Oath of druids in the current meta.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Tidespout Oath will encounter measures against it like any other deck.  With the inclusion of a card like Brainfreeze being looked at, how do Oath players feel about VoidLines being brought in with an additional Brainfreeze by the opponent (say GAT) from the board, as well as facing MisDirections already main?

In my experience playing oath, I've basically laughed at every opponent to ever sb in leylines or tormods. Its a serious waste of slots to for a deck that wins with no graveyard interaction. You need to deal with the oath, or the creatures, not the yard we don't use most of the time. as for being in Combination with brainfreeze your wasting 4 slots on leylines and making it difficult for you to storm up to a relevant # before we oath, after we oath there's a decent chance your dead if your gat, even if you manage to brain freeze us while we're brainfreezing you, your draw phase comes first. Basically, I feel that leylines uses up enough slots to make your deck mediocre in whats basically a con roll catchup and brain freeze alone is not enough.

[Stormanimagus]

The best way to beat Oath IMO is simply to win before they do. I think my Grim Long list on the Superlong discussion form accomplishes this. It runs 3 MD Xantid swarm (1 more in the SB) and 3 MD Duress. You clear the way with one of those two cards on turn 1 and then go off in their face on turn 2 (ideally, of course). It doesn't hurt that my list also runs 3 Forbidden Orchard (might have to make it 4 soon). You can keep your opponent from oathing that way. It's kinda handy. Grim Long as an answer to Oath is not an argument I've been hearing and I think it should be discussed more at length. Thoughts?

[Arsenal]

The best way to beat Oath IMO is simply to win before they do. I think my Grim Long list on the Superlong discussion form accomplishes this. It runs 3 MD Xantid swarm (1 more in the SB) and 3 MD Duress. You clear the way with one of those two cards on turn 1 and then go off in their face on turn 2 (ideally, of course). It doesn't hurt that my list also runs 3 Forbidden Orchard (might have to make it 4 soon). You can keep your opponent from oathing that way. It's kinda handy. Grim Long as an answer to Oath is not an argument I've been hearing and I think it should be discussed more at length. Thoughts?

I think that we actually went over this last page; pure combo > Oath.  Grim Long is no different.  If combo can either (a.) combo out before we have an active Oath out, or (b.) can disrupt us long enough to setup the combo, then combo out, then yes, Oath will lose.  However, the same can said about other combo vs. _____ matchups too. 

[The Atog Lord]

I won ELD's tournament with Reflection's build of Tyrant Oath.
I played the same Maindeck that I ran at Waterbury.
The sideboard was:
3 REB
2 Extirpate
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Shattering Spree
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Spawning Pit
1 Bitter Ordeal (Never Cast it, never was good)
1 Pyroclasm
1 Pithing Needle

Demonic Attorney made Top Eight with a very similar maindeck and sideboard.

Thanks to Eric for the fun event. I had a very intense mirror with Jeremiah in the top four. Harlequen, it was nice to meet you.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I won ELD's tournament with Reflection's build of Tyrant Oath.
I played the same Maindeck that I ran at Waterbury.
The sideboard was:
3 REB
2 Extirpate
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Shattering Spree
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Spawning Pit
1 Bitter Ordeal (Never Cast it, never was good)
1 Pyroclasm
1 Pithing Needle

Demonic Attorney made Top Eight with a very similar maindeck and sideboard.

Thanks to Eric for the fun event. I had a very intense mirror with Jeremiah in the top four. Harlequen, it was nice to meet you.

hey I've got a couple questions:
In games where you sb in TOA do you ever find your self extremely Dependant on fastbond/lotus for  ? I haven't tested it yet, and was just wondering what your thoughts on it were.
Have you done any testing vs decks like ssgoyf and naughts, things that run a lot of stifle? If so, do you have any data/ comments on the match ups? I just feel like my numbers should be better here.

Also, definitely tested bitter ordeal as well, no good for me either.

[The Atog Lord]

Hi Hex,

Bitter Ordeal was an idea that I hadn't gotten the chance to test. It was neat in theory, but never worked out in practice.

