Oath of druids in the current meta.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I like tyrant in the sb, and right now I think it's better than the platz main, especially if you’re running chalice. However, I'm not sure if the old TOA kill is necessary, it seems like a "win more" card. If you think constantly resetting dryad isn't enough to win a game, or expect a lot of combo in your meta, I'd recommend cunning wish for brain freeze, simply due to versatility and deck space.

A few comments about the list:
I'd cut lotus petal. I've tested a lot of oath, and there are just better things to put in the slot.
You have no way to generate card advantage. Its hard to resolve Oath with decks like GAT around if you don't have a way to draw cards/control.
With only three waste effects and no factory, is life from the loam an optimal use of main deck space?

Red akroma: I actually had the misfortune of playing one in my SB on a day when one of my simics went missing a while back. I can speak from experience when I tell you the pump ability is really no good, and not being able to be targeted is just safer than pro u/w.
If she had haste, I’d be much happier.

[Malhavoc]

I've been playing this deck for a very long time, and it's absolutely a strong choice. However, with Ichorid a Flash going around, it really needs some improvement.

The old list I used to run was this:

// Lands
    2  Flooded Strand
    2  Snow-Covered Island
    1  Tolarian Academy
    2  Underground Sea
    4  Forbidden Orchard
    1  Library of Alexandria
    2  Polluted Delta
    1  Tropical Island

// Creatures
    1  Tidespout Tyrant

// Spells
    4  Force of Will
    4  Mana Drain
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Time Walk
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Sol Ring
    4  Oath of Druids
    1  Mystical Tutor
    3  Cunning Wish
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Krosan Reclamation
    4  Brainstorm
    2  Deep Analysis
    1  Demonic Tutor
    3  Duress
    4  Accumulated Knowledge
    2  Intuition

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Oxidize
SB: 1  Stifle
SB: 1  Brain Freeze
SB: 1  Sundering Titan
SB: 1  Tinker
SB: 1  Echoing Truth
SB: 1  Extirpate
SB: 1  Vampiric Tutor
SB: 1  Massacre
SB: 1  Misdirection
SB: 1  Rebuild
SB: 4  Leyline of the Void


(Sometimes I try to put some Chalices of the void in the side, they are very good with a Tyrant in play)

Playing tendrils maindeck is not really useful. With Tyrant you can get infinite storm with ease, so cunning wish for freeze is enough, and differently from tendrils, cunning wish can be a very useful (even if a bit slow) spell on its own.

I like to play the deck with an old-control style, so the reason for the Intu+AK engine. Deeps are good with intuitions too, but most of all are great after a resolved oath (which can find you with an almost depleted hand).

You can play with two Tyrants, but in my experience one is usually enough if you play carefully. I prefer the tinker+titan plan in the side for certain matchups. Platinum could be nice sometimes but does not resolve problems, and simic is just too slow (double tyrant would be ALWAYS better than Tyrant+Simic or Simic+Simic).



Now, the problem in the current metagame is that AK are not always so good (grave hate, extirpate, and not so quick overall). Some guys here in Italy are trying to switch them with just more counterspells to force a quick oath and/or stop a quick threat. Personally I don't like this option too much, but it's mostly a style issue.

There are other ways that can be followed: gush is one, but even if a Gush-Oath deck has done well in Italy in a VERY big tournament recently, I don't feel it's the best way to go. Losing lands for a control-oriented deck isn't nice at all. A possible switch I'm thinking about could be:

-4AK
+1 Intuition
+1 Lotus Petal
+1 Flash of Insight
+1 Duress

The third intuition would give more tutoring power (many cards are at least 3x), and could fetch Deeps if draw power is needed.  Petal is another zero cc permanents which enables a infinite storm, and most of all a card which accelerates first turn duress/oath/drain. The fourth duress is gold against decks like flash. Flash of insight is a interesting tech which needs a bit of discussion.

Even if just an awful impulse if drawn, which can just cycle for 2U (but which flashbacks with 1U as an impulse giving card advantage) its REAL power is after an oath activation. It can usually dig VERY deep when flashbacked to let us find a missing combo piece to seal the deal immediately. In particular if we flashback it for an X >= than the number of cards left (happen quite often), then we can choose how to stack the whol remaining deck, thus doing a sort of Demonic+Vampiric with just 1U; this can be particularly good togheter with krosan, so that we can put back in case they were milled ywill + lotus/counter and be sure to draw both of them this turn. Used in such ways, Flash of Insight help us reach an incredible amount of win % on the same turn we activate oath.

[netherspirit]

I actually think the way for Oath to go at the moment is mono-black with a splash of green. My current list runs quite a bit of discard, a full set of Wastelands and Strip Mine, a few draw cards and quite a lot of tutors. The idea is to pull up Oath and Forbidden Orchard as soon as possible, whilst playing the aggro role rather than the control role; I can post my list if people want.

Just an idea! But I think it really is the way for Oath to go at the moment.

netherspirit

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

why do you think going GB would be better? Blue gives you brainstorms and brokeness.

On another topic: In my tyrant oath list, I play the following:

control:

4 mana drain
4 force of will
4 duress

draw:

4 brainstorm
1 ancestral recall
1 Deep analysis
1 impulse

Tutor:

1 demonic tutor
1 vampiric tutor
1 mystical tutor
1 merchant scroll
1 cunning wish

Kill:
4 Oath of druids
1 tidespout tyrant
1 eternal witness
1 krosan reclamation
1 flash of insight

Bullets:

1 yawgmoth's will
1 balance
1 time walk
1 mind twist
1 echoing truth

Mana:

1 strip mine
1 wasteland
4 forbidden orchard
2 underground sea
1 flooded strand

1 tropical island
2 underground sea
1 island
4 city of brass

1 black lotus
1 lotus petal
1 mox sapphire
1 mox emerald
1 mox jet
1 mox pearl

I like playing with this version very much, becaue you can win on the turn you oath almost always. If you Oath up witness first, take a time walk or something alike (Like, playing a little will or backing up with a counter). Then, Tyrant + Witness = play your deck. Kill options:
- infinite turns
or
- let them draw their deck

(Or Beatdown with unbreakable counter walls)

Flash of insight is a real bomb when it comes to stacking your library. You can (for example in your upkeep) arrange your whole deck, tutor for a card.

