Hot Vintage Tactic: Tinker for Platinum Angel

[Smmenen]

No one has started a discussion on this yet, but perhaps its worth saying a few words about.

Vintage is often an information war.     As deck strategies phase in and out, other tactical plays become more or less powerful.   

At SCG II, my team rocked Oath putting four players into the top 8.   We intentionally built in a weakness to Platinum Angel on the theory that very few people would be using it at that cycle in the metagame.    At the next event, lots of Control Slaver players were proudly proclaiming that Tinker for Platinum Angel beats our deck.   A point we did not deny, but easily remedied with Ancient Hydra and other cards.

Right now, Vintage seems very vulnerable to Platinum Angel.   It provides an actual Tinker plan that Ichorid has no answer for.   It stymies Hulk Flash lists at the moment, regardless of their kill.   It gets in the way of lots of other plans and perhaps is as strong as it has been in some time.   

I was getting reports out of the Canadian tournamnet this weekend that even Fish decks were running Tinker/Platz.

Is Tinker for Platinum Angel a hot Vintage Tactic or just a brief speed bump? 

[Zherbus]

It ebbs and flows. It's really good at the times when noones is preparing for it, which is now. It's really bad when everyone has an immediate way to basically ignore it. The trick is timing the use of this tactic, IMHO.

[jakjakman]

I can't see how it would pose any more of a problem to a combo type deck than Medaling Mage, Null Rod, Trinisphere, or Chalice (to a lesser degree) would.  In my mind those are cards that need to be bounced before the combo player can start working; being an artifact it's vulnerable to the mass artifact bounce as well as single target bounce.  Fish also has Swords and Echoing Truth.  Seems like it would be great against Ichorid because Ichorid's hate is geared at removing enchantments like Layline of the Void.  Hulk decks run a bit of bounce don't they?

[LotusHead]

Right now, Vintage seems very vulnerable to Platinum Angel.   It provides an actual Tinker plan that Ichorid has no answer for.   It stymies Hulk Flash lists at the moment, regardless of their kill.   It gets in the way of lots of other plans and perhaps is as strong as it has been in some time.   

I was getting reports out of the Canadian tournamnet this weekend that even Fish decks were running Tinker/Platz.

Is Tinker for Platinum Angel a hot Vintage Tactic or just a brief speed bump? 

I noticed Platz new worth at the last Eudo Tourney and it got moved into my MWS version immediately.  Sure, everything in shop aggro can get bounced, but we may get a few mainphases before we die.

[Korhil]

It's powerful vs Rich Shay's Ichorid list, so if that indeed becomes the standard build, then Tinker - Platinum Angel is a very valid tactic.
Perhaps people need to start boarding the Platinum Angel to force Ichorid to board CoV + Blue sources again, thus meaning they can't have space for Contagion vs Jailer. Something will have to give.

It may steal a game vs Flash. I suspect that if you can resolve Tinker vs Flash, you could often more simply get Jar and instead win yourself.

---Korhil

[dicemanx]

I was getting reports out of the Canadian tournamnet this weekend that even Fish decks were running Tinker/Platz.

There were indeed a number of Tinker/Platz decks. The most amusing incident involving the card came in a match between a Tinker/Platz deck versus Ichorid. In a post SB game, Platinum Angel hit play leaving the Ichorid player in a quandry because he wasn't running Chain of Vapor. The player with the Angel in play started swinging; when the opponent fell to 4 life, the victory seemed in the bag, except...the Ichorid player drew Emerald Charm...

[Pave]

Decks can often find one answer, but can they find two.  Platz can be well paired with another must-answer (Chalice, say).  And even if reduced to a 'speed bump', she can still buy crucial time.  As a stand-alone strategy, though, Collosus is superior in my experience.

[Kowal]

It's powerful vs Rich Shay's Ichorid list, so if that indeed becomes the standard build, then Tinker - Platinum Angel is a very valid tactic.
Perhaps people need to start boarding the Platinum Angel to force Ichorid to board CoV + Blue sources again, thus meaning they can't have space for Contagion vs Jailer. Something will have to give.

I wasn't going to say anything, but it's actually really, really easy for Ichorid to just maindeck an Ancient Grudge.  When you go off, you can usually dredge the entire deck anyway.  And given Angel is a five turn clock, if you can't dredge the whole thing, you're a failure at life.  Even if you have no green source and are just dredging without drawing, you can follow this sequence of plays:

Dredge a bunch of cards.  Dread Return up a Dryad Arbor.  Go about your merry way making zombies as normal, and Dread Return up a Flame-Kin Zealot to make them hasty and lethal.  Swing in to bring them down to zero or less.  Therapy the shit out of them, and then flashback the Ancient Grudge (off your hasted 2/2 forest) and remove the Angel at your leisure.