The Tendrils plan does require either Fastbond or Lotus to work well. I tested a set of Dark Rituals in the sideboard to transform into a full Gush Storm deck, but they just clogged up my hand without doing enough to make them worthwhile. It is worth noting, however, that the Tendrils plan really doesn't need Yawgmoth's Will to work. You can get to ten Storm without it easily enough.

As for StifleNaut decks. I haven't tested against them at all. They tend to live in the Mid West and not show up much in New England. That said, I could certainly see Stifle being a way to buy a turn or two. Stifle can, in theory, stop a Storm kill; but, getting to ten spells often involves a Thoughtseize being cast. Stifle can also stop Oath from triggering, buying the deck a single turn.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Hey, thanks for the reply!
   Midwest, that’d be my meta. I have to deal with stifle a lot, that’s why I like tinker vus in most of my builds. As rock suggested, show and tell has been a great solution to my problems. Show and tells lends its self to playing more tyrant oriented builds though. I’ve tested your build and it’s really solid and fun to play, amazing in the gat match up. But there are still a few Meta issues. As of now I’m playing a the configuration I’ve listed below. I do miss the ability to regrowth a mox after oathing for the win, but scroll can fetch brain freeze. I also cut slash of insight, it was amazing when finding vus ftw, but scroll retrieves brainfreeze about as consistently and clogs the hand less. My build plays less mana than most, but still leaves the gush engine functional. Ponder isn’t as strong with the low mana count, I was unhappy to see it a lot of the time running more than 2, but obviously better with 2 tidspout than impulse, opposed to tidespout vus. 2x drain gives you a solid game vs 9 sphere and gives you the hard cast play.


Oath and friends
4oath of druids
4 forbidden orchard
2 tidespout tyrant
1 krosan reclamation

Mana
4 fetch
2 underground sea
2 tropical island
2 island
5 mox
1 black lotus

Draw
4 gush
4 brainstorm
2 ponder

ansewers
1 EE
1 wipe away
1 brain freeze

control
4 force of will
2 mana drain
3 duress


Broken
1 fastbond
1 yawgmoth’s will
1 ancestral recall
1 time walk

tutors
3 merchant scroll
1 demonic tutor
1 vamp tutor
1 mystical tutor
1 imperial seal


SB
1 r/d
1 show and tell
3 oxidize
1 SSS
1 fire/ice
2 thoughtsieze
2 spawning pit
2 pithing needle
1 tinker
1 vus

I did a little bit of testing today, a few with games with in TOA in place of SSS. As expected with 2x drain and less mana its not as good as it could be.
the gush oath mirror seems slightly favorable game one simply because it runs more tutor, control, and can drain gush for hard cast. Game two as very very player skill oriented. 

[The Atog Lord]

Hex,

In our testing, twelve Islands were needed to support four Gushes and Fastbond. With fewer Islands, we found ourselves unable to cast Gush consistently. Your testing may, of course, lead to different results.

Then there's Ponder. I love that card in this deck. Need Oath? Ponder helps you find that. Need Orchard? Ponder. Need help fixing your mana, setting up your combo, or just looking for a control spell? Ponder is great. I really don't think that cutting a Ponder could be correct. It just helps the deck dig for whatever it needs.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I've gotten the, "your island count can not support gush" comment for just about every list I've ever posted with the card. But like I mentioned our testing we have never had a problem with it, even in match ups traditionally unfavorable to gush engine. As far as not running 4x ponder, I've personally just preferred the control of having more tutors, it just pans out more often. Ponder is definitely a good spell, no argument there, I just wouldn't go so far as to say 4 is necessary, and certainly won't be optimal for every oath configuration.