The disruption I run is immense, from 8 counters to duress + mind twist and some singletons like balance and echoing truth (which gets better when more emptied warrens are around)

The draw engine is lame. What could be done there? I want something which is good at it's own, not just another drain sink (ala Intuition AK)

The good thing about this list is that you don't have to run something like tendrils main anymore and the witness acts as a second win condition that helps you out when something happens to tyrant.

Soetimes, you just destroy the enemy with keeperish bombs like mind twist or balance, other times you win on turn 2.
But the draw could really be a bit better

[Solomox]

These days I have primarily play GAT, but I must admit that Oath has always been my favorite deck to play.  When anything important is at stake, I'll go with GAT but Oath is always fun and is often a powerhouse that people take too lightly.  I've been doing a lot of playtesting lately vs GAT, BUW Fish, and various Tendrils decks (Grim, Pitch, Mean Deck, etc.) and I've found a foreign decklist I really liked.  Some changes will be made soon, due to my playtesting.  Here's what Im playing:

1 x Black Lotus
1 x Mox Emerald
1 x Mox Jet
1 x Mox Pearl
1 x Mox Ruby
1 x Mox Sapphire
1 x Lotus Petal
1 x Sol Ring
4 x Chalice of the Void

4 x Oath of Druids

1 x Tidespout Tyrant
1 x Eternal Witness

1 x Ancestral Recall
4 x Brainstorm
2 x Cunning Wish
4 x Force of Will
1 x Krosan Reclamation
3 x Mana Drain
2 x Misdirection
2 x Thirst for Knowledge
1 x Vampiric Tutor

1 x Demonic Tutor
4 x Duress
1 x Time Walk
1 x Yawgmoth's Will

2 x Flooded Strand
3 x Polluted Delta
4 x Forbidden Orchard
1 x Island
2 x Tropical Island
2 x Underground Sea
1 x Tolarian Academy

SB:
1 x Brain Freeze
1 x Krosan Reclamation
1 x Tinker
1 x Darksteel Colossus
1 x Platinum Angel
4 x Oxidize
1 x Rushing River
1 x Fire/Ice
4 x Various Metagame Cards

@ PETER FLUGZEUG
I really like some of the stuff you have in here.  I do need to get a Flash of Insight in here.  The Mind Twist is funny because I was thinking of adding it the other day.  I'm not sure of the Balance, how often do you use it and what matchups do you think its a necessity?

@netherspirit
Do you have a decklist for your BG version?

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

You mustn't give credit to me for flash of insight, malhavoc came up with the idea.

I use Balance quite often to destroy the opponents hand, as Gush Decks have better draw. Also, it's good to bounce orchard tokens and weep the board off goblins (also warren tokens). I don't know if it's really a nescessity, though.

I think I could also go -1 drain +1 misdirection.

How do you like the chalices? I've got the impression that they aren't too useful right now. also, I've got a rules question: Is it possible to play a mox with chalice set to 0 and tyrant in play? can you just bounce chalice and the mox resolves?

I don't really like sol ring in here, in the first turn I usually want to play duress or brainstorm, T2 I want to have drain mana open (doesn't matter if I have one).
 

[netherspirit]

@netherspirit
Do you have a decklist for your BG version?

Why yes I do.

Mana Base:
1 Black Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Lotus Petal
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Bayou
2 Polluted Delta
2 Windswept Heath

Creatures:
1 Akroma
1 Razia

Disruption:
4 Duress
3 Thoughtseize
3 Extirpate
4 Chalice of the Void

Draw/Tutor:
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Crop Rotation
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
3 Night's Whisper

Board Control:
1 Smother

Other:
1 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Dark Ritual
4 Oath of Druids
1 Gaea's Blessing

Sideboard:
3 Smother
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Platinum Angel
1 Simic Sky Swallower
3 Root Maze
3 Oxidize

The reason I like this build more than regular Oath decks is the much more stable mana base, the ability to first turn Dark Ritual -> 2 or 3 broken cards, and the fact that I can run so much discard. Oath always aims to drop an Oath as soon as possible, so sitting around on counters has often slowed me down significantly with other builds; plus my lack of FoW has meant I don't need to play blue cards to fuel it.

The only card I'm really debating at the moment is the MD Smother, I'm tempted to replace it with another Thoughtseize or possibly Extirpate.

Anyway, that's the build! Make what you will of it.

netherspirit

[Solomox]

@PETER FLUGZEUG
 I can see what you're saying about Balance, but my argument against it would be this: Gush decks can bounce all their lands and wipe you.  They may have to discard their hand, but as a GAT player it doesn't really scare me.  I agree that a well timed Balance can cripple any deck, but against really good GAT players it will be hard to sneak a balance out .  All they need on the board to kill is 1 Dryad / Tog and at most 2 lands.  With Fastbond and Yawg Will they can recover too quickly.  Just my opinion.  I don't really know your meta, so if it works for you don't stop playing it.  Also with Goblin tokens from Warrens Echoing Truth is still my favorite way to get rid of those.  1 in the board is a good move. 

The Drain/Misdirect spot can be toyed with.  I just haven't looked into it.  I think if I cut a Drain, I'll probably put a Flash of Insight in.  That still leaves 4 Fow, 2 Drain, 2 Misdirect and 4 Duress for disruption. 

About the Sol Ring it's still up in the air.  For now I like it.  It seems to fit in the deck.  The Academy in here is awesome.  Being able to just hard cast Tyrant if need be is really important. 

I was doing some more playtesting last night after my post and have cut the Chalice's.  I really don't like them in here.  Anytime I use them to affect my opponent it usually ends up being annoying for me as well.  On 0, I can't play my own Mox's and such which prevents me from the 2 Mox infinite spell/mana combo that I use with the Brain Freeze from the board.  Chalice on 1 keeps me off Duress, Brainstorm, Ancestral etc.  Chalice on 2 stops my Oath, and infinite Turns with Time Walk.  With a Tyrant on the board though, you can play around you own Chalice.  You just have to be able to play a spell to bounce in on your turn and then replay it after you go stupid with something.  Even still, in the matches I played they were never game breaking.  I cut them from the maindeck, but they need to still be available so I put them in the SB.

