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Author Topic: Shaping a NetherVoid-Workshop-Deck  (Read 1563 times)
Fossy
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« on: August 17, 2007, 01:51:46 am »

Hello Everybody,

I finally registered at TMD and this is my very first post, which aims to generate some input, feedback and perhaps guidance on a bunch of cards, I threw together lately calling it a Vintage-Deck. It was build around my very favourite card – Nether Void. I fell in love with that thing, when I was playing a b/g version of Suicide Black, only splashing green for Pernicious Deed. So, without further chattering, here is my Decklist.

Mana (27):
4x Mishra's Workshop
3x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Tolarian Academy
1x Gemstone Mine
3x City of Brass
2x Gilded Lotus
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Mana Vault
1x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring
1x Black Lotus
5x Moxen

Lock (15):
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Nethervoid
1x Trinisphere
4x Crucible of Worlds
3x Orb of Dreams

Utility & Tutoring & Draw(11):
4x Goblin Welder
1x Time Walk
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
2x Intuition
1x Tinker

Kill (7):
1x Sundering Titan
1x Duplicant
2x Triskelion
1x Triskelavus
2x Karn, Silver Golem


Sideboard
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Razormane Masticore
3x Eon Hub
2x Jester’s Cap
3x Phyrexian Totem
1x Orb of Dreams
1x Duplicant

As you all can see, this thing startet out as a kind of prison deck. Some of you might wonder, why there’s no Smokestack or even Braids. Well, this is due to a personal impression: I found Smokestack simply to slow, because it only starts to work on the opponent’s board 3 turns after casting. And that’s to late. Braids on the other hand was quite difficult to cast with BB. So far, I didn’t regret to have cut those two. Nethervoid paired with strip effects is already a tough and very solid lock, while smashing face with some artefact beatsticks. Some of you might find Orb of Dreams an odd choice. But from my limited experience, it’s insane in the current metagame. Flash in it’s Kiki-Jiki-variant (most common over here in Germany as far as I can tell) will not work, Ichorid or Dredge is slowed down tremendously an GAT has it’s problems when gushing an laying the lands down again without getting mana out. That’s it so far. The rest is quite self-explanatory. But questions are welcome and appreciated.

As far as the sideboard goes, it’s as always metagame dependant. Leyline is obvious. Eon Hub shuts down traditional Staxx and opposing Energy Fluxes. Phyrexian Totems are from my experience just nuts against Landstill and Staxx providing a fast kill. The rest are gap-fillers. By the way I don’t want to discuss the sideboard choices as they change from tourney to tourney anyway. Some hints, comments are and criticism is welcome though. Please just don’t focus on the sideboard please.

But in the end the Deck still does not feel right and I have come to the point, where I find it hard to go on on myself. Perhaps the Deck needs to be pushed more to the prison strategy or – the other way around – to the beatdown strategy. I’m kind of stuck and, to be honest, not open-minded anymore. And that’s, where I expected the TMD-community to kick in. It definitely needs shaping and tuning. I’m really open to every single idea. There’s only one constraint: Nether Void has to stay. Smile

So I hope you enjoyed so far, and that I will get some of your impressions. And don’t be to shy.


/Fossy
« Last Edit: August 18, 2007, 02:16:11 am by Fossy » Logged
limitedwhole
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« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2007, 03:05:49 am »

this looks pretty cool.  It's nice to see poepl mixiung things up and experimenting.  Since this is a nethrvoid based deck, all those fatty artifact creatures aren't needed.  You don't need to win fast.  I would play gorilla shaman and just beat down with shaman and welder under a void.  Tech like Trisk can be left for board.
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limitedwhole
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« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2007, 09:57:25 am »

This deck is pretty confused.  The artifact elements aren't good with void.  Tangle Wire would be the best and it isn't in the lists.  Gorilla shaman is a must play card.  Finally how do you ensure that Void gets in play?  You can't weld it like the artifact lock pieces.  Why not just play a red/black aggro Void?  If you want tp blend void and shop you need a cohesive plan for doing it.  It looks like you took a shop list and just added void.  Try starting from scratch and figuring out artifacts go best with void.  Looking forward to your replies.
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Thegreatgonzo
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« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2007, 10:10:56 am »

The problem is that Workshop can't fuel the void. Personnaly, I don't like Urbog, because allowing opponent's islands and deltas to produce black is a bad, bad thing. So I think I'll go for ancient tombs. It will also helps you to play the others non-artifacts spells like tinker or intuition.

