Utah Jazz : Ilusionary Mask

[beder]

Hi,

First post on this web site from France (sorry for my really non perfect english)

I just would like to share with you this deck i am testing on MWS, that could of course need improvement and which is based on 3 cards :

- illusionnary mask (the coach)
- phyrexian dreadnought (Karl Malone)
- voidmage apprentice (John Stockton)

// Deck
    1 Swamp
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Island
    4 Underground Sea
    1 Tolarian Academy
    1 Strip Mine
    3 Wasteland

    5 moxes
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Mana Crypt

    4 Illusionary Mask
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    3 Voidmage Apprentice

    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Time Walk
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
   
    4 Force of Will
    4 Duress   

    2 Stifle
    1 Echoing Truth

    4 Brainstorm
    2 Impulse
    2 Merchant Scroll
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Vampiric Tutor

// Sideboard
SB: 2  Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 2  Darkblast
SB: 4  Leyline of the Void
SB: 3  Massacre
2 slots left???

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Two main ideas that directed the build of this deck :
- more and more decks uses bounce to deal with huge creatures, because creatures that are played are difficult to hardcast. So bounce is nearly as efficient as removal
- more and more decks have a plan that includes a key card (yawgmoth... flash...) : if successfully played, it is GG. So this card is over protected, with disruption made of counterspell or discard

This deck intend to address those two issues :
- if illusionary is on the board, putting back dreadnought on the board after a bounce is not really difficult
- when voidmage is put on board thanks to illusionary, then you have the power to say "no is really no", without even paying one blue mana. Just unflip it. You don't care about opponents counter or discard. Therefore, there is still the stifle or bounce threat that has to be care of

The kill of this deck is clearly phyrexian.

The mana base is made of few lands – 17 – and the typical artefact accelerators.

To manipulate your deck and find the needed cards: brainstorms x4, impulse x2, merchant scroll x2 (note that all the instants of this deck are blue), demonic and vampiric.

Basic disruption is made of waste, fow and duress (of course stifle can also be used regularly, to slow your opponent down, if the illusionary already succeeded in reaching the board).

Only 3 voidmage apprentices because you really want to use it as a last minute disruption (basic disruption is used at the beginning of the game), after a few turns, when this is the time to counter to win (either countering the bounce on the phyrexian, or countering the key card of your opponent).

Here are a few interrogations I have about this deck:
-   should I remove wasteland to make the mana base solider
-   perhaps there is a lack of drawing engine : impulse/thirst for knowledge, dark confident…
-   yawgmoth will? Necessary?
-   Tinker + colossus : maindeck, sideboard, not at all??
-       The sideboard is not really optimal i think...

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Here is a quick summary of the match up for the current build :

------------------------------------------------------------------------

/// Stax  ////
The voidmages are not really useful, too many threats. But if you succeed in putting quickly on board a phyrexian, it is often GG (even if you don't have many permanents, 2 turns is really short)
The card that must be countered or duressed are :
- tangle wire (slow you down really and give enough time to stax to find a solution for your phyrexian)
- goblin welder (even if this deck doesn't discard or sacrifice any artefact so there is often no target in your graveyard for exchanging phyrexian or mask)
I would say 50/50 pre side, depending essentially of the stax build (if there is null rod and pithing needle, it may becomes really difficult)


/// Combo ///
Voidmages are huge because they really don't care about duresses or FOW. Moreover the surprise effect works really well. It is always a joy, at first game (sometimes second given that you don't always play a voidmage), when you don't have any card left in hand and just a little 0/1 face down on board, to counter the yawgmoth bargain after 3 or 4 cards played, just unflipping your voidmage...
I would say 55/45 for this deck in my testings.

/// Control ///
It really depends if they have welder or not. If so, then it is a really bad match up, because they will succeed in countering at least one artefact and then the situation will be critical. If not, then it is playable and about even.
50/50

/// GAT ///
Works pretty well against this deck :
Wasteland and strip may slow down the drawing engine if played in first turns, your creature is really big, bigger that a big dryiad or that a tog (even eating all the cards of graveyard or had), voidmage protects the huge beast really well
55/45

/// Agro ///
It depends :
UW fish is pretty hard to play, i would say 40/60. Null rod, StP and Meddling Mage are pretty awful…
Some other fish decks are easier to deal with.
I would say 40/60 pre side.

/// Ichorid ///
Guess what, first game is generally lost. But this is not a surprised. Then, mulligan expecting to find the leyline… Typical.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

But I haven’t done all the required testing.
So I am really opened to any suggestions or ideas to improve this deck. My only concern is to try to preserve the original idea, with the really big guy and the really small one, working together.

Nicolas

[kombat]

You didn't mention it, so I'm not sure if you're aware or not, but the errata on Phyrexian Dreadnought is being removed.  That means you will now have the option of hardcasting him, without the Illusionary Mask, and then Stifling his comes-into-play trigger.  So you may want to up the Stifle count in the deck to 4.

Another thing I'd suggest would be to consider employing Dark Confidant.  Dreadnought is virtually painless to flip to Dark Confidant, and when played via the Illusionary Mask, it can keep your opponent guessing as to what they're going to be dealing with.

[EnialisLiadon]

Another cool morph creature to consider is Skinthinner.  Kills just about everything but Confidant, Tog, DSC and other black utility creatures aggro decks might use (wretch, jailer, etc).  Unfortunately, it's extremely costly without Mask.  Another good creature would be Hunted Horror.  It's good with Mask, Stifle and bounce (especially Echoing Truth).

Oh, and another vote for Confidant.

[Phele]

I can just underline what kombat said.

Confidant is actually THE reason to plash black in this deck. It has so much synergies in this deck its not even funny. You can build it with an average casting cost of almost one and it's always nice to have a second potent target to sneak in under a mask against counter heavy decks

Also I agree that with the new errata I don't really see a reason to not play the full set of Stifles maindeck, as you already play some sort of manadenial and it's quite usefull in many other situations as well.