When I cut the chalice's from my list here's what I changed:

-4 Chalice of the Void

+1 Mana Crypt
+1 Flash of Insight
+2 Sensei's Divining Top

Explanation as follows:

Mana Crypt:  Really doesn't need an explanation, but whatever.  With TfK in the deck, I really wanted to try to keep at least 3 of these spots as artifacts to be able to use it efficiently. Also, it's pretty good with the Tinker from the board.  It gives you exactly what you need.  2 mana and sacs to the Tinker.  Plus it's another 0 drop artifact to use with Tyrant to go infinite.  Oh and Academy is broken.

Flash of Insight:  Yeah this card is stupid.  I hear with infinite mana and infinites spells (from 2 Mox's and a Tyrant) being able to stack your deck is broken.  Plus, it pitches to FoW and Misdirection.  I really needed this in here because I still don't like Deep Analysis in T1.  (Although the flavor text still makes me laugh like a crazy man)

Sensei's Divining Top:  As we all know this card is GOOD in Oath.  It can prevent your from drawing a creature and being forced to Brainstorm to put it back.  Also, the versatility of this card in here is just amazing.  Often with Mana Drain you can be forced into a position where you HAVE to counter something broken.  Especially if they Duress you and bait you into something you need to counter to stay alive, but will leave you with mana burn.  With a top on the board you will not burn.  Also, it pitches to TfK.  Also, instant speed digging 3 cards deep in amazing.  Often you can find a FoW, Midirect or just a blue card to pitch and then draw it at instant speed.  After playing with it, this card is so broken in here it must stay.  Not to mention, it's just something you can play, bounce a permanent and then draw a card.  Since I run Academy in here, the more artifacts the better.

OH!  Sidenote:  With a Chalice on 0 you cannot even play the Mox.  Chalice prevents your from Playing it and Tyrant requires that you be able to Play to bounce a permanent.  That's what I believe, but if someone overrules this we can double check...


@netherspirit
I like the decklist.  It's different from usual builds, but interesting.   I see you have a lot of disruption, which is good, but do you ever have problems protecting your creatures/oath?  What kind of Meta do you have in your area?

[Harlequin]

Here is the Gush Oath deck that has been doing me very well lately, Followed by some data about current events:

4 Orchards
4 Fetchlands
3 Trops
2 Underground
3 Islands
1 Library of Alexandria
5 Mox
1 Lotus

4 Oaths
1 Tinker
1 Yawg's will
2 Tidespout Tyrants
1 Sundering Titan

4 Brainstorm
4 Gush
1 Fastbond
1 Ancestral
1 DT
1 Vamp
1 Timewalk
1 Regrowth

4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drains
3 Nix

1 Research//Development
1 Krosan Reclaimation
1 Flash of Insight
1 Wipe Away

/// Board ///
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Platinum Angel
1 Blazing Archon
4 Oxidize
3 Pithing Needle
3 Extirpate
2 Spell Snare

Recent Tournement Placement and Mini-report:
-15 rounds played--
Hadly - Top 4 Split (3-0-2 + top8)
Played: Shops-Win, Gush Tendrils-Win, GAT-Win, and Landstill-Win. (if memory server)

Myraid Games - Lost in Top4 (3-1-1 +top8, +top4)
Played: Land still-Loss, Gush Tendrils-Win, GAT (ELD)-Win, Flash-Win, Bomberman(Oli)-Win, GAT-Lost

Fienstien - 3-1-0 going into final round, got paired down and lost going 3-2.
Played: Gush Tendrils-Win, Flash-Loss, Red Tempo-Win, Landstill-Win, Gush Tendrils-Loss.

Records by Deck:
Gush Tendrils - 3W 1L
GAT - 2W 1L
Landstill* - 2W 1L
Flash - 1W 1L


*- Landstill is actually one of my worst match-ups.  I found this matchup to be very luck-based.  There was one match where I litterally had a 1 in 3 chance to not win because I had 3 cards left in my deck and one was Yawg and I had to draw it.  I got it and edged out a win! 

Accomplishments:
> Flash of insighted for X=10,000 - Once. But I really was mega-winning anyway.
> Flash of insighted for the remainder of my deck - at least 4 times maybe more.
> Times when I wished Flash of Insight was Mystical tutor - basically never. 
> Hard casted a creature - three times.
> cast research - twice
> cast Developement - FOUR times
> cast fastbond-gush-gush, oath with no orchard, then tinker, only to wiped away oath, then cast the oath with orchard giving him a blocker for titan only to win with tyrant ... all in the first game played, leaving my opponent totally mystified and wondering about my mental stability - once.
> times I wished I had Simic instead of Tyrant - zero (well maybe a little against bomberman).
> times I lost because I decked myself - zero
> times I wished Titan had trample, and lost because I "couldn't attack with him" - big fat ZERO.
> times I regretted running titan maindeck - two... but did not loose either game, it just set me back a bit, and made the game a few turns longer.
> times I basically won the game because titan is the "one-sided Armagedon" - three.
> times when Nix was amazing - about a half dozen
> times I wish Nix was Duress - a few

[Harlequin]

I had two people PM Me about the sideboard, so I'll post my logic here instead.
Edit: Sorry about the Double Post.

GAT:
Creatures - Tidespout x3 [net 0]
Creatures if you see Volcanic - Tidespout x2, Archon.
Out - Tinker, Regrowth, Vamp, Drain, Gush [-5]
In - Spell Snare x2, Extirpate x3 [+5]

Tinker rarely save the day in game 2 against GAT.  They will have alot more bounce in the deck for game 2, so an early tinker probably won't brin home the win.  In the Long game, I really have much more confidance in having 3 creatures in the deck.   If you see Volcs running wild, you might want to go with a Tidex2 + Archon configuration, in anticipation of REBs.  Against control, the vamp is not worth it for many reasons, and Regrowth is not nessisary in a 'long' game.  That clears the decks for you're GOLD: Extirpate.  Extirpate is absurd in this matchup.  The basic plan is hit the first blue 4-of that goes into the yard. 
The spell snares are more of a "is this better" call.  1 snare takes the place of 1 drain.  I like having at least 2 drains (remember I only maindeck 3) so I cut a Gush for 2nd snare.  That is debateable.