[unicoerner]

I wanted to build a more control orientated Oath build. ( I played an UB control before with a transformal Oath side, because i had really no chance vs aggro, but beating control and Combo very easy)

Oath and friends
4oath of druids
4 forbidden orchard
2 tidespout tyrant
1 krosan reclamation

Mana
5 fetch
3 underground sea
3 tropical island
2 island
5 mox
1 black lotus
1 Lotus peta

Draw
2 Deep analysis
4 brainstorm
1Impuls

answers

1 brain freeze

control
4 force of will
4 mana drain
3 duress

Broken
2 Extirpate
1 yawgmoth’s will
1 ancestral recall
1 time walk
1 Gifts Ungiven

tutors
1 demonic tutor
1 vamp tutor
1 mystical tutor
1 Regrowth

I am not sure about this List, i have the feeling i play not enough draw, but perhaps we can discuss this List a bit.
Thx

[Nehptis]

With all the recent Flash hype I'm expecting it to return in greater numbers at the next tourney I attend.  (Kinda like Sand People after they are easily frightened).  So, I wanted to explore the Oath SB and see if it should be updated.  The most popular Tyrant Oath build runs Volcanics and Red in its board:

SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Spawning Pit / Goblin Bombardment
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 1 Tendrils Of Agony
SB: 3 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Blazing Archon

Is this sufficient to battle a field of medium to heavy Flash, medium GAT, medium Shop and then normal distribution of popular metagame decks like Ich, Oath, Storm, etc.?  Also, for those of us who don't play Red the SB can look something like this:

SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Spawning Pit
SB: 3 Duress or 3 Thoughtseize (assuming MD is playing MisD's)
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 1 Tendrils Of Agony
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 2 Oxidize
SB: 1 Blazing Archon

Same question, as above, is this SB ready for Flash, GAT, Shop, etc. with an emphasis on Flash?

Both SBs are devoid of Platz because the Mogg Flash kill makes her irrelevant.  I'm of the mindset that Leyline of the Void still doesn't belong in Oath's SB.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Right now if i were to sb against flash I would go for extirpate on protean hulk in response to first trigger. crypt is good, but extirpate is more a target form more tutors, if you run them and uncounterable. Ichorid is hit pretty hard by targeting bridge befor their main phase. That leaves them with 4 narcomebas and 2 ichorids left in the deck. Not to mention very little library.

[unicoerner]

I tried to play a more control orientated Oath build(, but i got problems with my draw engine).
I am really interested in the interaction of Gush and the Orchards.
First we run fewer Islands than GAT or Storm Gush decks.
Second we will be 1-2 rounds slower quite often, because we have just 1 Islands in our starting 10 cards, which will kill us quite often in todays fast meta.

I really have not tested this build yet, but i played GAT and Oath before aswell as a Gush Storm Deck.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

@unicoerner
you play gush a little differently in this deck than most gush decks. your not trying to gush scroll chain often. You use it like tfk. Gush brainstorm is one of the coolest things you can do with this deck

[Nehptis]

I use Gush in 3 ways.

1) A draw engine as 100year described (Usually before you Oath)
2) As a Free Spell after Tyrant is in play to fuel the combo
3) Against Waste Effects to protect my "Islands"

[unicoerner]

With the relevant turn getting earlier and earlier, i would say turn 2 and 3 are often game deciding.
I don`t like that we will often have to wait till turn 3 to draw 2 cards, because we had an orchard in hand and dropped that before or even missed our 2nd island drops for some rounds.

[Webster]

With the relevant turn getting earlier and earlier, i would say turn 2 and 3 are often game deciding.
I don`t like that we will often have to wait till turn 3 to draw 2 cards, because we had an orchard in hand and dropped that before or even missed our 2nd island drops for some rounds.

In your previous posts you've brought up the point multiple times of playing a more control-orientated build of oath with mana drain and deep analysis, yet you criticize the use of the gush engine in oath citing that "I don't like that we will often have to wait till turn 3 to draw 2 cards". I agree with you on the idea of the relevant turn getting earlier, however, the gush engine is the cheapest draw engine in terms of mana cost and provides any deck using it a means to play the aggresive roll in a specific matchup with fastbond, gush, and merchant scroll. Gush plus brainstorm is actually ridiculous and almost feels like cheating.

[bronxie]

ok so the build looks solid, but does it beat combo and flash consistantly? and do we board Leylines?