This is a list I played with much success a bit ago and can be a good starting point (and it has many of your elements as well):

http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=396&highlight=1#place1

It was already quite potent even without the Stifles and the new errata is the thing I was always wishing for, as it makes the deck even stronger. This is how I would play it in the moment.

4 Illusionary Mask
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
1 Engineered Explosives
5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
2 Mana Leak
2 Merchant Scroll
1 Echoing Truth
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

4 Dark Confidant
3 Duress
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
4 Island
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Sideboard

2 Yxlid Jailer
2 Extirpate
2 Pithing Needle
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Annul
1 Hurkyls Recall
1 Rushing River
1 Engineered Explosves
2 Seasinger

On some Choices:

Tolarian Acadamy is not necessary: Your spell costs are so minimal you don't need the extra mana boost and better want to keep your manabse pretty relieable

Mana Leak: I prefer real counters that work without mask. As much as I like mask tricks as your Voidmage one, or take Willbender for example. They are not straight enough in my eyes.

Chains of Mephistopheles: They are quite good against all sort of Gush and Bomberman decks and your deck is so redundant you can even side out some brainstorms for it.

Seasinger: You can board the even against oath in, as the only creature they don't get would be Sky Swallower and who cares about a 6/6 when you bring in 12/12 It's also good against Bomberman, Gat, Fish ..

It's just a starting list but I think the deck concept has much potential!

Other cards to think about:

Tinker: I don't thint that it's needed but it is for sure a pretty strong card even though your deck is full of Tinkers for Collossus as you can use many two card combinations to bring in a 12/12. I think Tinker would fit to one the one hand strengthen the mana denial component with Titan and the anti combo/Ichorid route with Plaz.

Trickbind: A good way to stop Flash against their counterwall and could act as another Stiffle effect for Dreadnought

Planar Void: I always liked it for its small mana cost but probably Leyline is just better even so hard to hardcast and painfull under an Confidant.

Darkblast: Could be an option if your meta is full of Welders and Xantids

Lotus Petal: Actually this is quite good to give the deck more exploviness and I like it more than Mana Crypt but probably both are not necessary as your deck is explosive enough with all this low casting cost spells.

Demonic Consultation: The deck is crying for this. I just found myself very often in the need to find Time Walk/Explosives/Rushing River and don't really like them being removed.

[mr_x]

I had a dreadnought deck that topped 4 before. Not a tier one deck, but fun. The best card to play with Illusionary Mask, besides dreadnought, is Fathom Seer. 1 to cast. It has morph by returning two islands to your hand. Put it under the mask for two. Flip it up for a two card advantage for free. The only bad thing is that you need the mask. And the best thing is your opponent will probably try to kill it thinking you may have played a dreadnought. Sneaky tricks FTW.

[Cane1024]

Why not 4 trinket mages to grab naughts and 4 scrolls to grab stifles

[Spacebalzz]

I've been playing this deck on MWS quite a bit recently and love playing it.  Since the new Dreadnought un-errata, I've really not had a chance to test, but this is what I think I would play.  The core of the deck began with Phillip Stirm's "Dark Illusions" linked above.  Some specific card selections are noted.

//MaskNought

// Land
        4 Polluted Delta
        4 Underground Sea
        3 Island
        3 Wasteland
        1 Strip Mine
        1 Swamp
        1 Flooded Strand
// Mana Accel
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Mox Ruby       
        1 Mox Pearl   (I'm thinking about cutting an off-color Mox for Lotus Petal, just to up the chance of the T1 Dreadnought)
        1 Mox Jet         
        1 Mox Sapphire
// Artifacts
        1 Sensei's Divining Top  (I love this card and it always does me right.  Great with Confidant too.)
// Black
        4 Dark Confidant
        3 Duress (only 3 now--was 4--however, I found it somewhat sub-par)
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        1 Demonic Consultation (I actually feel this could be dropped--you have so much draw, finding what you need is rarely a
        1 Demonic Tutor                                      problem)
// Blue
        4 Brainstorm
        4 Force of Will
        4 Stifle (With the new errata, you can't afford to run less than a full set.  Plus, with 4 strip effects, this can help you play
        3 Mana Leak (I love this card, wish I had room for 4)             the mana denial game as well)
        1 Ancestral Recall
        1 Time Walk
        1 Rushing River (I like River here, but CoV and ET work well too)
// MaskNought
        4 Illusionary Mask
        4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

// Sideboard
        3 Massacre (Lots of UW Fish in my Meta, this does a number on 'em)
        4 Leyline of the Void
        2 Extipate (Valuable in lots of matches; however it goes in mostly against Flash for me)
        2 Hurkyll's Recall (This is my answer to Stax, though EFlux might work now since Mask isn't your only win condition)
        2 Diabolic Edict (Non-targetable removal is always good)
        1 Chain of Vapor (Again, this could be Echoing Truth or RR)

Note:  I don't run Merchant Scrolls.  I don't like them.  I find that they generally tap out mana killing your Leaks, and while they do find Stifle for your Dreadnought, you most likely won't be able to counter Flash, Duress, or some other gross disruption spell next turn.

Anyway, just my thoughts on the matter,

-Matt

[beder]

First, thanks for your replies.

First a question : where can i find an official information about the "errata removal"?

Then, a few thougths about your replies.

When it comes to using 4 stifle, i only used 2 because i think i already have enough card to put dreadnought on board. This deck is not intended to be a real combo deck but a combo-control. And the point is that it is really based on both phyrexian and voidmage apprentice (that cannot be played with stifle).
But i will perhaps try it...

I am also thinking in replacing stifle by trickbind, which slow the playing of dreadnought but prevents the counter on stifle that makes you loose 2 cards for nothing and allows a nice trick :
- play phyrexian and ask "do you counter?"
the opponent now faces a strange situation : "either i counter a card that is useless right now, if there is no trickbinb after, or i won't be able to counter later"...