Gush Tendrils:
Creatures - Tidespout x1, Plats [-1]
Out - Drain, Wipe Away [-2]
In - Extirpate x3 [+3]

Gush Tendrils is a 'fast' game.  So you need all your bombs and tutors.  The game plan Shifts more towards Tinker.  Also Extirpate on Dark Ritual will make getting for tendrils much harder for them.

Ray's "Staxless" Stax (5c Shop welder tricks):
Creatures - Tidespout x3 (possibly Archon too) [net 0]
Out - Tinker, 3 Nix, 3 (Drain & Gush), Regrowth, Vamp [-9]
In - Pithing Needle x3, Oxidize x4, Extirpate x2 [+9]

Why Oxidize?  This card is essential to any oath deck.  If you run less than 4 of these in the board then expect to loose to Chalice.  Remeber that a Chalice for 2 counters a chalice for 1.  This basically means that 9 times out of 10, you will always be able to oxidize a chalice on 2.  If you go the other way, and try and rely on some 3 cost spell, you run the risk of getting hurt by land destruction or sphere of resistance.
Outside of that, Needles are pritty obvious, they hit everything good.  Manytimes nameing Wastland on the blind is a good idea, and welder right after that.  But basically those are going to be the first two cards you want to name.
Extirpate is great for stoping recursion.  Hitting Wasteland, Stripmine, Jester's Cap, Duplicant - etc.  That will get you out of some jams.  Also with Tidespout you get a splitsecond bounce.  So you can use extirpate + Tidespout to bounce an active untapped welder w/o you're opponent getting a chance to respond (because of the trigger order and the wording on split second).

For More traditional Stax lists, you may want to keep in drains and leave the Extirpates in the board.

Flash:
Creatures - Plats, Archon [-1]
Out: Drain, Regrowth, Oath x1, Wipe Away
In: Extirpate x3, Spell Snare x2

Ichorid
Creatures - Plats Archon [-1]
Out: Drain, Regrowth, Gush, Drain, Wipe Away
In: Pithing Needle x3, Extirpate x3

[netherspirit]

@Solomox: Protecting my creatures is a little harder with this build, but as long as I have destroy my opponent's hand enough already, it's a relatively small threat. My meta (just me and my friends basically), is some Stax, GAT, Fish, Ichorid and occasionally Flash (which is why my deck pretty much rolls to it).

[Solomox]

Just to get the discussion going again, I'll put up the Main Deck of the version I am currently playing.  (Just a couple changes from the last time)

1 x Black Lotus
1 x Mox Emerald
1 x Mox Jet
1 x Mox Pearl
1 x Mox Ruby
1 x Mox Sapphire
1 x Lotus Petal
1 x Mana Crypt
2 x Sensei's Divining Top

4 x Oath of Druids

1 x Tidespout Tyrant
1 x Eternal Witness

1 x Ancestral Recall
4 x Brainstorm
2 x Cunning Wish
4 x Force of Will
1 x Krosan Reclamation
4 x Mana Drain
2 x Misdirection
2 x Thirst for Knowledge
1 x Vampiric Tutor
1 x Flash of Insight

1 x Demonic Tutor
4 x Duress
1 x Time Walk
1 x Yawgmoth's Will

2 x Flooded Strand
3 x Polluted Delta
4 x Forbidden Orchard
1 x Snow Covered Island
2 x Tropical Island
2 x Underground Sea
1 x Tolarian Academy

I know some explanations are in order:

Academy:  I feel there is no reason not to play it.  It allows you to hard cast the Tyrant in a pinch.  Helps you go off and can give you broken starts.  If nothing else, it's a wasteland target that they may feel the need to hit instead of your duals.

4 Drains:  I can't help it.  I just feel that any deck is better with Mana Drain.  This deck can use the fuel to hard cast Tyrant and, if need be, funnel it all into a Top to prevent burn. 

Sensei's Divining Top:  I've loved this card ever since it came out.  It's so versatile.  Maybe it is overrated, but it has saved me several times.  Digging to that FoW drawing it with the top has been a lucky charm.  Also, as mentioned before, it funnels extra Drain mana so you don't burn.  It pitches to TfK and if nothing else, it bounces something with a Tyrant on the board.

Now that the main deck is out there, what I really need opinions on is a SB.  The only things I know for a fact that I want in there are:

1 x Brain Freeze
2 x Research/Development (I friggin HATE StP!!!)
1 x Tidespout Tyrant (eh.... maybe... opinions on the extra one in the board???)

As for the rest, I'm fairly lost.  It's not that I can't just come up with a functional SB, but have ran many games against GAT (which haven't been as bad as I thought since I pretty much run the same disruption suite), Staxless STAX (Irritating, but an early Oath is deadly for them.  Especially since my creatures are Welder-Proof), BUW Fish (Grrrrr.  More than irritating.  They can just be so obnoxious.  I HATE StP!!!)  and Landstill.

GAT is of course, the powerhouse.  One game I had them at 1 life.  All they had on the board was a Drayd with 1 counter on it, but noone can beat a topdeck of Lotus into Will with 30 or so cards in the yard.  (Little monster bashed for 26 with a Berserk)  But then again, that is GAT.  Sometimes it JUST wins. 

I got a little sidetracked though.  The point I'm trying to get at is that the Maindeck feels so good to me that I feel almost any game 1 is winnable (well... Ichorid can get a little stupid).  Should the SB be the typical CotV, Oxidize, etc. or should it be more of a toolbox that enables the Cunning Wishes in the main deck to do more than Brain Freese someone or get R/D to get stuff back?  I've found Chailce at most to be functionally irritating for me to have to play around (before Tyrant hits the board).  I understand it's usefullness agains GAT and Storm, but is it worth the 4 spaces?  Is Stax enough of a threat to warrant 4 Oxidize?  I'm partially debating putting a Volcanic in the MD and putting a set of ReBs in the board and turning Oath into a more controlling deck post board. 

What about something like this?

