recommendations.

...So, that means that you're playing again? And working on 3cc/4cc/keeper again? 

Oh and i absolutely agree about just about everything you said about crucible, and how attacking the hand seems like the best plan.

/Zeus

[Ufactor]

Strange that a change of four in 75 cards over two years could prove adequate but I really think it does.

Pave, I don't think you're too far off.

I can't really start posting my own lists here, sorry. It's not only rude to MaxxMatt, but I like knowing stuff is solid before someone takes my lists as recommendations.

I hate not knowing about kinky new (old?) decks...grrr.  I would surmise that, based on Zherbus's comments, it would look something like this:

Zherbus's Disruption Suite:
1 Balance
4 Duress
1 Mind Twist
 
Cards Automatic to *Most* Control Decks
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
24 (MINIMUM) Mana Sources
 
Pave's Wish-Based approved sideboard
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 3 Extirpate
SB: 1 Gush
SB: 1 Repeal
SB: 3 Serenity
SB: 2 Swords to Plowshares
 
Cards inferred/implied from sideboard and comments
2 Cunning Wish
2 Decree of Justice
1 Fact or Fiction
2 Repeal
4 Skeletal Scrying
1 Swords to Plowshares

[zeus-online]

I'm confused...why would you want to run exalted angel? It's not really good against anything these days.

And cunning wish as a singleton really seems weird, you got to play atleast two for it to be usefull in anyway - You don't want  to design your sideboard because of 1 MD card.

/Zeus

[EKM_Ichorid]

I played against this deck the other day. I beat it playing some MonoU Shop-Control deck I've been playing with...but they were epic games.

[Ufactor]

I'm confused...why would you want to run exalted angel? It's not really good against anything these days.

And cunning wish as a singleton really seems weird, you got to play atleast two for it to be usefull in anyway - You don't want  to design your sideboard because of 1 MD card.

/Zeus

You are correct for the most part.  The post has been edited for those corrections and reading clarity.

[MaxxMatt]

@About 3c-c
I made a new thread, where can be discussed extensively about this strong deck.
Thanks to Zherbus for the help on making these two argument separate.

Tinker-Titan can certainly win games against 'Pitch Long, TPS and good control'.  If that's your focus then fair enough. 
But Titan can lose you the game against Stax and Fish.  Both of these decks attack your mana and you aid them in this cause with Titan. 

This is true only if you aggressively make use of different Duals against them since first turns.
My plan is to establish some sort of control/timegaining against Stax and Fish with Islands, Board Control and as much blue cards I can.
I reshuffle back ( if possible ) coloured bombs and off-color spells at least until I'm sure not to be screwed by opponents Wastelands' recursion or Stifles.
It isn't a simple game. It is a more gambling one and it is OF COURSE based on how broken can I be, compared to them.
Fish isn't broken ( or sort of ) by definition, first turn Confidant ( keeping it alive as much as I can)  coupled with Repeals and Drains are enough to make a decent gap.
Stax weapons can be shut down in different ways: C.Wish for gobal bouncers, Repeals on low cc permanents, Shaman on their own mana and so on.
In order to apply this pressure, I need only a single Dual land ( U.Sea for D.Conf and Volcanic for Shaman ). Their own impact on the game would help me recover from the possible subsequent land loss: Shaman will give me *free turns* eating Moxen, Chalices and LowCC.Mana while Confidant, will draw me free cards, without the need of mana and usually, I will replace the land loss from Wasteland quickly.

As much as I described those games, Titan, could seal the game as much as DSC. Otherwise, I will not use it blindly. I can Balance out things before resolving Titan or I can Tutor for other global removals AND THEN call Titan in play. Will I lose meanly more than 1 or 2 lands when Titan hit the board? The very answer is "no". Will DSC be better when resolved during the first or second turns of the games? Of course "yes". As soon as I will drop the Titan-Strip-Shaman plan, I would stop playing this deck.  Making the right amount of considerations led me to think that far more than *coloured bombs*, the very motivation about debating on 4cc is about making BOARD CONTROL stronger.

Only playing Red and Black and White you will be able to play such a game.
Cutting colors, would make this plan far less appealing.

Stax needs only a Welder and Fish only a Swords or bounce (or even a lowly Stormscape Apprentice in play) to negate your threat and put you dramatically behind.  These match-ups cannot be ignored in my judgement because they are traditionally difficult for 4cc.

These motivations have been partially answered by the previous lines.
In will not put Titan in play with an active Welder out.
For the same reason, I will not play Tinker for Titan against Fish, when they are possibly holding in hand StP and I'm not backuped by a conterspell.
With these statement in mind, you can easily realize how GOOD is Titan with a cleared board against Fish. It will KILL their own Tundra. No more Apprentice abilities, no more easy M.Mage, no more Disenchant effects and so on. Againt stax it isn't stellar, especially compared with DSC, because stax had a lot of *fat men* that can compare with him.
On the other hand, if you play the control game against Stax, sculpting your own mana base loading the board with Islands ( and maybe Volcanic for Shamans ), you will see how few the differences are, especially during middle game. Against Stax, I prefer playing Angels or Soldiers.

Dark Confidant resembles Crucible in this respect - it demands main phase mana and does nothing immediately.  For this reason I don't play it in control.

It isn't exactly the right comparization, but I appreciate the comment.
CoW isn't clearly a first turn key spell, while D.Confidant is here IN ORDER to be played during your first turn.
Both cannot be used with some utility before the susequent turn, but WHILE during your second turn D.Confidant will replace itself, fixing your mana, scultping your hand and adding spells, CoW isn't as much strong almost ANYTIME. CoW will thin your deck and establish your mana base, but ( adding it as a singleton ), will cost you a tutor or a full turn. When it is usually cast? Not before than 3 or 4 turn. When you agree on *losing* a full turn? Is it better to lose the first or the third?
You will agree with me that, for a control deck, losing the third will be deadly, while optimizing the first with a good long term one will be better for sure.

[Pave]

Hi MaxxMatt,

Thanks for your responses.  I understand your aspirations as to managing your dual lands very carefully against Fish and Stax.  It sounds like a tight rope, mind you, but good luck to you.  I suspect it will be very hard if you fall behind.

I will not put Titan in play with an active Welder out.  For the same reason, I will not play Tinker for Titan against Fish, when they are possibly holding in hand StP and I'm not backuped by a conterspell.

This makes for quite a conditional win condition and another potentially dead card.  This is a risk that you think worthwhile.  I don't, I'm afraid.

Tapping out turn 1 for Confidant is less deadly than tapping out turn 3 for Crucible.  But they are not the options.  You might also tap out turn 1 for Duress then by turn 3 end-of-turn Scry for 2.  Would you tap out turn 2 for Confidant or leave Drain mana up?  There is a choke there and a risk.