Then, i would agree with the "tolarian academy perhaps not necessary". And i tried to remove it sometimes... The point is that it has been quite useless many time, in order to be able to cast several spell like impulse or brainstorm in a single turn to find an interesting card... I still didn't make my mind when it comes to this card....

For dark confident, i tried them. I found it a little bit slow, but i have to try it again in this deck. But right now, i really don't know what to remove....

[beder]

Seasinger: You can board the even against oath in, as the only creature they don't get would be Sky Swallower and who cares about a 6/6 when you bring in 12/12 It's also good against Bomberman, Gat, Fish ..

To deal with decks with painfull creature, i thought about using Gildred Drake : this is a very versatile and interesting solution in this deck, given that you have often the possibility to choose between the  3/3 flying for 2 or the exhange with the bigger creature of opponent

Lotus Petal: Actually this is quite good to give the deck more exploviness and I like it more than Mana Crypt but probably both are not necessary as your deck is explosive enough with all this low casting cost spells.

I agree with, you, the 2 are not necessary. I definitely prefer mana crypt that allows turn one mask+dreadnought or turn 2 mask + voidmage
I even think in removing 1 land to play only with 16, but in that case i would remove the waste and strip for island and swamp.

Demonic Consultation: The deck is crying for this. I just found myself very often in the need to find Time Walk/Explosives/Rushing River and don't really like them being removed.

That's right. I thought about it yesterday, i think it can be a really powerfull card in this deck. Only pb : echoing truth, i cannot let it be removed given that it is my only solution to solve a board issue. Finally the same concern as your "Explosives/Rushink River"

[beder]

New version, some modifications, the deck works quite well, the modifications are explained directly in the deck list.

As a summary : Less mana disruption, less tutor (not such a bad thing considering that the deck is quite recursive and the "aven mindcensor emergence") but more control, draw and a solid mana base

// Deck   
---------(- 3 Waste - 1 Strip   / +1 Riptide +1 Swamp +1 Island)
    3 Swamp
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Island
    3 Underground Sea
    1 Tolarian Academy
    1 Riptide Laboratory (i came back to this idea, was in the original deck, very usefull when confidant is too painfull and nearly a lock when on board with voidmage and illusionary)

    5 moxes
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Mana Crypt

    4 Illusionary Mask
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    3 Voidmage Apprentice

    3 Dark confident 
---------(I came back to this idea that I used when started to build the deck. It is effectively better, instead of a land and the 2 merchant)
First, as everyone knows it is a nice draw engine. Then, there is a second interest because it can also make you win one turn : it can attack once before phyrexian, and also during the turn with phyrexian. With fetch land or other painfull cards used by your opponent, sometimes it makes you win one turn sooner)

    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Time Walk
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
   
    4 Force of Will
    4 Duress   

    2 Trickbind 
--------- (- 2 Stifle
         i prefer being sure that phyrexian will be on board or that opponent will have to counter phyrexian without knowing if the second needed card is in your hand
         + is really better when it comes to try to stop a storm protected by no duress but a fow
         the second mana needed is less ennuying given that i dropped the "mana disruption strategy" for a "more control" style)
   
    1 Echoing Truth (usefull also on your own voidmage that have already been used -understand unflip)
    1 Rushing river  (thanks Phele for the idea)
----------(so usefull when it comes to deal with needle+null rod,
           or to bounce at end of opponent's turn a card on his board and at the same time your voidmage that has already been used in order to be sure that the hated card won't come back on the board at his next turn)

    4 Brainstorm
    2 Impulse
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Vampiric Tutor

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

It works pretty well and the more i use voidmage prodigy, the more i am convinced this is really the second key card of this deck.
I can't count the number of games i won against combo, playing a draw7/thinker/yawgmoth xxx, after a duress or with multiple counters in hand.  Just unflipping the voidmage is a gg.
Against flash, it is also really usefull, don't even start the counter war.

And last but not least, here is a very typical scenario i faced several times.
Phyrexian has been put on board with mask, still face down, for instance with 2 counters. Opponent never uses his bounce or StP at the turn you put it on board, prefer to wait and use them as instants to be sure what is really the face down card. Morevoer, he cannot use its instant artifact destruction cards given that this is not already an artifact.
That's your next turn, before attacking, use all the cards available to search for an apprentice and put it on play - again, if the pyrexian was put on board with 2 counters, the opponent is not going to respond to the mask ability by a sword or bounce on the "hided" phyrexian. Now your phyrexian is ready to show is face and attack, nicely protected by its little friend.
It seems pretty heavy to do but in real game, i can assure that it happens really often (especially with low CC cards to find your apprentice and put it in play the same turn, like brainstorm or impulse).

Finally, this is the original idea of this deck, "Utah Jazz", the smallest one "stockton" playing with the biggest one "malone". And i like this image, find it quite fun, so i won't give it up

Sometimes you play it as a control deck, sometimes as a pure brutal combo deck, most of the times it is a pretty good mix.

[kombat]

First a question : where can i find an official information about the "errata removal"?

It was posted on Wizards' website a few days ago.

I am also thinking in replacing stifle by trickbind, which slow the playing of dreadnought but prevents the counter on stifle that makes you loose 2 cards for nothing and allows a nice trick :
- play phyrexian and ask "do you counter?"
the opponent now faces a strange situation : "either i counter a card that is useless right now, if there is no trickbinb after, or i won't be able to counter later"...

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, or if it is legal.  Under the new ruling for Dreadnought, here's how it would go: You play Dreadnought.  His triggered ability goes on the stack.  You seem to be saying you'd pass priority at this point, and if the opponent chooses to counter him, you get to save your Stifle.  If he doesn't counter him, then you Stifle the triggered ability.

But this doesn't work.  Once you've played Dreadnought and passed priority, you've forfeited your right to Stifle his triggered ability, unless your opponent chooses to add more effects to the stack.  If he declines, then Dreadnought's triggered ability resolves, without you having an opportunity to Stifle it.  You would then have to choose between either sacrificing creatures with a total power of 12, or sacrificing the Dreadnought.  Stifling at this point is not an option.