1 x Brain Freeze
2 x Research/Development
2 x Pyroblast
2 x ReB
2 x Platinum Angel
1 x Rack and Ruin
1 x Fire/Ice
2 x Massacre
2 x Tormod's Crypt

Or even still, anyone remember the old Donate/Illusions deck that Budde ran?  How it could basically put it's whole sideboard in and switch to a different deck post board?  This is so close to GAT that we could basicall swap 13 or so cards and turn it into GAT.  Game 1 they see Oath, Game 2 GAT.  I'm just thinking out loud (er... typing... out... loud... you know what I mean).

SB like this?

1 x Brain Freeze
1 x Research/Development
4 x Quirion Dryad
1 x Psychatog
1 x Fastbond
4 x Gush
3 x Merchant Scroll

I know it's a really dilluted form of GAT, but hey, the old GWS oath could turn into a Tinker/Colossus control deck.  I'm of course leaning towards the first SB where it is more controlling, but this may be crazy enought to work with some fine tuning.  Is it viable or just a crazy man's pipe dream?

[islanderboi10]

In all honesty, especially with the new metagame, I think oath could be extremely good.

I see a lot of sphere of resistance/thorns in the upcoming metagame, especially shop aggro.

So this is what I would put as a sideboard:

1 Brain Freeze
2 Research and Development
1 Tinker
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
2 Simic Skyswallower
4 Oxidize
2 Rack and Ruin
1 ????

I believe shop decks will be everywhere...

I don't know, my $.02

[Dante]

OH!  Sidenote:  With a Chalice on 0 you cannot even play the Mox.  Chalice prevents your from Playing it and Tyrant requires that you be able to Play to bounce a permanent.  That's what I believe, but if someone overrules this we can double check...

FYI - this is incorrect.  If you check the wording on Chalice, you'll see that it doesn't prevent you from playing a spell like Meddling Mage or Gaddock Teeg does, it simply counters the spell.

Oracle text: Chalice of the Void comes into play with X charge counters on it.
Whenever a player plays a spell with converted mana cost equal to the number of charge counters on Chalice of the Void, counter that spell.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

In all honesty, especially with the new metagame, I think oath could be extremely good.

I see a lot of sphere of resistance/thorns in the upcoming metagame, especially shop aggro.

So this is what I would put as a sideboard:

1 Brain Freeze
2 Research and Development
1 Tinker
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
2 Simic Skyswallower
4 Oxidize
2 Rack and Ruin
1 ????

I believe shop decks will be everywhere...

I don't know, my $.02

I would like to second this. However, I'm not so sure that I would want to do the brain freeze kill through a 9 sphere meta. Right now I'm yet again back to akroma razia main and running heavy spell snare. Spell snare hits most things in fish as well as 10 things in stacks I can think of off the top of my head.

[islanderboi10]

In all honesty, especially with the new metagame, I think oath could be extremely good.

I see a lot of sphere of resistance/thorns in the upcoming metagame, especially shop aggro.

So this is what I would put as a sideboard:

1 Brain Freeze
2 Research and Development
1 Tinker
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
2 Simic Skyswallower
4 Oxidize
2 Rack and Ruin
1 ????

I believe shop decks will be everywhere...

I don't know, my $.02

I would like to second this. However, I'm not so sure that I would want to do the brain freeze kill through a 9 sphere meta. Right now I'm yet again back to akroma razia main and running heavy spell snare. Spell snare hits most things in fish as well as 10 things in stacks I can think of off the top of my head.

Yea I Think I have to agree with you.  Maybe the angel plan is better for the meta.  Especially with a lot of stax around.  But does the angel plan beat gush decks?

I havent tested the match up.
Also, do you think I could see your list?

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I haven't tested this build against GAT much yet (it seems to be on the decline),  but its pretty good against the urbana lists and obviously the shop. Spell snare seems to improve your match up greatly, running 4x duress and 12 counter spells. As for sharing the list, it is still in early stages of development and is really straight forward, but sure. I'm definitely open to suggestions.

4x Oath of druids
1x Akroma
1x Razia
1x Gaea’s blessing

4x brainstorm
4x impulse
3x mana drain
4x spell snare
4x force of will
2x duress
2x thoughtseize

1x vamp tutor
1x demonic tutor
1x ancestral recall
1x time walk
5x moxen
1x black lotus

4x fetch lands
3x Tropical Island
2x underground sea
4x forbidden orchard
1x strip mine
2x mishra’s factory
2x wasteland
1x wipe away
1x engineered explosives.

sb:
4x leyline of the void
4x oxidize.
2x pyroclasm
2x simic sky swallower (there's a lot of bouncer running around)
The last 3 slots are open, but I’m partial to factory/loam.


Like I said, the list is straight forward. Right now the drains seem bad, but it’s a hard counter in addition to FOW. I end up burning on it a little more than I'd like but it makes for some good plays against stax. One of my favorite cards in the meta is definitely EE, being relatively unaffected by sphere's, and 2x thoughtseize seems to be the right number.

[islanderboi10]

I haven't tested this build against GAT much yet (it seems to be on the decline),  but its pretty good against the urbana lists and obviously the shop. Spell snare seems to improve your match up greatly, running 4x duress and 12 counter spells. As for sharing the list, it is still in early stages of development and is really straight forward, but sure. I'm definitely open to suggestions.

4x Oath of druids
1x Akroma
1x Razia
1x Gaea’s blessing

4x brainstorm
4x impulse
3x mana drain
4x spell snare
4x force of will
2x duress
2x thoughtseize

1x vamp tutor
1x demonic tutor
1x ancestral recall
1x time walk
5x moxen
1x black lotus

4x fetch lands
3x Tropical Island
2x underground sea
4x forbidden orchard
1x strip mine
2x mishra’s factory
2x wasteland
1x wipe away
1x engineered explosives.

sb:
4x leyline of the void
4x oxidize.
2x pyroclasm
2x simic sky swallower (there's a lot of bouncer running around)
The last 3 slots are open, but I’m partial to factory/loam.


Like I said, the list is straight forward. Right now the drains seem bad, but it’s a hard counter in addition to FOW. I end up burning on it a little more than I'd like but it makes for some good plays against stax. One of my favorite cards in the meta is definitely EE, being relatively unaffected by sphere's, and 2x thoughtseize seems to be the right number.

Seems to need a draw engine.

The lists I was thinking of was that old Choke Oath list.