[wethepeople]

I was getting reports out of the Canadian tournamnet this weekend that even Fish decks were running Tinker/Platz.

There were indeed a number of Tinker/Platz decks. The most amusing incident involving the card came in a match between a Tinker/Platz deck versus Ichorid. In a post SB game, Platinum Angel hit play leaving the Ichorid player in a quandry because he wasn't running Chain of Vapor. The player with the Angel in play started swinging; when the opponent fell to 4 life, the victory seemed in the bag, except...the Ichorid player drew Emerald Charm...

And what did Emerald Charm do?

[Skadrian]

I guess the player with angel attacked, it lost flying and got blocked to death

[Methuselahn]

Rector Flash decks can always shoot down platz with Form of the Dragon once it establishes control.

[Zherbus]

I wasn't going to say anything, but it's actually really, really easy for Ichorid to just maindeck an Ancient Grudge.

That's just it. There's the ebb and flow I was talking about. It's easy to deal with, but there's always these times when the tide is right for the Platinum Angel plan. Next weekend? Maybe not so much.

[Harlequin]

I was getting reports out of the Canadian tournamnet this weekend that even Fish decks were running Tinker/Platz.

There were indeed a number of Tinker/Platz decks. The most amusing incident involving the card came in a match between a Tinker/Platz deck versus Ichorid. In a post SB game, Platinum Angel hit play leaving the Ichorid player in a quandry because he wasn't running Chain of Vapor. The player with the Angel in play started swinging; when the opponent fell to 4 life, the victory seemed in the bag, except...the Ichorid player drew Emerald Charm...

And what did Emerald Charm do?

Is there anything Emerald Charm can't do? 

[jakjakman]

I was getting reports out of the Canadian tournamnet this weekend that even Fish decks were running Tinker/Platz.

There were indeed a number of Tinker/Platz decks. The most amusing incident involving the card came in a match between a Tinker/Platz deck versus Ichorid. In a post SB game, Platinum Angel hit play leaving the Ichorid player in a quandry because he wasn't running Chain of Vapor. The player with the Angel in play started swinging; when the opponent fell to 4 life, the victory seemed in the bag, except...the Ichorid player drew Emerald Charm...

And what did Emerald Charm do?

Emerald Charm is the biggest attack hoser ever.  I hate it. >:^(  He attacked with platz, emerald charm takes away her flying, and the zombies eat her brains.

[Aardshark]

And what did Emerald Charm do?

Is there anything Emerald Charm can't do? 

Emerald Charm   
Cost: G
Rules Text (Oracle):  Choose one - Untap target permanent; or destroy target non-Aura enchantment; or target creature loses flying until end of turn. 

@ wethepeople:
I wasn't there, but I'm guessing emerald charm made the angel lose flying, allowing the ichorid player to block and kill what would otherwise have been an unremovable threat.

[The Atog Lord]

Hello from the Nantucket Atheneum.

I don't think Platinum Angel is any good right now. In fact, I did believe it to be good, and took her to Myriad Games this past weekend. Against Travis, in Game Three of our match, I had her out. Travis managed to dredge into Ancient Grudge, and resolved it using Cabal Therapy to destroy her. She is great in theory, but Ichorid lists are going to be playing Grudge at least in the sideboard now. I think that Ancient Grudge should be in Ichorid, and would include it somewhere if I build the deck again.

Likewise, while Platinum Angel does stop Hulk Flash from going off until a Chain of Vapor is found, there are other cards which do so without costing seven mana. Against the Rector Flash builds, she isn't all that great because they can just draw into a bounce spell.

[God_Campbell]

The player with platinum angle out was what made the who scene hiliarious.

He had seen the Emerald charms in the players graveyard, and as such once the ichorid player cast it, he started to flip out. I know it was so funny I fell off my chair in laughter, and the ichy player had him sign the emerald charm with what I believe was "Fuck this stupid piece of shit and fuck the french and their stupid tech"

[HuntedWumpus]

I changed my Win condition in 3CC from Tinker/DSC and Decree to Tinker/Plat and Decree.

I has been an improvement for sure. Yes, sometimes it is just a speed bump, but for control that may be all you need. In fact often... that may be all you need.