This is why I suggested running a full complement of Stifles.  You need 1 Stifle for each attempted hardcast Dreadnought.  For Dreadnoughts that you sneak in under the mask, you can use the corresponding Stifle on a fetchland or something, to keep your opponent off mana.

If I'm misunderstanding what you meant, please correct me.

EDIT: Also, Trickbind is overrated, in my opinion.  Stifle's primary attractiveness is to stop a Storm trigger when a combo deck is comboing out on you.  However, most Tendrils-based combo decks will almost always Duress you before they attempt the lethal Tendrils.  In this case, Trickbind is no more effective than Stifle.  And in all other instances (Stifling fetchlands, Wastelands, Oath triggers, whatever), the opponent likely isn't going to bother wasting a counterspell on it anyway, so it becomes merely a twice-as-expensive Stifle.

[Harlequin]

No, what he's saying is that lets assume you are my opponent and have 1 counterspell. 

If all I have in my deck is stifle, then you can 2-for-1 me.  Heres how:  I play Dreadnaught and pass priority, you allow it to resolve.  Now the trigger goes on the stack, and I cast stifle and pass priority.  You counter stifle, and I loose the stifle and the dreadnaught.

Now consider the same situation, but were I have trickbind.  I play Dreadnaught, it is on the stack, and no CIP triggers are on the stack yet.  You say "I'll save my counter for stifle, sure Dreadnaught resolves."    Now Dreadnaught is in play, and his CIP trigger is on the stack, and I trickbind it.  Now you cannot counter it, and you also cannot counter dreadnaught either.  If you countered Dreadnaught with your CS, then I get to keep my trickbind in hand - and you only get a 1-for-1.

[beder]

Nice explication, i was trying to write it at the same moment
And of course, once this trick has been played once, your opponent is warned, so when you have 2 phyrexians in hand, it may be interesting to try to play 1 even if you don't have trickbind in hand, just to make him really think about using a counter against that illusion.
For instance, if you have mask and 2 phyrexians in hand, playing agains a control deck, really suspecting your opponent to have a fow or mana drain, it may be a nice play to play the first pyrexian before the mask to divert counters from the mask itself. I rather have "quite surely 1 mask and 1 dreadnought on board" than "possibly 1 mask and 2 dreadnoughts but probably 2 dreadnought in hand"....

[justaguy]

I have enjoyed Masknought in in the past, but the one thing that got too me was how narrow a function Mask actually served.  It only was there to supplement 8 or so cards. 

Call me crazy, but given the idea that Mask is a really swingy card in terms of usefullness I think that Street Wraith could potentially take a couple spaces in the list.  Street Wraith simultaneously adds another chance to use a Mask or find a Mask.  I haven't tested this idea; please tell me if I am overlooking some obvious reason not to try this.

p.s. People in France pay attention to American basketball? 

[beder]

Of course we pay attention to NBA, our championship is a little bit less interesting

When it comes to stree wraith, i tried it but stopped because of 2 main reasons :
- it becomes really very difficult to choose when to mulligan, and with this deck it may be quite important
- it is pretty painfull, especially when you are also using dark confidant, mana crypt and fetch lands. Many people say "T1 deck doesn't care about life point" : i would say it is true if you are using a real combo deck but in that case, you care about your life point...

[justaguy]

Oh, I missed the part where you adopted Confidants!  But I understand this concern; I suppose the two cannot really coexist because recently the life total has started to really matter (I just might get good a doing combat math yet). 

I know mulligans are important, indeed.  Would Serum Powder be appropriate, then?  I am thinking "no" but am curious to hear of your opinion.  While this deck is redundant I think that I always liked to have the right cards rather than more cards.  I guess that also brings up Imperial Seal (which was not legal when I played Masknought)...

Thoughts?

[HollyWood]

I know this deck is drastically different. But with it being a mask deck I figured I would get some feed back and maybe inspire some changes. This list is not tested. So being this deck is just theory point out its weakness and its strong points. I think the chains need to be main deck but I can'tdecide if they are better than crucibles.
MASK

61 Card Main Deck

11 Instants
4 Dark Ritual
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Stifle
2 Echoing Truth

10 Sorcery's
4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Time Walk

5 Enchantments
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Chains of Mephistopheles

8 Creatures
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Dark Confidant

11 Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
4 Illusionary Mask
2 Crucible of Worlds

16 Land
4 Underground Sea
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
1 Island
1 Swamp

15 Side Board
3 Massacre
2 Pithing Needle
2 Yixlid Jailer
2 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Chalice Of The Void
3 Chains of Mephistopheles

[Methuselahn]

SEVERAL months ago I tinkered with Mask Nought and started a thread on my team forums regarding this archetype.  It's a bit dated now, but I think it retains some important points still.  The concept was trashed, but I thought since everyone was dropping lists, I'd c/p it here and maybe somebody could get some ideas from it.  I've edited out a huge section regarding matchups because, well, this was designed before the braintrust at WotC decided to puke all over the format.

/////////////////////////

Shop! Nought.

For Mask combo to work, you have to be able to dodge the hate in the environment. This is inherently hard to do considering that cards such as Null Rod and Goblin Welder exist. So, we have find a hole in the shifting metagame where such cards aren't trendy. I believe that 'hole' exists today. To validate this thread, assume this is true. For me, this is true. Hopefully it is for you. Right now, Control Slaver and Null Rod Fish decks are at an all time low. CS players have picked up Gifts and Long. Many Null Rod fish players have taken up The SS, a deck that doesn't want Null Rod. Ichorid exists and this combo races it. Stax and all of it's artifact hate isn't played that much. These truths lead to an environment that is hospitable for MaskNought.

Further, there's been numerous sets released since Mask's heyday that offer new tools to strengthen it's game. New tech, a hole in the metagame, and surprise is what is needed to win games with this tier 2 strategy.

If we can accept that MaskNought combo, in any form, may be viable, then which archetype do we play it in? The combo is slower than the storm decks. The deck needs to run enough disruption to keep faster combo busy, so it can win. This is absolutely paramount.