Also, if you plan to keep a rainbow manabase, you should try Balance. It's really broken, you won't regret it, even with all the creatures in your deck.
Hope this helps.

The great gonzo
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Fossy
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« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2007, 03:00:07 pm »

Be greeted!

So far, I played a couple of games at a tourney against a field of mostly Flash, GAT and random fishstyle aggro. At the end I went 3 – 2 – 0. The two losses are due to heavy mistakes I made, which I’ll not present to you. You would call me “stupid idiot” otherwise. Smile But now is now and I’ve learned from those mistakes. Anyway, I’m so lucky about your comments and your help and I’ll happily reply everything.

1st: Yes! This thing is far from being a tight and balanced deck as it’s not thoroughly practiced. Tangle Wire is already on my mind but since now hasn’t proven in testing. But from time to time I gave and will give it a new chance. I simply can’t figure out, why I’m so unhappy with it. I also must admit, that it might be better to go b/splash and cutting all those artefacts. But as the title states, this shall be a Workshop-NetherVoid-Deck, so I propose we try this until we all agree it’s senseless. I considered the combination of Workshop and Void the major aim of this thread.

2nd: Since now, playing Nether Void is rarely a problem. Neither the deck’s mana base nor opponent’s counterwall prevented getting it in play. Concerning the manabase, Void comes usually down turn two or three and Force of Will is usually already gone so far. If it’s still countered, then another thread comes through. But most of the time, it hits play.

3rd: I’ve to agree, that Gorilla Shaman deserves a spot in the list. As for now, I might cut the two Intuitions for him, as I was not at all lucky with them so far, although they seem good on paper. They can find lands for Crucible and artifacts for Welder.

4th: I’m absolutely settled on Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. It is so good every single time it hits the board. It enables a 2nd turn Nether Void, if you started with a Workshop and offcolor artefact mana. I can also play the additional costs of a Nether Void with a Workshop, when Urborg is in the game. And it synergizes with Sundering Titan, because he can take out one more land – despite destroying tapped (Orb of Dreams) fetchlands or wastelands, possibly destroying two islands for example has proven very strong. Of course it is to be considered a drawback, that Urborg gives black mana to my opponent. But that doesn’t worry me: If they play black, they can play their fast and most threatening spells (i.e. duress) anyway.

5th: Balance is a fantasic idea, I honestly didn’t think off. Due to the evolvement of the deck I never considered colours other then b/u/r. The rainbow manabase was the last step setting the “drawback” of Sundering Titan to zero.

For now I hope, I’ve answered all your questions and gave you the input, you wanted to hear. Please be patient with me for the Workshop/NetherVoid-Combination Smile I’d be glad, if you’d stay on the discussion. Possibly and hopefully there’ll be more people to join us. If I finally adjust the list, I’ll do so in the very 1st post, because I feel, that always posting new lists ruins the clarity of the thread.

/Fossy
« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 02:56:49 am by Fossy » Logged
WhiteWolf
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« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2007, 03:00:33 am »

When Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth came out I tested different versions of Black Stax a lot. You can find the thread I started (and that became pretty long) here: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=31858.0

Some of the best things these decks had going were the Confidant-Bazaar drawing engine, the fact that utility lands like Maze of Ith and Bazaar of Baghdad could produce mana and the possibility to hardcast Leyline of the Void.

In the end madmanmike25 formulated it best with the last sentence of the thread: "I think most of the people who sufficiently tested out Black Stax have found that MonoRed(Uba) or 4/5c stax just work better.  Hope any of that helps." Mono-black also limits your sideboard possibilities. For example, Gate to Phyrexia/Factory/CoW was the best I could find against other Stax decks.

Anyway, the deck has certain possibilities and can go in different directions. Nether Void sure is a great lock if you can throw it down.

At the moment I would play something like this (untested and off the top of my head!):

Void Stax

4 Dark Confidant

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Powder Keg
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trinisphere
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Nether Void

4 Bazaar of Baghdad

4 Cabal Pit
4 Mishra’s Factory
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

Sideboard

4 Maze of Ith
4 Gate to Phyrexia
3 Yixlid Jailer
4 Engineered Plague

Sudden Death seems another interesting sideboard card. Maybe a 2/2 split with Maze of Ith to circumvent Pithing Needle better. Keep in mind that Factory/CoW can keep Dryads at bay.

Succes with the deck and I'm sure going to follow this thread with much intrest!
« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 03:06:48 am by WhiteWolf » Logged

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