GWS Choke Oath
4 Forbidden Orchard
3 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
2 City of Brass
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus

4 Oath of Druids

1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Spirit of the Night
1 Gaea's Blessing
4 Duress
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Impulse
3 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Rushing River

Sideboard:
4 Oxidize
2 Triskelion
2 Ground Seal
2 Choke
1 Rushing River
1 Tinker
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Balance
1 Hurkyl's Recall



It seems pretty good, minus the Choke part.
This list was taken from the article.
Look it up on Starcity article search.  Mat Endress took 3rd with it at Gen Con.

I would go -2 Choke, +2 SSS

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

@islanderboi10, or anyone else.
Is chalice really that good in this meta? I'm not sure chalice at 0 is as good as it once was, and chalice at 1 (my go to #) is just terrible for you. I thought long and hard about chalice and cutting it just lead to cutting TFK. I'd have to agree with you about the lack of draw engine, and I never really liked impulse, but it seems like there's nothing better. any other draw engine ideas? intuition/ AK seems to be asking for LL to ruin your day. What do you think about factory? No one seems to want to include it in current builds, but it’s always won me games, especially against fish and stax (which seems to be the meta we're getting into). Is there something I'm not seeing?

Thanks for the suggestions, and the list. I'll take it for a spin and get back to you. I'm also going to change that Triskelion to a thunder dragon, or bogarden hellkite, they just seem like better options. maybe sb a sundering titan. instead of choke.

[Commandant]

@Hax

I was lead to the same conclusion about Chalice of the Void 2 months ago and like you Thirst of Knowledge was also dumped. Currently I have been running 4 Brainstorm and 2 Impulse in my list and the lack of Thirst for Knowledge has hardly been noticeable. I also added a singleton Skeletal Scrying it is quite nice especially since I am still running a full complement of Mana Drains, I suggest you try it.

On a side note: I feel as though it is once time again to main deck Null Rod. In the current New England meta it is quite nuts considering the variety of Stax/MuD/ShopAggro that is floating around.

[Harlequin]

Here is the build I've been testing:

4 Orchards
5 Fetches
3 Trops
2 Undergrounds
3 Islands
1 Library of Alexandria
5 Moxen
1 Lotus
---------------->24
4 Oaths
1 Tinker
2 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Triskelion
---------------->8
4 Brainstorm
4 Gush
1 Fastbond
---------------->9
1 Krosan Reclaimation
1 Flash of Insight
1 Yawgmoth's will
1 DT
1 Vamp
1 Timewalk
1 Regrowth
1 Research/Development
---------------->8
4 Drain
4 Force
1 Wipe Away
2 Engineered Explosives
--------------->11
/////// Sideboard ///////
4 Oxidize
3 Pithing Needle
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
1 Blazing Archon
2 Extirpate
2 Spell Snare


As you can see, my pet card for this deck -Nix- has been sent to greener pastures.  As the power of the Gush engine wanes in light of spheres and teeg, so too does the power of Nix.  Rest in Peace old friend. 
So, Now that trash is outa the deck, we have 3 open slots - w00t!  What to fill them with?  To best decide this lets take a look at the meta:
> GAT, still present, but now takes over a smaller peice of the Meta Pie.
> Gush Combo (non-GAT).  possibly waning even more as this deck cannot slow-roll stax like GAT can.  Will this deck survive?
> OMG SHOPS! Shops are huge right now, they offer both the ability to play AND Out-play the influx of sphere based decks.
> Teeg-based Fish.  This deck is making an attempt to break through.  But we shouldn't worry too much about it as Oath is more or less Teeg-proof.
> Thorn-based Fish. This is the other break through white heavy fish that runs off Thorns, Glowrider, possibly Sphere and just goes for the beats.


So as far as either fish build goes... Oath is already in the advantage.  We want to keep these fish decks on the radar - but not over-meta against them.  Our Gush engine may suffer at the hands of Teeg and spheres, but for oath we don't rely on it the same way GAT or Gush Combo does.  Lets face it, at the end of the day all we have to do is resolve a 2 mana enchantment.  Not too bad.  We don't even really care about Mindcensor which is another plus.

GAT and Combo still need to be in the equation.  By removing Nix we are loosing power there as well. 

Shops and more spesfically: Sphere heavy Shops.  We also want to be thinking about Ray's Staxless builds as well as Uba Builds.

Conclusions:

See above, Nix is out.

So what can we gain for control?  I think Drain is good tool against shops.  It can take some large threats away while giving you delicious colorless mana to fuel spells under a sphere or two. 

The last two cards go to Engineered Explosives.  EE is the ULTIMATE answer to Sphere based control.  The X in the cost alows for super-cheatability when it comes to killing spheres (in that even with two spheres in play, you can still sunburst for 2 with X = 0, and kill both spheres with a 4 mana commitment).  Sphere also answers chalice for 2!  Lastly, you can play it @2 against GAT, or if you're lucky pre-emptively @2 against Teeg decks.  The beauty of EE at two is that, while it may kill Oath - you don't have to kill oath if you are winning.

Gush Engine?  An arguement can certainly be made against the Gush engine to fuel the draws against a meta of OMG-spheres.  However I contest that Gush is still quite a bit more useful to oath because it uses Gush 100% defensively.  Gush can save you against treaterous Wastelands, and still draw you cards at cost under sphere.  The danger lies in your ability to sucsessfully avoid loosing to 3sphere, Smokestax, and Tanglewire, with such a low perm count.

Tinker?  Yes.  Tinker is a bomb that doesn't cost 2 - and can get around meddling mage, Chalice, Extirpate, and is just generally good as - well a bomb.   It also allows easy access to Plats and other robots from the board without taking up board space for tinker itself.

Titan?  Titan is another creature that I have sworn by in the Pre-Lorwyn meta.  It never did me wrong.  Now that shop decks are on the scene - Titan has reserved his plays firmly in the sideboard.  He is still drop-dead stone-cold bonkers against Fish. The question is: What is the right creature to run?  I think Trike is the best artifact creature going today.   He combos very nicely with Tidespout (2 mox = infinite damage).  He is good against Shops (welder, Metalworker).  He's... not terrible against GAT, he can hopefully stall a turn, then commit suicide to clear the decks for a Tidespout.  And He's can stall the board for multiple turns against Fish and/or remove pesky Meddling Mages, Confidants, Waterfronts, and Mindcensors.