Traditional mono-black ritual Mask-Nought is just a powered suicide deck, and just doesn't look like a good idea. Some counter based Mask decks tend to end up looking like a fish skeleton with the combo shoved in there. This is likely to be strictly inferior to today's popular UW fish decks. These 'fish' style Mask decks were rarely seen outside of the Canadian magic scene. Paul Shriar (bebe on tmd) was behind most of this work. Often, these aggro-control type Mask decks also ran a sideboard transformation into Oath, which shored up the fish matchup well. I'm not sure this is the way to go. Full English Breakfast and Volrath Shapeshifters should be re-examined, but that deck is probably more fragile now than when it was when Shane Stoots took it to 2nd place at Gencon. Also, FEB relies on the graveyard. This is important to note and something I'd like to avoid with any new Mask deck as you're setting yourself up to run into splash hate directed at Ichorid and Gifts.

Any blue based MaskNought deck with Team FoW is likely to be slower than either Gifts or Pitch Long. I can't see Mask competing with other decks as a FoW deck. Besides it being slower, you lose any surprise value because you become just another mediocre, easily hated, blue deck.

So then we have the Stax archetype. So far, a Workshop based build seems to have the most promise. Workshop decks allow MaskNought the most amount of turn 1 plays. The list I've been using keeps this goal of having several turn 1 options available, and not just at 1 casting cost. A U/B Workshop based deck avoids the graveyard as a resource. This is very important to dodging popular hate.

The list below is very close to what I've been testing recently. This includes the last two TRIs. The last TRI, I faced Rich in the finals with Dry Slaver, and lost in 3 games. The other, I scooped in the finals because the tournament was dead in the water.

// Lands
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
3 Polluted Delta
1 Academy Ruins

// Creatures
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Dark Confidant
1 Razormane Masticore

// Spells
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
4 Illusionary Mask
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trinisphere
1 Pithing Needle
1 Darkblast
1 Echoing Truth
1 Repeal
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Duress
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Memory Jar

The disruption package:

Mishra's Workshop and friends. Spheres are better here than in your typical Stax list. The reason for this, I believe, is that because the deck offers a much faster clock with Mask combo than with any other conventional Stax kill. Spheres are just enough to maintain a tempo advantage here where versus 5cStax, you more likely to just have to wait an extra turn to drop a fetch for an island, turning into some end-of-turn mass bounce spell. Maybe I'm way off here, but this is usually done much more easily facing stax lockies than it is facing an impending 12 points worth of damage.

Duress is still good. And necessary. With Stax, you want to stop your opponent from playing spells. With Mask, you only want to eliminate the ones that interfere with your agenda. Duress gives you the proactive protection you need while letting you see your opponent's hand. Coupled with Spheres, it's often enough to stymie storm combo decks long enough to race them.

Crucible of Worlds is not just in there for disruption, it's in there to stay on top of the fish matchup. This is a must resolve for you and a must counter for any fish strategy. I guess I could go on about the obvious things Crucible does, but I wanted to emphasize here that the deck does have problems with UW fish decks, especially pre-board. Crucible helps alleviate this problem as well as providing standard waste effects.

There are a few singleton slots in the list above and I've tried to fill them with solutions to Mask's biggest threats. They are:

Pithing Needle. In there for Stax/CS wielding Goblin Welders. Sure, I probably wouldn't suggest this deck as a great option for a meta full of Stax and/or Control Slaver, but they're invaluable against many cards. Cards such as Bazaar, EE, stax creatures, Salvagers, as well as sb tech cards from Seal of Cleansing to Pernicious Deed type cards all hose the Mask strategy and are stopped by Needle. Back in the Vintage Stone Age, Illusionary Mask combo could've definitely used Needles. My own meta features multiple Salvagers and Ichorid. Needles have been priceless here.

Darkblast. Dark Confidant and Goblin Welder are huge threats. They're also great cards. Kataki can be annoying too. In a pinch, and if you are lucky, you can take out */2 guys as well. One, and only one Darkblast is necessary. Like Needle, it would've been a huge weapon back in the day, taking out a whole slew of Goblin Welders.

Bounce spells have improved dramatically since Masks were worth something. Repeal and Echoing Truth have proven themselves as decent hate removal as well as providing temporary tempo boosts. I think some are necessary. Two to three slots are probably optimal game 1.

Ancient Ruins. I have to admit, I just started testing this one. The deck I've been using doesn't run red magic, and so doesn't have access to Welder for recursion (not that it could recur 'Noughts anyway). Blue provides bounce, which seems to be just as good as artifact destroying red spells anyway. You really only need to bounce hate and then use mask once to get a big guy down.

Originally, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth was added to support larger black spells like Grim Tutor and other double black spells. As I played the deck more, I'd find that Grims would just sit in my hand once a Sphere was down. Like my very first iterations, the deck runs multiple 1cc and 2cc spells. This is the cap for colored spells, anything more than two is unwieldy. The Tomb could easily be cut for a swamp, fetch, or a sea. It should be noted that many times you want Urborg in there because Turn 1 Shop-Mask followed by turn 2 land-Bob is often only possible with the Tomb.


Other cards which may or may not have seen testing:

Echoing Truth. This card is so good. Not only does it bounce garbage like Null Rod at the end of turn, but it trumps current sideboarding tactics. On more than one occasion I've revealed to my opponent that I was playing Stax parts like Spheres, Wastes, Shops, etc. In turn, they side in ETW. ET is perfect here.

Mana Crypt. Crypt appears to be an auto-include, but in conjunction with Bob, who are integral to the deck when you don't have the combo up and running, it can be too dangerous. I didn't omit this card accidentally, though the omission may be wrong.

Razormane Masticore. The modern day Morphling in Mask? This slot is the safety net card. When things go bad, you can sometimes rely on this guy. Bobs offer some synergy by letting you still draw every turn, but I'm not sure this is the right card for this slot. It HAS won it's share of games versus fish decks. Those decks where the reason I chose Masty in the first place.

Tinker/DSC. I tested this tandem briefly as it's been useful versus fish strategies before. But alas, with no counterspells, Tinker for DSC is bad and unreliable. Yea, Tinker for Jar or Mask is possible, but just doesn't seem worth it. Besides the fact that Bob randomly flips over Colossus, there's no way to get him out of your hand other than tapping for eleven or more mana.

Sensei's Divining Top. Seems real good. I'm not sure the deck wants this card more than solutions to problematic cards, but it does fit perfectly as a complement to Bob as well as fitting the mana curve perfectly. It's an artifact card that searches. In theory, this should be great for an artifact based combo deck, right?

Memory Jar. Other than the fact that it's a busted artifact and the obvious synergy between it and being able to cast it with Shops, there really isn't any other reason to play it. Could it be cut? Probably, but it fits so well and sometimes, it's easily the best tutor target available.

Red Spells. As I mentioned before, one of the most important fundamental questions to ask is what color to play. I've forsaken Red Magic for Blue. It's a tough call. Red gives us permanent artifact removal as well as Red Elemental Blast. Blue offers bounce, AR, and Time Walk. As of now, I still believe that Blue magic is the way to go. The blue spells that are used with MaskNought provide Ancestral, hate removal and the best Time Walk-esque effects.

Draw Spells. Night's Whisper is probably the best supplemental draw engine, but it's not practical. The life loss wasn't bad, but in my testing, when they had briefly replaced the tutors, they made for a less consistent 2 card combo deck. Thirst for Knowledge is probably ideal for a MaskNought deck that expects no resistance. Three mana for a colored spell, with the possibility of having to pay for sphere too, is just unacceptable. TfK and anything else at three mana is going to be too expensive.

White and Green splashes. I'm not sure either of these colors offer more than what Red or Blue has to offer.

Some advice on playing this deck:

Don't be afraid to bait with Masks on turn 1, even if you're already holding a Nought to go with it. Part of the strength of any MaskNought combo deck today relies on your opponent not being familiar with the matchup. Many folks will instinctively Force a Mask on sight. This is okay though, seeing as how it's the only card in the deck that you want a single copy of, ideally. Forcing these Masks, leaves them open to Sphere and Bob, the real workhorses of the deck. With Bob and tutors in the deck, you're more than likely to find a replacement Mask if you've already resolved Bob or disruption.

It may seem obvious, but you really don't want to play tutors until you resolve Illusionary Mask. Tutoring for Mask because you are holding a Nought may sometimes be fine, but you don't want to invest a Vampiric into fetching Mask with a Phyrexian in hand, and then end up losing the Mask, resulting in a backbreaking amount of dead cards/lost tempo.

Mulligan aggressively. You really need a decent Turn 1 play, just like with any other Shop deck. This sounds like advice for nearly every Vintage deck, but it holds true here just as well.

The list above almost single-mindedly tries to play a 2cc spell on turn 1. With a regular land and Mox, you can still play Mask, Sphere, Bob, Duress – basically, most of your deck. Workshop/Mox gets even better. For example;
Mask, Mask. (where the first gets countered)
Mask, Sphere.
Mask, Nought.
Crucible, Needle
Crucible/Mask/Sphere, Sensei's Top.


Some Stats

The Curve.
0cc 6
1cc 12 (+4 Noughts)
2cc 15
3cc 3
4cc 0
5cc 2

Black mana sources: 10. 10 black sources is cutting it close. I wish I could find a way to squeeze in one more. Academy Ruins could be cut, of course, but do I want to cut Wastelands for Black mana too? I'm not sure.

This deck would be an extremely hard sell to the public, if only because of the cost. At one time, I even included Grim Tutors as well, imagine that! It uses full power as well as a set of Shops and Masks. Not very easy to obtain for most, even in 15 proxy. Oh well. At any rate, this deck packs huge surprise and fun factors.

Thoughts anyone?

///////

I'd assume that any up to date version would include Stifle effects, which seem to have quite a bit of synergy with Spheres, Wastes, etc.    This list + Stifles is probably where I would start today.

[Spacebalzz]

Just since we're all talking about MaskNought and putting forth ideas, has anyone thought about playing UR MoonMask?  Obviously, what I mean here is using 6 or so Blood Moon effects in MaskNought compounded with REB's.  It seems like this could be quite potent.

Just some thoughts,

-Matt

[Phele]

I like the idea of adding Workshops and the presented deck also seems pretty strong, but I think it takes the deck to a different kind of direction. While the Workshop versions probably (I havent tested it) plays out like Workshop Aggro the UB one most of the times feels like playing Sullivan Sollution with a stronger beat but no softlock pieces  like Erayo and Cutpurse even though they could be included by a few modifications.

After a bunch of testgames I came to a few possible modifications of my last list:

- 1 Island
+ 1 Daze/1 Lotus Petal

I'm still not sure on this move. I want to give the deck even more explosiveness, what the extra mana boost of Petal could give. But I also like one Daze, as I like to have it as a Merchan Scroll Target.

- 1 Illusionary Mask
+ 1 Trickbind/1 Tinker

I'm also not sure on this  move. Mask can sometimes be just a dead draw. On the other side: A resolved Mask can be pretty strong against counter heavy decks or against Workshop decks. Trickbind can be scrolled up and has more utitlity uses than Mask. But five Stifle effects seem a bit too much, especially when you consider that Stifle + Dreadnought is nice as an alternative move but for sure is the worse move thant Mask + Dreadnought. Tinker could work in this slot as well as you also can add other tools in the maindeck and the sideboard (Sundering for example). You could also Tinker in Dreadnought with a Stifle in hand but this seems a pretty weak from the card advantage side.

Acadamy Ruins: I also like this card, but this would take the deck in a totally different direction. You could build an even more constrolish build with a few Trinkets and also Tormods Crypt maindeck. Acadamy + Crypt/Explosives/Mask/Dreadnought can be a strong combination but is probably just to slow.