[islanderboi10]

@islanderboi10, or anyone else.
Is chalice really that good in this meta? I'm not sure chalice at 0 is as good as it once was, and chalice at 1 (my go to #) is just terrible for you. I thought long and hard about chalice and cutting it just lead to cutting TFK. I'd have to agree with you about the lack of draw engine, and I never really liked impulse, but it seems like there's nothing better. any other draw engine ideas? intuition/ AK seems to be asking for LL to ruin your day. What do you think about factory? No one seems to want to include it in current builds, but it’s always won me games, especially against fish and stax (which seems to be the meta we're getting into). Is there something I'm not seeing?

Thanks for the suggestions, and the list. I'll take it for a spin and get back to you. I'm also going to change that Triskelion to a thunder dragon, or bogarden hellkite, they just seem like better options. maybe sb a sundering titan. instead of choke.

Yes, I believe Chalice can still be strong.  The thing about Choke Oath was to play Oath as if it were a combo deck.  Chalice helps prevent your opponent disruption against the combo.  An early Chalice at zero stopped your opponent from going explosive.  A chalice at one stopped tutors, brainstorms, and Bounce.
Chalice at 2 is murder, unless you have Oath down. Then it stops drains and such.

Null Rod + Drain could and probably is the correct choice, though.  Then we go back to the other Oath build(cant think of the name), which ran Null Rods, Drains, and TFK.  The TFK draw engine is strong, no lie. That Oath did almost the same thing as GWS Choke Oath, but it played more of a control role.

I surely believe that the other Oath build could be the way to go. Drains are strong against Shops.  As is Null Rods. With the power of shops rising, you will certainly see more power(moxen) and less Gush based decks.  I'm not saying Gush will be out, but there will be less of them.  You will probably see more Fish decks as well.

Another thing I liked about the other Oath build was the Inclusion of Stumpy(Mishra's Factory).  The thing is, A lot of the shop decks that will be running around will be Shop Aggro, in my opinion.  Stumpy trades with Juggernaught, and then you can get him back with Life from the Loam.

[Solomox]

Here is an older Oath list that I was using.  It's one of the better ones against Shop based decks.  I shelved it about 6 months ago, but it could be viable again.

5 x Moxen
1 x Black Lotus
4 x Chalice of the Void
3 x Null Rod

4 x Oath of Druids

1 x Razia
1 x Akroma

4 x Force of Will
1 x Ancestral Recall
2 x Mana Drain
2 x TfK
4 x Duress
1 x Time Walk
1 x Gaea's Blessing
4 x Brainstorm
1 x Demonic Tutor
1 x Vampiric Tutor
1 x Life From the Loam

3 x Polluted Delta
2 x Flooded Strand
3 x Underground Sea
3 x Tropical Island
3 x Wasteland
1 x Strip Mind
4 x Forbidden Orchard

SB:
4 x Oxidize
1 x Tinker
1 x Darksteel Colossus
2 x Triskelion
1 x Platz
2 x Rushing River
2 x Tormod's Crypt
2 x Extirpate

It has all of the basic Oath strategies, but has a maindeck and sideboard that isn't so tight it's hard to change stuff.  It has Null Rod's main deck, as well as Chalices's.  Both are extremely good in the Shop matchup.  Not to mention that post board you can put in Triskelion's to shoot Welders, and Oxidize to hit anything else pesky (Smokestack, Tangle Wire, Trinisphere, Sphere of Resistance and Thorns are my ideal targets).  A well timed extirpate can save you a lot of headache, especially against Welders.  Also, I stand by a theory that against stax, Duress is not bad if you have graveyard hate to back it up.  Extirpate fills this role nicely.  Just an idea from the last time Stax was a pain. 

Also:  Thanks Dante for the clarification.  I really don't need to be thinking about rules questions after a severe lack of sleep.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Against shop.

null rod:
I've tried main deck and sb null rod. One thing I’ve consistently noticed is how bad it is in the shop match up. All of there artifacts, save trik, work off static abilities. The end result is that you've shut down, both of your sets of moxen, sol ring and vault (mana crypt has apparently fallen out of favor due to the lack of synergy with prison style decks, especially with staxless variants). You’re nullifying 2 cards for running an average of 2 null rods. After all is said and done, you both relying on only your lands, and there lands are better than yours, they tap for more mana, they run more waste effect, more factory, and they just run more lands in general. Not to mention you've just made crucible/waste absolutely amazing. Looking at current list and talking to other stax players the only other thing it really hits, especially in 9 sphere, is the trik, which gets sb'd out for dupe anyways. I could see it being worth it for fish, but not for oath.

my sb plan was always -4 chalice,- misdirection, - x duress,1 something else if needed, +3 oxidize,+ 4 leyline.

Currently it starts with -4 duress +3 oxidize, - 3 snare, +4 LL.
Obviously it changes depending on lists/variants.

Leyline makes your control much better, and oxidize is a bomb. At the time it was also a good discard to thirst as well.

About duress: I usually don’t run more than 2 if any in conjunction with chalice. If not on the play, a stax player’s opening turn is usually enough to make duress useless and a lot of the time I’d rather sit on a fetch land than risk the waste. It might not make much sense, but I tend to resolve more oaths that way.

[islanderboi10]

I would definetly cut some non-basics for Basic lands.  And also Mishra's Factory.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

-2 factory, +2 basic island was a good call. As a 2 of with no loam or crop rotation factory was underpowered and inconsistent, and aside from the mirror didn't offer any good sb options. The deck plays a lot more smoothly, spell snare is a lot more active. However, I'm a little worried about the mirror if I should see it.

[islanderboi10]

-2 factory, +2 basic island was a good call. As a 2 of with no loam or crop rotation factory was underpowered and inconsistent, and aside from the mirror didn't offer any good sb options. The deck plays a lot more smoothly, spell snare is a lot more active. However, I'm a little worried about the mirror if I should see it.

The reason I say play Factory is because I feel that a lot of Juggernaughts and other such Shop Aggro creatures will be turning sideways.  Also, Fish seems to be jumping back into the metagame.  But, only time will tell. I am waiting to see how Chicago goes, and then from there, we can see what the meta is like.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

As far as factory goes, it seems to only improve already good match ups for you, shop and fish. I'm already packing 4x spell snare which is very good main for these match ups. Right now I've been working on the sb.

-1 oxidize
+1 smother
+3 chalice of the void.

I was considering trick bind in Sb for things like flash and long variants, but as far as those match ups goes, I've probably never won a single one due to trick bind. Spell snare is already good against flash, and the gush engine, and chalice locks down the rest of the combo variants available with the added bonus of hosing dreadnought pretty badly. Its really looking like this list navigates the meta game very nicely, I believe I've taken all the major meta game forces into account. However, it seems that running a whopping 18 lands might be a bit too much, I've been considering cutting either a waste or basic island to be able to run a full 4x of the disruption package and draw engine with the addition of skeletal scrying. Right now I'm leaning towards cutting the waste, leaving me at 2 waste effects, providing me with resistance to blood moon effects/waste lock and keeping the disruptive package open with the spell snare against the gush engine. This logically trades a 3 of becoming a 2 of while keeping my 4 of consistent. Has anyone tried this? Because part of me feels like I've just over thought this. Today I did some limited testing with some common archetypes, and a couple against a slaver variant (I've heard some rumors about this deck being good again). The deck seemed to be at 50/50 or better with these match ups.

Things noted:

A random snare on scroll can really knock some gas out of gush decks, and suddenly heavily favoring Dryad over tog doesn't seem like to hot of an idea for GAT players.

Dreadnought's got a pretty good game against you g1. Like I said chalice is hot in this match up g2 and g3. A lot of games seem to turn into an awkward war over your mana, your fetches are huge stifle targets, and you’ve got to be careful about them. Also 5 or 6 duress, huge pain.

Slaver. I only played 2 game sets against it, but I completely destroy it, I hope the deck really does see play.

[islanderboi10]

As far as factory goes, it seems to only improve already good match ups for you, shop and fish. I'm already packing 4x spell snare which is very good main for these match ups. Right now I've been working on the sb.

-1 oxidize
+1 smother
+3 chalice of the void.

I was considering trick bind in Sb for things like flash and long variants, but as far as those match ups goes, I've probably never won a single one due to trick bind. Spell snare is already good against flash, and the gush engine, and chalice locks down the rest of the combo variants available with the added bonus of hosing dreadnought pretty badly. Its really looking like this list navigates the meta game very nicely, I believe I've taken all the major meta game forces into account. However, it seems that running a whopping 18 lands might be a bit too much, I've been considering cutting either a waste or basic island to be able to run a full 4x of the disruption package and draw engine with the addition of skeletal scrying. Right now I'm leaning towards cutting the waste, leaving me at 2 waste effects, providing me with resistance to blood moon effects/waste lock and keeping the disruptive package open with the spell snare against the gush engine. This logically trades a 3 of becoming a 2 of while keeping my 4 of consistent. Has anyone tried this? Because part of me feels like I've just over thought this. Today I did some limited testing with some common archetypes, and a couple against a slaver variant (I've heard some rumors about this deck being good again). The deck seemed to be at 50/50 or better with these match ups.

Things noted:

A random snare on scroll can really knock some gas out of gush decks, and suddenly heavily favoring Dryad over tog doesn't seem like to hot of an idea for GAT players.

Dreadnought's got a pretty good game against you g1. Like I said chalice is hot in this match up g2 and g3. A lot of games seem to turn into an awkward war over your mana, your fetches are huge stifle targets, and you’ve got to be careful about them. Also 5 or 6 duress, huge pain.

Slaver. I only played 2 game sets against it, but I completely destroy it, I hope the deck really does see play.

Ok, so first of all, are you still running that list you posted earlier?

I believe that Oath still needs a draw engine.  But, Oath should destroy Slaver anyways, it is a good match up.  I'm not too worried about Dreadnaughts right now, I dont see many of them.

On the Chalice note, It is pretty good in the sideboard.  But I am not sure about the Trickbind.  It seems kind of random.  I believe that 4x Oxidize is pretty needed right now. 

How has the smother been for you?

You are right about the Factory, I just think it could definetly help out.  But I guess that it only improves your favorable matches.  I do like Spell Snare, but Im not sold on it being a 4 of.


May I see your list again? Or any changes to the list above?

I still think ICBM Oath is pretty strong right now...

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

@islanderboi10/everyone
Again, you can definitely see the list I'm currently testing:

the mana
4x fetch lands
3x tropical island
2x underground sea
2x island
1x strip
5x moxen
1x black lotus

Oath and friends
4x forbidden orchard
4x oath of druids
1x akroma, angel of wrath
1x razia
1x gaea's blessing

the x4's
4x duress
4x spell snare
4x mana drain
4x force of will
4x brainstorm
4x impulse

the x1's
1x skeletal scrying
1x ancestral recall
1x time walk
1x demonic tutor
1x vamp tutor
1x engineered explosives
1x echoing truth

sb:
2x SSS
4x leyline of the void
3x oxidize
1x smother
3x chalice of the void
2x pyroclasm


I'm was pretty unclear before about what I was running, as you can see, no trick bind. I had played ICBM of for a pretty long while until GAT hit the scene. Ever since it hasn't been a very good meta game call, I was unhappy with it and picked up empty gifts in its stead. I've actually had the opportunity to talk to Ben about it during a car ride, he hasn't been to impressed with Oath's results lately either. I've been working on this list independently for while and to be honest the impulse is really good. At one point I remember turn 3 looking at 3x impulse in my grave and thinking, " Wow, I just went through 12 cards of my library snagging a duress, FOW, and oath along the way and leaving behind a lot angel and land." As far as stump goes, I love the little guy, but creating a more consistent/ resilient mana base took priority, though I fear I may have over done it. If anyone's tested a similar mana base and has any comments, I'd like to hear from you.
Your wondering around spell snare as a 4 of. Obviously the list has 2 cards that net you a real card advantage. Running a lot of x4 makes your draw phase count, and obviously the deck plays out the same most of the time. A lot of times spell snare seems comparable to red blasts, and you can pitch it to FOW.