[Roat17]

After looking at the initial post, in order to better suite my playstyle, I would most likely add Tinker to that list, along with a DSC as apparently everyone has forgotten about this guy.  I would also throw in some Thirsts, 3 seems appropriate for a deck such as this.  Also I believe Confidant is a must.  When you have such a low CC deck and such solid finishers as Dreadnought and Colossus(if you add him), the life loss won't matter a bit. 
Recently, I was playtesting a game and I duressed an opponent, and took their counter.  Next turn, I went for Ancestral.  Call it a play error if you will, but at the time there was method to my madness.  My ancestral was Mis-D'ed, but I had a confidant on the board, and he stayed on the board the entire game.  I won that game despite that ancestral misdirection solely off confidants ability, and I was playing against GAT.  Confidant is huge. 
Finally, I would add in Chalices in, as Chalice at two hoops everyone almost, but you can still Tinker into a Mask or DSC.  Plus it pitches to thirst and ties in with your mana denial.

[beder]

Thanks for all your replies and ideas.

Here is the latest “Utah Jazz” build I use right now with a few questions I still have and some reflexions about the different match ups (again, sorry for my English that still needs some improvements, perhaps as this deck )

// Manabase   

4 Polluted Delta   
1 Bloodstained Mine
2 Swamp   
4 Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Riptide Laboratory
(16 lands)

// Mana accelerators 
 5 Moxes
 1 Black Lotus
 1 Sol Ring
 1 Mana Crypt

// Base of the deck
 4 Illusionary Mask
 4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
 3 Voidmage Apprentice

// No comment
 1 Ancestral Recall
 1 Time Walk
   
// Basic disruption (note that Voidmage Apprentice is also part of the disruption pack)
 4 Force of Will
 4 Duress   

// Utility
2 Trickbind 
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rushing river 

// Tutors and card searcher
4 Brainstorm
2 Impulse
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation

// Two cards to be added  (right now those are 2 merchants scrolls but I am still not 100% convinced)
xxx
xxx


// Sideboard
1 Voidmage Apprentice   (Combo, Control)
2 Hurkyls Recall      (Stax)
2 Darkblast         (Waterfront Bouncer, Stormspace apprentice, Welder and Confidant)
4 Leyline of the void      (Ichorid)
1 Massacre         (Fish)
3 Shaper Parasite        (Fish)

2 slots left….


////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Some explanations :

/////////////// Trickbind / Stifle :
I definitely prefer to use trickbind than stifle in this for different reasons:
   - it makes the alternative way to put Phyrexian in play a lot safer,
   - it provides you with a nice trick for game 2, playing/sacrificing Phyrexian without trickbind in hand, to divert opponent’s counter – in a game 2, thanks to this trick, I succeeded in making opponent play a fow and a mana drain.
   - it is also very strong against flash which disruption pack rarely contains duress
   - it works for the whole turn – can be pretty useful to shut down a chalice1 during a turn
IMO, the “1 more mana disadvantage” is largely balanced.

/////////////// Dark confidant not being used :
Dark confidant is a great card, that’s for sure. But what I noticed during my playtests is that this little boy is a little bit slow when it comes to help me finding my key cards. I often would have preferred having an impulse in hand that the confidant… 
I am pretty sure I can find another solution to :
-   quickly find and put on board the cards I really need to win, meaning Mask, Phyrexian and/or Voidmage
-   quickly find a solution to remove from board the cards that prevent me from playing my key cards
Moreover, this little wizard has been the cause of my loss many times, especially when facing a fish or aggro deck (which is one of my worst match up).
Again, this card is great, but considering the game plan of this deck, the hate it faces, the difficulties it may have, I think it may not be the best solution.

/////////////// Demonic consultation added, yawgmoth removed
In this deck, demonic consultation is really nice. Only one concern : you show a huge part of your deck to the opponent, which decreases the surprise and bluffing factor.

I removed yawgmoth because I noticed that each time I played it (except in very late game or when lotus was in graveyard), I was only able to play 1-2 spell. Strong but not 100% necessary IMO…

/////////////// Why Voidmage apprentice is still in this list
Because it is great, because I won so many games thanks to it, because it is really an ideal partner for Phyrexian and because it is so peaceful when this little guy is on board, ready to un flip. And if the Riptide Laboratory is also on board, that’s party time.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Match ups :

// Stax
Not good for this deck : sphere is bad, tangle and smokestack are very efficient given that this deck doesn’t put on board lots of permanent, welder can mean “gg” if one artefact has been put in graveyard…
I would say 40/60.

// .Long decks
This is a good match up, the plan is clearly to use your disruption in early game to slow them down and to rush for an apprentice on board face-down. Most of the time, this should buy you enough time to kill with Phyrexian.
I would say 55/45 in my playtest : on MWS, I noticed two different reactions from my opponents :
- the stupid one, generally from poor player, after loosing 2 or 3 games : “Pff, your deck is completely silly, it doesn’t fit metagame, you are so lucky, ….”
- the intelligent one, from people intrigued that want to play at least 5 or 6 games to challenge both their deck and mine.

// Flash
I didn’t play enough games to provide you with a relevant percentage :
- I played several times against “non powerised flash” : 5-0 for this deck
- against powerised flash : 4-3
…
The disruption pack works perfectly well against flash : trickbind, fow, duress and apprentice.


// Ichorid
…. Except with a broken hand, first game is over (but it is still possible to win the first one, I would say ~20%). Even if it is alone, Phyrexian is big.

// Control/Combo, Combo/Control
This is a good match up. Again, Apprentice is huge and the deck can be really fast, putting a 2 turns clock on board on turn 1.
I would say 55/45

// Fish
50/50 on game 1, bad on game 2… All the cards part of the “fish hate pack” are relevant and strong against this deck, it is difficult to race because the hate spells are very low CC, …. Right, now, this is quite a tough match up.
I would say 45/55

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Some questions :

// The “Two cards to be added” question :
I need to improve my 2 baddest match ups, that is fish and stax.
The fish pb : the hate is strong
The stax pb : I don’t have a lot of permanent in play, I need to keep Phyrexian on board at least 2 turns after it has been played…

Perhaps tinker+colossus could be those two cards... But I am not really convinced...

Right now, the “two cards to be added” are “2 x merchant scroll”, which helps me finding quickly
-   trickbind to play Phyrexian
-   bounce to solve pb
-   ancestrall to draw
I am not sure this is the best solution : Idea?


// The sideboard
I don’t think this sideboard is really good.
This deck faces a lot of hate: artefact, creature, blue, spells with small CC…. To sum up, the only hate it doesn’t care about is “graveyard” 
When not “hard hated”, this deck is really efficient. That’s why it works really well against combo and control.
My interrogation is that I still don’t know if my side has to be focused on :”Preventing or removing opponent’s hate” or “Delivering hate for opponent’s deck”…
Right, now, I think I am in the middle of nowhere, with a side that is not really consistant…
Perhaps tinker+colossus should be part of this side.

So I will be pleased to read your opinions when it comes to those 2 questions.

[BruiZar]

Zoetic Cavern seems like a funny inclusion to the deck. I think you may be able to confuse one or two people with it. Too bad it's not a creature so you can't slide it under a mask but it morphs anyway. Flipping it in response to a plowshares is just that funny

[Phele]

As funny as Zoetic is, it's not really competetive. So sorry I am, and its Beders thread and don't want to hinder the furhter discussion on its Utah Jazz Team I even don't think that Voidmage Apprentice is really improving the deck. As nice as the trick with Mask can be, I really believe that the biggest improvement this deck got with the errata is being less dependend on the Mask. Without Mask Apprentice seem almost useless as this deck can and should be tuned to function with just a small mana base. With adding another Mask creature - and you could take Willbender or Fathom Seer as well – your deck is focussing on getting Mask into play as older versions of this deck. But your deck gets much stronger when you don't do that.

Then you will notice for instance, that it is better not to run a full set of Masks an four to five Stifle effects instead. So you have much lesser dead cards in the deck, which Mask sometimes can be. I think three Masks and five Stifle effects is a good combination as the Stifles gives you so much added flexibility and Time Walk effects, that are very often enought to bring through the finishing 12 damage. In my eyes it's not about bringing in Dreadnought into play safer, you do it by the way while disruping and generating card advantage with Confidant. If you lose one Dreadnought don't mind, you will find another as you run four of them.

On this road I would also not include Sol Ring, as it's not your main goal to bring in a Mask as quick as possible. The off color moxen are totally fine in getting Confidants, Counter, Scroll, Mask or Dreadnought + Stifle online in the first turn. Mana Crypt can help you out on this as well, but after turn one I rarely have use for two colorless mana at once. It's like not playing Crypt in Oath as well.

After more testing I can say that the deck seem pretty strong. It really plays out like SS but without one of SS's biggest weaknesses – the missing punch. With this deck you don't have to fear creatures that much as SS does, as can easily adapt the strategy and confrontate them with an usually much bigger critter. Even without Erayo the disruption package is still really strong. I for instance won almost every game against flash. With all these Stifles, Duress, Explosives, Extirpates around they have a hard time. I also don't fear GAT as other decks do. When you consiquently go the mana denial route against them, does it give you a got chance of winning. Sometimes preboarding also an early Dreadnought might be enough. And the Chains of Mephistopheles out of the board are pretty strong against GAT as well. Oath and Fish have been almost even in the testing games, and Workshop-Decks are pretty difficult. Your best chance against them is by aggresively go on the Dreadnought kill. Ichorid is like every deck: Great after boarding, just a small winning chance before (a mix of Stifle and Wasteland can help against Bazaar).

Anyway: I'm still working a bit on my sideboard, but the maindeck seem really fine to me. Imo this deck can be a real contender!

[beder]

Hi phele,

Nice to hear your opinion.
The point is we are not playing the same deck, even if the kill is in both cases phyrexian.

As you said, yours is a nice variant of SS : mana disruption, imposing your tempo and killing with phyrexian.
Mine is a combo control or a control combo, depending of the games... But I don't agree the "it's not your main goal to bring in a Mask as quick as possible". Yes it is!
This enables all the power of the deck, and of course this is also the weak part of the deck...

You are right on the sol ring point, i don't need it. But i keep the mana crypt, so usefull for devastating first turn.


// Manabase   

4 Polluted Delta   
1 Bloodstained Mine
2 Swamp   
3 Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Riptide Laboratory (New +1)
(16 lands)

// Mana accelerators
 5 Moxes
 1 Black Lotus
 1 Mana Crypt

// Base of the deck
 4 Illusionary Mask
 4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
 3 Voidmage Apprentice
 4 Dark Confidant (New)

// No comment
 1 Ancestral Recall
 1 Time Walk
   
// Basic disruption (note that Voidmage Apprentice is also part of the disruption pack)
 4 Force of Will
 4 Duress   

// Utility
2 Trickbind
1 Echoing Truth
1 Repeal (New)

// Tutors and card searcher
3 Brainstorm
2 Impulse
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation

The side in unchanged

////////////////////////////////////

[Puinsai]

Shop! Nought :

/ Lands
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
3 Polluted Delta
1 Academy Ruins

// Creatures
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Dark Confidant
1 Razormane Masticore

// Spells
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
4 Illusionary Mask
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trinisphere
1 Pithing Needle
1 Darkblast
1 Echoing Truth
1 Repeal
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Duress
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Memory Jar

I'd assume that any up to date version would include Stifle effects, which seem to have quite a bit of synergy with Spheres, Wastes, etc.    This list + Stifles is probably where I would start today.

What is the list now ? i think ..
- 1 Imperial Seal
- 1 Repeal
- 1 Demonic Consultation
+ 3 Stifles

and THORN OF AMETHYST for Spheres  yes or not i think not !

Have some news for Shop! Nought.

Thks.